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Whimsicott

jrrrrrrr said:
The only thing this pokemon can do effectively is Sub Seed.
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Congratulations on naming the worst strategy it can utilize as its best strategy.

Erufuun has priority encore. Priority encore is Erufuun. Nobody seems to understand how ridiculous priority encore is, probably because 95% of erufuuns completely waste its talents by subseeding. If you're using sub with priority encore, you're doing it wrong.
 
Green Mage said:
Congratulations on naming the worst strategy it can utilize as its best strategy.

Erufuun has priority encore. Priority encore is Erufuun. Nobody seems to understand how ridiculous priority encore is, probably because 95% of erufuuns completely waste its talents by subseeding. If you're using sub with priority encore, you're doing it wrong.
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I'm still sticking to Encore/Seed/Sub with Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock support. It only works after Ferrothorn is dead, though.
 
KokoaKiwi said:
Keep in mind not all Whimsicotts run Encore. I've seen a lot of them with Sub/Seed/Taunt/Stun Spore or Cotton Guard or U-Turn. Encore is strangely the move least used move I've seen...
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Why would you not run Encore? People are weird.
Green Mage said:
Erufuun has priority encore. Priority encore is Erufuun. Nobody seems to understand how ridiculous priority encore is, probably because 95% of erufuuns completely waste its talents by subseeding. If you're using sub with priority encore, you're doing it wrong.
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Said it better than I can.
 
Encore really should be the #1 priority on all non-gimmick Whimsicotts (pun not intended actually). Other alternate options like Cotton Guard and Memento can be slotted over another move, because other than Sub-Seed, it is basically just a big pool of speedy support moves.
 
Actually, most of its other egg moves are illegal with Encore, but none of them are worth giving it up outside of a really specific purpose.
 
Substitute is almost counter productive. It's a waste of a turn and health. Erufuun isn't meant to stay in. Its job is to come in on waters, grounds and electrics and either encore or leech seed depending on the situation. Encore gives you a free switch in and more hazard damage when they're forced to switch out, and leech seed piles on the passive damage while adding recovery to your switch-in. Why would you sub and throw 25% of your health away when you can instead gain massive momentum by controlling your opponents switches?

You'd be surprised how many people stay in and let their gyarados or whatever set up 16 times while leech seed kills them because their only hope of beating my erufuun is to kill encore's pp. That's why toxic is a good idea; it kills them faster, thus saving your encores. It is extremely unfortunate that it doesn't work on the mole, but erufuun still forces it out as long as it gets in on anything but x-scissor (surprisingly easy due to type synergy) thanks to eq/slide doing crap damage after a charm.

Subseeding is a terribly weak strategy that doesn't work. Subseeding with erufuun is like filling a cannon with cottonballs. Leech Seed's main function is to give your encore trap a time limit thus forcing them to switch.
 
Jumpluff was here. Erufuun is a loser.

Green Mage is right, sub seeding is the least threatening thing this pokemon can do. Even though it isn't too reliable, priority stun spore is alright for when a sweeper has somehow managed to put you into a tight spot.
 
The only thing this has over, say, Thundurus is a priority Encore, which at best grants one pokemon just a single turn to set up, which I find far from worthy of a team slot.
 
Green Mage said:
Congratulations on naming the worst strategy it can utilize as its best strategy.

Erufuun has priority encore. Priority encore is Erufuun. Nobody seems to understand how ridiculous priority encore is, probably because 95% of erufuuns completely waste its talents by subseeding. If you're using sub with priority encore, you're doing it wrong.
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SubSeed is the only way Erufunn can deal damage and it's the only way it can recover health. A priority Encore is only useful to help set up the SubSeed and stop a sweep in a complete emergency. Encore is neat, but you still have to risk switching Erufunn in on something (it's 2HKOd by a lot of common pokemon)...and you have to risk the chance the opposing pokemon DIDNT use a setup move...and you have to risk the chance that they are still faster (whether it's ExtremeSpeed or a faster priority move)...and you have to deal with a nerfed Encore...
 
