I'll post some comments:
jenigmat429 said:
Though I agree with you. The hardest part about using Rhyperior for me is the fact that Rhyperior and both Hippowdon and Tyranitar share a lot of key weaknesses. While Rhyperior can easily tank a lot of even super effective hits, it because a lot easier for something like Skymin to gain a critical advantage by having a huge advantage over a third of your team. Though I can attest to the strengths of your Substitute set; I used something similar once and it caught many teams off guard. People are so used to dismissing Rhyperior that they don't realise that the pre-DP hype had a reason behind it: fantastic stats and a great ability with the Sandstorm boost is just amazing.
You are correct. But I'd like to point out that overlapping weaknesses haven't stopped others before. Think of it like the Double Dragon theory in a way: why would you use two very similair Dragons? Because of the power that they have. Think of this similairly. I will admit, Ice is one of the few moves that Tyranitar isn't weak to. But the massive weaknesses never stopped a lot of people from using him. Rhyperior is usually tossed from the equation because of the nasty x4 weakness to Water and Grass. But here is where I'm going to ask you: have you stopped using Gyarados and Zapdos because of their Stealth Rock weakness? What about Shaymin-S and Zapdos? I could rant all day that many team combinations have a weakness to said move. You have to look at the bigger picture though, which is a problem for some. And about the Shaymin comment: Shaymin-S doesn't like switching into Stone Edge from either Tyranitar or Rhyperior, hates Heat Wave from Zapdos, and fears Ice Beam from Vaporeon. Shaymin-S might be causing switches, but other than the usual revenge kill, its not coming in very soon either.
latios315 said:
rhyperoir is a beast with trick romm but without it he's rather meh he just has too many weakness even with solid rock surfs hurt, usually a OHKO and shaymins seed flare will always OHKO
This is where I become extremely adamant about my statement. And usually, its these people that lose to me quickly. Besides, we already know that Rhyperior can't take these things. Thanks for stating the obvious. Tyranitar can't take a Close Combat either, so should we stop using him because of that? What about Shaymin-S and its NASTY amount of weaknesses? Ice, Fire, Rock and Flying. 3 of these type of moves are VERY common. Flying is somewhat common I'll admit though, from Togekiss that is. Because Rhyperior has weaknesses shouldn't mean that it should stop you from using him. Switching is for a reason, you know.
Venom said:
It's a pretty good pokemon, I can say it because of the testing I have done, Rhyperior under sand is a awesome tank, despite his weaknesses. And I have been using that defensive core for about months, having great success with it, but I guess somebody else figured it out already :(
Silly Venom. Other than Vaporeon, its also an excellent offensive core too. Though, I kind of wish Vaporeon would do a little more offensively. He's great though for what its intended to do. Should use more Special Attack EVs myself.
Bologo said:
*Interesting Calculation*
Wow, I didn't even know that. That's really cool how he can survive something that is THAT deadly though.
Bogmire said:
I tried using rhyperior recently and am pretty impressed with it as a tank. its defenses and ability are so ridiculous that impish max/max rhyperior has a slight chance at surviving an adamant +5 earthquake from tyranitar. it also survives a SD jolly LO close combat from lucario.
I believe this quote entirely. Many people have mistaken Rhyperior to be a wall. But used as a tank, offensively, or in between is the way to use him. Its definitely quite a threat with the massive Defense boost from Impish. Very versatile.
dr4g0n said:
Physically, Rhyperior is quite the tank, but I would still advise against using it as a general tank. The only special attacks it can take with ease is the electric ones.
I just showed you many Special Attacks that Rhyperior can take. Come on, these are the kind of posts that sort of tick me off.
Peachfuzz said:
This thread reminds me of the pre-DP Rhyperior hype threads that made it look unstoppable once the Special Defense boost to rock types in Sandstorm was introduced. Those threads are fun to read.
The Substitute set looks like an absolutely amazing wall breaker. Walls with weak attack stats can't do a thing if Toxic Spikes aren't up. Earthquakes from physical walls who don't invest in attack EVs don't do much, and Skarmory takes heavy damage from Swords Danced Stone Edges. It also outspeeds most of those walls. One of the best Tyranitar switch-ins too, short of Hidden Power [Grass].
