Don't worry about it. You'll figure out how stuff works around here soon enough. :)Oh his profile page, okay. I PMed him, actually.
Anyways, my bad x_x sorry
Don't worry about it. You'll figure out how stuff works around here soon enough. :)Oh his profile page, okay. I PMed him, actually.
Anyways, my bad x_x sorry
Charizard-X can 2HKO with Dragon Claw at +1 and only do about 45-50% back with Earthquake. It is not a counter and it definitely doesn't want to risk switching into a potential Charizard-Y. Tangrowth gets Sleep Powder too, so it is not total set up bait. Mega Venusaur also can't beat Mega TTar because it 2HKO's with +1 Crunch. Tangrowth has about a 75% chance of avoiding the 2HKO from +1 Ice Punch, so it is actually a better answer to Mega TTar.Venusaur has Thick Fat which allows it to defeat Charizard X (it can take a +1 Flare Blitz and retaliate with EQ), and TTar one-on-one , and can opt to run Sleep Powder for other sweepers;
Charizard-X can 2HKO with Dragon Claw at +1 and only do about 45-50% back with Earthquake. It is not a counter and it definitely doesn't want to risk switching into a potential Charizard-Y. Tangrowth gets Sleep Powder too, so it is not total set up bait. Mega Venusaur also can't beat Mega TTar because it 2HKO's with +1 Crunch. Tangrowth has about a 75% chance of avoiding the 2HKO from +1 Ice Punch, so it is actually a better answer to Mega TTar.
As for being set up bait, relying on Foul Play as your only means of dealing damage is an easy way to become set up. Bisharp, Mega Mawile, Mega TTar, and many other offensive threats don't give a shit about unstabbed Foul Play. At least Tangrowth has the coverage to prevent these threats from just coming in for free. The only reason Amoongus is currently ranked higher than Tangrowth is because of the better defensive typing. Tangrowth is better otherwise.
Tangrowth is obviously not perfect with the improved defensive typing, and it is still weak against Fire and Flying types. But you have 5 of Pokemon on your team to deal with those threats. The purpose of the Poison typing is to patch up some of the flaws which make it currently C rank. It is a similar buff to Volt Absorb Jellicent which can now take on Electric types better, but is still destroyed by Ghost and Dark types.
Bisharp and Mega Mawile don't give a flying Muk about Clear Smog because they're Steel-types, and thus are unaffected by it.Bisharp, Mega Maw, Mega TTar etc don't care about Foul Play, but they care about Spore or Clear Smog and they definitely want to attack outright rather than set up.
Bisharp and Mega Mawile don't give a flying Muk about Clear Smog because they're Steel-types, and thus are unaffected by it.
You mean Sleep Powder, right?They care more about Spore than they care about an unboosted unSTABed EQ from uninvested base 100 Atk from Tangrowth.
Tangrowth has Sleep Powder. It is not as accurate as Spore, but at least Tangrowth can do something after it puts its foe to sleep unlike Amoongus.They care more about Spore than they care about an unboosted unSTABed EQ from uninvested base 100 Atk from Tangrowth.
I mean they care about Spore from Amoonguss more than they care about any attack from Tangrowth.You mean Sleep Powder, right?
Giving Tangrowth Sleep Powder alone is a huge compromise because it practically gives up most of its special bulk to do so, whereas if it wants special bulk it loses Sleep Powder by virtue of AV. It simply isn't as versatile as any other OU Grass type, because the opponent can know the whole set seeing the item, and in so doing conclude what can set up on it, what forces it out, what KOs it etc. in a single turn. It is simply not as worth using as other OU Grass types in general because if it doesn't become an asset, it becomes a huge burden, unlike every other OU viable Grass type, who has a middle ground to be in.Tangrowth has Sleep Powder. It is not as accurate as Spore, but at least Tangrowth can do something after it puts its foe to sleep unlike Amoongus.
Ah, I must've misread that. My bad.I mean they care about Spore from Amoonguss more than they care about any attack from Tangrowth.
I don't know why you keep talking about Tangrowth's special defense. Tangrowth is not meant to be used as a special wall. If the opponent sends in a special attacker, you switch out and take advantage of Regenerator. Its physical bulk is better than any Grass type in OU; it is meant to be used as a physical wall with Leftovers.I mean they care about Spore from Amoonguss more than they care about any attack from Tangrowth.
Giving Tangrowth Sleep Powder alone is a huge compromise because it practically gives up most of its special bulk to do so, whereas if it wants special bulk it loses Sleep Powder by virtue of AV. It simply isn't as versatile as any other OU Grass type, because the opponent can know the whole set seeing the item, and in so doing conclude what can set up on it, what forces it out, what KOs it etc. in a single turn. It is simply not as worth using as other OU Grass types in general.
I don't know why you keep talking about Tangrowth's special defense. Tangrowth is not meant to be used as a special wall. If the opponent sends in a special attacker, you switch out and take advantage of Regenerator. Its physical bulk is better than any Grass type in OU; it is meant to be used as a physical wall with Leftovers.
I also don't know why you keep talking about lack of versatility. It has pretty much every useful move Venusaur has plus a few additional options like Rock Slide and Focus Blast. It can run any set Mega Venusaur can. It actually has more versatility since it does not have to rely on Synthesis for healing like Mega Venusaur does.
