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The Everything NFL Thread - 2009

CaptKirby said:
So after you make a longwinded post trying to call me out and telling me to point out how I figured what I figured, I emphatically prove that I have a case and your response is a petulant tantrum? Congratulations, you lost this one.
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You know what, after going back and retyping my post 3 times I've decided that it's futile to argue with you since this is just a grudge and no matter what I say you'll find some little bone to pick at and reasons to declare yourself superior over the internet with big fancy words that hold no purpose other than to make yourself sound smart.

Congratulations on your internet victory, go beat your chest and grunt if it makes you happy. I'm going back to the football discussion.

EDIT: When returning to the football discussion it helps if one actually adds something relevant to the topic. For that reason I say the Saints are still the best team in football at the moment, despite their apparent troubles with "lowly" Washington. Even bad teams like the Redskins and Raiders can have good games. Shit, even the Browns almost came back on the Chargers yesterday. It just reinforces the old adage "any given Sunday"
 
WaterBomb said:
You know what, after going back and retyping my post 3 times I've decided that it's futile to argue with you since this is just a grudge and no matter what I say you'll find some little bone to pick at and reasons to declare yourself superior over the internet with big fancy words that hold no purpose other than to make yourself sound smart.

Congratulations on your internet victory, go beat your chest and grunt if it makes you happy. I'm going back to the football discussion.

EDIT: When returning to the football discussion it helps if one actually adds something relevant to the topic. For that reason I say the Saints are still the best team in football at the moment, despite their apparent troubles with "lowly" Washington. Even bad teams like the Redskins and Raiders can have good games. Shit, even the Browns almost came back on the Chargers yesterday. It just reinforces the old adage "any given Sunday"
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Wat? The Colts are much better than the Saints and you have no idea how much that pains me (if i had to choose between the saints and the colts... saints without a second thought). Bandwagonnnnnnn. I'm gonna go ahead and be that one stubborn dude as always and say Falcons over Saints... that is if Matt Ryan's wimpy butt decides to play.
 
WaterBomb, there is no grudge; I do not know what I could possibly have to hold against you, so that is just in your mind. You just want the last word and to seem big. I do not care about anything except showing you were wrong...which I already did. Then you did what everyone does when bludgeoned with intelligence proving they are wrong, but are unwilling to admit they are wrong in speech but acknowledge they were beaten, which is to balk and go with a generic "fuck you blah blah blah". You can have the last word too, I am not responding to whatever you post next.

Stallion, I do not think Sagarin's SOS is based off of just records, although that makes it a different valuable SOS in its own way. I do find it interesting that it bears out Saints and Vikings having the third and second easiest with Colts fourteenth hardest by his ratings. Also amusing that the Packers are 0-3 against the top 10; why is everyone buying into them?

Matt Ryan is not a wimp; you are just full of typically masculine bluster bullshit if you do not understand that it is logical to choose money and career longevity over playing through debilitating pain.

The Colts are absolutely the best team - they won 22 of their last 23 games, with the only loss in overtime where they never received the ball to a team that had a performance by its backup running back that said running back could maybe replicate once every two or three years. That puts them at #1 since pretty much the first Steelers loss.
 
I belive that the Raiders are showing promise, since they have made upsets of two of the best teams in the NFL right now.
Steeler said:
looking at teams' last season records really doesn't mean a thing when it comes to evaluating strength of schedule.
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Can this show that the Steelers should have won more games than they have?
I still don't understand what is wrong with them.
Who else is wondering how the Titans are going to finish this season?
 
CaptKirby said:
Matt Ryan is not a wimp; you are just full of typically masculine bluster bullshit if you do not understand that it is logical to choose money and career longevity over playing through debilitating pain.
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this, this, fucking this. take a leaf from his book, idiot michael turner.
 
