I'm really just some random guy with opinions, but I do want to point out that this suspect wasn't all bad. I really loved how involved the top players were, since it feels like usually only a few outside of finch and ausma provide commentary. While I wish the first half could have been more civil, toward the latter half of the suspect, arguments were generally very strong, respectful, and convincing from both sides. Hopefully, the implementation of a qualified-only thread will encourage further debate among the tier's best minds in the future.
While this was probably the most hyped and contentious suspect after tera and gambit, I don't think it was as consequential. First, I do not think
was one of the main forces discouraging Zap-King-Lu type structures, at least not directly. These structures tended to fit
or
as win cons, which can switch into dd/mixed kyurem at least once and force it out, which may alone be enough given Lu's hazards. Further,
was a solid enough scout/pivot into special kyurem. especially with the adaptation of psychic noise for subtect. Its relation to Zap-King-Lu is more relevant when discussed in the context of Kyurem's role in preserving Gliscor. But for now, I don't think the viability of these structures will be too affected until/unless future tiering action occurs.
is almost certainly the main winner of this ban, but I think it's important to look past the type chart when discussing its relationship with Kyurem. First, Kyurem was not a Gliscor counter, and could not really come in without being crippled, as every Gliscor runs either Knock or Toxic nowadays. Gliscor's whole shtick is lasting the entire game, so a short term check doesn't really prevent Gliscor from executing its gameplan, at least in a vacuum. And it has also been discussed to death that Kyurem is not the only viable ice beamer, with options like
and
being arguably even more splashable and viable in the first place. However, what Kyurem
did do was:
1. Pressure the defensive backbones of Gliscor teams:
There is no win con that outlasts SD Gliscor (if it doesn't tera) long term, so the best option would be to beat your opponent before Gliscor inevitably beats you. Kyurem is uniquely impossible to counter, in particular thriving vs the balance teams Gliscor usually fits on. Gliscor gave Kyurem opportunities (even if not in the long term) to wreak havoc, and so by removing Kyurem from the equation, Gliscor teams get significantly more freedom in both the builder and in-game, e.g. maybe some will be dropping balloon tink for a less passive/chippable mon. Kyurem was arguably the biggest factor encouraging Gliscor to run max speed as well, so Gliscor may now have more flexibility in relation to EV spreads, though I think max speed is probably still the way to go.
2. Force Gliscor to tera
One of the best ways to beat SD Gliscor on non-offense teams is to force it to tera on your terms instead of your opponent's, and stack spikes. Yeah, Gliscor could switch out on Kyurem... but to who lol? Ideally, Gliscor only wants to tera if it can secure a sweep or irreparable damage to your defensive core. Given how difficult Kyurem was to switch into, it provided a stronger incentive for the Gliscor user to just expend tera as a way to minimise losses, as opposed to something weaker like deoxys.
Future tiering action
Moving forward, I would support no further pokemon bans as I believe the current metagame is very fun and diverse. However, I think it would be a little silly to not at least suspect test
if SD remains at its current level of potency, if only on principle. It's probably the most problematic mon in the tier right now, and is only getting better with the
ban. I would still oppose a ban on grounds that SD has a poor matchup into offense, forces balance styles to be more proactive instead of do nothing regen spam (which isn't an unhealthy impact at all), and does take time to get going. We still have
as probably be the best substitute for Kyurem's Ice Beam, and it's not at all a bad pokemon.
Before Gliscor, I believe a tera blast suspect and hopefully ban should come next, giving metagame shifts/adapations to
time to occur. It is not broken, but inherently unhealthy. Its very purpose is to allow Pokemon to access coverage they shouldn't in order to beat things they shouldn't, with no real counterplay except dodging the matchup or it being a relevant enough meta pick such that it should be reasonably prepared for (e.g. ground moth). It is different from tera itself as for example, at least you know tera will never give Iron Moth a move to hit Heatran with.
To people more receptive to value based arguments (which I disagree with but whatever):
Tera blast brings 0 value to the tier. There is no down side to its removal, unless you like lottery moth being able to beat things it shouldn't.
More importantly, it allows us to instantly free
(speed control, spinner) and at least retest
. Regardless of how you feel about the Volc ban, I think we can all agree that Volc's defensive profile is greatly missed, even with Kyurem banned. Volcarona:
1. Checks:
,
,
,
2. Discourages/Exploits:
(specifically wisp + draco over wisp + darts),
(non tera fire/lum variants),
(getting a kill means a free qd),
(lottery simulator), and special spam in general
Finally, I started the suspect pro-ban and was gradually convinced that Kyurem was not broken. However, it really was an annoyance in the builder more than anything else, so it leaving is not something that I'm too disappointed about. Still, it wouldn't be very fair to one of the most borderline mons we have ever seen to not at least retest it if tera blast is banned, especially if
is unbanned as well. Also would not be opposed to testing
as perhaps the final tiering action of this gen.