Unpopular opinions

Sorry to bring up a dead topic, but I do want to point out that Misty does have one contributing factor to her popularity in the west besides First Girl.

Misty is the only one never portrayed as inferior to Ash when it came to battling. While this doesn't sound like much (Ash was literally just starting and she's a gym leader), it set the tone for Misty's character as a mentor and later equal battling partner (when Ash got more experienced. Sorta). Misty was never the protege, she was always a competent and would fight alongside Ash in non-official matches (i.e. Team Rocket) and even compete against him sometimes (Togepi tussle, Whirlpool Islands Arc, the Latias/Latios movie race for example).

Or, at least she started that way. As the Kanto and Johto arcs progressed, it seemed the writers tried to nerf her with Psyduck, giving up Starmie for a while, Togepi (a lot of people blame Togepi for "ruining" Misty's character). Plus she was a little gimped from the get-go, since Goldeen and Horsea were nigh-unusable outside of water or ocean episodes. So thank goodness for Staryu? At least they started to back off of this once Poliwag and Corsola were caught, even eventually giving her a Gyarados.

While "strong fighter" does not equate to good character, it does leave an audience impression. And it's not to say that the other girls never became equals to Ash (I particularly liked May's farewell fight), but they were always catching up with Ash. Misty is that sole exception.

You can argue they tried to pull another Misty with Iris, but giving her by all accounts a baby Axew and an unloyal Excadrill to start with but her squarely in the Ash's protege file. Even in the currently season, the role of the Misty and Brock characters are merged into Clemont. I don't think Serena has ever fought against Ash yet, and I've rarely heard of her assisting in defeating Team Rocket at least (but I might just be not paying as much attention).

TLDR: Misty popularity is inflated due to being the first girl, but she's not JUST the first girl.
Interesting, but if I may play devil's advocate: that was Kanto, when Ash was relatively inexperienced. Since then, he has conquered the Battle Frontier, come oh-so-close in multiple major tournaments, has trained multiple teams across multiple regions, and has managed to succeed with the frail Electric--which lacks its HA by the way, has a crappy movepool in general, and has spent three generations running redundant STABs (not that that matters)--as his ace. Basically, Ash is equivalent to one of those Ace Trainers you'd run into on Victory Road.

Here's the amusing part. His female companions after Misty are, in order: player character/rival (May), player character/professor's assistant (Dawn), eighth Gym* leader and future Champion (Iris), player character/rival (Serena). I can see what you're saying--this ought to be a competent bunch in any right, although Serena's arc is distinctly different from the games, so I'll let that go.

*--Note that the anime uses a modified order of challenge--Roxie, the second Gym in BW2, is the eighth in the anime.
 
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Or, at least she started that way. As the Kanto and Johto arcs progressed, it seemed the writers tried to nerf her with Psyduck, giving up Starmie for a while, Togepi (a lot of people blame Togepi for "ruining" Misty's character). Plus she was a little gimped from the get-go, since Goldeen and Horsea were nigh-unusable outside of water or ocean episodes. So thank goodness for Staryu? At least they started to back off of this once Poliwag and Corsola were caught, even eventually giving her a Gyarados.
To be fair, every time I remember seeing Starmie in the original season, it didn't exactly give a shining contribution. Heck, Staryu was usually more effective in outright battling for her.
 
... and has managed to succeed with the frail Electric--which lacks its HA by the way, has a crappy movepool in general, and has spent three generations running redundant STABs (not that that matters)--as his ace.
Aim for the horn!

My unpopular opinion: I actually dislike the Pokemon anime. It's all a joke to me. I watched it when I was a kid, and when I picked up the games and got hooked on this fantastic gaming franchise, I gave the anime another try. Oh boy, was I disappointed. Though the visuals have improved somewhat over time, from what I've seen, I still think it sucks compared to the visuals of many other anime around. The story itself is simple, too simple, and non-consistent. Perhaps it's just not my genre, I know it's only logical for them to keep it this way. But I am still wishing they would do something like previous 90's shows have done: quit this show, and start a new one with the characters grown up. That way they can appeal to different audiences, make it a bit more interesting, put in a consistent story, better realism, better graphics... I know this wish will forever remain unheard, but it would be so cool. I was really psyched when I saw that animated BW2 trailer for example. It's so different from the actual Pokemon anime...
Right now the only reason I laughed when watching it, was because the jokes were so horrible and cliché that I couldn't help it. I even had a favourite character: Meowth. But once they changed his voice actor... I didn't watch the anime again. I don't think it's worth my time when I can be playing the games in that time (or watching a different anime).
 
