SmashPass

Delta 2777 said:
I feel like this strategy is just so annoying that I'd rather just ban it without thinking about it. Sure I could modify my team to beat it, but why bother? I'm lazy.
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Now that is the exact sentiment that gets people so pissed off. Seriously, what wrong with using a phazer? Any phaser that is not weak (or better yet resists) water can come in on either passer and phaze them out. What's so hard about that?
 
jas61292 said:
Now that is the exact sentiment that gets people so pissed off. Seriously, what wrong with using a phazer? Any phaser that is not weak (or better yet resists) water can come in on either passer and phaze them out. What's so hard about that?
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I'm playing devil's advocate.
(although in a way I am half-serious)
 
jas61292 said:
Now that is the exact sentiment that gets people so pissed off. Seriously, what wrong with using a phazer? Any phaser that is not weak (or better yet resists) water can come in on either passer and phaze them out. What's so hard about that?
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Actually, I find a high percentage run similar teams with either a.) Magic Mirror Espeon or b.) like SDS suggested, Smeargle to put phazers to sleep.

And lastly, there really aren't as many phazers that can handle Gorebyss as you'd like me to believe. Most I've seen are a wasted moveslot on a team that is used solely for the purpose of handling smashpass. If you need to run an otherwise-unrelated to your team's goal Pokemon to handle a specific strategy, it seems as that point that the strategy is overcentralized and likely broken.
 
I'd wait and gather some data first before a ban is even mentioned. Phazers, like haze, roar, etc. and the like will be dusted off to counter smashpass eventually...
 
Ray Jay said:
Actually, I find a high percentage run similar teams with either a.) Magic Mirror Espeon or b.) like SDS suggested, Smeargle to put phazers to sleep.

And lastly, there really aren't as many phazers that can handle Gorebyss as you'd like me to believe. Most I've seen are a wasted moveslot on a team that is used solely for the purpose of handling smashpass. If you need to run an otherwise-unrelated to your team's goal Pokemon to handle a specific strategy, it seems as that point that the strategy is overcentralized and likely broken.
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By that logic, that means Azumarill's/Hitmontop's usage proves that Sand/TTar/Excadrill is broken, since Hitmontop/Azu are both pretty bad if you're not using them to "counter" Sand teams.

But back to the topic at hand.. What are some variations of sweepers that would work well with this? Basically any decently bulky mixed attacker?

@ Oglemi
Why would you use Surf over Scald?
 
I was just on the ladder for a while, and I pretty much confirmed that the Suicune RestTalk set is actually very viable in the tier while at the same time providing a very hard counter to the SmashPass strategy.

Here it is:

[SET]
name: RestTalk
move 1: Roar
move 2: Surf / Scald
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

I haven't tried out Trick Room yet either, but I'm sure it'll work just like I think it will.

So, is SmashPass broken? I think not. But I do think it is a big contender for top threat of UU.

EDIT: @above: Also, I use Surf because my team is centered around paralyzing stuff and getting Snorlax to sweep, so I can't have things burned.
 
Played with another variation of this (created my own a few months back), it's fairly easy to stop if you play right, the vulcrow, snorlax and Milotic (you can't tell me this ae not good i their own right) can phaze with whirwhind/dragon tail, i used espeon to prevent this and sub to remove the status possibility/dragon tail, hard to kill, but not impossible

PS: for the ones that worry about spore (use magic coat, awesome attack and the ability to bouce hazzard is awesome,, it's hilarious to sleep smeargle)
 
Stored Power Espeon is an even better receiver, its fucking strong and you can just pass to it if opponent switches into a phazer while you setup
 
Prankster Sableye beats it with Taunt.

Why in God's name you'd run Sableye otherwise, I dunno, but it beats it.
 
d2m said:
Prankster Sableye beats it with Taunt.

Why in God's name you'd run Sableye otherwise, I dunno, but it beats it.
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Anything with Taunt and base Speed above 52 can ruin it if you get it in on Uxie rather than waiting for Gorebyss or Huntail to show up.
 
i've faced so many teams like this already, but if you can get rid of uxie quickly, which is hard i agree, then this strategy isn't too terribly overpowered, but what are quick uxie counters for uu....
 
more like just stop gorebyss / huntail from setting up, uxie / azelf are probably gonna get at least one screen down whereas the passers only hit 223 (i think) speed so anything faster with taunt (i.e. LOTS OF SHIT) or a strong super-effective or something are just gonna wreck them.
 
