Propose-a-Game / Request-a-Host Thread

[Brammi]

HI, So I'm not all that well known in the Smogon Mafia community. I've butted heads with many of you before over concepts of Mafia. (Biggest of which is that Smogon Mafia isn't really Mafia, but that can be left for another day.) That's not the point of this post though. I'm proposing a game.

Anyway, I have an extensive history as a forum mafia player. I have played mafia on five different sites including Smogon and have somewhere in the vicinity of about 50 Mafia games under my belt in various non chat based mafia forms. Most of which have been played with longer deadlines that you have here on Smogon.

What I am getting at is that I have had three experimental mafia games floating in my head for some time, one will soon be run on a dedicated mafia site but the two best ones don't really fit the rules or common mafia beliefs of the other sites I frequent. As such I am proposing that at least one of these games be run on here as an expert game. The first one is meant to be more easily accessible as it won't have nearly as much playing around with the ruleset as the second one will. I'd also rather host this one first to gain trust from the community before messing with your usual ruleset to make the second game.

The mafia will have a Pokemon theme. It will somewhat of a mix of standard bastard / experimental concepts and Upick game styles. If you are unfamiliar with any of these terms then let me know and I can explain them. This could be run as a standard game if i toned it down but then I would have to change everything as it needs either 29 or 35 people player lists. I have worked on the 29 player one to keep with the forum guidelines.

Proposed features of this game:

~ Multifaction
~ As well as a Town
~ Use of well researched game balancing techniques, some of which have been studied for years on dedicated mafia sites. This includes tried and tested concepts and equations as well as the use of balancing roles.
~ Therefore the most equal opportunity game with only a small chance of ending in kingmaker.
~ As far to the right side of the bastard/mountainous sliding scale as possible while retaining the key concepts and being fair.
~ Upick elements leading to better chances of roles you will enjoy.
~ Accessible and dark flavour for such a theme.
~ The addition of rare roles that are either fun, quirky or completely original (Not by me but roles that have been discussed as being interesting roles but have never been used due to constraints on other sites)
~ Night actions as well as latent powers to add more spice to the day phase.
~ Slightly longer phases to stop rushing. This will cause less time based mistakes and let room for more inteligent play, in turn leading to a more enjoyable game.

I hope for this game to be enjoyable. I'm not very good at working with co-mods but it would be useful to have a good flavour writer and more nessecary a set up reviewer not interested in playing. If people want to see such a gamme hosted you should show me your support. I hae discussed this briefly with a mod and I have been told that should the game show signs of working well I may well still be allowed to host this game without the usual Smogon mafia experience required for hosts of expert game.

 

[Blue_Tornado]

- If a PM is sent during a certain period of time during the day, the player gets more Pikmin (The reason why activity can be rewarding)

no no no no no no

if your proposition is something like "those who send it in at about this time est" it's not really a matter of activity but a matter of timezones. plus rl stuff may interfere at that exact time which isn't fair at all. i can think of 1001 problems with this really.

 

[khz]

HI, So I'm not all that well known in the Smogon Mafia community. I've butted heads with many of you before over concepts of Mafia. (Biggest of which is that Smogon Mafia isn't really Mafia, but that can be left for another day.) That's not the point of this post though. I'm proposing a game.

Anyway, I have an extensive history as a forum mafia player. I have played mafia on five different sites including Smogon and have somewhere in the vicinity of about 50 Mafia games under my belt in various non chat based mafia forms. Most of which have been played with longer deadlines that you have here on Smogon.

What I am getting at is that I have had three experimental mafia games floating in my head for some time, one will soon be run on a dedicated mafia site but the two best ones don't really fit the rules or common mafia beliefs of the other sites I frequent. As such I am proposing that at least one of these games be run on here as an expert game. The first one is meant to be more easily accessible as it won't have nearly as much playing around with the ruleset as the second one will. I'd also rather host this one first to gain trust from the community before messing with your usual ruleset to make the second game.

The mafia will have a Pokemon theme. It will somewhat of a mix of standard bastard / experimental concepts and Upick game styles. If you are unfamiliar with any of these terms then let me know and I can explain them. This could be run as a standard game if i toned it down but then I would have to change everything as it needs either 29 or 35 people player lists. I have worked on the 29 player one to keep with the forum guidelines.

