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Tangrowth
- Thread starter Hadn
- Start date
Those don't matter much when you have a weakness to Flying, Fire, and Ice.
Because it has a weakness to Fire (one of the most common attacking types in the metagame), Ice, Poison, Flying, and Bug. Not to mention that many Grass types are Grass/Poison (removes Ground resist and adds Psychic weaakness). Also, there are very few Grass mons that aren't straight up bad. That is why.
This. Ice is a phenomenal attacking type, but its myriad weaknesses have pushed most of them into NU. Grass is a similar situation.
Which is why a decent grass/water would be great. ludicolo would be a boss if it didin't have suckpot stats. water makes it neutral against ice and fire, preserves its ground resist, at the price of a neutrality to electric and a neutrality to grass.
Even in UU, Sand was reasonably common last gen (Hippopotas being in the top 10 leads for months) and the occasional Snover showed up. Hippopotas wouldn't like to risk switching in however, but why not simply use Power whip which has no potential drawbacks? A smart player could double switch Hippo then say Cradily in whith its huge SpDef to absorb the Solarbeam, for example, and while rare, I'd rather simply nail anything with a power whip.
I personally don't think Grass itself is too bad, despite its common weaknesses. But the pokemon who are Grass type are none too spectacular for the most part.
Bear with me im not great at thinking 
Chlorophyll Tangrowth going over 215 speed is a waste of EV's that might actually do something for him, though I'd say 214 based on that chart is all he needs, so 236 Speed EV's with a speed boosting nature.
Growth sweeper set
Tangrowth @ leftovers/Life orb/Expert Belt
Naive, 252 attack, 20 Def, 236 Spe.
Chlorophyll
Growth
Power whip
Earthquake/Brick Break / Rock slde/ Special attack
Hidden Power X/Giga Drain/Sleep Powder
I think those EV's work though they're very offensively geared.
Boosted power whip hits hard, as does everything else. Hidden power gives you some coverage as there are things that will take your physical hits. Hidden power fire is nice to prevent something like Nattorei from ruining you with status. Brick Break can stop blissy, and Doryuuzu (after a boost)
Only Growth once to leave some ease of killing your own Tangrowth if ditto appears. Sleep Powder helps set up Growth and support.
Partner this kid up with something like Heatran who won't mind...what...All of Tangrowth's weaknesses?
Growth only once though, to prevent Ditto from abusing you and pack a counter to yourself.
Personally seriously considering altaria to be able to come in on something Ditto does scarfed and ice beam it or hidden power ice it, whatever the hell just in case.
Chlorophyll Tangrowth going over 215 speed is a waste of EV's that might actually do something for him, though I'd say 214 based on that chart is all he needs, so 236 Speed EV's with a speed boosting nature.
Growth sweeper set
Tangrowth @ leftovers/Life orb/Expert Belt
Naive, 252 attack, 20 Def, 236 Spe.
Chlorophyll
Growth
Power whip
Earthquake/Brick Break / Rock slde/ Special attack
Hidden Power X/Giga Drain/Sleep Powder
I think those EV's work though they're very offensively geared.
Boosted power whip hits hard, as does everything else. Hidden power gives you some coverage as there are things that will take your physical hits. Hidden power fire is nice to prevent something like Nattorei from ruining you with status. Brick Break can stop blissy, and Doryuuzu (after a boost)
Only Growth once to leave some ease of killing your own Tangrowth if ditto appears. Sleep Powder helps set up Growth and support.
Partner this kid up with something like Heatran who won't mind...what...All of Tangrowth's weaknesses?
Growth only once though, to prevent Ditto from abusing you and pack a counter to yourself.
Personally seriously considering altaria to be able to come in on something Ditto does scarfed and ice beam it or hidden power ice it, whatever the hell just in case.
I'm not saying that Grass is a bad type. I like Grass types. But a Steel can be slapped on almost any team, while a Grass requires support. My post is the reason why people don't like them, not about me.
Power Whip generally is the preferred option, but I was (and am) unaware of which Tangrowth was being discussed. I don't say that SolarBeam>Power Whip. I say that, if someone doesn't want Power Whip, SolarBeam is probably the best STAB you're going to get, seeing as Leaf Storm causes you to switch.
Brief speak on his Chlorophyll competition I suppose.
Tangrowth's movepool is sexy in comparison I guess. Not many of them dropping earthquakes, brick breaks and rock slides.
On the flip a hell of a lot of them are much faster than him, and can try there luck in those higher speed tiers of sweeping.
His ability to switch in due to his bulk instead of waiting for something to drop really helps him.
Tangrowth's movepool is sexy in comparison I guess. Not many of them dropping earthquakes, brick breaks and rock slides.
On the flip a hell of a lot of them are much faster than him, and can try there luck in those higher speed tiers of sweeping.
His ability to switch in due to his bulk instead of waiting for something to drop really helps him.
It's a pity Tangrowth doesn't get Earth Power and Power Gem to augment it's nice special attack stat. Regardless, having Giga Drain really helps it, especially with Regeneration and Lefties.
Though should Tangrowth be used with Regeneration? It seems that Sun-Growth-Sweepers with chlorophyll are looking like better sets.
