Revisions to the Threat List

[AJC]

Removals:

Rhyperior: like everyone else said its just way too slow to be effective normally poses a threat when on a TR team or as a offensive physcial wall but other than that its just way too slow with its weaknesses and soild rock letting us down in how much it reduces SE damage doesn't help it

Raikou: while still a potent pokemon the amount of set up it needs just doesn't work in this metagame

Jolteon: just can't pose a offensive threat outside of being a link in a BP chain and if you have raikou covered you have jolt covered too

Tauros: Weezing isn't used enough really anymore to warrent Zen headbutt and with all the steels flying about to stop threats like garchomp make it even harder to work with

Slaking: while i'm hesitant to remove just simply because you HAVE to get it right vs slaking or you are almost sure to lose a pokemon the free turn of set up to your foe alone is alone potentally gamebreaking as well has getting raped by sandstream and various field hazards due to not having leftovers

Electvire: like rhypeior this thing was way too overhyped while it does have good stats it doesn't have anything really good to back it up with and its still rather slow before a speed boost no one hardly flings electric moves at elec weaks without a thought anymore making luring almost impossable to do anymore also no boosting moves outside of meditate mean that with its meger BP of its standard physcial moves it can't really hurt any thing thats a good wall

Additions:

Yanmega: Without Blissey for a special wall The tinted lens version will hurt anything badly that isn't 4x resistant to its attacks and the protect speed booster will lol at offensive teams that rely on scarfed revenge killing for countering potental threats while bug/flying is a bad stab combo the stuff they hit in the current metagame is awesome with bug buzz and air slash coming off a 116 base special attack

Mamoswine: Stabbed EQ off 130 base attack is always awesome and with stabbed ice you get a type combo only resisted by bronzong and (lol) Surkit
while its ice stab is limited to avalance ice fang and ice shard its sturdy enough to use avalance and is fast enough to counter most of the non floating steels in the game and it can use ice shard off that same awesome attack to quickly off faster feinds like garchomp also being immune to both damage causing hail and sandstorm is cool

Azumarill: Seriously physical water stab is one of the best in the game and this monster has 436 attack right off the bat to run eather waterfall or aqua tail off of while it is hampered by move combo legality issues regardless of what it runs it will put a dent into something most of the time and unlike most attackers its very sturdy with 100/80/80 defenses allowing you to run sing and get away with a miss on something like T-bolt starmie
most of the normal physcial walls just can handle it because they are just hit really hard by its powerful stab or weak to it only suicune can relyable wall it and thats only if its not double edging the only thing IMO that is keeping it from being broken is the move combo issues and base 50 speed

Gallade: seriously this pokemon can wreck you in so many ways its not funny it can simply beat the shit out of you make you feel bad with status or even do both at the same time and shadow sneak lets it get the jump on ghosts and psychics trying to shadow ball it
attack options like leaf blade X-scissor night slash close combat elemental punchs and support options like wish reflect light screen make this pokemon capable of being a powerful attack a great attack capable support pokemon or annoying status platform best of all its fighting typing makes it take a neutral hit from pursuit unlike its feminie looking counterpart gardivoir a truly great pokemon and annoying to be up against if your slower than it

Floatzel: Taunt and BP alone is awesome add bulk up and 115 base speed good physcial water stab and you get something really potent since your able to BP to more deadler pokemon sould you find yourself against something you can't beat.
like azumarill this pokemon is a good physcal attacker because good physcal water walls are hard to come by in OU and it gets good coverage too

 

[DeLorean]

I dunno, Jolteon can be quite potent with Sub and a Petaya Berry.

Potent it may be, but It lacks the awesome movepool to own with.

 

[IggyBot]

I am not sure about Yanmega and Scizor, though, since they both have trouble getting around Blisskarm (I would think?). Scizor can be WWed out at any time and Yangema isn't doing anything to "the other" if it manages to Sleep something. This is kind of theorymon or whatever, and I am honestly not trying to be a hypocrite, but I don't see what has changed. If you don't have Blissey/Lax, a lot of stuff can and will hurt you, so I don't see why that makes Yanmega special. I'm letting people like Obi speak for me on that though, so as not to appear a hypocrite

Anyone running Yanmega with Tinted Lense will hit Skarmory for neutral damage, since the power of it's NFE attacks are now doubled. Bug Buzz or Air Slash will proceed to at least 2HKO Skarmory (I'm not sure exactly how much damage, I won't have IRC access again until tomarrow morning) Speed Boost Yanmega won't hurt Skarmory that much, but can do around 40% with HP Ice IIRC correctly. Also, to what you said about Yanmega being "special" I know what you mean, why is Yanmega so much more threatening than other special attackers? It's both of Yanmega's abilitys. Speed Boost allows Yanmega to get faster every turn. Essentially after 2 turns, Yanmega is going to outspeed anything, so the threat of something faster like Gengar, Garchomp, or even Deoxys-E coming in and revenge killing it is minimal. If the user decides to run Tinted Lense, you can throw the whole idea of relying on resistances to switch in and shove it where the sun doesn't shine. Tinted Lense makes Yanmega hit so much harder. It's less about prediction, and more about "What do I have left that can take a 135 BP Bug Buzz from over 530 SpAtk?" That's what sets Yanmega apart from other special sweepers in D/P.

I also think that Gallade deserves a mention on the list. After experiencing a few CB and Scarf versions first hand, it hits HARD. Ice Punch, Close Combat, Psycho Cut, X-Scissor, Night Slash, even Thunder Punch if you're that scared of Gyarados switching in. And don't forget about Gallades solid SpDef stat either. Not many things are OHKOing Gallade. In fact, I'm still nervous every time I go to Shadow Ball Gallade with Gengar, since I'm never exactly sure how much SpDef my opponent is running. Gallade is a solid threat that should be added to the list in place of Medicham.

 

[sa17dk]

I only have one thing to add right now because I'm really tired. I'll edit my post later with further stuff.

I think Raikou should be taken off the list for two main reasons:

1. I've found that it's impossible to have time for Raikou to set up at all anymore .

2. The presence of all the passive damage nowadays (mostly weather and toxic spikes) means that after he comes in the first time he's too weak from all the subbing he did or will have already been screwed from getting poisoned by toxic spikes.

I just find Raikou too slow of a sweeper and not as effective when all the other sweepers these days have a +2 move or are bulky enough to take hits.

 

[Amelia]

Floatzel: Taunt and BP alone is awesome add bulk up and 115 base speed good physcial water stab and you get something really potent since your able to BP to more deadler pokemon sould you find yourself against something you can't beat.
like azumarill this pokemon is a good physcal attacker because good physcal water walls are hard to come by in OU and it gets good coverage too

I'm just gonna talk about floatzel because i've used it a lot, and it sweeps a lot of teams who just don't know what to do against it.

Frankly, in the current D/P, people hardly pack a bulky water this days, and when they do, it's Swampert. CB Adamant Floatzel with Rain Dance support actually 2HKO's almost every wall with Waterfall. To make things worse, it's speed is already incredibly high, such that it outspeeds everything with Swift Swim. Only Water and Grass types has a slight chance to outstall it until the rain stops. (Vaporeon is the number one counter because of Water Absorb).

All these are with rain dance support, with exception of Hippo.

252 Atk CB Adamant Floatzel's Waterfall against 252/156 Impish Skarmory = 51.20% - 60.48%

252 Atk CB Adamant Floatzel's Waterfall against 252/8 Relaxed Bronzong = 66.27% - 77.81%

252 Atk CB Adamant Floatzel's Waterfall against 252/112 Bold Cresselia = 44.82% - 52.93% (3HKOed, and Rain Dance means Cresselia's Moonlight won't work that well.)

252 Atk CB Adamant Floatzel's Waterfall against 252/252 Bold Blissey = 71.01% - 83.47%

252 Atk CB Adamant Floatzel's Waterfall against 252/252 Impish Hippowdon = 57.62% - 67.86% (With Sandstorm)

252 Atk CB Adamant Floatzel's Waterfall against 252/96 Relaxed Forretress = 50.56% - 59.32%

252 Atk CB Adamant Floatzel's Waterfall against 240/76 Impish Jirachi = 59.10% - 69.58%

252 Atk CB Adamant Floatzel's Waterfall against 252/252 Bold Weezing = 53.89% - 63.17%

252 Atk CB Adamant Floatzel's Waterfall against 4/252 Bold Wobbuffet = 53.83% - 63.22% (With a Flinch, he actually escapes the Counter)

252 Atk CB Adamant Floatzel's Waterfall against 240/216 Relaxed Swampert = 55.86% - 65.59%

There you go. However, take note that Water and Grass Types (Tangrowth, Suicune etc) wall it, but if you don't have one, you really are going to get sweeped, and there's nothing you can do about it. The Waterfall Flinch always work in time.