Proposed features of this game:

~ Multifaction
~ As well as a Town
~ Use of well researched game balancing techniques, some of which have been studied for years on dedicated mafia sites. This includes tried and tested concepts and equations as well as the use of balancing roles.
~ Therefore the most equal opportunity game with only a small chance of ending in kingmaker.
~ As far to the right side of the bastard/mountainous sliding scale as possible while retaining the key concepts and being fair.
~ Upick elements leading to better chances of roles you will enjoy.
~ Accessible and dark flavour for such a theme.
~ The addition of rare roles that are either fun, quirky or completely original (Not by me but roles that have been discussed as being interesting roles but have never been used due to constraints on other sites)
~ Night actions as well as latent powers to add more spice to the day phase.
~ Slightly longer phases to stop rushing. This will cause less time based mistakes and let room for more inteligent play, in turn leading to a more enjoyable game.

I hope for this game to be enjoyable. I'm not very good at working with co-mods but it would be useful to have a good flavour writer and more nessecary a set up reviewer not interested in playing. If people want to see such a gamme hosted you should show me your support. I hae discussed this briefly with a mod and I have been told that should the game show signs of working well I may well still be allowed to host this game without the usual Smogon mafia experience required for hosts of expert game.

Considering how unbalanced Smogon mafia games usually are I think this should at least be given a chance. Its about time someone tried to seriously balance these games.

 

[Spiffy]

no no no no no no

if your proposition is something like "those who send it in at about this time est" it's not really a matter of activity but a matter of timezones. plus rl stuff may interfere at that exact time which isn't fair at all. i can think of 1001 problems with this really.

Yes you're right. That's why I was thinking of making it like a 24 hour period or something. But I see your point and I'm still not sure if I'm gonna put this in yet.

 

[smashlloyd20]

Since the idea of a Disney Mafia was already taken, I thought for a few days and came up with the idea for an Advance Wars mafia. It would utilize a few experimental concepts that I have floating around, but once again nothing too complex. I'd be looking for a cohost who has played any of the games. PM me if you're interested.

EDIT: Cohost found!

 

[Engineer Pikachu]

The mafia will have a Pokemon theme. It will somewhat of a mix of standard bastard / experimental concepts and Upick game styles. If you are unfamiliar with any of these terms then let me know and I can explain them. This could be run as a standard game if i toned it down but then I would have to change everything as it needs either 29 or 35 people player lists. I have worked on the 29 player one to keep with the forum guidelines.

Proposed features of this game:

~ Multifaction
~ As well as a Town
~ Use of well researched game balancing techniques, some of which have been studied for years on dedicated mafia sites. This includes tried and tested concepts and equations as well as the use of balancing roles.
~ Therefore the most equal opportunity game with only a small chance of ending in kingmaker.
~ As far to the right side of the bastard/mountainous sliding scale as possible while retaining the key concepts and being fair.
~ Upick elements leading to better chances of roles you will enjoy.
~ Accessible and dark flavour for such a theme.
~ The addition of rare roles that are either fun, quirky or completely original (Not by me but roles that have been discussed as being interesting roles but have never been used due to constraints on other sites)
~ Night actions as well as latent powers to add more spice to the day phase.
~ Slightly longer phases to stop rushing. This will cause less time based mistakes and let room for more inteligent play, in turn leading to a more enjoyable game.

I know I've talked to you about this for a couple minutes, but I'm willing to help with this.

 

[Brammi]

It's changed a bit. There are now no items. Less bastard roles and it's a standard. In addition. It is already sent in. If you don't want to play I would appreciate a co-host though.

Oh and Title is

The Second Invasion of Sliph

crosses fingers and hopes it gets approved.

 

[Alpha Werewolf]

Hey, I know I'm new to the forum and all, but here's a game I'm planning:

Desktop Dungeons mafia

It's a rather vannila, Standard game: 20 players, one mafia, one town. Power roles will be relatively generic. The idea is to go "back to basics". There will be one twist, however, that should make it harder for the mafia to win... But I'd rather keep that one secret, as well as the specifics of the setup.

The rules, however, will be quite different from what I've seen on here so far. Here:

Hide

1. You may not talk about the game, with anyone apart for the host, outside the game thread, unless it is is specified in your role PM.

2. The above rule includes dead players. Dead people can't talk. One simple 'bah' post in the thread will suffice, if you wish, but it may not conatin any game-relevant information.

3. All players in this game have a vote. To vote for a player to be lynched, post like this: Vote: Alpha Werewolf. Please remember to bold this, or it may not be counted. Before you place another vote, please also remember to post unvote, also bolded, or your new vote may not count.

4. When a player is killed in any way, the host will post his name, rolename and faction, and only those, at the appropriate scene (for example: A player who is lynched will have his information posted at the lynch scene).

5. A day will end when a majority of players have voted to lynch one player. That player's alignment and role will then be revealed, and he will be removed from the game. The game will progress to night.

6. Players may also end the day by voting Vote: No Lynch. If a majority vote in this way, then the day will end without a lynch.

7. At night, no-one may post in the thread. Any roles that allow players to talk at night, please do so in the location specified in your role PM.

