I don’t see what’s wrong with that statement the set order is as intended and feel free to point out any flaws so I can fix them bop
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Ultra Sun & Moon OU Analysis Discussion
- Thread starter Hootie
- Start date
Felixx
I'm back.
This is the only thing I found wrong is this:
"Glaciate is an unconventional option to allow Victini to 2HKO defensive Landorus-T and Zygarde without dropping its Speed, and Glaciate also drops the speed of Choice Scarf variants of Landorus-T so Victini can 2HKO them."
CB V-create 2HKOs Lando but drops its speed
CB V-create dosen't 2HKO Zygarde for bulkier spreads
The part I bolded implies that Zygarde gets 2HKOed by V-create when it should imply that Lando gets 2HKOed
So I'm thinking it should be like this:
2HKO Zygarde and defensive Landorus-T without dropping its Speed
V-create has a chance to 2hko defensive landorus and has a chance to 2hko any non bulky zyg so it should be fine, Im pretty sure that was intended and even if they were swapped you could still understand it as if the without dropping speed applied to both
I'm supposed to be doing Zygarde revamp, but I read through current Clefable analysis and came up with some thoughts.
Ice Beam may seem like a bizzare option, but from some tour games I have seen Unaware Clefable in stall teams using Ice Beam to keep their team from getting steamrolled by SD + Taunt Gliscor and prevent occasional Rest + Sleep Talk Zygarde from PP stalling Moonblast… (66% to 3HKO but w/e) or just to check Zygarde better in general. Wouldn't it be at least OO worthy?
Also I think there should be a mention about why Unaware Clefable is mandated to use Wish as a recovery option; meaning, I think there won't be a harm to add a line about Soft-Boiled's incompatibility with Unaware.
Ice Beam may seem like a bizzare option, but from some tour games I have seen Unaware Clefable in stall teams using Ice Beam to keep their team from getting steamrolled by SD + Taunt Gliscor and prevent occasional Rest + Sleep Talk Zygarde from PP stalling Moonblast… (66% to 3HKO but w/e) or just to check Zygarde better in general. Wouldn't it be at least OO worthy?
Also I think there should be a mention about why Unaware Clefable is mandated to use Wish as a recovery option; meaning, I think there won't be a harm to add a line about Soft-Boiled's incompatibility with Unaware.
Ice Beam is traditionally used on Magic Guard Clefable, not Unaware. Unaware can't really afford the moveslots between WishTect + Bell being basically mandatory unless you have a second cleric on the team. It's maybe a fringe option if you're using a stall team that gets torn apart by Gliscor and has a second cleric, but generally not worth a mention on an unaware set.
Since Mega Heracross is getting a CM, I would like to highlight some points that maybe need some corrections to adapt to the current metagame:
The set itself is pretty outdated. Pin Missile isn't something that you must have nowadays imo. Maybe with Substitute being slashed first, followed by Pin Missile will solve the problem, considering that Mega Heracross's bulk lets it Subs on almost every passive thing that can't hit it with a Super Effective or a powerful hit, like Toxapex, Defensive Lando-T, Ferrothorn without Gyro Ball, Tangrowth without HP Fire, Gastrodon, Defog Gliscor, etc. Also, Fighting+Rock is a coverage that hits all the things that Heracross needs to anyway.
For the third slot (Close Combat is a must on it, no matter what), Rock Blast could be slashed with Bullet Seed, with the latter being powered by Grassy Terrain, allowing it to 2HKO Clefable and Toxapex without SD, two of its main checks.
On the fourth slot, Earthquake is useless. Toxapex is dealt with SD+Rock Blast or Bullet Seed+Grassy Terrain, and Heatran, Tyranitar and Magearna is already dealt with Close Combat. Swords Dance should be the first move, probably with Pin Missile (altouth forgoing SD is such a waste).
So, the set should be something like:
Heracross @ Heracronite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe or 64 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Def / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Substitute / Pin Missile
- Rock Blast / Bullet Seed
- Swords Dance/ Pin Missile
The second spread is a lot interesting. TPP have used it on his/her (? lol) new team, using Tapu Bulu as a superb partner. The defensive EV's allows Heracross's Subs to endure an Earthquake+HP Ice from Defensive Lando-T in Grassy Terrain, letting it setup on it, while outspeeding max Speed Modest Pelipper.