CaptKirby said:
WaterBomb, there is no grudge; I do not know what I could possibly have to hold against you, so that is just in your mind. You just want the last word and to seem big. I do not care about anything except showing you were wrong...which I already did. Then you did what everyone does when bludgeoned with intelligence proving they are wrong, but are unwilling to admit they are wrong in speech but acknowledge they were beaten, which is to balk and go with a generic "fuck you blah blah blah". You can have the last word too, I am not responding to whatever you post next.
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this is lol because you're doing the exact same thing. Just the act of saying that you "proved" me wrong is laughable, as we're both just expressing our opinions. What arrogance must you have to honestly think your opinion is of any more worth than another? Bludgeoning me with intelligence? All you bludgeoned me with was an unprovoked attack with big, pretentious words that had no place in the conversation. And then you end it with tha classic "I'm not going to respond to anything you post after this" card, trying to look like the bigger man after you started a stupid argument over something very insignificant. I'm willing to admit I'm wrong when I make an error, yes. I am not willing to say my own opinion is wrong. To ask someone to do that is idiocy.

Go ahead and don't respond to this, as it would do me a huge favor. This argument has gone on far longer than it should have, and I'd really like it to just be over. Your continued attacks on me and your arrogance are all that have kept me going. I don't care about having the last word. You can say you had it if you like. You can go around and tell people you won an argument. All I ask is that you do not ever tell me that my opinion is "wrong".

EDIT: Come on YTP I've made it pretty obvious I'm a Steelers fan. Calling me a bandwagon Saints fan is a bit silly wouldn't you say? I say the Saints are the best team in football because, after watching all their games, I think they are the best team in football. I'm not going to throw stats at you because they can be chosen to fit an agenda. All I will say is that, as an experienced football player, I believe the Saints are the best team. I do not, however, believe they will finish 16-0.
 
A lot of people in general think the saints are such a great team because of that inflated record that really doesn't tell the true story of how this season has went. Sorry if I mistook you for one of those people.. not easy to understand what people are really saying over the internet.
 
Even if the Saints record is inflated, it is not like the Colts and Saints are not #1 and #2 in that order, and you can still argue that the Saints are #1 because "well a lot of the Colts wins have been awfully close/because of the referees!" or call to their use of wild plays that the Colts avoid or the like. If you want to discredit them, it does not matter - the only teams that are close are the Vikings, Chargers, Bengals, or even maybe Broncos, but none of those teams are on par with the Saints or Colts, just with each other in the competition to be #3.
 
We sorely missed Ed Reed that match, Derek Mason's pass interference call was fucking awful (Woodson is a beast but he went to ground like a feather there!) and fucking Joe Flacco had to throw consecutive intercepts in offensive plays. Being a Ravens fan has to be one of the most fucking frustrating things in sports, not the kind of frustration that DM has to face being a Bills fan knowing his team is doomed to mediocrity but the frustration of knowing that your team is easily playoff material but they continue to play like inconsistent pieces of shit.
 
No. It is not the most frustrating thing in sports to have a team that plays good rather than great and won a fucking championship in your lifetime. It is the most frustrating to be a fan of a team like the Texas Rangers or Detroit Lions. You had the luckiest team in football TWO FUCKING YEARS AGO. You utterly lack perspective.
 
I'm a Rangers fan mate, so I definitely do have a right to comment on this situation (especially this year, where we'd look like world beaters and destroy teams like the Angelis and Yankees and trip up on the fucking Athletics) and I do have perspective. My team won in my lifetime, but how much am I gonna appreciate it when I'm all of 8 years old? I didn't say it was the most frustrating as that would be a big insult to the aforementioned Detroit Lions fans or just fans of Cleveland sport in general, but it is just infuriating to see that's all.
 
Come on guys, being a football fan is inevitably going to involve some frustration, no matter what team you follow. Everyone loses, everyone has bad games, everyone gets unlucky. I'm frustrated with my team too, but I try to look forward instead of backward. Sure, on Sunday after we lost to the Raiders I beat my punching bag pretty good, but hey that's football! Right now I'm desperately hoping we beat the Browns to stay alive in the wild card hunt. I also need Jacksonville to fuck up big time!
 
Shutoku C1 Warrior said:
Can this show that the Steelers should have won more games than they have?
I still don't understand what is wrong with them.
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like i said, every loss has been by less than 7 points, and only one loss was by more than 3. it's just little miscues that happen to come back and bite us late in games. the steelers are still a good team, and a great one when everyone (troy polamalu) is playing at top level. if they win out, i think the steelers will make the playoffs. but that's a big if.