Of course, since the beginning of DP, haven't we concluded that, although on paper it looks unstoppable, in practice it fails, as the metagame is too fast and too hard hitting for it?
I won't knock you down quite yet because you do bring a couple of good points that I would address. The problem was people didn't see Rhyperior as a whole and what it was capable of doing. Many people thought that Rhyperior could take 1000 hits and such and still survive and to leave it in against Starmie and such. People didn't see Rhyperior offensively and what it can do. To take such an ass Speed and to improve it to Shaymin-S at the very least is more than impressive.
Stathakis said:
imo since every team I make ends up with cbazumarill and sdluke and the like I never really liked rhyperior, simply because I never had trouble with it. if I were to run a set, it would prolly be rockpolish, though, seeing as usually people rely on outspeeding the behemoth to beat it, making the rp set thoroughly evil to today's metagame. I'd probably never even consider the subsd set lol.
Dude, I know you're better than this. I can understand why you may not use it, but don't scoff it off so easily. If you can control how to use him, it is more than deadly to a team.
MythTrainerInfinity said:
I've been using a Sub/EQ/Rock Slide/Fire Punch set and it basically lets you rape Bronzongs and Forretress with still keeping a Sub up. It can come in on Scizor too.
Thought that might be of some interest :)
Fire Punch is cool on it, but I don't think Bronzong is going to enjoy Megahorn (which I have personally used) and Forretress can't stand too many Earthquakes either. Actually, its sort of how I started off with the first set I listed. Except I thought Swords Dance might be worthy to try out, and... well, you get the picture.
darknessmalice said:
Rhyperior is awesome. But he has two main problems.
To be a special wall, he needs SS support. But he shares common weaknesses with TTar and Hippowdon.
Very tough competition. As a physical wall, there's Gliscor and Hippowdon with self-recovery, Donphan with Rapid Spin, Swampert with better typing. As a physical attacker, there's Scizor who can SD and still attack first, Metagross who can Rock Polish and reach higher stats, and Tar with CB Pursuit.
I find the set with the least competition is CB Rhyperior, because only Medicham and Ramparados outmatch him in Att., and they're so much more vulnerable than Rhyperior.
Other than the Choice Band statement, you just stated what NOT to do with Rhyperior to begin with: wall. And besides, I wouldn't count Gliscor that great of a wall since how common is it again?
Chris is me said:
I fail to see why I should use Polish Rhyperior over Metagross, personally, who can reach higher speeds with Adamant (and thus more Attack). I guess the typing's different, but Metagross generally does better as "bulky thing that goes fast all of the sudden" for me.
Here is why:
- Better STABs
- Solid Rock at least buffers Bullet Punch Scizor to prevent an OHKO.
- Easily can use Substitute if necessary.
- Sandstorm boosting his Special Defense to take Lucario Vacuum Waves lol.
Now I'll give you credit because Agility Metagross is quite the threat himself. But I wouldn't run home and say that Steel is the greatest STAB on earth (granted, Bullet Punch Scizor would argue differently, but there's more to it than that). Rhyperior does fine with two STABs while Metagross has to sometimes resort to 3 (or Explosion) to take other threats out.
SoT said:
I've recently started using the Sub SD Rhyperior mentioned above. I was iffy about it at first, but after using it for a while, and getting a feel for it, I believe it's one of the best decisions I have ever made. The raw power this guy brings to the table is amazing, and after a SD, not to many things stand a chance. Yeah, everyone says he's to slow, but that's what I like about him. You don't know how many Skarms I have killed while they roost on me because of this lack of speed. Yeah you can say that is what hurts it the most, but that's what I believe is the beauty of using this guy. Not anyone can use this, it actually takes quite amount of skill, when to set up, when to attack, when to sub stall. It's all risk and reward, and that's why I beleive it's my kind of pokemon. =D
All in all, I believe he is a very good pokemon, in should be given some thought when building teams. He is a great offensive threat, and is one hell of a defensive monster. Rhyperior for OU!
SoT, you have taken the very words out of my mouth. I shall add this to the OP along with Bologo's comment about surviving Seed Flare.