The "Moves" part is very vague, while still mentioning unmons like Alowak. Also, maybe "Team Options" should be revised too, since it mentions Rotom-W, Skarmory and Choice Scarf Keldeo (dead mons) and there is no mention of Tapu Bulu.
I hope at least something here would be useful!
The set itself is pretty outdated. Pin Missile isn't something that you must have nowadays imo. Maybe with Substitute being slashed first, followed by Pin Missile will solve the problem, considering that Mega Heracross's bulk lets it Subs on almost every passive thing that can't hit it with a Super Effective or a powerful hit, like Toxapex, Defensive Lando-T, Ferrothorn without Gyro Ball, Tangrowth without HP Fire, Gastrodon, Defog Gliscor, etc. Also, Fighting+Rock is a coverage that hits all the things that Heracross needs to anyway.
For the third slot (Close Combat is a must on it, no matter what), Rock Blast could be slashed with Bullet Seed, with the latter being powered by Grassy Terrain, allowing it to 2HKO Clefable and Toxapex without SD, two of its main checks.
On the fourth slot, Earthquake is useless. Toxapex is dealt with SD+Rock Blast or Bullet Seed+Grassy Terrain, and Heatran, Tyranitar and Magearna is already dealt with Close Combat. Swords Dance should be the first move, probably with Pin Missile (altouth forgoing SD is such a waste).
So, the set should be something like:
Heracross @ Heracronite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe or 64 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Def / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Substitute / Pin Missile
- Rock Blast / Bullet Seed
- Swords Dance/ Pin Missile
The second spread is a lot interesting. TPP have used it on his/her (? lol) new team, using Tapu Bulu as a superb partner. The defensive EV's allows Heracross's Subs to endure an Earthquake+HP Ice from Defensive Lando-T in Grassy Terrain, letting it setup on it, while outspeeding max Speed Modest Pelipper.
The "Moves" part is very vague, while still mentioning unmons like Alowak. Also, maybe "Team Options" should be revised too, since it mentions Rotom-W, Skarmory and Choice Scarf Keldeo (dead mons) and there is no mention of Tapu Bulu.
I hope at least something here would be useful!
For Heatran's Choice Scarf set, it mentions that Fire Blast is Heatran's strongest Fire-type move. While it mentions Overheat and dismisses it for lack of consistency (those Special Attack drops are no fun), it fails to mention Magma Storm, which is just as powerful as Fire Blast and is guaranteed to throw in residual damage, albeit only for 5 turns, if it connects... that's a pretty significant "if" considering its accuracy of 75%. So, obviously, Magma Storm isn't a realistic alternative to Fire Blast for the Choice Scarf set, but it feels a little odd that it's not brought up.
It's not brought up because Heatran's Choice Scarf set doesn't aim to trap anything, unlike its utility and z-move set.
e: Why it doesn't aim to trap anything is rather simple, the inability to switch up moves makes it hard to actually beat any of the Pokemon Heatran would normally like to trap. Furthermore, it's a hit and run Pokemon so it would most likely not stay in, making Magma Storm rather useless.
Is it possible to play Hydreigon with Z-Belch on OU i saw some calcultation very interessing about on Clefable, Tapu Bulu, ... who does an monstrous damage it's your turn to judging ?
252 SpA Hydreigon Acid Downpour (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 56 SpD Assault Vest Tapu Bulu: 528-624 (153.9 - 181.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252 SpA Hydreigon Acid Downpour (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 438-516 (111.1 - 130.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Hydreigon Acid Downpour (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Fini: 322-380 (93.8 - 110.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Hydreigon Acid Downpour (190 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 486-572 (142.1 - 167.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Hydreigon Acid Downpour (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 438-516 (111.1 - 130.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Hydreigon Acid Downpour (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Fini: 322-380 (93.8 - 110.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Hydreigon Acid Downpour (190 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 486-572 (142.1 - 167.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Felixx
I'm back.
I'd rather run Specs
252 SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 190-224 (48.2 - 56.8%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 209-246 (53 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(This is assuming you choose to forgoe Flash Cannon/Fire Blast is a safer play)
Specs Fire Blast hits Tapu Bulu really hard already:
252 SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 56 SpD Assault Vest Tapu Bulu: 230-272 (67 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
While also hitting Magearna:
252 SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 154-182 (42.4 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
Z-Belch is a waste of a Z-move. I'd rather run Hoopa-U and give that a Z-move.
