Yeah Froslass has a lot of things that make it somewhat broken in UU. Firstly, it can Spike and spinblock; it's fast so it can quickly get the hazards up. Froslass also has the advantage of spinblocking, especially BulkyLass, of which I've used and love. It does not help that UU has shitty spinners at best; Blastoise, Claydol, and Hitmontop are all we have. Hitmontop and Blastoise have no use outside of Rapid Spinning, and Claydol is just plain pitiful. Maybe Kabutops and Cryogonal can beat Froslass one-on-one, but that's not anything to say against a Froslass ban, since the fact that you're going down to RU to get a spinner to beat it is really saying something. Other ways to prevent hazards such as Xatu are not gonna enjoy eating an Ice Beam to the face, same with Crobat and stuff. Sure, you can use fast Taunts such as Crobat or Azelf to stop it, but an Ice Beam or Shadow Ball is certainly gonna hurt. Taunt is also something. Then there's also Destiny Bond, which pretty much guarantees with Froslass you're getting a free kill. Froslass can quickly just D-Bond after its Spikes have been done, and once it dies having done its job, it will take down something with it. Also Cursed Body is really annoying, if it activates and you're running a choiced Pokemon while it spikes, Froslass is guaranteed yet another layer. If Struggle kills it, yeah you're still at a disadvantage with your team sufficiently weakened. Don't forget- two sets are possible, SashLass being a great suicide lead guaranteeing itself at least two layers of Spikes a match against slower teams, and BulkyLass too can be decent, setting up Spikes with almost as much ease while having the advantage. Froslass is literally a defining force of the tier, and is the epitome of Spikes in UU, even moreso than Roserade and Qwilfish (and Scolipede), the other good Spikers in UU. The other thing is that Froslass is so good, it almost overshadows Qwilfish, Roserade, Scolipede, etc. giving them trouble finding a teamslot. I'm not sure if it's entirely ban worthy, but it definitely has a large impact on the tier.
Changing topics real quick, does anyone think Victini should get banned? Am I the only one that thinks once the set is exposed, it is rather easy to play around?
While I agree that Victini has some surprise value, you have to take into consideration that Mew and Kingdra also have massive surprise value. Mew can run just about any set-- and rather effectively. I've seen Magic Coat leads to Mono-attacking boosting sets--WITH BATON PASS (This is too good actually), but I don't see it broken. Kingdra, it can be special or physical also! If I switch in Slowbro expecting a DD or Outrage and have to eat up a Draco Meteor, Slowbro will be decimated after some hazards. Likewise, if I see no item and assume Specs (Could be Lum or Chesto), and I switch my Umbreon only to have to fight up against a DD set, it could mean certain death.Well that's the problem. I do agree that once the set is exposed, you can definitely play around Victini. However, it's that 1-2 turns where it's not exposed that it's the most dangerous. You can switch Rhyperior in expecting V-Create or U-turn, and then eat a Grass Knot. Or, you could switch Snorlax or Slowking in expecting a Blue Flare, and instead eat a CB V-Create or Bolt Strike. It doesn't help that most special and/or mixed sets also run U-turn or V-Create to bluff for the first few turns anyways. (U-turn because it's good, and V-create because it's just that obscenely powerful.) It's kind of similar to Salamence in DPP OU, where once you figure out its set, you could beat it. That turn it initially hits the field, however, you didn't know whether to expect Dragon Dance or Draco Meteor, and you could pay pretty dearly for it.
I think Victini is impossible to switch into. Its not necessarily that its versatile, like Mew or Kingdra, but its just got two, really powerful sets. Its average attacking stats are more than compensated by its high powered moves (even access Blue Flare and Focus Blast is a bitch, to say nothing of V-Create). To compare it to other top threats, Kingdra can at least be stalled and phazed and has a few Pokemon that can switch into the majority of sets. Mew lacks a 120 Base STAB, Victini rocks a 130 and 180. To comment on your comparison to Raikou, the difference between Mixed Tini and Expert Belt Raikou: Expert Belt Raikou isn't a nuke. You're dealing with an unboosted Thunderbolt as the best spamming move. Mixed Tini dishes out massive damage with V-create, while being an excellent lure for Rhyperior and Swampert. And Special Tini is a force to be reckoned with, base 100 Speed is far from slow, and a LO boosted 130 base STAB move is far from weak. Besides, Special Tini gets its power from a wide Special movepool which makes it pretty hard to wall on its own. Nothing can counter both Special and Physical Tini, both sets are very powerful, and I think that's a pretty strong case for banning it.Ace, your thoughts on Victini?