Actually, I think most of us can agree that the Anime is objectively poor.
That we can. Note, though, that saying something is poor as a work of art isn't the same as saying you don't enjoy it. You of course see that with the concept of so-bad-it's-good, but there's also the fact that the anime, while certainly guilty of most of the accusations levied on this thread and others, can, on occasion, produce a diamond in the rough. Sometimes you watch because there just might be a genuinely enjoyable (or artistically competent!) episode or arc, or because you can't tear yourself away from something you've watched since you were a kid, or just because why not.

Now, I have what may in fact be an unpopular opinion. Raravian discussed, as have many others, a possible change or aging up of protagonists as a means to revamp the show. While certainly a possibility, I believe this does not mean Ash has to go.

As I posted about earlier, when you put Ash's achievements in context, the result is a trainer who is, in fact, quite skilled not only at battle tactics but at getting the most out of his mons. Make him older and wiser, able to acknowledge a balance between trust and experience on one hand and things like type advantage on the other. Give him companions that can actually hold their own, compelling rivals, an "evil team" if necessary that can actually make life trouble (think of Team Rocket in Unova) and have goals beyond capturing Ash's Pikachu. Let the mons evolve and let Ash actually keep more than six of them. And, most of all for me, make him recognize that sometimes Pikachu, for all his wealth of experience and determination and being Ash's closest partner, is better off on the sidelines.

To summarize, oh there's a ton wrong with the anime. But I do not believe the character of Ash Ketchum is one of those things.
 

Codraroll

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Just one thing: Suggestions on how to improve the Anime is borderline illegal on here, maybe we won't clamp down in it, but don't count on that. But either way, it goes in the Anime thread and not here.
 

brightobject

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u know I've been playing and playing and I've reached the conclusion that I actually don't like the pokemon games (main anyway). They're short, boring, lacking in substance, lacking in plot, graphics, and character development. Maybe I've just outgrown them x-x
 
Not really keen on calling him a DEM, he was heavily foreshadowed for 12 episodes.

If anything I'll call him a meta example of what one could expect on online play for that generation.
 
Actually, I think most of us can agree that the Anime is objectively poor.
HALLELUJAH!

While certainly a possibility, I believe this does not mean Ash has to go.
Actually, scaling up Ash's age was exactly what I was going for :) That way it still ties in with the 'roots' of the series, and I agree that they could definitely make it work.

Just one thing: Suggestions on how to improve the Anime is borderline illegal on here, maybe we won't clamp down in it, but don't count on that. But either way, it goes in the Anime thread and not here.
I hope this last comment wasn't across the border line you have described. Either way, I promise that was the last I'm going to say about this suggestion here :)
 
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u know I've been playing and playing and I've reached the conclusion that I actually don't like the pokemon games (main anyway). They're short, boring, lacking in substance, lacking in plot, graphics, and character development. Maybe I've just outgrown them x-x
UR OPINION IS BAD AND U SHOULD FEEL BAD!

...not! It's perfectly fine to feel that way. Maybe you just need to take a break? Even great stuff gets stale if overplayed.

But there are other reasons to get dissatisfied with the in-game. I've touched on this before, but the main point the developers are trying to deliver the player is the thrill of discovery. So the games are meant to be like a giant bug hunt. Remember taking a glass jar and a butterfly net to your backyard and turning over every rock? That's the "joy" the games are going for, everything else is secondary. Everything else.

Which means that the biggest flaws of discovery games plague the entire series:
1. The internet. Unless I go whole hog to avoid spoilers, I'll never have that same feeling as playing this in '98.
2. Replay-ability. Once you've "discovered" everything (either in-game or out, i.e. internet) there's not as much to do anymore.
3. Difficulty delivered by lack of information. I'll get back to this later.

