Sword & Shield Battle Mechanics Research

[BountyHunterStev]

Some questions about items:

If I used a multi target move (namely Rock Slide) and am holding blunder policy, do I have to miss one target or all targets for it to activate?

If I'm holding throat spray and use a sound move into protect, does it still activate? What if it fails (say, due to no target)?

Does utility umbrella just provide protection from sandstorm/hail damage, or does it also reduce damage from weather boosted attacks. If Eiscue holds a utility umbrella does ice face still regenerate? Similar question about swift swim and other weather abusers.

Multi target moves will activate blunder policy so long as one target is missed

Throat spray will only activate if the Sound based move hits the target. Failing and connecting into protect does not activate the item

Utility umbrella protects users from effects. In sandstorm and hail they will take the weather damage.

In the case of Rain, Which water type moves are boosted, the target will receive non-boosted damage thus retaining the original damage it does not affect move accuracy (Thunder and Hurricane) as far as I could tell. Using thunder in the rain with the umbrella seems go to 100% accuracy (Or I could be lucky, I'm still testing it.)

Unsure if this affects healing moves such as Synthesis or Solar beam (These moves get boosted in harsh sunlight). I don't have a pokemon to test this yet.

Unsure if this affects abilities like Eisue's. Other abilities like swift swim seem unaffected. My lvl 45 Ludicolo was faster then a lvl 60 Bisharp with the rain set up (Will test out Dry skin at some point)

 

[Ema Skye]

Does Throat Spray item activate after Kommo-o uses Clangorious Soul?

Extra SpA boost would be sweet.

 

[Beware I Live!!!]

Does Punk Rock double the effects of sound-based status moves?

Based on my calculations and trials using the same toxtricity and the exact same opponent while the toxtricity knew swift (60 base power special normal move) and round (60 base power special normal move but sound based), it's only an increase of 25% or 1.25. The range of values obtained were from 35.1-40.2 with an average of 37.7 while the boosted had a range of 44.3-50.1 with an average of 47.4. That's an average increase of 1.257

 

[ck49]

Someone asked this on Hoeen's stream:
Dynamax Golisopod's Emergency Exit still removes it from battle, and it comes back regular sized. Likely Wimp Out is the same way.

I happened to run into Eiscue in the Battle Tower, and its Ice Face doesn't regenerate while Hail is up. It did come back when it used the move Hail and the weather started.

Adding to this. Finally found an eiscue so I can test.

Ice face will restore if you switch eiscue in while there's hail, even if it's been restored earlier in the battle.

Ice face can regenerate multiple times without switching out, provided hail stops and restarts.

 

[HeatEdgeSword]

Might be wrong but... didn't Parental Bond do the same?

It's possible that every other peculiarity concerning Parental Bond affects Dragon Darts.

No, Parental Bond doesn't hit another Pokemon when it targets a Pokemon using Protect. And Parental Bond doesn't affects moves that hit multiples times and targets.

 

[Yung Dramps]

So right now, the Alolan forms of certain Kanto Pokemon (Dugtrio, Persian, Ninetales and Raichu) are available on the Gen 8 OU format. Is it actually possible to get these Alolan forms in-game without transfer, or is this a bug?

 

[urkerab]

I don't know if this was established already, but Tar Shot makes pokemon with a resistance to Fire neutral to it. It makes mons neutral to fire weak to it.

By that do you mean it changes the display of effectiveness?

Someone on r/stunfisk has reported that Dragon Darts will not hit a targetted Pokemon using Protect in Doubles and hit another Pokemon in Doubles twice instead. Can someone else test it?

https://www.reddit.com/r/stunfisk/comments/dygudi

I can confirm that this does happen. Darts will hit the other Pokemon if your target protects itself.

I've also heard that this applies to Pokémon that are Fairy type. I do wonder about Pokémon that are in the middle of Dig, Dive or Fly though.

Might be wrong but... didn't Parental Bond do the same?

It's possible that every other peculiarity concerning Parental Bond affects Dragon Darts.

No, that's subtly different; if you use a spread move but there is only one target because the other targets have already fainted then you get the second hit.

 

[CasualPokePlayer]

So right now, the Alolan forms of certain Kanto Pokemon (Dugtrio, Persian, Ninetales and Raichu) are available on the Gen 8 OU format. Is it actually possible to get these Alolan forms in-game without transfer, or is this a bug?