Though should Tangrowth be used with Regeneration? It seems that Sun-Growth-Sweepers with chlorophyll are looking like better sets.
Sunstall Tank.
Tangrowth@Leftovers
Ability: Leaf Guard
Nature: Bold(+Def -Atk)
252HP/252Def/4SpDef
Giga Drain/HP Fire
Leech Seed
HP Fire/Ingrain/Protect
Amnesia
It should be noted that Toxic Spikes really add a lot of support to this build. Leaf guard to protect from status effects. After an Amnesia or two, you start bulking yourself up for the long haul. Leech Seed and begin to sap the enemies health away. HP Fire is a great secondary choice as it clears away the steel and grass types that are immune to toxic spikes and leech seed. Giga Drain for added survivability. If you are afraid of roar/whirlwind ingrain is a great choice for sticking around and never dieing. However, you sacrifice offensive capabilities, and the ability to switch IF the need does arise. Protect is a good scouting move, and can give you an extra turn for healing.
An optional change would be Sleep Powder somewhere in there.
Tangrowth@Leftovers
Ability: Leaf Guard
Nature: Bold(+Def -Atk)
252HP/252Def/4SpDef
Giga Drain/HP Fire
Leech Seed
HP Fire/Ingrain/Protect
Amnesia
It should be noted that Toxic Spikes really add a lot of support to this build. Leaf guard to protect from status effects. After an Amnesia or two, you start bulking yourself up for the long haul. Leech Seed and begin to sap the enemies health away. HP Fire is a great secondary choice as it clears away the steel and grass types that are immune to toxic spikes and leech seed. Giga Drain for added survivability. If you are afraid of roar/whirlwind ingrain is a great choice for sticking around and never dieing. However, you sacrifice offensive capabilities, and the ability to switch IF the need does arise. Protect is a good scouting move, and can give you an extra turn for healing.
An optional change would be Sleep Powder somewhere in there.
Well, Power Gem = HP Rock in terms of power, and EQ generally hits stuff hard enough that Earth Power isn't especially needed. Furthermore, since his best STAB is arguably Power Whip, investing in Atk more is probably more common, making EQ more powerful in any case.
I haven't tried the Regeneration sets as of yet, but it definitely occupies a niche of an awesome physical wall with a Ground resist and Subseed, as well as Sleep Powder. It is the most physically bulky Grass in the game, aside from Evo Stone Tangela.
His prevo gives him some competition: it hits 100+ more Def easily, and about 40 higher SpDef. It has 80 lower HP and 20 less SpAtk but slightly more speed. However, it is in fact less specially bulky (effectively) due to lack of lefties, is crippled without its item, cannot make 101 Subs, and loses the 2HKO on Nattorei with HP Fire. It is also very reliant on move based and Regeneration recovery especially if using Sub due to having to run Evo Stone, meaning it's pretty badly effected by SS for example.
For those reasons I'd say both are viable depending on what is run; Tangela's greater physical bulk and greater draining recovery make them slightly different but both viable.
I've tested Tangrowth and was really pleased. Regeneration is a great boon to it especially since it lacks reliable recovery otherwise. While more speed would be nice, Tangrowth is a pretty decent Pokemon as it is - excellent physical bulk and good mixed attacking stats that prevent it from being set-up fodder. I've been using it to counter Gyarados, Terakion, Doryuuzu and the like.
Anyway, Grass is not a bad type; offensively the coverage isn't excellent but defensively it provides a lot of key resists. Being able to switch in on and dispose of the ubiquitous bulky Water-types and Ground-types certainly helps. The multitude of weaknesses obviously can't be anything good but that's why teams have 6 Pokemon. You'll remember that Grass types formed a third of the F/W/G cores that populated UU and became rather common even in OU towards the end of last generation.
Anyway, Grass is not a bad type; offensively the coverage isn't excellent but defensively it provides a lot of key resists. Being able to switch in on and dispose of the ubiquitous bulky Water-types and Ground-types certainly helps. The multitude of weaknesses obviously can't be anything good but that's why teams have 6 Pokemon. You'll remember that Grass types formed a third of the F/W/G cores that populated UU and became rather common even in OU towards the end of last generation.
*sigh* Guys, from now on, every time someone mentions Solarbeam as an option on a grass type, I savagely murder a kitten.
Solarbeam has far more drawbacks than it has reasons to use it. Use Giga Drain. Or if you really need more power, go with Petal Dance.
The only time Solarbeam is ever an option is on something that absolutely needs a grass move for coverage on a sun team. Which would mean the occasional Fire type with no movepool.
And almost always Hidden Power is the better option.
I honestly see Tangrowth as more of a bulky sweeper with support options rather than a wall. When it comes to grass-type walls, there are better options.
*EDIT* oh, if you're going bulky and don't have spin support, Leaf Guard + Synthesis > Regeneration. This way you won't be poisoned by Toxic Spikes. Though admittedly this shouldn't be a problem, it's very likely you have a Grass/Poison on your team if you're running a sun team.
Solarbeam has far more drawbacks than it has reasons to use it. Use Giga Drain. Or if you really need more power, go with Petal Dance.