Freeman. said:
Strength of schedule is useless and overrated.
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i think it's interesting and has some merit but some do take it for more than its worth. it has zero worth if you look at last year's records and try to use it to argue something for a team this season, though.
 
i think it's interesting and has some merit but some do take it for more than its worth. it has zero worth if you look at last year's records and try to use it to argue something for a team this season, though.
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It has zero worth during the regular season. Who the hell expcted the Giants to be 7-5 after starting 5-0?
 
Freeman. said:
Strength of schedule is useless and overrated.
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Strength of schedule would be useful...if a team's record accurately reflected how good they were. I can think of several teams that are much better than their records say (Patriots, Steelers, Dolphins, Ravens, Redskins, etc), as well as several more teams that are worse than their records say (Bengals, Broncos, Vikings). In a game where there is often a very thin line between winner and loser, a few points can mean the difference between 2-10 and 10-2. This is why strength of schedule based on record is inherently flawed, especially when it's based on the records of the PRIOR season. Current season records used to determine schedule strength are only slightly less irrelevant.

To add to the perspective, the Steelers have beaten the Vikings (10-2), Chargers (9-3), and Broncos (8-4). They've lost to the Chiefs (3-9), the Raiders (4-8), and the Bears (5-7). This kind of unpredictability shows that teams often get trapped by games against weaker opponents because they get lulled into a false sense of security. Green Bay lost to Tampa Bay this way, and New Orleans almost earned their first loss against the Redskins. To really analyze a team, one must watch all their games and evaluate all facets of their play. This takes alot of time, patience, and football knowledge in many categories on all 3 sides of the ball. Since none of us really has that kind of time on their hands, win-loss records are the closest method we can get to portraying a team's strength. Sucks I know, but everyday fans don't want a complicated process, they want a simplified number they can understand.
 
The Bengals and Broncos both have winning records against the top teams. You seem to overestimate and underestimate teams with no consistency. Now I would say your Steelers analysis is pretty right, except I do not think it is really that much of a false sense of security thing, but maybe more like any team has about a 10-25% chance of winning any game even if it is a sorry team versus a great team. There is just too much that can happen with huge, powerful players throwing themselves around a field for two hours for anything to be close to guaranteed anymore.

One other take on the Steelers though is that they are worse than they should be just by losing so much regardless of whom they are beating or losing to (again courtesy of TMQ): "Stats of the Week No. 2: Defending Super Bowl champion Pittsburgh has lost four straight games. The Steelers are just the fourth defending Super Bowl champion to lose four straight."

No Stallion, you have no right. You said that DM's situation is worse than yours! This decade the Bills are 64-92 with no playoffs appearances. Ravens are 89-67 with a super bowl win and four other playoff appearances, including two other seasons with playoff wins (three total). Someone who is loony enough to whine about being a Ravens fan lacks perspective.

If you want to extend it further than that, to since the Ravens as they stand have existed, it is still 101-119 for the Bills in seasons + 1-4 in the playoffs, 107-100-1 for the Ravens in seasons + 7-4 in the playoffs with a super bowl win!

I am not saying there is anything wrong with being upset and passionate as a sports fan, but there is a point it becomes petty whining. The typical sports fan wants to be the most pitiful for some reason. Sports should be about fun, not misery! I am still never going to forgive Chris Simms in my lifetime or the BCS system for last year and robbing us, but I am far happier about Vince Young marching us down the field unstoppably against USC for a championship win and being in the championship this year than I am bitter about the bad.
 
Freeman. said:
delhomme.jpg
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You jest, but I honestly believe the Bengals and Vikings are not that great. Yeah, maybe the Broncos do deserve their record as they have played well against good teams consistently. The Bengals, on the other hand, haven't exactly wowed me on any front. Their biggest strength is the speed and tenacity of their defense, which has been causing problems for opposing QBs. If you look at their offense though, they've struggled to put points on the board and put games out of reach. Cedric Benson has been the bright spot this year, with their other superstars (Palmer, Ochocinco) being terribly inconsistent. I don't think they've been really tested yet this season, with their toughest wins coming against Green Bay in week 2 when their O-line was struggling and Pittsburgh twice without Polamalu. If the Bengals can top San Diego and Minnesota in the next 2 weeks, then I will be impressed. I think they will lose both of these games though.