Looking at the raid, overworld, and non-overworld encounter dumps, doesn't seem like it's possible. Although, these Pokemon are in the game (according to this dump), so presumably when Home is out they'll be truly legal.

 

[BountyHunterStev]

Does Throat Spray item activate after Kommo-o uses Clangorious Soul?

Extra SpA boost would be sweet.

The item does activate after Kommo-o uses Clangorious Soul. So Kommo-o can get a +2 spatk increase in one turn.

Further more more there is something that should be noted (If any one comes across this thread)

Throat spray activates when:

The move makes contact with the target.

In double battles it activates as long as one target receives contact from a said multi hit sound moves.

The moves Viable for this item are any sound like attack. A good way to look at the moves that its usable for is to look up soundproof ability. All moves under this ability immunity list are moves that can activate. For ex.

If you use sing to try to put the target to sleep.

Scenerio A: Target is asleep and you get a spatk boost.

Scenerio B: Target avoids attack, You do not get the spatk boost.

Scenerio C: Target has soundproof, You do not get the spatk boost

Pokemon That have the sound proof ability negate these moves and throat spray does not activate.

 

[GMars]

There's been a bunch of misinformation going around the OU threads about Galarian Darmanitan, so TPP and I hopped in-game to test some things out.

---

Q: How much does Gorilla Tactics boost by?

In-battle: Gorilla Tactics Galarian Darmanitan (Lv. 50, 178 Attack) versus Coalossal (Lv. 50, 123 Def) using Brick Break.
Expected damage rolls with no ability and damage rolls are consistent with SM: (82, 84, 84, 86, 86, 88, 88, 90, 90, 92, 92, 94, 94, 96, 96, 98)
Damage rolls 1.3x boost (Life Orb): (107, 109, 109, 112, 112, 114, 114, 117, 117, 120, 120, 122, 122, 125, 125, 127)
Damage rolls 1.5x boost (Choice Band): (124, 124, 126, 128, 128, 130, 132, 134, 134, 136, 138, 140, 140, 142, 144, 146)
Recorded hits in-battle: 130, 128, 138 - consistent with 50% boost, above the range for a 30 or 33% boost

Gorilla Tactics likely boosts by 50%, and for sure boosts significantly more than 30%.

---

Q: Does Choice Band boost Gorilla Tactics?

In-battle: Choice Band Gorilla Tactics Galarian Darmanitan versus Coalossal as above, again using Brick Break.

Brick Break did over 175 damage and OHKO'd the Coalossal, hitting above the max damage roll for just the Gorilla Tactics boost.

Choice Band does boost Gorilla Tactics Galarian Darmanitan.

---

As Anubis stated previously, Dynamaxing negates the Gorilla Tactics boost (tested 178 Attack Dynamax Gorilla Tactics Galarian Darmanitan using a 130 BP Max Flare versus a 107 Defense Pangoro, did 85 Damage, consistent with rolls for no ability: (82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97))

TDK requested mechanics checking Max Moves versus Substitutes to see whether their secondary effects apply. Max Move secondary effects appear to always apply regardless of opposing Substitutes, even stat dropping through unbroken Substitutes. We have not tested G-Max Moves.

Does weather get set up if you break the sub: yes
--Water Max move breaking Substitute: Substitute faded, then Rain started
Does weather get set up if you don't break the sub:
--Water Max move not breaking Sub: Rain started
Do their stats drop if you don't break the sub:
--Dark Max move not breaking Substitute: Sp Def fell
Do your stats boost if you don't break the sub: yes
--Flying Max move not breaking Substitute: Speed rose

 

[Jibaku]

Not sure if it has been reported but

Silvally @ Memory using a max Multi Attack does the corresponding max move to said type instead of Max Strike, but it'll say Max Strike on the move selection screen.

Just did Silvally @ Rock Memory and got Max Rockfall out of Multi Attack.

 

[Count Bleck]

Multi target moves will activate blunder policy so long as one target is missed

Throat spray will only activate if the Sound based move hits the target. Failing and connecting into protect does not activate the item

Utility umbrella protects users from effects. In sandstorm and hail they will take the weather damage.