 

[RaikouLover]

CB Floatzel is a beast in the rain, but hes just rarely used.

I only have one thing to add right now because I'm really tired. I'll edit my post later with further stuff.

I think Raikou should be taken off the list for two main reasons:

1. I've found that it's impossible to have time for Raikou to set up at all anymore .

2. The presence of all the passive damage nowadays (mostly weather and toxic spikes) means that after he comes in the first time he's too weak from all the subbing he did or will have already been screwed from getting poisoned by toxic spikes.

I just find Raikou too slow of a sweeper and not as effective when all the other sweepers these days have a +2 move or are bulky enough to take hits.

I find that Sub CM Raikou is kind of crap, and limiting his potential. His set up is too long. So yes, CM Raikou isn't as threatening. People just need to use him differently. I guess I'm the only one that uses a CM Life Orb Raikou (if you CM the switch, every ground pokemon in the game is OHKOed by the appropriate HP, save Hippo who takes ~95%). I also found specs raikou to be too much for people to handle. However, the threat list definately is based on sets with the most usage, so yea... remove him.

 

[sa17dk]

Yeah the thing with Raikou in general is that he's too fragile to have time to set up. Other fragile pokes such as Azelf at least have an immunity to a common move as well as an arguably better sweeping stat-up. CM Life Orb Raikou would be just as fragile as the subbing set because while you might lose less health by not subbing, youre still just as susceptible, if not more, to SS & Toxic Spikes. Not to mention that you also lose the ability to block status.

 

[Lou Cypher]

Tyranitar - Yup
Gyarados - Yup
Infernape - Yup
Azelf - Not as much as before, but needs to be considered.
Rhyperior - Not anymore. Got a Surfer/Grass Knotter thats faster as a slug? Then you'll be OK.
Electivire - You'll need to have at least 1 poke to wall it, but isn't the highest threat anymore.
Heracross - Yup
Salamence - Yup
Togekiss - Less as before
Gengar - Yup
Garchomp - F Yeah
Raikou - Can step down. Isn't the old one anymore.
Lucario - Yup
Tauros - Haven't seen those around at all anymore.
Starmie - Yup
Weavile - Yup
Dugtrio - Yup
Alakazam - See Azelf
PorygonZ - Yup
Medicham - Should be off.
Staraptor - Nah. Its not as bad as predicted.
Slowbro - Yup
Machamp - Yup
Jolteon - Yup
Aerodactyl - Less. It doesn't do enough
Snorlax - Yup
Zapdos - Yup, but see Raikou somewhat.
Blissey - Yup
Suicune - Less but can still be on.
Sceptile - Same as Suicune
Breloom - Yup
Slaking - Nah, the game is too fast for him now.
Tangrowth - Yup
Ninjask - Somewhat
Metagross - Yup
Heatran - Yup
Celebi - Yup
Jirachi - Yup

From that you can see what I'd remove. Mainly Slaking, Staraptor, Tauros, Raikou, Rhyperior and somewhat Togekiss can go off.

On need to go:

Gallade. As noted before, this dude can wreck apart unprepared teams like no business. It is more versatile as Medicham, which is its main selling point.
Dragonite. Less seen as the other Dragons, but has a LOT of sweeping potentional. Borderline for this list.
Kingdra. He's creeping up that list for a reason.
Tentacruel. If you can't cope with it, say goodbye to the match.
Scizor. He's pretty high on the weighted usage list for a reason. Same reason as Kingdra.
Mamoswine. He's just a beast.
Yanmega. Awesome buggy.

Just my two cents.

 

[Ouro]

Jolteon can sweep too people, even with a support set. Because he spends most of the match subbing and baton passing out, I've managed a few sweeps at the end once the field is clear of ground types. If your opponents are down around 50-60%, and you have no ground left, Jolteon is going to sweep you! 319 STABed Thunderbolts are nothing to laugh at, and psuedo-bolt beam for coverage.

What about when Swampert comes in? What are you going to do then? Or when an Electivire comes?

Anyone running Yanmega with Tinted Lense will hit Skarmory for neutral damage, since the power of it's NFE attacks are now doubled. Bug Buzz or Air Slash will proceed to at least 2HKO Skarmory (I'm not sure exactly how much damage, I won't have IRC access again until tomarrow morning) Speed Boost Yanmega won't hurt Skarmory that much, but can do around 40% with HP Ice IIRC correctly. Also, to what you said about Yanmega being "special" I know what you mean, why is Yanmega so much more threatening than other special attackers? It's both of Yanmega's abilitys. Speed Boost allows Yanmega to get faster every turn. Essentially after 2 turns, Yanmega is going to outspeed anything, so the threat of something faster like Gengar, Garchomp, or even Deoxys-E coming in and revenge killing it is minimal. If the user decides to run Tinted Lense, you can throw the whole idea of relying on resistances to switch in and shove it where the sun doesn't shine. Tinted Lense makes Yanmega hit so much harder. It's less about prediction, and more about "What do I have left that can take a 135 BP Bug Buzz from over 530 SpAtk?" That's what sets Yanmega apart from other special sweepers in D/P.

I also think that Gallade deserves a mention on the list. After experiencing a few CB and Scarf versions first hand, it hits HARD. Ice Punch, Close Combat, Psycho Cut, X-Scissor, Night Slash, even Thunder Punch if you're that scared of Gyarados switching in. And don't forget about Gallades solid SpDef stat either. Not many things are OHKOing Gallade. In fact, I'm still nervous every time I go to Shadow Ball Gallade with Gengar, since I'm never exactly sure how much SpDef my opponent is running. Gallade is a solid threat that should be added to the list in place of Medicham.

You make a good point on the Yanmega case. I would just like to add that generally a Yanmega not using Speed Boost is not likely to get Phazed or have its item Knock Off by the likes of Hariyama (Air Slash), Tentacruel (HP Ground), or Gliscor (HP Ice), making it more of a viable sweeper.

 

[Jolt99]

Note that I'm almost exclusively seen battling on shoddy's official server

Tyranitar - Taking t-tar off the list could be viable IMO. It's usage is dropping fast, I never see it anymore. It seems to me that it's been outclassed as a BST600 attacker by garchomp, and as a sandstreamer by hippowdon.

Gyarados - I don't see gyara that much either. No doubt it should stay. Resists its fair share of types, dances, intimidates, gets waterfall STAB...

Lucario - I'm still learning how to play lucario effectively, and I recently switched to a special attacking variant (LO, aura sphere, vacuum wave, dark pulse, dragon pulse.)
IMO Luke is a monster when played well, it has 3 priority moves, SD, STAB close combat and aura sphere, crunch, pursuit, dragon pulse, ice punch, (?) decent typing and stats and sandstorm immune for endrevving.

PorygonZ - Amazing lategame sweeper. The ability to setup in one turn with NP, then be able to OHKO bliss with hyper beam while still having 2 moveslots free for a good attacking combination (type coverage) is nothing to sniff at. Recover kinda makes it the new zam, only it's slower and cuter.

Mamoswine - I think that mamo usage is going to soar sometime soon, people are starting to notice just how dangerous this monstrosity is. Ice fang > avalanche, and this thing will leave you with nightmares if you're unprepared. It's earthquake is tied second most powerful in the OU metagame with garchomp, outdone by rhyperior (base 140.) It's also the only ice type that's immune to sandstorm. Immunity to T-wave. I can't think of a more powerful physical ice type off the top of my head either. Ice shard gives it the ability to revenge kill/hunt dancing dragons. Abomasnow + snow cloak + brightpowder = new garchomp? Their stats are somewhat comparable (mainly hp attack and def) and they both get great double STAB.



Oh yeah, mamoswine also doesn't have a trunk.

 

[Ouro]

Note that I'm almost exclusively seen battling on shoddy's official server

Tyranitar - Taking t-tar off the list could be viable IMO. It's usage is dropping fast, I never see it anymore. It seems to me that it's been outclassed as a BST600 attacker by garchomp, and as a sandstreamer by hippowdon.