Speaking of the Vikings, they need to get Winfield back. The way Kurt Warner torched their secondary is unacceptable if they wish to go anywhere in the playoffs. This team has talent coming out its ears on both sides of the ball, but it will never withstand the test of a good team unless it can develop better chemistry and shut down the pass. This is especially important when you expect to see the likes of Drew Brees, Kurt Warner, and Aaron Rodgers in the playoffs. I think the Vikings will win their last 4 games, but the Bengals and Giants will be tough opponents. They'll probably even earn a first round bye, but a matchup against the Cardinals or Eagles in the Divisional round would probably bring this team down.

Then again, who knows. I would love to see these two teams prove me wrong.
 
who cares how they are winning? all that matters is that they are winning games and are going to win their division when no one thought they could. meanwhile, the steelers could very well miss the playoffs. also, injuries are part of the game and aren't an excuse.
 
WaterBomb said:
The Bengals, on the other hand, haven't exactly wowed me on any front. Their biggest strength is the speed and tenacity of their defense, which has been causing problems for opposing QBs. If you look at their offense though, they've struggled to put points on the board and put games out of reach.
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Says the Steelers fan...
 
Because "winning when no one thought you could" counts for anything in a league where teams make one year leaps all the time, and winning over bad teams definitely ensures you will win in the playoffs when people stop dumbly blitzing too much or play better defense. (That was to Freeman)
 
CaptKirby said:
Even if the Saints record is inflated, it is not like the Colts and Saints are not #1 and #2 in that order, and you can still argue that the Saints are #1 because "well a lot of the Colts wins have been awfully close/because of the referees!" or call to their use of wild plays that the Colts avoid or the like.
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I disagree with this since that most of the Saints' recent wins have been by less than 7 points.
It went into overtime with the Redskins.
THE REDSKINS.
I'd say the Colts are #1 since they have the more balanced team (Saints' defense has played terrible in recent weeks.)
Still, the Packers won, so I'm happy.
 
Freeman. said:
also, injuries are part of the game and aren't an excuse.
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i'm kind of tired of this argument. the fact is that a team won't be playing at their peak level due to something that is really out of anyone's control. you just kind of accept the fact that the team caught a bad break and try to win games a little shorthanded. that's what i'm doing with the steelers this year, and i'm sure that's what pats fans were doing last year. i mean, you accept the losses but i think both sides of a game realize that things could have turned out quite differently if not for a single injury.

speaking of which, what do you guys think of the patriots now? do you think the "dynasty" is over? i saw a bunch of new england obituaries this week, heh.

personally, i think they'll always be a regular season threat as long as brady and belichick are together, but for them to have playoff success, they really need to restock the cupboard on the defensive side. it's a 2-3 year long process at this point imo, but that's well within the limits of brady's career.

*EDIT*

interesting statistic:

five of pittsburgh's six losses have occurred in the final 14 seconds of the game or overtime.

watching the steelers in the 4th quarter this year is excruciating. if you want to talk about really frustrating events for sports fans, that's as bad as it gets in a season, imo. it's worse than getting blown out 59-0, imo.
 
Freeman. said:
who dey think dey gon beat dem bengals
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Ah, no wonder you've been automatically disagreeing with me. You're a Bengals fan!

Seriously though, I can't sit here and say the Steelers are better than the Bengals this season because they really aren't. Teams absolutely must be prepared to compensate for the loss of any starter due to injury. Yes it's impossible to replicate the talent of someone like Polamalu, but the backup should be at least adequate enough to give the team a chance. Even if we had Polamalu for both games against Cincy, it probably would have still come down to the wire. Perhaps we might have split the series 1-1 instead of the Bengals sweeping, but hey it is what it is.

Still, I'd reeeeeeeeeally love to have Troy back before the season is over. If (and that's a big IF) we make the playoffs, we're going to need him if we want even a chance at repeating.
 
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