In the case of Rain, Which water type moves are boosted, the target will receive non-boosted damage thus retaining the original damage it does not affect move accuracy (Thunder and Hurricane) as far as I could tell. Using thunder in the rain with the umbrella seems go to 100% accuracy (Or I could be lucky, I'm still testing it.)

Unsure if this affects healing moves such as Synthesis or Solar beam (These moves get boosted in harsh sunlight). I don't have a pokemon to test this yet.

Unsure if this affects abilities like Eisue's. Other abilities like swift swim seem unaffected. My lvl 45 Ludicolo was faster then a lvl 60 Bisharp with the rain set up (Will test out Dry skin at some point)

If a Pokemon holding this item has Solar Power, do you get the boost without dropping health?

 

[BountyHunterStev]

If a Pokemon holding this item has Solar Power, do you get the boost without dropping health?

I'm unsure, testing out the abilities as best as I can. I unfortunately have no access to a Solar Power mon. Helioptile line and Charmander line are the only Pokemon in SwSh with this ability as a hidden ability, and the only way to obtain such HA's are through max raids. Haven't seen either yet.


I'm still testing abilities alongside the Utility Umbrella. Testing Dry Skin. Swift Swim. Thunder. and synthesis. I want to do multiple tests just to make sure I'm not getting lucky with Thunder.

Making sure the Hp gained from synthesis is different in its weather

Testing Swift Swim against other swift swimmers with a +Speed boosting nature.

I imagine if Dry skin still activates with the weather normally with the umbrella chances are Solar Power does as well.

 

[LordHelix]

We saw in the demo that terrains effected flying types (we saw a corvinight heal from grassy terrain)

So is this still a thing? Do terrains effect non grounded pokemon now or was it just a bug in the demo?

Id love if someone can test this out, thanks in advance!

 

[Rarycaris]

We saw in the demo that terrains effected flying types (we saw a corvinight heal from grassy terrain)

So is this still a thing? Do terrains effect non grounded pokemon now or was it just a bug in the demo?

Id love if someone can test this out, thanks in advance!

I was in more or less exactly the same scenario -- Corvisquire on Grassy Terrain -- and I didn't get healing from it. Seems like a demo bug that has now been fixed.

 

[Anubis]

Answering some questions from devs and assorted people:

- A non-Dynamaxed mon with hacked Max Guard is able to use it fine, and it defends against Dynamaxed mons using Max Moves without taking damage.

- You can hack in a Fire Gem, but it appears with a "?" icon and the description "A gem with the essence of fire. When held, it strengthens the power of a Fire-type move one time." It doesn't do anything when a fire move is used though.

- Dynamaxing allows you to use a Disable'd move in its Max form. You still get a message a few turns later saying the mon's move is no longer disabled, so it doesn't seem to be removed by Dynamaxing. If you Dynamax and get hit by Disable on the same turn before you attack, it still disables the last move used. If you already used a Max Move and then get hit by Disable, Disable fails. (My guess is that if your Dynamax'd mon were to lose a chance to use moves several times in a row such as through status, it could still get the base move Disabled in Dynamax form and continue on after Dynamax wears off.)

- Confusion is not removed upon Dynamaxing. You can also inflict confusion on Dynamaxed mons.

- Dynamaxing with a hacked ability retains it while Dynamaxed and afterwards (tested with Moody on Ribombee).

- Pixie Plate works! Test was done as follows: I used level 50 Modest 161 SpA Ribombee vs Sassy 115 SpD Corviknight. Dazzling Gleam did 39 damage and 45 damage on two different hits. With Pixie Plate, expected roll is 38-45; without, expected roll is 32-38.

- Mirror Armor bounces the Att drop from Strength Sap back, so I expect it would keep healing the same amount.

- Slow Start works appropriately, might be true for other abilities with no legitimate user.

- Unlike Red Card, Eject Button does switch out a Dynamaxed mon when it's hit by an attack.

Regarding G-Max Copperajah's unique "steel-type Stealth Rock" hazard, can traditional hazard removal methods (Rapid Spin, Defog) remove them?

- Rapid Spin and Defog both remove the stealth steel. The message is: "The pieces of steel surrounding your ally Pokemon disappeared!"

 

[HeatEdgeSword]

I've also heard that this applies to Pokémon that are Fairy type.

Nails has demonstrated that Dragon Darts will not hit a targeted Fairy-type.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1196934063707131904

 

[Sitri]

Ice face will restore if you switch eiscue in while there's hail, even if it's been restored earlier in the battle.