jrrrrrrr said:
SubSeed is the only way Erufunn can deal damage and it's the only way it can recover health. A priority Encore is only useful to help set up the SubSeed and stop a sweep in a complete emergency. Encore is neat, but you still have to risk switching Erufunn in on something (it's 2HKOd by a lot of common pokemon)...and you have to risk the chance the opposing pokemon DIDNT use a setup move...and you have to risk the chance that they are still faster (whether it's ExtremeSpeed or a faster priority move)...and you have to deal with a nerfed Encore...
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Toxic does damage, and it shouldn't need to recover health all the time because it isn't a wall. Priority Encore is useful for so much more than that; you obviously haven't seen it used properly. Prediction, prediction, prediction. Obviously you don't bring it in on a fast priority user or something that doesn't run non-attacking moves. Nerfed Encore really isn't a big deal because most things are going to switch out of it anyway, and (if they stay in) if you can't do whatever you're trying to do with one turn of setup, you should probably reevaluate that strategy anyway.
 
masterful said:
While I wouldn't go so far as to say SubSeeders are terrible in general, as i find SubSeed Breloom still magnificent, I do find this thing and its gimmick wear thin very quickly, especially as there are powerful threats like Thundurus and Tornadus who can abuse this same ability to actually assist them in dealing damage and sweeping teams. This thing can truly do very little while in, and ends up largely being dead weight on many teams it is placed on.
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Well... Breelom is.... special AND one of the most influental poke in the game.
He has 12,5 % rec and immunity to status AND spore to make it good. AND 130 attack AND focus Punch and it can potentialy lol at its supposed counter with spore and its insane movepool.

Erufuun in other hand is plain horrrible in my experience. Yeah i see that thing and i can make assumption of things it do. Priority encore is so easy to predict its not funny. AND have fun if you encore set up move while they have sub i dare you. especialy if its roobushin and friends

On thundurus he is versatile. Scarf,specs, mix, Plot yeah you get the idea(although i prefer Tornadus as of late)
 
masterful said:
The only thing this has over, say, Thundurus is a priority Encore, which at best grants one pokemon just a single turn to set up, which I find far from worthy of a team slot.
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How about rendering the majority of sweepers, walls, baton passers, ground, water and electric types useless while forcing your opponent to either switch into hazards or lose a pokemon?

Like I explained earlier, the overwhelming majority of erufuuns just try to sub seed. Sub seeding erufuun is terrible. It is the wrong way to use him. Good erufuuns are rare, so not many people have experience with its potential. I want to call it a 'defensive pivot' but i'm not sure i completely understand what that term means.

As for erufuun 'damaging' something, it creates a leech seed/toxic/encore prison while entry hazards are down. It forces your opponent to switch around. Yes, you nees heatran and vappy or some other type equivalents to support it. So what? Does doryuuzu suck because it needs ttar/hippo? Requiring support is not a negative trait; if all your pokemon aren't supporting each other to begin with, your team probably isn't doing so well.
 
lmitchell0012 said:
After looking at the pokedex, miltank seems like a pretty decent counter to this thing. She gets herbivore, so she's immune so stun spore and leech seed. If it tries to encore you, you can hit it with t-wave/toxic. It also has heal bell in case it tries to cripple you (with toxic). If you opt to use toxic, you can easily stall this thing to death.
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Does anyone see any issues with this strategy for countering erufuun??
 
lmitchell0012 said:
Does anyone see any issues with this strategy for countering erufuun??
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It doesn't work if it encores your status move. Then you're screwed. Miltank is also a pretty mediocre pokemon to be used, and it's not wise to use ONE pokemon to counter only one thing... did I mention Erufuun has taunt, too?
 
iFly said:
It doesn't work if it encores your status move. Then you're screwed. Miltank is also a pretty mediocre pokemon to be used, and it's not wise to use ONE pokemon to counter only one thing... did I mention Erufuun has taunt, too?
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While it goes for encore, you'll be going for toxic. If it wants to encore that badly, then go ahead, but it'll be poisoned in the process. And you can just switch out after you're encored. Even if miltank can't stall with heal bell, milk drink, etc she can still just spam body slam or something.
 