Another flaw is that while the competitive metagame is really really fun (it's essentially speed chess with monsters), the gap between in-game play and metagame is GIGANTIC. Just imagine how much the in-game difficulty would change if 1. Most trainers had 6 pokemon, 2. Most trainers had type diversity, 3. Most trainers SWITCHED pokemon. Any one of those would dramatically change the in-game.

But it's not that simple. Since the overall goal of pokemon games (in developer terms) is exploration, the games are pretty tough... if you go in blind.

Whitney's Miltank is my ur example of this. She's super hard if you go in blind because she's a snowball-effect boss. If you let the snowball build-up (rollout) then you get plowed over and can't do anything. Which will typically happen if you don't know what rollout does because you have no time to fool around, gotta stop the snowball-effect! But if you know what you're doing (use a rock type to wall it or one of the few fighting types, boost with X-items on the Clefairy phase) then she's nothing special, since you never give her the opportunity to build the snowball. So informed people find her super easy, while newbies find her notoriously hard.

Silver was hard for me because I had no idea what I was doing. I kept switching my in-game team based on what brand new thing I found, which kept my level curve low since trainer experience was leaking to worthless mons like Ledyba. Then I did my research and plotted out what 6 pokemon I'd use in my in-game run and it became super easy. I can only really get a thrill by placing difficulty factors on myself, like a nuzlocke run. Unfortunately, you can't really design a game assuming your audience will be experts going in, so the very premise of Pokemon becomes its undoing the more you learn.

I still think there is some happy medium between "Super easy if you have a plan" and "EVERY GAME IS OU!" But bugger if I know how.
 
Aim for the horn!

My unpopular opinion: I actually dislike the Pokemon anime. It's all a joke to me. I watched it when I was a kid, and when I picked up the games and got hooked on this fantastic gaming franchise, I gave the anime another try. Oh boy, was I disappointed. Though the visuals have improved somewhat over time, from what I've seen, I still think it sucks compared to the visuals of many other anime around. The story itself is simple, too simple, and non-consistent. Perhaps it's just not my genre, I know it's only logical for them to keep it this way. But I am still wishing they would do something like previous 90's shows have done: quit this show, and start a new one with the characters grown up. That way they can appeal to different audiences, make it a bit more interesting, put in a consistent story, better realism, better graphics... I know this wish will forever remain unheard, but it would be so cool. I was really psyched when I saw that animated BW2 trailer for example. It's so different from the actual Pokemon anime...
Right now the only reason I laughed when watching it, was because the jokes were so horrible and cliché that I couldn't help it. I even had a favourite character: Meowth. But once they changed his voice actor... I didn't watch the anime again. I don't think it's worth my time when I can be playing the games in that time (or watching a different anime).
You should check out Pokémon Origins if you haven't. It's pretty good, with it's main flaws being that it's basically a commercial for Mega Evolution, and it's way too short. It's basically what you and many of us are looking for in an anime, I'd guess anyway.

Pokémon Origins

EDIT: It's been a long while since I've posted here and I can't remember whether links like that are okay, if they're not please let me know and I'll remove it.
 

Cresselia~~

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u know I've been playing and playing and I've reached the conclusion that I actually don't like the pokemon games (main anyway). They're short, boring, lacking in substance, lacking in plot, graphics, and character development. Maybe I've just outgrown them x-x
I actually am very dissatisfied by XY main game.
Lack of post game play, lack of stronger Elite 4 members, Battle Maison saves after every single battle (instead of 3 or 7 in BW and B2W2)
Lack of in depth story like what they did to N back in BW.

BW is my favorite Gen after GSC, and I thought Pokemon would finally change to please more adults by adding more story to the games.
But XY was a complete dissappointment.
XY is also extremely easy-- the entire E4 was a joke. It's not to do with EXP share-- I just did the entire E 4 with an untrained Xerneas. I used ONE Pokemon for the E4.
It was so bloody stupid.
 
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Actually, looking at the last two posts...