You battle exclusively on Shoddy and you make this outrageous suggestion! Neither Garchomp nor Hippowdown can claim the move pool Tyranitar does. He is VERY capable of attacking from both sides of the spectrum. You have to be insane to claim Tyranitar should be taken off. For fuck's sake man he is the only Pokemon up for uberization 3 generations in a row. The Sand Stream boost to his Special Defense insures he will be surviving tons of hits. Look at his Base 134 Attack and Base 95 Special Attack. Look at his defenses 100/110/100 do you know any Pokemon that isn't Uber with those Defenses? Exactly. I think that suggestion alone bans you from any further discussion.

Thunder Wave
Ice Beam
Thunderbolt
STAB'ed Dark Pulse
STAB'ed Stone Edge
Earthquake
STAB'ed Crunch
STAB'ed Pursuit
Focus Punch
Flamethrower
Fire Blast
Avalanche
Dragon Dance
Curse
Screech

Look at how vast his move pool is.

 

[Luphrous]

Jolt99, you think that a BST600 poke like Ttar needs to be taken off the list? That same Ttar that people in the past have tried to make Uber? That same Ttar that can rampage through teams with a CB? The same one that can break walls runnning the Boah set? The one that can even DD up and sweep? Everyone has to have some way of dealing with Ttar or he will walk all over your team..

 

[Gmax]

Really? TTar? Off the list? Have you ever used CBTar, Boah or VILTar? Have you ever tried hitting stuff with STAB Pursuit off 606 attack? 2HKOing most of the metagame? No, I still don't get your reasoning in saying that Chomp outclasses it as a sweeper. There are many kinds of sweepers you know. Chomp and TTar are 2 very different kinds of sweepers with very different counters.

 

[Jumpman16]

Yeah, Ike and Tina has a point about you Jolt99, I am not sure I want you posting in this thread if you are going to make the argument that the #1 pokemon besides Garchomp for banishment to uber isn't a threat.

gonna talk about floatzel

Trust me, if there's one pokemon I want to add it's my favorite DP pokemon this side of Lucario. I'm not sure if the Rain Dance with CB argument is the best though, since that's means it needs support outside itself to be "truly effective". I'm going to need a few more arguments for it (with none against) before I can add it.

Jolteon can sweep too people, even with a support set. Because he spends most of the match subbing and baton passing out, I've managed a few sweeps at the end once the field is clear of ground types. If your opponents are down around 50-60%, and you have no ground left, Jolteon is going to sweep you! 319 STABed Thunderbolts are nothing to laugh at, and psuedo-bolt beam for coverage.

The only reason I added Jolteon, if you (and others sounding off on it) will remember from my announcement, is the fact that its fast Sub Passing is what makes it a threat. It's almost more threatening than Ninjask in that regard (who is also really only on there because of Sub and Speed passing), because Skarmory can't phaze it. So, I reiterate, Jolteon's sweeping "prowess" isn't the reason it's on the threat list, it's the threat it poses with an extremely fast Sub and BP.

 

[RaikouLover]

I agree, I was just mentioning that Jolteon can actually hit things as well, as people underestimate it's ability to do damage.

 

[CLegacyM]

OK, first I am going to list all the pokemon on the original threat list and colour the ones that I think should be leaving. I am also going to give a slight explanation as to why I find each of the remaining pokemon a threat.

Current Threat List

Tyranitar - I think this titan speaks for itself, but with its vast movepool, sandstorm and stats, there's very few pokemon more threatening.

Gyarados - It's such a beastly pokemon that Starmie is pretty much a staple, or at least some water type with HP Electric. Always worth taking into consideration.

Infernape - Very difficult to deal with because of its ability to attack from both sides of the spectrum very hard, and so damn fast. Life orb was made for it.

Azelf - Gotta be careful about this guy. With explosion, u-turn and its multitude of offensive special attacks, it can not only sweep your team but it can set up the sweep by taking out your walls.

Rhyperior - Although I find it to be very strong, it's just not used a lot, nor is it used effectively enough to be a threat.

Electivire - Again, with its ability to hit so many pokemon for a super-effective hit and easily sweep lategame with a motor-drive it's hard to not take Electivire into account.

Heracross - Possibly the most potent choice bander. It's the reason that Gliscor became some popular in the first place, and it pursuits.

Salamence - With the addition of Draco Meteor it has become even more threatening (if possible) than in Adv. It can do a lot and has the stats in just the right places to almost need revenge killers over walls.

Togekiss - If you are not prepared for this pokemon it will sweep your team. Nasty Plot and great defenses mean that its a very hard pokemon to kill, it even beats Blissey one on one (assuming no TWave, and even then its still likely to).

Gengar - Second most popular lead for a reason. With the ability to status, explode, outspeed most pokemon and deal significant damage to most pokemon (including walls with the addition of focus blast or by using focus punch) its difficult to handle Gengar.

Garchomp - The most popular (BAN ME PLEASE) today. It's rare that you'll see a super-successful team that doesn't include this one as it is just very hard to stop and sand veil makes it "near uber".

Raikou - A difficult pokemon to deal with if it can get set up, but there are just too many walls out there now that can stop it.

Lucario - Another pokemon that is fairly quick and can be physical or special so it's unpredictable and has respectable attacking stats. Swords dance and Calm mind also make it an ideal sweeping pokemon.

Tauros - With the need of metal pokemon for Garchomp, Tauros isn't even an afterthought since it is just outclassed by so many offensive pokemon.

Starmie - The number one Gyarados counter and rapid spinner; Starmie is always a good addition because it threatens those offensive pokemon like Infernape and Gyarados, but it also has the potential to threaten the Gengars and Dragons too with access to stab Psychic and Ice Beam.

Weavile - Very, vey fast and offensive threat. With access to swords dance it can sweep teams easily if you are caught off guard. Skarmory and Bronzong are the best way to go, but it has a few other counters in bulky waters and Gyarados. It has high attack and pursuit so its a great revenge killer.

Dugtrio - Dugtrio takes out enough common threats to be threatening itself. Great for revenge killing, its a hard pokemon to prepare for but it is definitely something worth taking into account because of its speed and Arena Trap.

Alakazam - It's just not used enough anymore to warrant being on the threatlist, but it can catch people offguard with its immense speed and sp.atk.

PorygonZ - Very scary if it can get a nasty plot off, but stuff like adaptability and CB can also be combined to produce nasty results.

Medicham - I think Medicham still belongson this list because of its titanic attack and the ability to hit absolutely everything at the very least neutral and being a common recipient of agilities, using life orb on it can mean a sweep of the entire opposing team. Not a pokemon to be taken lightly.

Staraptor - Another very underrated pokemon. If you don't have a flying resist on your team, or your flying resist happens to be weak against fighting, you are in big trouble against Staraptor. With its massive attack and respectable speed, it can put a dent in mostly anything because of its available movepool. It's also a great scout because of U-turn.

Slowbro - Because it is so bulky and has access to slack-off, calm-minding versions are hard to fend off and it makes a great counter to Gyarados. Depending on the attack choice it can prove to be very offensive and cover many pokemon.

Machamp - No Guard means Machamp is always a pain to switch into; Dynamic punch surely doing a number on anything that does. It's fairly bulky, has excellent attack and is great for taking status.

Jolteon - I'm going to disagree with Obi in saying that Jolteon can be covered by anything that covers Zapdos or Raikou. Great for baton passing subs and agility, its speed is it's #1 plus. As it needs almost no investment to outspeed things like Garchomp, Salamence, Gengar, Azelf, Weavile, etc. With such a great number of pokemon that it can outspeed something like Jolteon should always be taken into account because if your lose your precious "Blissey" it could mean game over.

Aerodactyl - Another pokemon that I think is still very threatening. With Life Orb and its multitude of physical attacks, its speed lets it become more threatening than things that would normally be prepare for with a similar attack pattern like Tyranitar. Again emphasis on the speed here as it can come in and kill a lot of pokemon simply because it is faster, and it doesn't need the lock that choice scarf gives other pokemon.

Snorlax - Although cursing variants aren't that popular anymore, Snorlax has a good movepool of physical attacks and the ability to tank a lot of hits with his massive HP and sp def. Self-destruct is almost a guaranteed KO due to stab and a decent attack. Always worth taking into account.