8. Nights will generally last 72 hours. If you have any actions to perform at night, please PM these to me before night is over or they may not be included. You can also PM me if you do not want to perform an action.

9. DO NOT EDIT OR DELETE YOUR POSTS. This is your only warning. Players who do so will be modkilled regardless of alignment or reasons.

10. DO NOT QUOTE ANY PART OF ANY GAME-RELATED PMS (or screesnshot them, etc.). This is your only warning. Players who do so will be modkilled regardless of alignment or reasons. If you must refer to it. paraphrase using your own words.

11. I expect a decent level of activity from all players, at the very least a post every two or three days.

12. The town win condition is: you win when all anti-town forces are defeated.

13. If your Role PM contains information that contradicts the rules in-thread, the Role PM wins.

14. If you have any problems, questions, or anything, please feel free to drop me a PM and I will do my best to help.

The changes in short:
-No deadline for the day phase (although if a day stagnates, I may place one myself).
-No talking with anybody about the game out of the thread unless you are specifically allowed to do so in your PM, and then only in the fasion your PM specifies.
-No quoting, screenshotting etc. of anything from game-related PMs. Paraphrasing is ok (for example, when claiming).

Why all these changes? Well, seeing the game you play here, I thought that you may want to try something new. PM me if you're interested - these are rather big changes from the norm, after all.

 

[theangryscientist]

that just sounds like a normal NOC game

 

[Brammi]

As I've said various times in various places, I'd love to see a traditional mafia run on this site. However you guys are in love with your outside communication and power roles. Add that there is little to no knowledge of basic scum hunting techniques among the mafia players here and I can very easily see the game falling apart to disinterest and inactivity. Who, out of the people who have conditioned themselves to Smogon mafia, is seriously going to want to spend up to two three weeks a day on a mafia game when it will be putting at you at P2 for ages.

IF it was run as a game that doesn't count to priority for the people that are willing to put the effort in to play a game like this then it is a great idea, one that could add a new element to the CM sub-forum and help people grow as all round mafia players.

 

[UncleSam]

As I've said various times in various places, I'd love to see a traditional mafia run on this site. However you guys are in love with your outside communication and power roles. Add that there is little to no knowledge of basic scum hunting techniques among the mafia players here and I can very easily see the game falling apart to disinterest and inactivity. Who, out of the people who have conditioned themselves to Smogon mafia, is seriously going to want to spend up to two three weeks a day on a mafia game when it will be putting at you at P2 for ages.

IF it was run as a game that doesn't count to priority for the people that are willing to put the effort in to play a game like this then it is a great idea, one that could add a new element to the CM sub-forum and help people grow as all round mafia players.

Ya um how would a game that takes 2-3 weeks for a single cycle not fall apart?

The problem isn't that people would be P2 forever, it's that a game just can't be interesting if it isn't updated consistently.

Also, the general consensus around here seems to be that NOC games aren't as interesting for the majority of players as one that allows outside communication. If you feel otherwise you are welcome to host an NOC game, rather than bash the players here as being bad at "basic scum hunting" and needing to grow as "all-around mafia players", whatever that means.

Also you are probably better off posting in the subforum about stuff like this rather than in this thread.

Now then, my "game idea" isn't so much looking for a cohost as I am trying to gauge interest: I plan on hosting Metroid Prime 2 mafia in the expert tier at some point, and the game is completely designed at the time I post this. That being said, I realize that there have been a large number of Metroid-themed games recently, and I am going to wait to start it until most people are willing to put up with that flavor again. As such, I request as many people as possible to talk to me on IRC or PM me on the forums regarding whether or not I should start the game as soon as I can (I.E. after the current expert game ends) or if I should wait a few more months. Basically I am trying to gauge general discontent with the flavor. Thanks to anyone who gives input on this!

 

[Quagsires]

I don't think anyone objects to it happening, but the fact that a lot of people see is that none of those characteristics are as out of the ordinary as both of you claim. Troll NOC and Peace NOC are very similar games, Peace NOC with its spy role and intentional lack of flavor in PMs, while Troll for its lack of formal deadlines and it being more flexible in its format. I think many of us would play a game like that if there was no priority, even though there a quite a few people here who do not like NOC games.

@US, those styles of games are somewhat common and don't fall apart because the don't require as big of a time commitment, and usually there's enough activity to keep it going.

 

[Brammi]

@ US: Where I come from 2 week deadlines are the norm. I've also played infinate deadlines before as well. The reaosn that is incomprehensible for most Smogon players is that you are not used to tradition scumhunting. Trust me in a NOC with very few PRs you will NEED all of that time. I have found myself in games that have had 2 week deadlines where we have been rushing to get lynches happening.