The only time Solarbeam is ever an option is on something that absolutely needs a grass move for coverage on a sun team. Which would mean the occasional Fire type with no movepool.
And almost always Hidden Power is the better option.
I honestly see Tangrowth as more of a bulky sweeper with support options rather than a wall. When it comes to grass-type walls, there are better options.
*EDIT* oh, if you're going bulky and don't have spin support, Leaf Guard + Synthesis > Regeneration. This way you won't be poisoned by Toxic Spikes. Though admittedly this shouldn't be a problem, it's very likely you have a Grass/Poison on your team if you're running a sun team.
If a user predicts a solar beam, they are absolutely fine switching in a hippowdon to change the weather to sandstorm, and sit there and watch as solar beam just sits there and charges for a turn.
Of course they have to switch out again to dodge the solar beam the next turn, unless they run protect (like me).
Solarbeam would be a better option if opposing auto-weather Pokemon weren't commonly used. However, they are, and that makes Solarbeam a liability in many cases.
I was toying with this idea during Gen IV but the intent was a little different.
My aim was to beat Tangrowth's usual counters since even powerful (no sun) fire attacks from Heatran couldn't OHKO after Amnesia.
Tangrowth is potentially one of the best Amnesia users because its HP and Def are already so good.
Do you have any suggestions on what to run over what?
Amnesia, Leech Seed, Giga Drain, HP Fire? Or what?
I'd suggest Earthquake over Leech Seed on that suggested moveset just for Heatran. Tangrowth's one of the few things that can beat it in Sun. If you Amnesia up as it switches in, you can easily survive one move barring a crit to smack it's balloon and deliver a quick EQ to finish it.
Heatran always OHKOs in the sun with Fire Blast after an Amnesia, assuming 252/4 Tangrowth. Specially defensive sets take 85.3% - 100.8% after a boost, so have fun dealing with him effectively. I'd much rather run Leech Seed to get some extra damage and then just switch out.
Don't get me wrong, Heatran is a problem. I mean, Tangrowth with amnesia can be one heck of a wall if played well but you are always going to have a weakness no matter what way you look at it.
Leech Seed is a must. Must have it. That and amnesia are the whole point of the set. If I was deathly afraid of Heatran, I would just change the Hidden Power to HP ground instead of fire. Then you have to choose... no HP Fire for Scizor, Skarm, Foretress, Natorei... OR... no HP Ground for Heatran and other fire/poison types who may pose a threat.
Personally, I am more worried about everything else rather than Heatran. Even in the case of having to deal with Heatran, I figure Tangrowth will do its job well enough, and if you can catch that Heatran with an Earthquake from another pokemon before you start your Leech Seed Amnesia stalling train, then you are set to go. Can't expect Tangrowth to stop everything... but it can sure as hell get close.
Leech Seed is a must. Must have it. That and amnesia are the whole point of the set. If I was deathly afraid of Heatran, I would just change the Hidden Power to HP ground instead of fire. Then you have to choose... no HP Fire for Scizor, Skarm, Foretress, Natorei... OR... no HP Ground for Heatran and other fire/poison types who may pose a threat.
Personally, I am more worried about everything else rather than Heatran. Even in the case of having to deal with Heatran, I figure Tangrowth will do its job well enough, and if you can catch that Heatran with an Earthquake from another pokemon before you start your Leech Seed Amnesia stalling train, then you are set to go. Can't expect Tangrowth to stop everything... but it can sure as hell get close.
I feel this should have been mentioned already, it may have been somewhere else but, why don't we do a leaf guard + rest combo? It is hydrarest but in the sun.
I believe its been said to not work. It doesn't work like hydration rest as in Vaporeon used rest, Vaporeon fell asleep, Vaporeon woke up due to hydration + rain!
In Leaf Guards mechanics, its more like, Tangrowth used rest! Rest failed! Leaf Guard prevented the sleep status!
Not word for word obviously, but it works like that.
Besides... I am sure people would have had their minds blown last generation if that was the case. I mean, Tangrowth had Leaf Guard last gen as well.
oh.... well that ruined my idea for fun with some of my favorite grass types (meganium). :\
Grass types unfortunately aren't loved by the creators as much as water types are. The only thing leaf gaurd has over hydration is that being unable to become affected by status to begin with can be useful. For a hydration pokemon in Gen IV, breloom could just spam spore if he was faster until the rain stopped falling due to the fact that the sleep status was healed at the end of the turn. Leaf Gaurd pokes don't have this problem.
Remember the little known fact that SolarBeam's power is halved under non-sun weather!
Tyranitar switches in!
x is absorbing sunlight!
Tyranitar used Dragon Dance!
x used Solarbeam!
Or...
Politoed switches in!
x is absorbing sunlight!
Politoed used Ice Beam!
It's super effective!
x is now crippled!
x used Solarbeam!
Or...
Abomasnow switches in!
x is absorbing sunlight!
Abomasnow used Blizzard!
x fainted!
With how common rain is, solarbeam is not viable at all. Do you really want them getting in, say, Kingdra for free, taking damage as if you used Magical Leaf? I thought so.