As it switches in, or after the turn ends?

 

[Marigold]

My friends have been testing if Fishious Rend is Strong Jaw-boosted on Dracovish. We have determined that it is but we don't have the equipment to get video footage or proper means to share it outside of primitive screenshots that could be interpreted as out of context. Could anybody else verify this? Fishious Rend being Jaw-boosted is legitimately terrifying for Dracovish and extremely metagame-defining.

EDIT: WE HAVE VIDEO EVIDENCE. PREPARING THE POST RNNNNNNN

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

My friends have been testing if Fishious Rend is Strong Jaw-boosted on Dracovish. We have determined that it is but we don't have the equipment to get video footage or proper means to share it outside of primitive screenshots that could be interpreted as out of context. Could anybody else verify this? Fishious Rend being Jaw-boosted is legitimately terrifying for Dracovish and extremely metagame-defining.

You and your friends could use your phones to record the battle(s) and upload them on imgur/twitter. They may shitty quality, but it would still help. If that's not an option have your friends been keeping tabs on damage the move does? What are the stats/level on Dracovish and your opponent's Pokemon?

 

[Morkal]

I don't know if this is in the works of being added yet, but it's not working on Showdown.
The Ripen ability (Appletun and Flapple exclusive ability) affects Leftovers recovery, giving 1/8th HP recovery each turn instead of the normal 1/16th recovery.

 

[Totomimi]

Here's a couple of research questions that arose from the bug report thread.

1- "Should gigantamax alcremie restore with G-Max finale 100% of its health in singles?" Couldn't find info regarding how much health is recovered by the move.

2- I read a report that there are alolan forme pokemon are not obtainable in the games. That's alolan-raichu, alolan-ninetales, alolan-dugtrio and alolan-persian. I know it's hard to confirm that they are unobtainable.
I'm assuming that these pokemon were present in the early datamines because some NPC uses this pokemon, so they can be seen but not caught.

2a- Have you seen any alolan forme pokemon in game?
2b- Was it a wild pokemon or a trainer's?
2c- Are you playing Sword or shield?

3- It's been confirmed that dynamax pokemon don't die to Destiny bond, but what if the pokemon comes out of dynamax on the same turn? Here is a replay that illustrates this scenario. Turn 12 https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8randombattle-1012819875

4- A user reports that he is getting Max Hailstorm when maxing lapras instead of g resonance.
4a- Is it possible that they dynamaxed instead of gigamaxing?
4b- How can the player decide whether a pokemon is gigantamaxed or dynamaxed?

5- Is it possible for a raichu to have Volt Tackle?

6- Does scrappy ignore intimidate?

Thank you very much.

 

[Marigold]

Unless I'm missing something, this video and calc proves Fishious Rend being Strong Jaw boosted.

stat proof

The only important stat is the 143 atk and the level 71.

calc proof

"Liquidation" is Fishious Rend without the Strong Jaw boost.
"Psychic Fangs" is Fishious Rend WITH the Strong Jaw boost (I changed the type to water).

The damage in the video adds up, Dracovish has the strongest Water attack in the game.

 

[Totomimi]

I don't know if this is in the works of being added yet, but it's not working on Showdown.
The Ripen ability (Appletun and Flapple exclusive ability) affects Leftovers recovery, giving 1/8th HP recovery each turn instead of the normal 1/16th recovery.

This contradicts this claim.

Ok, so it seems I was mistaken. I just tested it again in Hail. Appletun was at 234 HP, then it took Hail damage and went to 217 HP, then Ripen activated, Appletun ate Leftovers, then went back to 234. It’s still 6%, but why does Leftovers trigger Ripen then? :/

Under what cirumstances does ripen double the health recovered by leftovers?

 

[Yung Dramps]

Unless I'm missing something, this video and calc proves Fishious Rend being Strong Jaw boosted.

stat proof

The only important stat is the 143 atk and the level 71.

calc proof

"Liquidation" is Fishious Rend without the Strong Jaw boost.
"Psychic Fangs" is Fishious Rend WITH the Strong Jaw boost (I changed the type to water).

The damage in the video adds up, Dracovish has the strongest Water attack in the game.

For the sake of comparison, how much does Araquanid's Liquidation do at the same level vs the same target?