Substitute is great on all Erufuun sets, since it lets you scout and block status. It also allows you to run SubSeed as a secondary strategy. Running something like Encore/Sub/Leech Seed/Stun Spore or Taunt is perfect.

Priority Encore, priority Substitutes, priority Leech Seed, priority Stun Spore or Taunt.... works fantastic. It forces lots of switching, and can open up turns for you to set up or straight up KO set up abusers who are dumb enough to stay in.

Its also worth noting that SubSeeding has saved my ass in a number of battles, especially in late game close battles.
 
lmitchell0012 said:
While it goes for encore, you'll be going for toxic. If it wants to encore that badly, then go ahead, but it'll be poisoned in the process. And you can just switch out after you're encored. Even if miltank can't stall with heal bell, milk drink, etc she can still just spam body slam or something.
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You're forgetting that Erufuun also gets U-turn. Besides, it won't go for encore AFTER you use your move. Don't forget it also has Substitute, leaving it another turn to set-up for its teammates. Especially if it subs while you toxic and then encores the toxic.
 
Subbing with encore is useless? I dont think so. As already said, it blocks status, giving you another Encore bait.
 
Pombo said:
Subbing with encore is useless? I dont think so. As already said, it blocks status, giving you another Encore bait.
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Exactly. Erufuun's movesets also, I feel, depend on its role in the team. Is it to block status/setup, is it an anti-lead, team support? Obviously on a lead set, subbing with encore isn't the best, because you'll want either slot (depending on if you're using Taunt over Encore or Sub) to be replaced for a different move...
 
iFly said:
You're forgetting that Erufuun also gets U-turn. Besides, it won't go for encore AFTER you use your move. Don't forget it also has Substitute, leaving it another turn to set-up for its teammates. Especially if it subs while you toxic and then encores the toxic.
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I'll admit this thing keeps you guessing. If you expect a sub, go for seismic toss. If you expect an encore, go for the toxic.

You know what, screw this strategy. Why not just phaze the thing out??
 
Green Mage said:
How about rendering the majority of sweepers, walls, baton passers, ground, water and electric types useless while forcing your opponent to either switch into hazards or lose a pokemon?

Like I explained earlier, the overwhelming majority of erufuuns just try to sub seed. Sub seeding erufuun is terrible. It is the wrong way to use him. Good erufuuns are rare, so not many people have experience with its potential. I want to call it a 'defensive pivot' but i'm not sure i completely understand what that term means.

As for erufuun 'damaging' something, it creates a leech seed/toxic/encore prison while entry hazards are down. It forces your opponent to switch around. Yes, you nees heatran and vappy or some other type equivalents to support it. So what? Does doryuuzu suck because it needs ttar/hippo? Requiring support is not a negative trait; if all your pokemon aren't supporting each other to begin with, your team probably isn't doing so well.
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Okay, the only point that you made was that apparently if a certain poke is forced to use the same move three times in a row is completely cripplinh, which is wrong. First off, you can't domuch to anything with erufuun, so you probably have to switch. If you do, the opponent must simply attack once more or switch out, that isn't really crippling, as you haven't gotten a free turn at all. There are very few situations where erufuun can capitalize on a random encored move besides on a set-up sweeper, which is essentially all it can do. And Grass types, ground types, and electric types have nothing to do with what you are saying, and I have no clue what you are trying to say in terms of them
 
I've seen a lot of random sets all centered around the same things, but I gotta say, all in all, it looks like it suffers from 4-moveslot syndrome. I've been wracking my mind trying to figure out how to use it well, specifically on a mono-grass team(which is gimmicky to begin with, so sue me). I'll already have Leechseed and probably toxic everywhere, but I'm just wondering how to use this bugger, if at all.
Do I go with taunt, or encore? If both, then what else? I picked him up for speed; and it's clearly designed to be a nuisance pokemon. But what are my other options?
 
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