To handle a number of physical Water, Fairy, Grass, and Fighting type threats that Hippowdon can't. Azumarill, Breloom, Conkeldurr, Mega Gyarados, Gliscor, Ferrothorn, Landorus-T, and Mandibuzz. I could probably add more to the list, but hopefully anyone else reading this gets the point. Tangrowth is valued not so much for its Grass typing as much as its raw bulk. Poison typing turns its crappy defensive typing into decent defensive typing and allows it to make use of its bulk.If you are using a defensive Grass type in the first place, it is for their precious resistances to Water, Electric, Fairy types, who are primarily special offensive types. What use is using a defensive Grass type with poor special bulk when even some resisted hits from said typings can 2HKO it through its poor special bulk with some prior damage.
To handle a number of physical Water, Fairy, Grass, and Fighting type threats that Hippowdon can't. Azumarill, Breloom, Conkeldurr, Mega Gyarados, Gliscor, Ferrothorn, Landorus-T, and Mandibuzz. I could probably add more to the list, but hopefully anyone else reading this gets the point. Tangrowth is valued not so much for its Grass typing as much as its raw bulk. Poison typing turns its crappy defensive typing into decent defensive typing and allows it to make use of its bulk.
We could keep this back and forth going, but at some point you'll have to tell people why they should vote for Jellicent instead of voting against Tangrowth if you want your choice to win. The last page has all been about Tangrowth, so who do you think people will vote for? Your best shot at this point is to drum up enough support for Jellicent so that it gets more votes than Celebi and Sceptile so that it gets a second chance because Tangrowth is probably going to win this round.
For the last time, here is why you would use Tangrowth over other Grass types:The last page was all about Tangrowth because it was all talk between 3 people so I don't see your point in the last paragraph. I'm writing about down about Tangrowth rather than writing up on Jellicent because I'm considering abstaining from voting, even if it were for Jellicent, it plays very similar to Lanturn (and we know Lanturn isn't particlarly effective). I don't give half a flying fuck about whether a my suggestion gets voted into the metagame because I don't ladder on the theorymon ladder, and neither do I care about if my theorymon is archived because no one actually reads that. I am currently playing the devil advocate because what I want is something that actually causes a metagame shift, and giving a secondary Poison typing to Tangrowth doesn't seem to be what excites me (giving it Fighting would).
Yes, Tangrowth has impacts in the metagame, as you have mentioned. However, the impact that Tangrowth actually can have on the metagame, we already have stuff that can fulfil those. Of all the options in the list, why would I use Tangrowth instead of Venusaur. The special bulk and ability is much more significant than the slight increase in physical bulk, allowing it to check Greninja, Aegislash, Thundurus, Manaphy and Landorus lacking Psychic, Keldeo (which can 2HKO Tangrowth with Hydro Pump), which are arguably more relevant that the physical threats listed. Or why over Ferrothorn for the matter, why run Tangrowth over Ferrothorn; yes the Fighting weakness is bad, but the fact that Ferrothorn was OU last gen which was dominated by Fighting type attacks (and Psychic type attacks are devoid), and Amoonguss was in RU shows how much a Fighting type weakness actually affects which gets outclassed. In fact, even Celebi gives Tangrowth competition, still handling all the threats that you have mentioned, minus Landorus-T, and Celebi takes less than Tangrowth from Shadow Ball, which attributed to its decline in the first place. Tangrowth has its use, as does every Pokemon that exists, but there isn't a reason to run it.
For the last time, here is why you would use Tangrowth over other Grass types:
Mega Venusaur: Does not take up mega slot, higher physical bulk, Regenerator, Leftovers
Amoongus: Higher physical bulk, capable offensively
Ferrothorn: Not weak to fighting, Regenerator, Synthesis, more offensive
Celebi: Not 4x weak to U-turn, not weak to Knock Off and Crunch, Regenerator, higher physical bulk
These are real legitimate reasons to run Tangrowth over any of the other four. These are indisputable facts. Tangrowth does not have to completely outclass them to be viable, it just has to have these advantages over the others to justify its use. Tangrowth has the best chance of the four options of causing a metagame shift. Jellicent, Sceptile, and Celebi are all D rank or below, and their buffs just don't help them enough. If you don't like the Theorymons on the slate, give alexwolf better suggestions.
Fairy wat?If you are using a defensive Grass type in the first place, it is for their precious resistances to Water, Electric, Fairy types, who are primarily special offensive types. What use is using a defensive Grass type with poor special bulk when even some resisted hits from said typings can 2HKO it through its poor special bulk with some prior damage. Even thought the best set to differentiate itself from other Grass types is the physically defensive set as I have highlighted in an older post, the most successful set is still the AV set (as seen on its analysis) because it can make actual use of its resistances. And in so doing, it loses Sleep Powder, making it set up bait for many dangerous sweepers. It doesn't have the luxury of abusing its useful resistances and Sleep Powder at the same time, which attributes to low versatility. (Versatility does not only come from what it can run, but also what combination of moves, bulk, etc that it can run.)
Fairy wat?
Water and Ground are the main resistances you're after. The electric resist is nice, but it doesn't avoid paralysis or stop volt switch, so ground is generally better against electric. Tangrowth's claim to fame defensively has always been stopping things like Garchomp and Excadrill. On which note, a poison type is actually a mixed bag actually...