Lee said:
Heh, I used to run that set a lot but I used Megahorn over Fire Punch. Megahorn easily OHKO's Celebi and deals hefty damage to shit like Cresselia and Slowbro. You'll still always beat standard Bronzong and Forretress as Gyro Ball doesn't break your Sub and they'll be easily worn down by repeated attacks.
I used to love it because people would always try to beat Rhyperior with prediction. They'd expect me to EQ and throw out their Gengar or Celebi, and promptly shit themself when Rhyperior throws up a Substitute and proceeds to OHKO them from behind it. Good fun. :)
I've never used one of those SpD heavy versions but I remember once when I hit a Rhyperior with Hidden Power Grass from my Jolteon, foolishly expecting to get an OHKO or at least do 80-90%. I shit myself when it did less than 40%. I actually ran off to Team Builder to check I hadn't accidentally given him HP Ice or something. That guy is frigging tough.
Ah, I remember back in my Swords Dance thread you talking about using something very similair to that. A good set, may I add. I'll fix those calculations again (sorry about that guys).
Shinryu said:
I thought it was proven long ago that Rhyperior was overhyped...
Personally, I think he's best at CB with a simple 252 Atk/252 HP, just throw him into something he resists and let him OHKO or dent whatever comes in. With Rock Polish, he could probably do what Agiligross of old did.
I'd have to disagree though on the EVs. Max Speed is better for Rhyperior despite what many think. It prevents Skarmory from PP stalling Stone Edge. But CB Rhyperior with Aqua Tail shows massive power that I can attest to myself.
ChouToshio said:
The first post pretty much mentioned my only criticism, that being that I would feel awkward running Rhyperior and Tyranitar on the same team (I'm not about to use Hippowdon any time soon).
Outside that though I have to agree that Rhyperior is a terrific pokemon. I've faced the substitute set before and despite having Gyarados, Mild Infernape (grass knot does not 1hko), Flygon (who resists both stabs) and Scizor on my team, I'd say 75% of the times I've fought it I had to sacrifice a pokemon to it before taking it down. It's that tough.
Again, I've addressed the first part of your post. But just showing how hard it CAN be to take down when its under the Substitute (did I face you or something?)
BTW, I'll fix that post about Cresselia Psychic and such. For some reason I wasn't wide awake with that part (but it shouldn't break the Substitute anyway).
Continuing on
MS said:
I am using it, thanks for ruining it for me Colonel M :(.
But yeah I've found that by far, the most effective set is the Rock Polish (Megahorn as fourth move) one. Late game, its ability to take out slightly weakened threats and such is second to none, i love it and have been scoffing at all those who call Rhyperior "useless".
You're welcome. ^_^ I'll add this for the Rock Polish set in the OP too.
Darklord said:
The problem with Rhyperior is that there are other pokemon who can do the same things better.
As a bulky ground it is outclassed by the likes of Hippowdon, Gliscor, Swampert and maybe even Donphan. The former two have a reliable instant recovery move while Swampert only has one weakness and Donphan has Ice Shard to scare away those annoying Skymins.
As an attacker, I'd rather use Lucario for swords dancing and Metagross for Rock Polishing. Those two are a lot more frightening once they set up. Lucario has higher speed and the movepool to hurt pretty much anything while Metagross has few weaknesses and the tempting Explosion.
Not to say that Rhyperior isn't good, but I certainly believe there are better options out there.
Hm... Lucario may have the movepool, but the only advantages that I see are its Speed and Extremespeed. After a Swords Dance, Rhyperior can nearly OHKO Skarmory, Hippowdon, AND WILL OHKO Gliscor with relative ease. These are the best physical walls in this generation too. Lucario can't OHKO Gliscor without Ice Punch, Hippowdon and Skarmory can survive Jolly Lukes (becoming more common too). And by the way, I think Donphan sucks overall despite having Ice Shard. Too weak. =(
skiddle said:
I like the Swords Dance Life Orb set myself. Absolutely annihilates stall teams, switching into Blissey with impunity, then destroying everything with a 1081 attack Earthquake or Stone Edge. It can OHKO Swampert and almost OHKO Skarmory after the boost.
I used this guy originally. And yes, it is a friggin monster against Stall teams, especially if you can either a) provide paralysis support or b) Agility boost. And both of those are quite possible.
Other than the last post I think with ap, I covered pretty much what I wanted to cover.