While I agree that Victini has some surprise value, you have to take into consideration that Mew and Kingdra also have massive surprise value. Mew can run just about any set-- and rather effectively. I've seen Magic Coat leads to Mono-attacking boosting sets--WITH BATON PASS (This is too good actually), but I don't see it broken. Kingdra, it can be special or physical also! If I switch in Slowbro expecting a DD or Outrage and have to eat up a Draco Meteor, Slowbro will be decimated after some hazards. Likewise, if I see no item and assume Specs (Could be Lum or Chesto), and I switch my Umbreon only to have to fight up against a DD set, it could mean certain death.
Victini takes out Rhyperior, yes, with a GRASS TYPE MOVE. Expert Belt Raikou does pretty much the same thing, and that has surprise value. A good player WILL be able to play around Victini. If it's the special set, it lacks the speed and raw power to do major damage to anything OTHER than PHYSICAL counters. It's pretty ridiculous that people are complaining about how Grass Knot does work on Rhyperior. The reason thaty Rhyperior is even used is mostly due to the fact that it has Solid Rock, SRs, phazing, and checks Zapdos and Raikou without HP Grass, something that is important. The 2 hardest hitting electric types are pretty much stopped cold without HP Grass. Rhyperior was NOT meant to check Special Victini. Snorlax takes hits for days and can poo on it with Body Slam.
There's something bugging me about what people are saying about Vicinti here...
While, yes, it is true that Victini is at its maximum damage potential during those first few turns when your opponent doesn't know what set it is, it isn't at all like Kingdra/Mew in the sense that the danger factor reduces by a metric fuckton once the set is revealed. Each individual set already has a very limited amount of safe switch-ins, and this part does not go away once the surprise factor is gone. Think about it, what exactly do you switch into Blue Flare / Grass Knot / Focus Blast / Psyshock Vicini? Snorlax needs to be in tip-top shape to take this on, because Psyshock + Focus Blast does a lot of damage (Psyshock: 31.58 - 37.62%; Focus Blast: 41.24 - 48.69% vs standard Classic CurseLax). The more used set (by good players, anyway), CB, doesn't even stand a chance (Psyshock + Focus Blast is nearly a guaranteed 2HKO after SR. Umbreon is a good answer, and so is Slowking, but that's about it really. The CB set is so absurdly powerful that even its best switchins have to be at high HP to tank 2 hits (CB V-Create does 34% minimum to 248/0 Rhyperior and if Slowbro switches into a Bolt Strike once, then it gets 2HKO'd by V-Create the next time, despite Regenerator).
And this doesn't even begin to cover the other potential sets, like Trick Room / Mixed...
Yes, this is an excellent Baton Pass recipient. Keep the set the way it is. Stored Power has tremendous power after receiving STAB, LO boost, and +2 SpA/SpD/Spe from Venomoth.Finally, I'd like to flesh out my earlier statement of how good of a recipient of baton pass Victini is. It can make tremendous use of both Quiver Dances and Shell Smashes, which allow it to not only outspeed every scarfer in the tier at +2, but also just demolish everything in its sight.
@ Life Orb
EVs: 180 Atk/252 SpA/76 Speed (Outspeeds Jolly Scarf Mienshao after +2)
Trait: Victory Star
Rash Nature
- Stored Power
- V-Create
- Bolt Strike
- Substitute
At this stage, there are 3 pokemon in the entire tier who have a chance of living an attack after Stealth Rocks. Defensive Cress, who has a 12.6% chance to survive, RestTalk Snorlax, who has a 67.5% chance to survive, and Quagsire, who takes like 40-45%.
Obviously, these pokemon are extremely rare in UU, and Cress, which is probably the most common among all of them, can't even do anything in return. If you really wanted to deal with Quagsire you could run Grass Knot, but I prefer Substitute for blocking Sucker Punches from Bisharp/Honchkrow.
When a pokemon can not only effectively run sets from both offensive spectrums with any choice item but can also run very successful gimmick sets with Trick Room and Stored Power, you know that that pokemon is something that deserves to be suspected.
I've used Durant before with decent success, opting for a Lum Berry over Life Orb. I feel like Durant needs both STABs to be effective, and I think I ended up using Rock Slide over Superpower to be able to hit Fire and Flying types. It has a really nice speed stat and very few things can take a hit from it once it HCs. In my opinion however it really suffers from 4MSS.252+ SpA Life Orb Sharpedo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 226-266 (66.27 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 175-208 (51.31 - 60.99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO