Osama Bin Laden Killed

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cookie

my wish like everyone else is to be seen
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what is this shit? the first time in about a year that i sleep before 4am and i miss fucking osama bin laden dying
 

mattj

blatant Nintendo fanboy
Osama wasn't killed in the capital of Pakistan.He was killed in Abbottabad which is Far away from the capital.

and he wasnt a Muslim becasue he killed so many innocent people.
Its good he is dead.He even destroyed peace in our country too.
im sorry you just can't say he's not a muslim it's his beliefs!
Nah, he has every right to say he's not a muslim, whereas you don't. If you would know him, he understand Islam better than most anyone here. Infernape-5, it makes me very glad to hear this from you; moreso than from anyone else.
 
That's right, don't imprison him or he'll just run away like Mas Selamat! It's a triumph for anti-terrorism forces I guess -- he's been hiding for an entire decade. Of course, his death mayn't be a death-blow to terrorism (I hope nobody's that naive), but I suppose it's given many hope.
 

Chou Toshio

Over9000
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Nah, he has every right to say he's not a muslim, whereas you don't. If you would know him, he understand Islam better than most anyone here. Infernape-5, it makes me very glad to hear this from you; moreso than from anyone else.
Ok... he's not a muslim...

He's a man who reads the Koran, worshiped Alah, and believed in (or at least preached and pushed for) a vision/mission that came from radicals born of muslim culture, and made a terrorist organization highly geared towards recruiting from muslim communities... better?


I don't "blame" Islam, and obviously Islam is not evil-- but culture and society cannot shirk off all the responsibility for having raised the individual, and cannot turn a blind eye to the problems before it.

America, for instance, cannot deny the atrocities of slavery or genocide (on the native Americans)-- we cannot turn a blind eye to the horrible racists that are born in our country even today. The evil of the individuals is, in part, a responsibility that must be carried and acknowledged by the society at large. At the very least, we must strive to improve.

The Japanese, who are the people of my ancestors and amongst whom I now live-- they cannot (or at least shouldn't!!) deny that it was the nature of their communal culture that gave birth to/allowed for the corruption in Tokyo Electric that severely worsened the current Nuclear situation. They are also truly at fault for turning a blind eye to the horrors that occurred at the hands of the Japanese in WWII in China and Korea. That is truly unacceptable.

While the society is not "evil" for the evil of certain individuals, the society does have to acknowledge and claim responsibility for the problems its individuals raise. At the very least, the responsibility to aim to change to raise better people.

Islam is not a single country or society, but it is a culture and world view as it is a religion-- it too cannot be dismissive, and shirk this responsibility of having raised the individual.

That is what really lies behind cookie's (and my) annoyance at the claim "Osama is not a muslim."

While it is good to recognize his evil, it is infuriating to say "he's not one of us!" and thus shirk that societal responsibility that lies in having raised the individual. Good muslims must acknowledge the problems within the culture of Islam in order to become a better people.

This is not unique to Islam, but like my above examples, is a responsibility that lies with all cultures and all peoples-- including my own. We must continue to strive to become better people.
 

Hipmonlee

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In a manner of speaking neither did the world trade centre attacks. More people die every day from heart disease than died in 9/11.

If people are celebrating then as far as I am concerned this already means something in practical terms.

Also good riddance.

Have a nice day.
 
For real, Osama bin Laden was a Muslim. He just happened to be an incredibly terrible person who was a muslim. You can't just say he wasn't muslim because some idiots would use that to say Islam is an evil religion outright. Believe me, there have been many terrible people who are Christians, and many terrible people who were atheists, etc.
 

az

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i think the point was that there is something about an interpretation of muslim doctrine that says that someone doing the kinds of thing osama bin laden actually categorically could not be a muslim, whereas that title can't be stripped from say a christian or a jew supposedly

it's all irrelevant, though, because cookie was trolling you
 

cookie

my wish like everyone else is to be seen
is a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Nah, he has every right to say he's not a muslim, whereas you don't. If you would know him, he understand Islam better than most anyone here. Infernape-5, it makes me very glad to hear this from you; moreso than from anyone else.
how does he have more right than I do? First of all, I know a fair bit about Islam, having grown up around muslims and technically being one for a while myself. Secondly, you're implying that there's some sort of general consensus about what it is to be a muslim. There isn't, just like there isn't in christianity, judaism or any other religion. Multiple religion threads have shown me that no such consensus exists.
 
For real, Osama bin Laden was a Muslim. He just happened to be an incredibly terrible person who was a muslim. You can't just say he wasn't muslim because some idiots would use that to say Islam is an evil religion outright. Believe me, there have been many terrible people who are Christians, and many terrible people who were atheists, etc.
Or rather someone who used the name of Muslims and basically spat on it, worse than many of the racists around the world. He basically emphasized discrimination upon Muslims. Why? Because he made it look like Muslims are people who kill the selves for no reason but to kill other innocent people.
In a hadith from our Prophet (a quote which has some basis in establishing rules)
He forbade the killing on innocent people (saying that if you kill one man its as though you have killed all of mankind)
And that you cant do any harm to yourself as a sign of respect of the creation the God has given too you.
And also as a Muslim you cant truly judge someone, we believe its only God's desicion on whether he is Muslim or not.
Despite this he is still a filthy nutcase who IMO deserves to die
 
hi

this does nothing

and osama used the islam to give a reason for his actions, and for recruitment of course.. like most terrorist groups today

is there anything else to be said
 
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