SDS, I've been watching your games specifically to see how this seemingly broken strategy works against most other opponents and it's really not all that hot. Boosting/boost passing is a potent strategy in general this meta and most people are carrying phazers to stop these things as is. Suicune, Milotic, and Empoleon, just to name a few. Gorebyss and Huntail can't do anything to stop these guys because they don't have Taunt and can't KO before they get roared out. Also, if Uxie gets taunted early game, your team gets shut down right then and there. Mew can basically 6-0 this team too. There are way too many weaknesses in this combination that most half-decent teams can exploit.
 
The strategy is also pretty average in UU because the recipients are nowhere near as good as they are in OU (outside maybe kyurem). Gorepassing is badass in OU because you can pass to Garchomp, who is immune to twave, outspeeds the entire game at +2, 2hkos the entire game at +2 attack (outside zong in rain), and is bulky so can take hard-hitting priority from Scizor and Azumarill. I've actually seen the pass pulled off in UU more consistently than I have in OU, but the fact that it's still far from a guaranteed win (in fact I seem to have been seeing gorepassing teams in UU lose more often than win even after getting the pass off) I'd really hesitate to make it as big of a deal as you seem to be. At least for the time being.
 
Dp8292 said:
What about a Skuntank that carries punishment for Espeon and roar for everything else?
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But Skuntank has better things to do than countering Espeon. And Skuntank doesn't have a positive niche this gen, especially when it was NU last gen. Carrying an otherwise crappy mon just to beat SmashPass shows how broken it is.
 
Oglemi said:
Suicune RestTalk set is actually very viable in the tier while at the same time providing a very hard counter to the SmashPass strategy.
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Oh, so Suicune with bold/252 hp/no sp. def can survive +2 electric attacks on the special side? or the offensive side? What if Suicune can't OHKO the attacker?

'very hard counter'
There are no hard counters in pokemon. Except Wobbuffet vs Unown.
 
Taunt Mew would probably piss this team off. Defensive Mew in general is a good poke.
Interestingly enough he too can provide screens, though he can't Memento. He can Baton pass though...
 
Jahikoi said:
Oh, so Suicune with bold/252 hp/no sp. def can survive +2 electric attacks on the special side? or the offensive side? What if Suicune can't OHKO the attacker?

'very hard counter'
There are no hard counters in pokemon. Except Wobbuffet vs Unown.
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LOL wat

Suicune does in fact "hard counter" SDS's SmashPass team from executing its strategy the way it's supposed to. A +2 Gorebyss HP Electric/Grass doesn't OHKO 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune, and in the meantime Suicune just Roars it out, forcing the team to start from square one, which it can't if Uxie Mementoed itself. Yeah, Suicune isn't going to take on the whole team itself...

Yeah Suicune doesn't hard counter the metagame, I was saying hard counter the strategy from working.
 
I think this is definately broken. I'm using Taunt/Dualscreen/Explosion Azelf as a lead and then Gorebyss/Huntail with the recievers being Kyurem, Hitmonlee and Espeon. It's fantastic because Hitmonlee wrecks everything with +2 Reckless HJK and the only thing faster, Sawsbuck in the Sun, is OHKO'd by +2 Mach Punch. Kyurem needs no explanation, but I'm running chomple berry to beat Hitmontop and Shadow Ball in the last slot for a more reliable 2HKO on Cresselia. Espeon is there because if I supect a Roar I can just pass to it and force the Roarer out and then attempt a sweep of my only. Even without dual screens, gorebyss and huntail can setup on a suprising amount of stuff and baton pass away to a threatening sweeper.
 
Which is why it's a good idea to use two Screeners. Personally I use DS Taunt Azelf, to prevent other things from Taunting me. Also, Mix Sheer Force Nidoking is an amazing receiver. Just putting that out there.

That said, I have another 'hard counter' to SDS's team; stallbreaker Crobat. It has 130 Speed Taunt. gg.
 
Morm said:
Lee and I abused a similar Uxie in battle tower in 4th gen. Yawn + Memento is a REAL bitch, we got bellyzard up flawlessly every time (even when the computer did switch). In regular multi, yawn forces switches almost all the time and then they find themselves switching in on a memento or if they don't change, falling asleep. Either way, you're assured at least one turn to set up.
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u-turn spam/clear body, plus you waste dual screen turns in the OPs scenario. This does seem like a simple roar/whirlwind would stop it or a stockpile quagsire (lol) but I haven't playtested yet so I am not sure how specific a team would need to be in order to win against this.
 
Virizion said:
But back to the topic at hand.. What are some variations of sweepers that would work well with this? Basically any decently bulky mixed attacker?
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Either a very bulky attacker or something with high mixed coverage and speed which essentially makes the pass worthwhile.

Mamoswine, Nidoking, Kyurem, Tangrowth, Sawsbuck, Ludicolo, Kingdra, Arcanine, Ludicolo, Heracross, Charizard, Victini.

Its effectively game over once any of them receive the Smashpass.
 
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