Not really. Let me spell it out for you. For example, if yawn is a potential counterplay, why don't we discuss why yawn does or doesn't work? Etc. Instead, all I hear are vague things about how there is no counterplay or it is extremely limited. I don't see much talk about the specific examples. I don't see much talk about examining all the options in real detail.
It is not the burden of everyone else to play devil's advocate for a position they don't agree with. Do it yourself.
As for your yawn example it's frankly laughable. It's basically matchup fishing based on which yawn user you bring to check which potential dmax abuser, and as it is brought up ENDLESSLY in these discussions, that doesnt work since you can potentially dmax 4 to 6 mons without negatively impacting teambuilding.
Not only that but since dmax moves boost your stats and many of its best abusers are moxie and beast boost mons, sacking a mon to yawn with it can still leave you in a bad position, especially considering an unlucky wake up and the fact that the mon who could get a yawn off was one of yours who already had a good matchup vs the dmaxer. Also sleep clause will likely interfere with this often.
These aren't exactly in depth topics in this particular thread. Other people on here have even stated that the conversations here on both sides weren't exactly the best. People have tried to tell me better conversation for it exist, but I don't see them here because they aren't here. What is here isn't what I'm looking for.
Well then why dont YOU tell us why you think it's not broken and all the wonderful and varied counterplay there apparently is that we simply aren't exploring. Or was "use yawn bro" it?
Another straw man argument about something I didn't say. The process is wrong if it hasn't had proper and in depth consideration related to this specific tier. It has nothing to do with landslide votes.
Some shit was here
I'll ask you again to please stop misrepresenting my points.
It was not misrepresented, it was abbreviated. Certainly not in a positive light, but that's not what makes something a straw man. Funny how you literally post the dictionary definition and still don't apply it right. There is also literally nothing to suggest that there hasnt been proper depth and consideration related to natdex ou.
Again, if you want to see these points made, make them yourself. I'm sure they've already been done to death though, and I'm guessing this is why you are playing these mental gymnastics instead of making those points.
As for your next whole point if you are going to say some trash like "I will not acknowledge this again" then I guess I dont need to bother dismantling it. This is tiring anyway.
it's 100% relevant because it is hypocritical to tell someone to go at AG (or support that position) and refuse to consider my point about gen 7 OU. Don't you understand that it's the same kind of argument? At least while you tried to dodge my question yet again, you admitted that you were always banking on Dynamax being banned.
Yeah, no, that analogy completely falls apart the moment you have to create a fantasy universe where dmax isnt getting banned for it to make any sense, that's why I didn't acknowledge it. You look at my view of the dmax ban being inevitable as being biased. I view it as being pragmatic.
I guess it is easier not to care when you figure it won't effect you. And yet when someone talks about potentially banning Dynamax, you ask how "long you have to suffer" though it.
Because I am tired of people clearly just trying to delay it by saying things like "but we need more time to see if its broken" without ever suggesting a GOOD reason why it might not be. We've seen the same old tired recycled arguments used in the gen 8 ou suspect with the most significant point in favor being that natdex has z crystals and megas so there may only potentially be 8 mons per game who can dmax instead of 12. Do I need to tell you why this argument really isnt a good one or can you read the thread yourself?
You aren't willing to go to gen 7 OU yourself
Speak for your damn self gen 7 OU was great.
but you are perfectly willing to tell other people to go to the drastically different AG tier. If you still don't see the blatant double standard then I don't know what else to tell you.
Well, if dmax gets banned (and you know as well as i do that its gone) where else will you go? Yeah, it's sad, but it's not my problem, and it's not anyone's responsibility to alter the voting process because that's what you want.
You can call it whatever you like. Your actual position isn't important so much as it is your refusal to accept anything that doesn't fit the preconceived notions you set beforehand.
You havent put forth anything that does! You have merely suggested that some might exist!
Whether you are correct or not (not saying you are or aren't)
well maybe you should start saying whether I am or not, because I grow tired of these games.