Zapdos - While it can do some of the things that Jolteon can, it is most notable this gen for walling Togekiss. Strong thunderbolt, good typing, decent speed and sp atk. It's a great all around pokemon and with the addition of roost its survivability has probably improved. Without a solid special wall it can be a handfull.

Blissey - Surprisingly you definitely need to have a blissey counter on your team. Something that can come in and kill it because if not you are going to have a long battle on your hands. It's definitely a tough pokemon to kill and with its ability to sleep, paralyze, wish pass or calm mind it can do a lot more than most people give it credit for.

Suicune - Another one of those pokemon that used to be unbeatable after 2 CMs, that has been hampered a bit this gen because of the offensive capabilities of some pokemon. That said, this is still definitely something that you should worry about when making a team because if you don't have something that can take it out and take a hit from it, you're probably going to lose as its a very sturdy pokemon that can stall with the best and, with a couple CMs, bang with the best too.

Sceptile - Having almost vanished into obscurity there isn't much to think about with it. It deals a lot of damage with specs thanks to Leaf Storm but I don't think it warrants being on the threat list.

Breloom - Probably the most improved pokemon from Adv, if not its up there just behind Salamence and Gyarados. With poison heal this thing can make tons of substitutes without having to worry too much about where that health is going, and spore is always a move to be afraid of. Stab Focus Punch and seed Bomb make switching into this thing a pain and its massive attack doesn't help. Leech seed variants can also be tough to deal with.

Slaking - Although Slaking isn't used that often anymore, I think it's very hard to not consider it threatening. Since the only way to truly avoid getting run over by Slaking is by predicting properly. Although, it is kind of a double edge because after an attack its sort of set up bait for stuff like subchomp.

Tangrowth - Although it has been shown to make a good combination with Heatran, it's just outclassed completely by Celebi and while it can tank physical hit, almost anything special will leave you with one less pokemon.

Ninjask - Ugh. The most annoying baton passer ever, but definitely worth mentioning in the threat-list as it can surprise you with its attack stat and it is almost always setting up stronger pokemon. It's very difficult to guess what it is going to pass to, but you almost know for sure that it is going to pass to something.

Metagross - Massive attack, pretty good typing to be able to switch in. Great offensive movepool. Explosion. This thing can do a lot on the offensive side and it's not something to be trifled with. 405 attack and a base 100 power stab move is always something to be afraid of and with the chance of an atk+, it can take out the pokemon that come in to wall it. This guy does not fuck around.

Heatran - Great defensive typing and trait. He has a great special attack and can explode on the things that thought they could wall it. It has many options in Life Orb, Choice Scarf, Leftovers (for sleep talk or w/e) and Choice Specs. It's definitely something to think about when making a team.

Celebi - The Legendary (BAN ME PLEASE) pokemon. Celebi is just an all-around tank. It has the ability to CM which is always difficult to deal with since you can't stop it with Blissey. It brings leech seed, twave, psychic and grass-knot to the table as well as the potential HP Ice. It can baton pass, too, so there are many things to be worried about when taking Celebi into account.

Jirachi - Another Legendary pokemon that is pretty tankish. With its all around good stats and its ability to do many different things, Jirachi is a toughie. It can CM, Wish or Sub which allows it to beat the likes of Blissey and Snorlax (non-eq versions), it can Body Slam and Zen Headbutt to abuse Serene Grace, it can U-turn now for some reason and it is very good at tanking hits.

Additions to the Threat List

Mamoswine - In my opinion it is the #1 most threatening pokemon when combined with something like Magnezone when Life Orb is thrown on it. Such a hard pokemon to switch into and it ist just so powerful. Also, don't be fooled by its appearance, it is pretty fast too and 394 attack with Stab Ice/Ground is a big problem for a lot of pokemon.

Yanmega - With speed boost, hypnosis and Stab Bug/Flying (with the ability to use Hidden power very effectively in ice and ground, too) Yanmega is a very, very threatening pokemon. It soon outspeeds things that could come in and revenge kill it and puts other opposing pokemon to sleep. Really the only solid "counter" to this pokemon would Blissey since even Snorlax, once asleep, has a hard time taking Bug Buzzes and with the chance of Special Def. down it can tear through even your sturdiest walls. It can't take a hit, though, and stealth rock really mucks it up. So it's difficult to use but has a great payoff.

Gallade - Hypnosis the switch and use Swords Dance and pound away. Unless you are facing something extremely strong you are going to get at least one kill out of this pokemon and one guaranteed kill is always a very threatening prospect. It has slightly less speed than heracross but more special defense and the same attack so it can do a similar job without the stab bug attack. It does however hit just as hard and with Ice Punch as an option Gliscor has a harder time walling it. So we're looking at a pokemon that I would consider to be at least as threatening if not moreso than Heracross because of its ability to take out the most common fighting wall with ease (outspeed and icepunch). It has problems with Cresselia but if you are packing Night Slash on the Swords Dance version it's a 2hko. So the only thing this beastie really has to worry about is a revenge kill or getting outpredicted.

Dragonite - Might even be better at abusing Life Orb than Salamence. Choice Scarf Garchomp is enough of a terror, so imagine a +1 or even a +2 Outrage with life orb attatched. Not fun. Once you've got 2 DDs (and if paired with Magnezone to get rid of stuff like Skarmory, Bronzong and Metagross that will ruin your day) sweeping becomes pretty easy and it can accomplish this in a way that Garchomp and Salamence cannot. It's even sturdier than the aforementioned two (except Garchomp has more HP) and has more attack than Garchomp. Although the speed seems like a handicap, after 1 DD it can be really scary if you aren't packing something like Weavile or Mamoswine, and I think it still survives a non-CB Ice Shard (and Yache berry is always an option).

WILL EDIT MORE LATER, I AM A BIT TIRED.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Deletions:
Shoddy usage statistics back my claims up, but I'll post little snippets of why usage has decreased/increased and why it is no longer a threat.

Pokemon (Overall usage in January)
Rhyperior (55th) - We greatly overestimated this Pokemon. Usage declined almost immediately, and in the vast majority of cases if a team can counter Tyranitar and Garchomp, it can counter Rhyperior.
Raikou (62nd) - Usage declined due to tremendous Blissey usage and most players are opting out for the quicker setup power of nasty plot.
Tauros (108th) - Normal cbers are inadvertently walled by steel types intended to take Garchomp outrages
Staraptor (56th) - ^
Alakazam (51st) - Grail, due to the excess of of scarfers it goes down easily. i guess you could make a case for scarfzam being able to deal damage to a team, but people would much rather opt for scarfgar due to better resistances and hypnosis
Medicham (76th)
Aerodactyl (52nd)
Sceptile (74th) - I'm not 100% sure why these last 3 have dropped so much in usage. Medicham has that huge attack that reaches 720 with a cb slapped on and has ice punch to deal with Gliscor, the most common cb fighter counter. Aerodactyl can make for a reasonably good revenge killer and Sceptile is a subseeder with amazing speed that also has the ability to run specs or even swords dance sets off of reasonable sp. attack and attack stats. But even though these pokemon are usable, there's no point preparing for a pokemon you're not going to run into.
Slaking (127th) - normal type cber spiel

Wow, I was going to add pretty much that list to the deletions. I'm going to give a big +1 to that list. Shoddy usage, and the fact that if you're prepared for other BIGGER threats you've got these guys covered, means they don't need to be on the list.


I'm not sure on additions. Where I'm at on the ladder I don't see much past the existing threat list I'd be concerned about.

 

[Cynthia]

I think it should be clearly decided whether Pokemon on the threat list are going to be only offensive, or are defensive pokemon that could theoretically sweep a team. Blissey is the obvious case here, usually she does not run a CM set and thus isn't really dangerous offensively, but she can take a lot of hits, CM up, and sweep. If we are adding Pokemon like Blissey whose primary goal is not offense, Cresselia should definitely be considered . But if we start including all strong defensively oriented Pokemon, then the threat list essentially becomes the OU tier list.

 

[Bran]

Azumarill: Seriously physical water stab is one of the best in the game and this monster has 436 attack right off the bat to run eather waterfall or aqua tail off of while it is hampered by move combo legality issues regardless of what it runs it will put a dent into something most of the time and unlike most attackers its very sturdy with 100/80/80 defenses allowing you to run sing and get away with a miss on something like T-bolt starmie
most of the normal physcial walls just can handle it because they are just hit really hard by its powerful stab or weak to it only suicune can relyable wall it and thats only if its not double edging the only thing IMO that is keeping it from being broken is the move combo issues and base 50 speed

This caught my attention! Not many pokemon gained a huge increase in overall usuage as much as Azumarril has this generation. It has raw power with average defenses and above average HP, which is excellent for a pokemon with its massive 436 attack. It can have a powerful substitute/focus punch combo, which its slow speed helps execute this combination well (or the decent fighting move in brick break); Emerald move tutor Ice Punch and FR/LG tutor Body Slam for much more coverage and paralysis support, Belly Drum if you feel lucky, or Aqua Jet. Mamoswine is popular with him having a maximum 393 attack with a stabbed ice shard, but Azumarril's Aqua Jet can hit more targets for neutral damage, and it's attack is 43 points higher than Mamoswine!

I think he's a border-line threat, like he's a border-line tier pokemon right now. Azumarril should see more usuage than it does, and I think it could be in the discussion as a threatening pokemon, but I think the move combo legality issues is what causes it from being amazing.

 

[Darkflagrance]

It might be, however, that the reason why so many once threatening pokemon are no longer threats is because countering them is already so integral to the current metagame that they are no longer effective. If they are removed, while veteran players remember them many others will potentially forget them, giving them a new opening into the netagame.
If the underlying purpose of removing pokemon from the threat list is to possibly open up the metagame for them in the future, then by all means remove them. However, for the sake of conservatism it would be probably be better to keep pokemon on the list - just because they are no longer perceived as threatening doesn't weaken them in any absolute or real way.

 

[Brawley]

I just don't see Floatzel going on the threat list. Raindance sucks with hail and sandstream all over, and it is really frail.

 

[Jumpman16]

It might be, however, that the reason why so many once threatening pokemon are no longer threats is because countering them is already so integral to the current metagame that they are no longer effective. If they are removed, while veteran players remember them many others will potentially forget them, giving them a new opening into the netagame.
If the underlying purpose of removing pokemon from the threat list is to possibly open up the metagame for them in the future, then by all means remove them. However, for the sake of conservatism it would be probably be better to keep pokemon on the list - just because they are no longer perceived as threatening doesn't weaken them in any absolute or real way.

I like where you head is but the problem with that is that I literally had no DP exposure to go on when I had to make the Threat List last March. This is the main reason things like Tauros and Aerodactyl are there—I had only my knowledge of their new movepools and the threat they respectively posed in Advance to go on. And things like Slowbro and Alakazam were hyped enough with what they gained from Advance that they seemed like "no-brainers".

I think that we can take your approach later on, given that this process is actually being conducted when there's actually a metagame, but I think we can safely remove a lot of the so-called threats "for good" for now, if you catch my drift.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Yanmega - It can't take a hit

Oh yes, it can. I've survived a Snorlax's Return after one Curse, and then proceeded to kill him (of course, I flinched it twice with Air Slash, but that's not the point).


Besides that, you've said what I think about the threat list, so I'll just keep watching this thread.

 

[Aeroblacktyl]

Notes

• Seeing as how this is suppose to be things that are threatening, I removed the defensive Pokemons from the original list. It was a major overhaul, deleting a whooping Blissey, Tangrowth, Jirachi and Celebi. (I realize they COULD do something offensively, but that's not normally their role.)
• These kind of subjects are touchy, so to keep it unbiased or illogical, if your only way of killing it is "revenge" killing, then you do NOT have it countered. (Unless you're carrying a Dugtrio.)
• There will be NO resuide damage involved. To be fair nothing can counter anything if we're playing "if he switches into 3 Spikes for 25% and Stealth Rock for 12% and Toxic Spikes for increasing Poison."
• Shoddy usage WILL BE taken into account. Oh no, let me prepare for #127 most used Pokemon Slaking.

How this will work

• First, I will list its most common sets, so none of that gimmick shit, because I'm pretty sure any Pokemon can counter any of it's counter with "well if I slap Hidden Power Psychic and Choice Specs onto Heracross..." Also these are not the exact sets, but just in general, because shit like PZ will have so many slashes so I'll just go with 'default' or whatever.
• Second, I will give my reasons why it could be a threat or is a threat.
• Third, I will give reasons why it couldn't be a threat you should prepare for. (Although this is mostly here for the Pokemons I want to remove. For the ones I want to keep, they're just me trying really hard to look for negatives.)
• Forth, I will then give my personal opinion and verdict on the matter.

Finally

• You will NOT argue with me. These are my personal fucking opinions. I don't tell you God doesn't exist and you were a sorry excuse for a waste of air and water, so you will not tell me if I'm right or wrong. This is for the general public to see how I, Aeroblacktyl, personally logically think about this. This is actually more so helpful for Jumpman16 and the other Pokemon staffers.
• Do not even so much as indirectly give stupid ass responses to what I say, hell don't even fucking comment on it. I really don't give a fuck after I post this, and chances are, subliminally be an ass and see what happens.
• P.S. I have a LOT of first hand experience of the sentence before this.

5. Tyranitar (42191161 points)
Sets:
Stone Edge/Earthquake/Crunch/Pursuit @ Choice Band
Substitute/Focus Punch/Ice Beam/Dark Pulse @ Leftovers
Dragon Dance/Earthquake/Crunch/Taunt @ Lum Berry
Fire Blast/Ice Beam/Stone Edge/Crunch @ Life Orb
Reasons For:
Is there honestly anything that can always switch to eat of the set? Obviously with it's vast movepool and ridiculous attacking Poke, you're going to pretty much 2HKO everything with any of the given sets. Swampert is pretty much the closest thing you can do to stop this, and even then you have to be running some Recovery of somekind to Swampert or it's getting fucked up too. It can already fuck you over on the basis of it's trait, so if you're running a mono-Focus Sash team without any immunities to it, yeah, good luck with that!
Reasons Against:
With weaknesses to Fighting, Water, Grass and Ground, those are some of the most common used moves in the game. It's speed is quite slow too so it'll be hardpressed to OHKO things that are faster than it just cause they might beat you to the punch. You could always just Dugtrio it too.
Verdict:
Definitely stays on threat list. There's no doubt about it. The sad part is that, even it's gimmick sets aren't considered gimmick cause you're most likely going to be cautious about it. I mean, would you even be -that- suprised to see a RestTalking Tanking Tyranitar or a Rock Polish Tyranitar or even a Scarftar?

4. Gyarados (43508444 points)
Sets:
Dragon Dance/Stone Edge/Waterfall/Taunt @ Leftovers
Dragon Dance/Earthquake/Ice Fang/Taunt @ Leftovers
Waterfall/Ice Fang/Earthquake/Stone Edge @ Choice Band
Reasons For:
Gyarados' great overall stats will pretty much make it a nuisane for you all the way around. With plenty of resistences and immunities with that nice trait to back it up, it's going to get a lot of opportunities to set up a Dragon Dance. Your 'counter' is a ScarfGengar? Yeah right, next time I'm just going to start Waterfalling.
Reasons Against:
It needs 2 DD to really be effective otherwise, despite it's great base 125 attack, it's still not hitting hard enough. It also suffers quite a bit from the whole moveset syndrome thing since, unlike Tyranitar, it'll always need a certain move or two, otherwise it's going to be generally walled.
Verdict:
It's great ability to get into a lot of switches and hitting with solid attacks is enough, considering most walls are probably not resisting Gyarados' attack. It's sturdy enough to where even 4x effective attacks won't always OHKO it, so you're going to have to be careful for it.

11. Infernape (33674972 points)
Sets:
Fire Blast/Grass Knot/Close Combat/Nasty Plot @ Life Orb
U-Turn/Close Combat/Fire Blast/Hidden Power Ice @ Choice Scarf
Close Combat/Fire Blast/Thunderpunch/Swords Dance @ Life Orb
Reasons For:
This is the perfect of example of stats in the right place. It also doesn't hurt that it has access to two base 120 attack that are STABed from BOTH attack stats (Close Combat/Focus Blast-Flare Blitz/Fire blast). Add that on to it's high speed, and great attack coverage, it'll pretty much 2HKO everything at the very most.
Reasons Against:
Infernape is quite frail and fairly has a hard time getting in despite some resistence. But even with those resistences, it's still taking a shitload, especially since it's best offense is normally weakening itself in someway as well as the whole Life Orb thing. Once again, always Dugtrio-able.
Verdict:
Sadly, the best way to normally kill this IS residue damage, and that alone probably isn't a good enough 'counter' to have. Although luckily we have Gyarados as the 4th most used Pokemon and Vaporeon hanging around 30 or so to help stop this as well. Final decision though is that you DO need a counter to this.