I can do an analysis for Hydreigon with Steelium Z, if yes i will write it and i know that he has very nice with the Choice Specs but i prefered Steelium Z it might surprise for Clefable user. Due do that he has a good 125 in base stat on the special attack, if he can play with Steelium Z for pass Clefable easily and Choice Spec for the steel type, on the other hand should i show a replay or not before for a analysis on that i'm going to sleep now.
edit: a calculation with Corkscrew Crash on Clefable
edit: a calculation with Corkscrew Crash on Clefable
Timid: 252 SpA Hydreigon Corkscrew Crash (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 370-436 (93.9 - 110.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
Modest: 252+ SpA Hydreigon Corkscrew Crash (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 406-478 (103 - 121.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Leftovers recovery
Modest: 252+ SpA Hydreigon Corkscrew Crash (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 406-478 (103 - 121.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Leftovers recovery
Hi, we don't plan on giving Z-Move Hydreigon an analysis at this point in time.
Ok no worries ! if it start it up tell me. ;)
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Like I said, Magma Storm isn't as good as Fire Blast for a Choice set. But it does have equal Base Power to Fire Blast, so the analysis needs to bring it up to make it clear that, no, you don't want to be using it.
To caution people against picking the inferior option... duh...
Gliscor analysis:
44 Defense EVs let Gliscor avoid getting KOed by Mega Mawile's Play Rough into Sucker Punch if Toxic Orb has been activated
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 244 HP / 44 Def Gliscor: 220-261 (62.5 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Sucker Punch vs. 244 HP / 44 Def Gliscor: 115-136 (32.6 - 38.6%) -- 91.6% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal
74,1% + 38,6% is 112,7% maximum damage, so the attacks have a 0,2% chance to kill.
Or doesn't this roll exist?
44 Defense EVs let Gliscor avoid getting KOed by Mega Mawile's Play Rough into Sucker Punch if Toxic Orb has been activated
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 244 HP / 44 Def Gliscor: 220-261 (62.5 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Sucker Punch vs. 244 HP / 44 Def Gliscor: 115-136 (32.6 - 38.6%) -- 91.6% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal
74,1% + 38,6% is 112,7% maximum damage, so the attacks have a 0,2% chance to kill.
Or doesn't this roll exist?
You did not account on Poison Heal recovery that heals 1/8 of Gliscor's health at the end of each turn.
power
uh-oh, the game in trouble
No, hes right. 244 HP Gliscor has 352 hit points, and max roll play rough does 261 HP of damage, leaving you at 91 HP. Poison Heal Recovers 44 HP, leaving you at 135 HP; just inside max roll sucker punch, which does 136 HP of damage. Gliscor will die to a double max roll.
However, double max roll is way way more unlikely than either attack simply critting, so theres not a huge reason to change it.
However, double max roll is way way more unlikely than either attack simply critting, so theres not a huge reason to change it.
I see quite a few people mentioning sets like Z-Dig and Z-All out Pummeling Greninja at the moment, but none of them is a set/mentioned in Greninjas analysis. Also, I heard people saying that the fourth AoA Life Orb/E Belt set is bad and doesn't deserve its analysis spot anymore.
So I feel like Greninja might need a analysis revamp
So I feel like Greninja might need a analysis revamp
A full revamp is by no means needed, I (or another badgeholder) can probably fix it with CMS. We've been discussing what the Spikes Greninja set (z-move set) should be.
Well this is awkward.
To make this not a one-liner, on Tapu Bulu's analysis there is a sentence in Other Options mentioning a bulky EV spread to live 2 Mind Plate Lele Psyshocks or Psychics under Grassy Terrain. Considering there is now a bulky SD Bulu set and that Mind Plate isn't mentioned anywhere on Lele's analysis, should this sentence be axed altogether?
I'm translating Magearna's analysis and I see some problems with Shift Gear set, it mentions some unsets like Scarf Nihilego and Scarf Garchomp and kinda implies Trick Room is its best set (which is totally untrue lol) I think this set should receive some changes to update it to actual metagame situation.
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