Also random note. Town will never win a NOC game on this site unless the deadlines are increased. Just letting people know so that if they want to run a NOC they should make it no town multifaction. Unless mafia is exceedingly stupid of course.

Remember that without PRs town has to scumhunt. And that is a completely different set of skills you would have to learn. I'm in no insinuating you are bad players. Comparing the proposed game to Smogon mafia is like comparing apples to oranges. They are completely different games. By bad at scumhunting I mean would you be able to sit down with no information and in a handful of days with everyone talking be able to pick out who is scum? You probably couldn't, but that is only because you would have never had experience in the matter.

I'm trying to be insulting or anything.

 

[ck49]

Having played on mafia scum I can agree with ILL 100%, but you have to appreciate both styles. I play both and enjoy them, each in their own way.

 

[vonFiedler]

You probably couldn't, but that is only because you would have never had experience in the matter.

No, we've learned to do within 48 hours.

 

[Blue_Tornado]

I don't think having to play a game with two weeks worth of day is a problem-- we simply won't reach that, because we're already used to agreeing on a certain target after a fair few hours. It will take many new games, players, standards and hell, even dedication to get near that length.

edit: what von said only more lengthy

 

[Brammi]

No, we've learned to do within 48 hours.

They are non comprable. You have PRs. These games have about <20% PRs.

 

[vonFiedler]

You think we don't scum hunt even with power roles? The fact of the matter is that we'd run out of things to talk about after 72 hours at most. And that figure is generous. What exactly do you say in a 2 week Turn 0 on Mafia Scum that isn't said in 48 hours here? I'm sorry, but I've only seen you play beginner games here. I don't think you know what you are talking about at all.

 

[Brammi]

The scumhunting is completely different.

Have you even played or at the very least read many of the type of games we are talking about here. In your average game town are wishing they had more time to talk.

 

[Alpha Werewolf]

Uh, could you guys take this to the mafia subforum?

I don't want to go all elitist on you. I just thought you guys might want to try something different.

 

[Blue_Tornado]

I'm interested, I think what people are trying to say is that the game may run a bit differently from what you'd expect.

 

[vonFiedler]

The scumhunting is completely different.

Have you even played or at the very least read many of the type of games we are talking about here. In your average game town are wishing they had more time to talk.

I've rarely heard town say that they wish they had more time to talk in the games here. Because again, we say everything there is to say within 48 hours. Fuck, on Smogon the political arguments rarely have anything useful in them after 48 hours, how long can you possibly banter about being a vanilliger?

The best players on Smogon know all the signs that someone is mafia and how to avoid making them when mafia. You came in here telling us that we couldn't possibly play your games and know how to scumhunt.

By bad at scumhunting I mean would you be able to sit down with no information and in a handful of days with everyone talking be able to pick out who is scum?

This logic is fucking stupid. If people at mafia scum take days to scumhunt and we take hours, then I suspect that you don't know how to scumhunt at our pace. Having two weeks would make it so much easier (by your own admission), but so much more dull.

 

[Brammi]

Did I ever say I'm good at Smogon mafia? No, on the contrary I'm not very good. I can acknowledge that.

The games are completely different. You can not equate the two. From what I have seen on smogon most of your working things out is looking at claims and information from actions or lackthereof and such. And working stuff out from that. MS has none of that. There are usually plenty of vanilla townies which makes massclaims useless until lategame. In addition there are very few power roles, if any, that can give useful information. Usually just one weak one like a tracker and a doc.

Town would need that time. As much as I'd love to see a traditional game run on smogon it would never work unless everyone played very differently to what they normally do. Which is why such a game will probably never run. I can definantly see why most people would find the game dull but I personally (Which is why I play on other sites) and people who go to other sites to play don't we find it enjoyable.

You're trying to discredit something that has no bearing on you whatsoever.

As for the best players know what to look for etc. Of course they do. Hence why they are good players. But you need a completely different skillset when playing NOC with few power roles.

As for the point on what you would talk about. When you have no information then you kinda need to talk to get information. Play gambits, work out motives, take apart posts word by word looking for where people have unwittingly given away thier alignment.

I've said it already and I'll say it again. It's like comparing apples and oranges.

 

[vonFiedler]

Play gambits, work out motives, take apart posts word by word looking for where people have unwittingly given away thier alignment.

We do this. We don't do it "because we have no other info", we do it because it's basic scumhunting and comparing mafia basics to the added information we have on smogon mafia, these are not apples and oranges. Without the basics, you suck regardless of added info. You are telling us we suck when you haven't even played an expert game.

 

[Brammi]

I never said or insinuated that people on here suck.

Go read a couple of stock standard games on another site., then come back here and say that they are not vastly different.