24. Azelf (17338185 points)
Sets:
Psychic/Grass Knot/Flamethrower/Nasty Plot @ Life Orb
Psychic/Hidden Power Ice/U-Turn/Explosion @ Choice Scarf
Psychic/Explosion/Grass Knot/Fire Blast @ Life Orb
Reasons For:
It's great speed and attack stats, as well as the ability to boost the more important one to it, makes it a threat hands down. With the fear of having it Explode on your "essential Special wall" could also be a problem as it'll open up for other special attackers on it's team.
Reasons Against:
If it does blow up, it's no longer a threat. The popularity of Weavile and Tyranitar could also hurt it, as well as Spiritomb being used quite heavily will be troublesome for Azelf to actually pull of a sweep. Those Pursuits are pretty damn annoying!
Verdict:
Just because it's fast, easy to use, and quite simply able to use effective attacks will just rape you. It stays on.

55. Rhyperior (7851602 points)
Sets:
Earthquake/Swords Dance/Megahorn/Stone Edge @ Life Orb
Substitute/Swords Dance/Stone Edge/Earthquake @ Leftovers
Earthquake/Megahorn/Stone Edge/Avalanche @ Choice Band
Reasons For:
Did you know that this can OHKO Skarmory after a Swords Dance? (Small chance, but nevertheless possible.) Also will definitely OHKO a Hippowdon if it uses Avalanche as Hippo EQs it? (SD+LO) Yeah it's not easy to be able to switch into its base 140 attack stat base 100 STABed attacks.
Reasons Against:
It's quite slow and has a ridiculous amount of weaknesses, among them 2 4x effectiveness to Grass and Water.
Verdict:
Its speed just hurts it too much. We could play "I'll BP speed to it game" but with that logic I can BP anything to anything. =/ Solid Rock made it seemed quite the monster when this list was first written 11 months ago, but it's not even that great. I'll pass on this.

31. Electivire (15479583 points)
Sets:
Thunderbolt/Ice Punch/Earthquake/Cross Chop @ Expert Belt
Thunderbolt/Hidden Power Ice/Cross Chop/Flamethrower @ Choice Specs
Meditate/Thunderpunch/Cross Chop/Ice Punch @ Life Orb
Reasons For:
Moderately fast. Quite strong. Suitable Special Attack. Useful trait. Amazing converate, HITS THIRTEEN TYPES SUPER EFFECTIVE!!!
Reasons Against:
Unfortunately what it DOESN'T hit Super Effective happens to be Swampert, Cresselia, Spiritomb and Weezing (phsyical). Those are perhaps 4 of the more common walls, and it doesn't help that it can't 2HKO some things that it's Super effective against either.
Verdict:
Seemed to be overhyped at first, but it just doesn't seem to fit with the metagame at the moment. Everyone is scared shitlist of Garchomp and Tyranitar, so in turn, Swampert and Hippowdon would seem ideal to stop them, and this isn't helping Electivire's case at all. It's just a mediocre Pokemon, and perhaps need some tending to, but by no means something you should look to counter for.

20. Heracross (23771390 points)
Sets:
Stone Edge/Megahorn/Close Combat/Night Slash @ Choice Scarf/Band
Rest/Sleep Talk/Close Combat/Megahorn @ Life Orb
Substitute/Megahorn/Stone Edge/Swords Dance @ Salac Berry
Megahorn/Swords Dance/Close Combat/Stone Edge @ Life Orb
Reasons For:
384 attack with 2 STABed base 120 attacks? Yeah you will definitely want a resist on your team as a simple Scarf can just simply tear through your team. Unlike Electivire, it's actually bulky enough to be able to not 2HKO certain things. It also helps that 2 of its weaknesses are -rarely- used attack types (Psychic/Flying).
Reasons Against:
Without Scarf, it's not fast enough to really affect you that much, and with Scarf, it's not as powerful. Gliscor is quite popular and absolutely shuts it out of commission.
Verdict:
This has to stay on the threat list. If you don't resist it's 2 main STAB moves, he will win. We can only be thankful they added Gliscor this generation otherwise Heracross would have a clean sweep tbh.

9. Salamence (35921700 points)
Sets:
Draco Meteor/Fire Blast/Hydro Pump/Dragon Pulse @ Choice Specs
Draco Meteor/Roost/Brick Break/Fire Blast @ Life Orb
Dragon Dance/Dragon Claw/Fire Blast/Earthquake @ Life Orb
Dragon Claw/Brick Break/Fire Blast/Stone Edge @ Choice Band
Reasons For:
369 Attack and 319 Special attack with a STAB resisted by ONE type, in which it carries an equally strong move to take care of. Combine with it's useful resistences and great one immunity, as well as Intimidate, this would had been uber if it was a pure Dragon, true story.
Reasons Against:
It's 4x weakness to..oh who am I kidding.
Verdict:
This stays. Don't be stupid.

21. Togekiss (20839853 points)
Sets:
Nasty Plot/Roost/Air Slash/Aura Sphere @ Leftovers
Roost/Air Slash/Thunder Wave/Aura Sphere @ Leftovers
Nasty Plot/Baton Pass/Wish/Air Slash @ Leftovers
Flamethrower/Tri Attack/Aura Sphere/Air Slash @ Choice Scarf/Specs
Reasons For:
Well, if you have a stall team, then the Nasty Plot one kills you. If you have an offensive team, the Thunder Wave one kills you. If you one in between of most, it's probably still going to kill you. Sturdy defenses and instant recovery removing weaknesses, yeah not going to fuck with. Not to mention, it can set up it's opponent and no Hazer/Puesdo-hazer will be too thrilled to be switching into this in the first place.
Reasons Against:
It's quite slow so it'll never actually pull off a whole sweep, unless you know, you have an even slower team, but then that's your fault anyways. Quite easily stopped by a Blissey isn't helpful.
Verdict:
Hell yes keep it on. It's going to annoy you, regardless of if it's flinching you, paralyzing you, passing onto team mates. Hell, the only way you're OHKOing this is with STAB Stone Edges for the most part (without boosting up duh.)

3. Gengar (54962681 points)
Sets:
Do I really have to?
Reasons For:
Do I really have to?
Reasons Against:
Do I really have to?
Verdict:
Do I really have to?

1. Garchomp (56752876 points)
Sets:
Read above..
Reasons For:
Read above.
Reasons Against:
Read above.
Verdict:
Read above.

62. Raikou (7060133 points)
Sets:
Calm Mind/Thunderbolt/Hidden Power/Substitute @ Leftovers
Reasons For:
Well, it's quite fast, and it's ability to Substitute+Calm Mind can help block a lot of shit as well as buy it more time to increase it's sweeping.
Reasons Against:
Unfortunately, that's about the only set it'll ever use. We could get into gimmicks, but remember, against the rules! So it's quite predictable and fairly easy to stop by Blissey.
Verdict:
Take it off the list. We have Blissey as the second most used Pokemon already, so there's a pretty great chance your team already counters it. Even if you're not whoring it, we're still in that stage where everyone is using the whole Tyranitar+Swampert+Garchomp trifecta, which will severely limit Raikou. Should you not use anything that can actually stop Raikou, chances are, your team is also not stopping a lot of many other special attackers, so might want to look that direction first.

6. Lucario (40025491 points)
Sets:
Aura Sphere/Dark Pulse/Vaccum Wave/Hidden Power Ice @ Choice Specs
Swords Dance/Close Combat/Extremespeed/Crunch @ Life Orb
Reasons For:
Honestly, it's hard enough stopping the first set alone, but if you're trying to prepare for that and end up facing the second set? Yeah you're just as fucked as far as this logic goes for any other Pokemon. Anyways, it's high attack stats and respectable speed, which is definitely made up by having a shitload of priority moves, you can barely even 'revenge kill' this if I was including that in this post.
Reasons Against:
I honestly can't think of a reason why you wouldn't want to prepare for this. Well, besides the fact that you probably can't if you wanted to, so might as well forget about it and hope that it'll never get in!
Verdict:
Yeah, it's already dangerous enough, but imagine when we're playing gimmicks where it's acceptable for Lucario to do too. Again, wouldn't be suprised if you saw a Reversal set, or a Scarf set now would you? Oh right, it could also Substitute+Calm Mind random shit, lol, the rich gets richer.

