CAP 8 CAP 8 - Part 5c - Secondary Ability Poll 4

[cyberzero]

Our Pokemon so far:

Name: Neglected Ability

Description: This pokemon will have an ability [or two] that is currently undervalued (but possibly very helpful) in the metagame but isn't used because the other pokemon with this ability don't have the stats or movepool to make it work.

Type: Electric / Dragon
Style Bias: Somewhat Defensive
Build Bias: Mixed, possibly Special
Main Ability: Shield Dust
Stats: 108 HP/60 Atk/118 Def/112 Sp Atk/70 Sp Def/80 Spe


A number of Neglected Abilities have been decided on, but according to the results of the previous Secondary Ability Poll, we require another one. The abilities that can be chosen from are:

Trace
Static

Make sure to read through the thread before making a vote. Happy voting!
Discussion is encouraged, as well as a readthrough of this discussion thread. When posting in click poll threads, be sure to follow the following guidelines. Posts that add nothing to the thread are not allowed. There is no reason to broadcast your vote to everyone; this adds nothing to the thread, and if people really wanted to see your vote, they can check the poll themselves. Posts like "I voted for ___ ..." or "I voted for ___ because I ..." are unallowed. Better is "Vote for ___ because ...". These posts must be backed up by competitive reasoning, or else they will be deleted and/or infracted.

 

[Coronis]

Trace is best left to Porygon 2, I'd rather NSA but Static is better than trace.

 

[reyscarface]

Well, since No Secondary Ability lost, Static is the way to go.

Static gives a nice chance of paralizing, and while its not that good, its still useful in some situations.

Trace, IMO, isnt a neglected ability at all. Look at Porygon2 for example, whats the reason its used as a Gyarados/Salamence/Heatran counter? Trace it is. Also, with the typing of this CAP, Trace seems rather redundant.

 

[Janenmori]

Trace is the way to go for me. Only two pkmn get it for pity's sake. If that is not neglected tell me what is.

 

[Coronis]

Eh, neglected is meaning that the pokemon that have the ability aren't used much because the pokemon is essentially a bad pokemon, and its ability doesn't work well with it. However on the right pokemon it could, and Porygon-2 is almost OU i believe so Trace isn't really that neglected.

 

[bearzly]

Voted for Static. In my eyes, Trace seems like a primary ability; one that would largely detract from Shield Dust which was voted the primary. NSA would have been OK, but Static isn't going to have a dramatic effect on the way the pokemon is used. Plus, it's nice to have a second choice.

 

[RotationalBasis]

Voted for Static. In my eyes, Trace seems like a primary ability; one that would largely detract from Shield Dust which was voted the primary. NSA would have been OK, but Static isn't going to have a dramatic effect on the way the pokemon is used. Plus, it's nice to have a second choice.

Agreed. A set using trace would probably have to be vastly different from one using Shield Dust or Static.

 

[Veedrock]

Trace is the way to go for me. Only two pkmn get it for pity's sake. If that is not neglected tell me what is.

Check it:

[B]Smogon University:[/B]
|   51 | Porygon2   |  15699 |    3.21 |
|   98 | Gardevoir  |   4708 |    0.96 |
Total: 20407
 
|   85 | Electrode  |   5708 |    1.17 |
|  133 | Raichu     |   2512 |    0.51 | 
|  136 | Pikachu    |   2451 |    0.50 |
|  153 | Manectric  |   1748 |    0.36 |  
|  156 | Ampharos   |   1652 |    0.34 | 
Total: 14071
 
 
[B]CAP (because some people will bitch without end if I don't include this):[/B]
|   58 | Porygon2   |     31 |    1.56 |
|   70 | Gardevoir  |     23 |    1.16 | 
Total: 54
 
|   89 | Electrode  |     12 |    0.60 |
|  160 | Pikachu    |      2 |    0.10 |
|  179 | Raichu     |      1 |    0.05 |
Total: 15

Total Static usage on Smogon doesn't even match Porygon2's near OU usage, let alone added with Gardevoir. Which one is neglected again?

EDIT: And like 1059860 I suspect shenanigans. "Oh well."

 

[hsb39]

Voted for Static, I don't find Trace to be neglected.

 

[1059860]

I just went through the previous poll's voters...

Quite a few are accounts recently registered and has 0 or very few numbers of posts. It almost seems like the accounts were dupes created to mislead polls. >_< (Just a hypothesis...)

Anyways, I vote for Trace for the whole reason to vote against Static since this Metagame has enough haxes at it is. I don't think that we need another ability that is more depended on luck, as this thing has pretty nice defense. It can switch into a good amount of Physical-contact attacks and paralyze the user the same chances that a Thunder can miss outside of rain (30%)... When it's down to last resort, which interesting games often lead to, a loss due to misfortune of paralysis from Static is so unwanted, especially during a situation where you can win.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Trace is best left to Porygon 2

What makes Porygon2 a better user of Trace than any other Pokemon? Also, already have a neglected ability on CAP8 (Shield Dust), mission has already been completed. I'm not seeing anything within the concept statement stating the idea that if it had two abilities both have to be considered "neglected".

 

[Deck Knight]

I just went through the previous poll's voters...

Quite a few are accounts recently registered and has 0 or very few numbers of posts. It almost seems like the accounts were dupes created to mislead polls. >_< (Just a hypothesis...)

If they did they will get blasted with a ban just like everyone else who has ever tampered with a poll. We run a tight ship around here and we have moderators and longtime users who check into these sorts of things, your delusional hypothesis aside.

Anyways, I vote for Trace for the whole reason to vote against Static since this Metagame has enough haxes at it is. I don't think that we need another ability that is more depended on luck, as this thing has pretty nice defense. It can switch into a good amount of Physical-contact attacks and paralyze the user the same chances that a Thunder can miss outside of rain (30%)... When it's down to last resort, which interesting games often lead to, a loss due to misfortune of paralysis from Static is so unwanted, especially during a situation where you can win.

"HAX" is the famous last word of the perennial loser whose stat-up sweeper got hit with a a CH from Stone Edge at an inopportune moment. The overwhelming majority of hax in CAP is Serene-Grace flinch-hax, and paralysis on the flinchaxer puts a stop to that for your entire team, at least concerning your opponent.

Trace is one of the more luck-dependent abilities, you may end up with something useless a significant portion of the time. Porygon2 works in large part because it has Recover and all hits on it are neutral. Trace isn't going to work so well for Elec/Dragon considering the pokemon Porygon2 uses Trace to counter are either already countered hard regardless (Gyarados) or are not pokemon you want to take a huge risk on (Heatran w EP and Salamence). There is some application for Flygon, but essentially its equal with Static punishing U-turn and Trace punishing Earthquake.

Trace is a lot riskier on CAP8 than Porygon2 simply because most of the things Trace is known for being useful against have moves that aren't very kind to Electric/Dragon typing.

 

[zarator]

I voted Trace, basically because I hate Static. I just hope that, after another tool to hinder offensive teams (in this case through bulk and paralysis) we actually turn to create a sweeper or a wallbreaker (Really, apart from Syclant and Stratagem, we have not created a single sweeper worth its name - and dont come to tell me Kitsunoh because without even a stat-up move, he cant call himself a sweeper in my book).

Well, lets hope for something actually offensive in CAP9

 

[Harro237]

I voted for Static, because i feel it is an actual neglected ability.

 

[Objection]

Well I'm glad to see the final showdown doesn't have NSA as an option, since like I said before, more options = better unless the options could be gamebreaking (eg, Speed Boost on CAP8).

 

[Zerix]

*sigh* I guess since No Secondary Ability didn't make it through I have to vote for Static to make sure Trace doesn't either... Trace isn't really neglected in my opinion and it would most likely overshadow Shield Dust.

 

[Flounder]

I voted Trace, basically because I hate Static. I just hope that, after another tool to hinder offensive teams (in this case through bulk and paralysis) we actually turn to create a sweeper or a wallbreaker (Really, apart from Syclant and Stratagem, we have not created a single sweeper worth its name - and dont come to tell me Kitsunoh because without even a stat-up move, he cant call himself a sweeper in my book).

Well, lets hope for something actually offensive in CAP9

we generally haven't created sweepers in the past because OU simply didn't need them.

Why do you need to add something highly offensive when OU already has a multitude of great sweepers such as Alakazam, Heatran, Jolteon, Infernape, Kingdra, Scizor, Lucario, Metagross, Starmie, and so forth?

Voted Static. Trace just doesn't accomplish much on a Pokemon like this, it's far too luck based.

 

[hydrolphin]

Why Static is the best choice left:

Static is a pretty cool ability. It works with Shield Dust better than any ability except Synchonize, especially with Electric/Dragon typing. While Shield Dust is generally better, Static works in a way similar to that of Heatproof on Bronzong (except better). An opponent won't know whether you have Shield Dust or Static, but they will likely think your using Shield Dust. But if you have Static, you can surprise an opponent when they get paralyzed. You can also free up an attack slot, if you were previously using T-Wave.

Trace would be inneffective on CAP8, due to its typing. The five main pokemon that you can counter with Trace are Gyarados, Salamence, Vaporeon, Jolteon, and Heatran. CAP8 already resists the moves you'd be switching in on for the latter three. Salamence has Draco Meteor to kill you with, not to mention that Outrage and EQ will still do a sizeable sum of damage, even with Intimidate. Gyarados isn't gonna stay in on a buly electric type, even with out the attack loss. So 4 of the 5 cant hurt CAP8 either way, and the last one Trace kills. There are other uses for trace, (my personal favorite is switching a P2 in on a noobs Ninjask) but when you don't need trace's best trait, you dont really use it to its full ponential.

 

[zarator]

we generally haven't created sweepers in the past because OU simply didn't need them.

Why do you need to add something highly offensive when OU already has a multitude of great sweepers such as Alakazam, Heatran, Jolteon, Infernape, Kingdra, Scizor, Lucario, Metagross, Starmie, and so forth?

Voted Static. Trace just doesn't accomplish much on a Pokemon like this, it's far too luck based.

Have you bothered playing in CAP server? Nowadays the CAP metagame is very stallish, due to the large amount of bulky and wallish Pokémon we have produced.

I hate when people make comments like this without even thinking that, with 7 other new Pokémon thrown in the fray, CAP metagame is not standard OU metagame. Some considerations doesnt apply here.

 

[Blue_Tornado]

I voted Trace, since he'll probably get Discharge (or T-wave) anyway, so Static will be useless like Flame Body on Magmortar x_x

 

[ray2020]

I preferStatic since it's less gimmick-y (Static gimmick mentioned by hydrolphin) compared to trace [you may stop flygon from EQs, but he has other options, E-vire would never try to hit you with an electric move anyways, and Mence has other options after intimidate]

 

[Flounder]

Have you bothered playing in CAP server? Nowadays the CAP metagame is very stallish, due to the large amount of bulky and wallish Pokémon we have produced.

I hate when people make comments like this without even thinking that, with 7 other new Pokémon thrown in the fray, CAP metagame is not standard OU metagame. Some considerations doesnt apply here.

lol

I'm aware of how much stall is used in the metagame, but clearly there are some things you aren't aware of.

No kidding it's not standard OU, but it's not like you're playing CMS or AAMS either.

Furthermore, how is one ridiculous sweeper going to outright break down stall? It isn't. Sweepers don't work very well almost specifically because of Arghonaut. In order to come even close to stopping stall, you'd need something with absurd power that doesn't rely on stat-up moves. You'd basically need Alakazam on crack, or pre-revision Syclant.

 

[zarator]

lol

I'm aware of how much stall is used in the metagame, but clearly there are some things you aren't aware of.

No kidding it's not standard OU, but it's not like you're playing CMS or AAMS either.

Furthermore, how is one ridiculous sweeper going to outright break down stall? It isn't. Sweepers don't work very well almost specifically because of Arghonaut. In order to come even close to stopping stall, you'd need something with absurd power that doesn't rely on stat-up moves. You'd basically need Alakazam on crack, or pre-revision Syclant.

This is simply plain false. Arghonaut alone isn't the reason CAP has become so stallish. If the CAP metagame was simply standard OU + Argho it would not have turned so stallish. There is a number of sweepers - Breloom, Metagross, Togekiss and Zapdos only to name a few - which can destroy it with ease. And we all know that one Pokémon alone, if not broken, can't shift the metagame to offense to stall or viceversa all by himself. What makes CAP so stallish is the simple fact that Arghonaut is not alone. Fidgit, Revenankh and (to a lesser extent) Pyroak help greatly Argho (not necessarily in the same team, I mean in the same competitive environment) to slow down the game with their bulk, their disruptive moves and so on.

And while it is true that we should always think to standard metagame (I always bashed concepts like Anti-CAP), blatantly ignoring that CAP metagame is different, by saying things like "We need something to slow down sweepers" or "The metagame is too offensive" in relation to the CAP process is unacceptable. The difference between CAP metagame and OU metagame is a matter of fact. Otherwise we would not do the playtesting the way we do it nowadays.

 

[Elevator Music]

Voting option 'abstain' because both options are stupid.


Though Static is slightly less stupid so I may vote for that if it seems like it needs the extra push.

 

[Plus]

CaP isn't as far fetched from OU as some people make it out to be. Honestly, it's a fact that stall is prevalent in CaP. However, it is dumb to say that single pokemon can take down stall. Zapdos isn't even used as a sweeper as much as the bulkier variants in CaP either. Stall requires multiple pokemon to break down. It's quite easy though, as well built offensive teams are infact the bane of stall teams. It's foolish to say one pokemon can break down an entire team, provided that they run Fidgit/Skarm/Bliss/Argho all the time.

Either way, most things that work in OU do infact work in CaP. I for one use my standard team for CaP, which works absolutely fine.

Arghonaut has also made a rise in stall. Not that Arghonaut alone makes CaP so stallish, but without it, people wouldn't have as good of a CaP stall as they do now. Of course you could single out pokemon, but the fact is that once a pokemon in stall dies, the effectiveness of the team significantly decreases.