Pokémon Origins was still pretty bad. Maybe I've just had my experience soured by the horrendous voice acting in the dub but it was honestly a pretty dull adaption aside from a couple of tracks and Mewtwo vs. Charizard. It's at least funny to note that Red has more character development in three episodes than Ash has in almost 20 years lol but I honestly didn't find myself enjoying the special at any point aside from the aforementioned fight. Oh and same goes for the recent Mega Evolution specials

I actually enjoy XY a lot more than BW. Just on pure replayability value at least; since I find both plots to be pretty dire, it's kind of fun to just blast through the game at a ridiculous pace with the Exp. Share with whatever shitmon you can obtain. I was able to complete the game in French for god knows what reason with Delphox, Charizard, Lucario, Aegislash, Aerodactyl and two HM slaves. It was just a run to get the legendary bird but it was so much fun to me. Maybe I'm just really fucking sick of grinding especially when the game itself isn't good enough a reward.
 

Pikachu315111

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I actually enjoy XY a lot more than BW. Just on pure replayability value at least; since I find both plots to be pretty dire, it's kind of fun to just blast through the game at a ridiculous pace with the Exp. Share with whatever shitmon you can obtain. I was able to complete the game in French for god knows what reason with Delphox, Charizard, Lucario, Aegislash, Aerodactyl and two HM slaves. It was just a run to get the legendary bird but it was so much fun to me. Maybe I'm just really fucking sick of grinding especially when the game itself isn't good enough a reward.
It sounds like you more enjoyed the change to the EXP Share than anything else. :P
 
Honestly, while story is good... I'm of the opinion that as long as the competitive keeps going for as long as it can, I'm good. Even if my teambuilding skills are total crap.
 

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Honestly, while story is good... I'm of the opinion that as long as the competitive keeps going for as long as it can, I'm good. Even if my teambuilding skills are total crap.
VGC is nearly all CHALK though. (Cresselia, Heatran, Aegislash, Landorus, Kangaskhan)
Plus, 7 of top 8 players used Mega Kanga.
I wish things can be more balanced out.
 
VGC is nearly all CHALK though. (Cresselia, Heatran, Aegislash, Landorus, Kangaskhan)
Plus, 7 of top 8 players used Mega Kanga.
I wish things can be more balanced out.
I was more referring to metagames like Smogon. Singles is what Pokemon started with, that is what I feel they should focus on. (Of course, that in and of itself is not an unpopular opinion, but I digress)
 
My unpopular opinion of the day: Pokemon Origins is overrated. The pacing was really bad and Red's Charizard hogs all the spotlight, even performing better than Articuno. The crowning moment was Jolteon getting OHKOed by Thundershock by Giovanni's Rhyhorn. I know it was supposed to showcase Giovanni's power but the sheer absurdity of that scene makes me flip the table every single time.

My second unpopular opinion is that most of the people who said it was good must have been because of the Nostalgia Filter of Kanto and the mediocre Pokemon anime which they are used to.
 
My unpopular opinion of the day: Pokemon Origins is overrated. The pacing was really bad and Red's Charizard hogs all the spotlight, even performing better than Articuno. The crowning moment was Jolteon getting OHKOed by Thundershock by Giovanni's Rhyhorn. I know it was supposed to showcase Giovanni's power but the sheer absurdity of that scene makes me flip the table every single time.

My second unpopular opinion is that most of the people who said it was good must have been because of the Nostalgia Filter of Kanto and the mediocre Pokemon anime which they are used to.
Complete and total agreement here. And it was a Thunderbolt, not a Thundershock, but the point stands. And I'm betting their filters were for RBY, probably, the buggy-as-fuck mess that it was. (Benefit of your childhood gen being Gen III: you get to play FRLG, which aside from the soundtrack simply blows away the originals.)
 
Actually, looking at the last two posts...

Pokémon Origins was still pretty bad. Maybe I've just had my experience soured by the horrendous voice acting in the dub but it was honestly a pretty dull adaption aside from a couple of tracks and Mewtwo vs. Charizard. It's at least funny to note that Red has more character development in three episodes than Ash has in almost 20 years lol but I honestly didn't find myself enjoying the special at any point aside from the aforementioned fight. Oh and same goes for the recent Mega Evolution specials
My unpopular opinion of the day: Pokemon Origins is overrated. The pacing was really bad and Red's Charizard hogs all the spotlight, even performing better than Articuno. The crowning moment was Jolteon getting OHKOed by Thundershock by Giovanni's Rhyhorn. I know it was supposed to showcase Giovanni's power but the sheer absurdity of that scene makes me flip the table every single time.

My second unpopular opinion is that most of the people who said it was good must have been because of the Nostalgia Filter of Kanto and the mediocre Pokemon anime which they are used to.
Complete and total agreement here. And it was a Thunderbolt, not a Thundershock, but the point stands. And I'm betting their filters were for RBY, probably, the buggy-as-fuck mess that it was. (Benefit of your childhood gen being Gen III: you get to play FRLG, which aside from the soundtrack simply blows away the originals.)
Sounds like I'm in the minority, which makes mine the unpopular opinion (hooray, I guess)! I've bolded what I agree with and underlined what I don't.

I guess it's what you want out of this sort of entertainment. The dub was bad and pacing horrible, which is why I said "it's basically a commercial for Mega-Evolution" which is its big climax. What I wanted and thought I got was a faithful retelling of the Kanto saga, no matter how rushed. Would I have liked it to have been longer? Hell yeah (20+ episodes like your typical 1-off anime) but given what it was (an advertisement) I'm happy with it. I also tend to not care one bit about things like speed tiers, hidden abilities, etc. when watching a cartoon. While you guys may not be that strict there is evidence of this way of thinking between the two bottom exchanges, and I see a lot of complaints of this nature regarding the main anime. What I think is important is whether they hit the important bits of the story, which I think they did even if they glossed over 90% of it. My last point is this: I don't think I liked it because it was Kanto, I liked it because, apart from the Manga, I think it was the best non-video game representation of the franchise I've seen. I would've liked it just as much if it was Sinnoh, my least favorite game (not necessarily region).

And if you want some nostalgia filter, I think the original gameboy soundtrack blows the FRLG one out of the water. I hate those remasters, especially Pallet Town. I think it sounds a lot better when it sounds like a music box instead of a symphony, which is weird for me because I have a ton of video game remixes that sound like symphonies.
 
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And if you want some nostalgia filter, I think the original gameboy soundtrack blows the FRLG one out of the water. I hate those remasters, especially Pallet Town. I think it sounds a lot better when it sounds like a music box instead of a symphony, which is weird for me because I have a ton of video game remixes to should like symphonies.
Totally agreeing there. The chiptunes of the originals are simply awesome, nostalgia filter or no. Here's the thing, though: I can live with FRLG's music (some of it's actually grown on me), but I cannot live with Gen I gameplay. And how something sounds isn't as important as how it actually plays.
 

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I like Origins when it started. It gave me what I was looking for, an adaption of the game. Yes I understand things change between adaptions and I'm okay with that, it's just when they start going too off track I start having a bit of a problem. For example I have no problem with Brock giving Red advice before arriving to Pewter City. It feels like something a Gym Leader would do; like Brock was on a stroll when he noticed two trainers battling, saw mistakes Red did resulting him losing, so after the battle Brock goes up to Red and gives him some advice. It not only provides Red with a lesson to help understand why he lost but also sets up Brock as an experienced trainer so when its revealed he's a Gym Leader he just doesn't feel like a guy just created to be a boss. Heck I have no problem with the "over" focus on Charizard because its Red's Starter. I don't know about all of you but my main Pokemon is usually my Starter.

So at the start I was liking it... then those straying away from the story started to happen. First off Red not needing to go to Silph Co. to get the Silph Scopes to go through Pokemon Tower. Now I understood why they did it and for the Pokemo Tower story it works... problem is they still needed Red to get involved with Silph Co.. So if Red wasn't going to Silph Co. to get the Silph Scopes how was he going to get involved? Well they have a secretary escape Silph Co. with Red and Blue's help who explains Team Rocket took over. Okay, I guess that works but this sounds more like a situation for the police. Like with Pokemon Tower people were too afraid to go in due to the ghosts, but here this is a hostile takeover which is something the police can handle.
But wait! We gotta have Blue act like a jerk and not want to help which I felt was taking his character trait way too far. Blue is a jerk, yes, and he does see Team Rocket as a more of a nuisance than a real threat. But still I don't think he would just walk away going "not my problem", I'd more imagine it would be "Red, this isn't our responsibility. I'm getting the police". You can then have Red argue there won't be here in time so he's going in but still it would actually make Blue look better and honestly more reasonable.
But yeah, felt that getting Red into Silph Co. felt a bit sloppy since they changed the original reason he went there.

I also had no problem with Mr. Fuji giving Red the Mega Stone (though its a bit too coincidental how he just so happened to have a Charizardite X and Red's Starter was luckily a Charizard. Actually if anything wouldn't Mr. Fuji have a Mewtwonite?). It was meant to advertise the new games so whatever, and now if they did ever remake Gen I again we now know when we'll be getting the ability to Mega Evolve in those games. :P

Then we come to Viridian Gym. Oh boy, Viridian Gym. So first off Giovanni using one Pokemon and it being a RhyHORN is BS. Not a Rhydon, but its pre-evolution. And it then goes to knock out five of Red's Pokemon despite them using moves that have a type advantage and it using moves that aren't (the above mentioned Thunderbolting Jolteon. Jolteon knew Double Kick but that didn't do anything to it). What was wrong with a "full" battle? Just montage it and make sure to show Giovanni getting into the battle and remembering when he became a trainer. Also I'm not so sure how I feel about Giovanni's "redemption". On one hand it makes more sense why Giovanni would dissolve Team Rocket and want to start over as he was reminded of his passion for being a trainer. But on the other hand now the storyline for GS doesn't make quite as much sense (it could still work I suppose, but they would need to rewrite it as Origin's Giovanni has no reason to return to Team Rocket so it wouldn't make much sense for them to beg him to come back). Also once again Giovanni started out with a Charmander, really? What was wrong with giving him like a Nidoran male (I personally always say Nidoking being his signature Pokemon because NidoKING).

I really had no problem with the Mewtwo fight, maybe Red could have used all the Legendaries Birds and have them put up a decent fight but hey they have to advertise Mega Evolution so whatever; still resulted in a cool fight (and I liked Origin's Mewtwo Theme). Also they confirmed Mr. Fuji was responsible for Mewtwo's creation which was neat.
 
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Totally agreeing there. The chiptunes of the originals are simply awesome, nostalgia filter or no. Here's the thing, though: I can live with FRLG's music (some of it's actually grown on me), but I cannot live with Gen I gameplay. And how something sounds isn't as important as how it actually plays.
Fair enough. I do like the updated games, don't get me wrong, I was just disappointed with the music. That's why I called it nostalgia because in only two instances (FR, HG) have I felt that the originals were vastly superior musically.
 
Reading this made me realize that I mostly watched Origins for nostalgia and the great animation.

I hate to bring this back up, but...
I see May's problem as something because they kept saying that, like Ash, she was TEN YEARS OLD! Man, her breasts were larger than all my exs', and they ranged in age from 16-22. Of course when the series first aired I had no problems with them, but then it hit me how young she was supposed to be...
When I was in sixth grade, there was one girl who had breasts that would make most grown women jealous. Even May was put to shame, so her breast size isn't outside the realm of possibility.
 
Fair enough. I do like the updated games, don't get me wrong, I was just disappointed with the music. That's why I called it nostalgia because in only two instances (FR, HG) have I felt that the originals were vastly superior musically.
I haven't played FRLG, but I LOVED putting on the GB Sounds in HGSS. That was really such an awesome addition to the games. I mean, I like the regular HGSS soundtrack as well, but the GB Sounds just really satisfy my inner kid self and it sounds so epic. It reminds me of how grand Pokemon used to feel, and still makes me go 'awww' at it for reminding me of how I used to be. It's difficult to explain, but... yes. NOSTALGIA.
 

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