108. Tauros (2211368 points)
Sets:
Earthquake/Double-Edge/Zen Headbutt/Stone Edge @ Choice Band/Scarf
Reasons For:
Still one of the faster Pokemon around with plenty of base 100 moves and higher. Has pretty good coverage too with good attack stat.
Reason Against:
We're going to play a game. It's called, "If Tauros is on the threat list, so will every other mediocre Normal type". It's quite an interesting game.
Verdict:
Sorry, this isn't RBY.

18. Starmie (24646344 points)
Sets:
Surf/Thunderbolt/Rapid Spin/Recover @ Leftovers
Ice Beam/Grass Knot/Surf/Thunderbolt @ Choice Specs/Scarf
Recover/Surf/Ice Beam/Thunderbolt @ Life Orb
Reasons For:
It has good speed, and some of the best coverage around. The instant recovery will definitely make it annoy you for quite a bit as well as the good Special Attack.
Reasons Against:
First and foremost I'll always view this as a Rapid Spinner. It's just like the special version of Tauros on the offensive side. Sure it has good coverage, but then again, if you're having troubles with Starmie, you're also probably having troubles with Azelf, Raikou and any other Special type. You might want to redirect your attention towards the tutoring program for that.

13. Weavile (27302448 points)
Sets:
Brick Break/Ice Punch/Night Slash/Pursuit @ Choice Band/Scarf
Swords Dance/Brick Break/Ice Shard/Night Slash @ Life Orb
Pursuit/Ice Shard/Ice Punch/Brick Break @ Focus Sash
Reasons For:
It's a fast motherfucker that could make you regret wasting a spot on your team with Gengar, Azelf or Alakazam. It's ability to Ice Shard will also prevent Salamence Dragon Dance sweeps as well as Dragonite, and catch those annoyingly popular Garchomps!
Reasons Against:
It's poor base power for its STAB attacks make it's not so threatening. Not to mention that both of it's STAB is resisted by steel types. It's also quite frail and most of the priority moves out there are sure to hurt Weavile about as much as it'll hurt them, thanks to the crappy base powers.
Verdict:
This one is quite a toughy here. I want to involve it in the whole, if you're not prepared for this, you have other concerns. But since it's quite viable in stopping other things, I suppose it'll stay on the threat list just for the sake of it.

43. Dugtrio (11461124 points)
Sets:
Earthquake/Sucker Punch/Aerial Ace/Stone Edge @ Choice Band/Scarf
Reasons For:
Well, its trait?
Reasons Against:
Well, its stats?
Verdict:
Take it off the threat list. You can't actually counter a Dugtrio. You can switch in something after it kills something, but what good is that if it's just going to pick you off again? You're just better off setting up a sweep and therefore preventing it from killing you. And if you're using a stall team, this isn't an issue to worry about anyways. There just isn't anything you can actually do to stop Dugtrio from picking you off at any point.

51. Alakazam (8975818 points)
Sets:
Calm Mind/Psychic/Energy Ball/Focus Blast @ Lum Berry
Trick/Psychic/Focus Blast/Energy Ball @ Choice Specs/Scarf
Reasons For:
This WILL beat Blissey one on one. Do you really want to fuck with this? I mean, what really can stop this? Truth be told, everyone should be happy that the punches were turned phsyical, otherwise Alakazam would rape shit like no other.
Reasons Against:
It's just so frail and would die to a Quick Attack. Granted if that QA came from a burned CB Swellow it would hurt, but that's besides the point. Pursuit is also a big issue, but thats only provided you're randomly spamming Psychics on a Choice set or something.
Verdict:
While many people overlook this, it's quite a threat. Suprisingly I haven't seen many at all despite it's the FIFTY FIRST most used Pokemon. (Still not sure if that was sarcasm or suprised shock.) I'll just go with, if Weavile stays on, so does Alakazam.

30. Porygonz (15496627 points)
Sets:
Nasty Plot/Tri Attack/Ice Beam/Hidden Power Fighting @ Life Orb
Tri Attack/Ice Beam/Thunderbolt/Dark Pulse @ Choice Specs/Scarf
Return/Tri Attack/Dark Pulse/Hidden Power Fighting @ Life Orb
Reasons For:
Ridiculous traits to match with it's attacking Powers. Seriously has good Special Attack, obviously, but with that whole 2x with Normal things, that's just asking to get assraped. Don't forget it could also Agility to randomly fuck stuff up. Nasty Plot has to be feared, as you're pretty much going to let something die before you can do something about it.
Reasons Against:
This is like the Special version of Heracross. Ridiculous STAB, but only average speed. With high speed, it won't be as powerful, but if you want to abuse it's power, then it's going to be outsped by other Pokemons. It's not like PZ is the easiest thing to switch in anyways.
Verdict:
We're going to keep up this on here, as it can potentially (lol potentially), OHKO pretty much anything. Don't forget that good ol Hyper Beam thing either!

76. Medicham (4207002 points)
Sets:
Hi Jump Kick/Ice Punch/Psycho Cut/Stone Edge @ Choice Band/Scarf
Reasons For:
Have you seen this guy's attack? You slap a Choice item on it and it seems primed to just start a massacre.
Reasons Against:
Despite the whole Pure Power thing, slapping a Choice Scarf on it will still make it just above Dugtrio and under Garchomp in the attack+speed department. Not to mention that this is frail as hell, otherwise we could do some Heracross comparisons or something.
Verdict:
Keep it off. The way the metagame is swaying at the moment, the loss of it's ghost phsyical move hurts it a shit load (looking at you Cresselia!) This is simply a case of, there are better things that do the exact same thing it does out there.

56. Staraptor (7759341 points)
Sets:
Brave Bird/U-Turn/Close Combat/Frustration @ Choice Scarf/Band
Reasons For:
Base 100 speed, base 120 attack, STAB 120 attacks, base 120 attacks that hit things that resist it's STAB moves. Recovery to get rid of all the Life Orb and recoil damages and repeat. You can't even trap it. Useful trait with useful immunity.
Reasons Against:
Despite the whole being able to Close Combat steels, is still walled by most of them, or at least the ones without the weakness to it, such as Skarmory and Metagross. With the great amount of Dragons out there, those steels are being used more than ever, and that's not helping Staraptor's cause.
Verdict:
Staraptor is quite a dangerous Pokemon, but it's just going into the Tauros group. Maybe another metagame shift and Threat List revision it's getting back in, but right now with the whole Dragon movement, it's best to avoid the extra Ice weaks.

64. Slowbro (6707001 points)
Sets:
Calm Mind/Hidden Power Electric/Surf/Slack Off @ Leftovers
Reasons For:
It has a great amount of HP, but even better Defense, making it perhaps even better than Swampert at taking neutral hits, since it can recover off the damage. As for it's weaker defense, it can slowly up to help it, with steady STABs to be used with.
Reasons Against:
Well, it is slow as shit, and despite the whole upping Special Defense things, chances are they're still getting in a hard hit. Slowbro also just doesn't hit that hard to begin with, and with things like Celebi running around, it won't seem to be doing much.
Verdict:
I'll say keep it off, mostly because despite it's Calm Minding, it's more of a tank or something. I see so many more using either Trick Room or Thunder Wave, so like it's type twin Starmie, off the list you are.

37. Machamp (12633343 points)
Sets:
Bulk Up/Dynamicpunch/Ice Punch/Stone Edge @ Leftovers
Rest/Sleep Talk/Stone Edge/Dynamicpunch @ Life Orb
Dynamicpunch/Stone Edge/Bullet Punch/Ice Punch @ Choice Band/Scarf
Reasons For:
It's quite sturdy, with good stats all around, being able to take a few hits here and there and two godly traits. Also, unless you're running Oblivious, you already have only a 50% chance of attacking it after you switch into it. 100% confusion is always annoying and will only be more annoying as it's hitting you with 100% accurate attacks all over the place.
Reasons Against:
Well, nothing will ever miss against it, which is sure going to hurt it at taking hits. Being slow doesn't help it's case too much also.
Verdict:
Well, seeing as how you can't so much counter this, and it's not exactly fast to the point where it'll sweep your team, I'd just take it off the Threat List altogether.

40. Jolteon (12262503 points)
Sets:
Baton Pass/Thunderbolt/Hidden Power Ice/Substitute @ Petaya Berry
Reasons For:
Trying hard to see why but not really registering it.
Reasons Against:
I think the line above said it all...
Verdict:
It's good for getting off a Substitute here or there, and maybe even a berry stat up, but that's all it really does. It's not exactly putting fear into anyone's eyess. Add on to the fact that it's frail, that's not going to help it. If we put Jolteon on the list, then there could be an argument that any Baton Pass can be put on the list. (Stopping Skarmory from Roaring is NOT an argument, Floatzel used Taunt, Rapidash, Drifblim used Hypnosis and so on.)

52. Aerodactyl (8235779 points)
Sets:
Stone Edge/Earthquake/Ice Fang/Fire Fang @ Choice Band/Scarf
Reasons For:
High speed with good attack will always get you a spot on a team along the way.
Reasons Against:
Sadly, the most dangerous thing about Aerodactyl in Advance was Rock Slide's flinch. Is that worth giving up for the extra power in Stone Edge? Accuracy was never Aerodactyl's friend to begin with. It's also pretty frail with many common weaknesses, although does have the nice EQ immunity thing.
Verdict:
It just doesn't pack enough of a punch truth be told. That alone means it's off.

26. Snorlax (16519674 points)
Sets:
Curse/Crunch/Return/Rest @ Leftovers
Fire Blast/Selfdestruct/Return/Earthquake @ Life Orb
Rest/Body Slam/Fire Punch/Sleep Talk @ Leftovers
Reasons For:
Snorlax, a fixture for the first 3 generation, is still standing around for DP. It brings its forte with the whole Cursing thing in an attempt to do it's last Poke sweep as always.
Reasons Against:
This is just a bad metagame for Snorlax to be in. It used to be great at walling special attackers, but with the huge increase in power, it's not going to help it there. Don't even let me get started on the increase of phsyical attackers.
Verdict:
Off the list fatshit.

42. Zapdos (11718649 points)
Sets:
Thunderbolt/Baton Pass/Substitute/Roost @ Leftovers
Thunderbolt/Hidden Power Ice/Rest/Sleep Talk @ Leftovers
Reasons For:
It's still one of the best special attackers (stat wise) with a good STAB, and highly durable to repeatedly hit shit, and perhaps stall out it's wall in the process thanks to Pressure. It can easily also set Substitutes around to.
Reasons Against:
Sadly, it's still not going to do much to most things, and if you're resorting to stalling them out to beat them, yeah I don't think anyone really plans to stop that.
Verdict:
Just a glorified Jolteon....

28. Suicune (15610309 points)
Sets:
Surf/Calm Mind/Ice Beam/Rest @ Leftovers
Surf/Calm Mind/Sleep Talk/Rest @ Leftovers
Surf/Calm Mind/Hidden Power Electric/Rest @ Leftovers
Surf Calm Mind/Roar/Rest @ Leftovers
Reasons For:
With it's already incredibly high HP and Defenses, it's just going to keep boosting and slowly whiter away your own defenses with it's constant hitting.
Reasons Against:
It's extremely boring and takes a while for it to actually threaten you. After a CM or two, those Grass Knots and Bolts are still going hurt. The addition of Specs isn't helping it, and as always, CB hits will hurt it while Resting.
Verdict:
Once again, I view Suicune as more of a Tank that will eventually get there, but generally your team has to have enough offense to beat other stall teams, and Suicune is no different from one of those Pokes.

74. Sceptile (4427245 points)
Sets:
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Reasons For:
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Reasons Against:
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Verdict:
Why was this even here in the first place?

19. Breloom (24347863 points)
Sets:
Spore/Substitute/Focus Punch/Seed Bomb @ Toxic Orb
Spore/Substitute/Focus Punch/Leech Seed @ Toxic Orb
Spore/Swords Dance/Sky Uppercut/Stone Edge @ Toxic Orb
Reasons For:
With the 100% sleep, and the base 130 attack, this is going to hurt shit a lot. You add in the fact that you can't status it and it has the useful Rock+Ground resistence.
Reasons Against:
Despite it's accurate sleep move, it's still quite slow and fragile. Nearly and most Super Effective attacks will do it in.
Verdict:
Despite it's 100% sleep move, I don't think it's a threat after that. Sure you're going to take a huge hit, but provided you're not using Gyarados/Salamence/Celebi/Cresselia for example, Breloom isn't much of a threat anymore. Otherwise, we'll add every sleeper on this list, regardless of it's accuracy.

127. Slaking (1615201 points)
I'm seriously sick of all these normal types here.

47. Ninjask (10717702 points)
Sets:
Substitute/Aerial Ace/Baton Pass/Swords Dance @ Liechi Berry
Reasons For:
This is fastest thing used in the metagame (Deoxys-S is up for grabs) at the moment. With it's ability to set anything up for a sweep, you'll probably not going to be able to prepare what comes in. It has a few useful resistences and immunities here and there as well.
Reasons Against:
Ninjask is extremely frail and will more or less likely die to any hit. It also can't really do anything with its boost by itself.
Verdict:
Truth be told, Ninjask goes off the list. Things that can set up for others aren't so much of a threat. Think of it this way, you're either going to be breaking it's Substitute with hard hitting attacks, or going to your puesdo-hazer to push it out. If your team has neither, you might have other things to worry about.

8. Metagross (36549106 points)
Sets:
Agility/Earthquake/Meteor Mash/Thunderpunch @ Life Orb
Earthquake/Meteor Mash/Explosion/Ice Punch @ Choice Band/Scarf
Reasons For:
With the same attack as Salamence, obviously nothing to scoff at. You really cannot afford to stall out Metagross as it has a knack of getting lucky more so than others. It'll hit a shitload of things hard too with it's great coverage, constant threat of Explosion, and has great defenses to help it in the case of a misprediction.
Reasons Against:
We're still in that area where every other thing used is a sturdy Ground type who can annoy the shit out of Metagross. Fire moves are running amok at quite a high rate as well due to the high usage of steels.
Verdict:
You have to keep this in. This just hits too hard and too often for you to ignore it. I was even suprised by the amount of it's usage to be honest.

7. Heatran (37705031 points)
Sets:
Fire Blast/Hidden Power Ice/Earth Power/Dark Pulse @ Choice Scarf/Specs
Lava Plume/Earth Power/Rest/Sleep Talk @ Life Orb
Explosion/Lava Plume/Earth Power/Dragon Pulse @ Life Orb
Reasons For:
With it's high Special attack and great resistences (as any steel, once again), it has good defenses to back it up. Not to mention, Heatran is the only one thats resisting Dragon+Fire! And many other things as well.
Reasons Against:
Heatran is good, but seems to be overrated. It gets predictable after a while, and is in the same boat as, "if no Scarf, then not fast enough, if Scarf, then not strong enough."
Verdict:
He's going nowhere...

Removed...

• Rhyperior
• Electivire
• Raikou
• Tauros
• Starmie
• Dugtrio
• Medicham
• Staraptor
• Slowbro
• Jolteon
• Aerodactyl
• Snorlax
• Zapdos
• Suicune
• Sceptile
• Breloom
• Slaking
• Ninjask

My pinky hurts too fucking much to start a "who should be added list." Perhaps another day I'll make another post with who I think should be added, but definitely not today.

P.S. I purposefully made this post colorful and pretty to distract you incase I said something you don't like.
P.P.S. I forgot that I didn't care if you didn't like something I said.

 

[Hyra]

I just want to reiterate the Roserade point. It's Sceptile with a movepool, at least for the Specs Option (Sludge Bomb+Weather Ball Rock). And then Toxic Spikes is arguably much more threatening to a team than Leech Seed. And of course there is the fact that Roserade can sleep. It's not the standard sweeper which will beat you in one shot like most of these are, but it only takes one turn for it to cripple your non Flying/Poison/Steel defenders, aka Hippowdon and Bulky Waters. I feel that if Yanmega is being considered, Roserade should too.