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5th Gen PRNG Help / Info - Latest: RNG Reporter 9.96.5, PPRNG 1.15.0
- Thread starter Slashmolder
- Start date
This has been bugging me for a while.
With a few different seeds, I often get the wrong PID after the right amount of advancement. It doesn't always happen, though, and I managed to get a good Durant, but with the same advances I always got different things before.
Anything I may be overlooking?
With a few different seeds, I often get the wrong PID after the right amount of advancement. It doesn't always happen, though, and I managed to get a good Durant, but with the same advances I always got different things before.
Anything I may be overlooking?
Anyone who ever needs a video guide for breeding (including Shiny Pokemon):
5th Generation RNG Abuse for Bred (including Shiny) Pokemon by bearsfan092
5th Generation RNG Abuse for Bred (including Shiny) Pokemon by bearsfan092
Admittedly, my Spanish is a bit rusty, but I’m willing to give it the “old college try.”
Note: comments within ** are my own.
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[Tutorial] How to RNG Shiny Roamers (Thundurus and Tornadus)
By Aleborito
Hello everyone, this post is intended to walk you through the process of RNGing Thundurus and Tornadus with a special focus on PID abuse since the MTIVRNG is more than easy to control for these two. I hope this will come in handy.
Here we have a video which clearly shows a shiny Tornadus was registed on my Pokedex through RNG manipulation (this is here only to serve as visual proof that this is possible as recording the entire process would be impossible for me due to my lack of patience XD)
(YOUTUBE video)
This was recorded while playing on my Nintendo DSiXL (after registering the shiny sprite on my Pokedex I saved my progress and switched consoles) *obviously from a DS Phat/Lite*
The first variable to take into account is the weather because as the image below shows, the IVs and the PID of the roaming Pokemon are NOT generated when it flies into the sky, but rather, they are generated when it stops raining.
In the following image, Sequence 1 shows when the roaming Pokemon has just disappeared from the screen, but its specs (IV/PID) have not been generated yet. In contrast, Sequence 4 shows exactly when the roaming Pokemon’s specs are generated:
(image originally posted on smogon) *by Kaphotics, IIRC*
According to this image, the time it takes for the rain to cease is approximately 9 seconds.
The PID advances about 60 frames per second when it is raining, which is why we must take into account that the PID frame will be higher than 540. *others have reported that their SSF was lower due to a lack of “natural” rain on the route on the particular date of their RNG abuse*
Next, we’ll add a margin of approximately 40 frames because there are *wandering* NPCs in the area who advance the PID frame while you walk out of the old woman’s house on Route 7. *I thought they “froze” in awe at the spectacle of a legendary Pokemon…guess not*
Additionally, we’ll add 60 frames because our Initial PID Frame will be between 40 and 60. If you have the latest version *of RNG Reporter or PRNG* you will be able to find the Initial PID Frame for each seed by subtracting 1 (if your Initial PID Frame is 57, then RNG Reporter will predict that it is 56)
Next, I’ll search for a shiny frame no less than 700. *meh, 698 is close enough*
So, now that I have all variables accounted for, I put all the necessary criteria on RNG Reporter’s Time Finder:
(image of his Time Finder results) *He writes within a caption that he has Pokemon Black Version (Spanish), but that sometimes he needs to select the opposite, that is, Pokemon White Version (Spanish)…interesting*
Now, I’ll confirm the PIDRNG and that my Initial PID Frame is 57 (the program lists it as +1)
(image of results on Main Window of RNG Reporter 9.81)
Therefore, I’ll have to calculate the PID frame while it’s raining + my Initial PIDRNG Frame (540 + 57 = 597)
Simultaneously, we’ll have to take into account the *Wandering* NPCs and we can begin to calibrate.
I will only list the calibration attempts which yielded the correct set of IVs. *wrong IVs = wrong seed cause by alternate Timer0*
As you can see, the listed PID Frames generated by RNG Reporter are greater than 620 because when I begin to calibrate by using our estimated frame of 597, the results need to be higher than my estimate.
Attempts / IVs? / Nature / Possible Frame on RNG Reporter
-00 advances / Correct / Hardy / 621
-12 advances / Correct / Relaxed / 633
-13 advances / Correct / Lonely / 634
-36 advances / Correct / Quirky / 656 when it should have been 657
-66 chatters / Correct / Jolly / 686 when it should have been 687
As you can see, there are PID frames that produce a Hardy Nature, which, if they start on Frame 621 and we add 36 Frame advancements to, would result in a final frame of 657. However, this is clearly not the case as “lagging” *due to human error…we’re not precision machines* while rushing through the encounter dialogue or simply having a Wandering NPC move, will ultimately alter our final PID Frame by more than we accounted for. XD If that is the case, simply remedy this by adding/subtracting an advancement/chatter by +/-1 if it didn’t go well the first couple of tries.
Therefore, if my shiny frame is on frame 698 and my estimated “Initial” frame is about 621, I will perform 77 advances.
Well, my process was this:
(image of him saved inside the old lady’s house in Route 7 and exiting thereby triggering the encounter)
Caption 1: Saved my progress here and advanced the frame by viewing a Chattering Chatot’s summary 77 times.
Caption 2: Repeatedly mashing “A” like a madman to rush through the dialogue starting here…
Caption 3: and stopping here.
I kept trying slightly different PID advancements until one yielded my shiny roamer. In the end I wound up advancing 76 frames instead of 77, hehe.
Note: the reason why it is necessary to mash “A” like a madman is to keep our variables (rain drops and Wandering NPCs) to a somewhat controlled state because any “lagging” will obviously generate a higher PID Frame for your roamer.
I hope that this has been helpful and if you think there is anything missing from this post, please feel free to ask any necessary questions. Thanks for reading and a special thanks to AdroMaster for providing the information I initially used.
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And that’s about it. All in all, a nice consolidation of information I have already seen on this thread, but it’s nice to see how everyone, no matter the language or location is able to RNG. This even makes me want to give Shiny Roamers RNG a go since verifying if you hit your seed and PID is as simple as looking at the Pokedex entry.
@Tammigo: I’m just happy to give “something” back to the community, no matter how tiny that “something” is.
Notable Addendum:
Conversation between Chaos Element:X and UpsideDownHitmontop about using PID%6 to help determine one’s SSF when RNGing Roamers.
Chaos Element:X: Oh, quick question about PID%6.
I'm using the Windows Calculator... and I wanted to check if I'm doing this correctly: I type in the PID for what could be my starting frame, then I click "mod," "6," and finally, "=", which results in a number.
UpsideDownHitmontop: See Tesseraction's breeding guide
The characteristic is determined by your frame IVs and what your PID mod 6 is. And the PID should be in decimal of course.
Chaos Element:X: Cool, thanks - found it... now reading... though, all this programmer jargon is a lil scary as I'm trying to comprehend it...
UpsideDownHitmontop: It's not that hard. I'll give you an example. Let's say your seed IVs are 30/31/30/31/31/31. The Pokemon you catch is alert to sounds (speed). If you look at the hexagon in the guide you'll see that the only way to get alert to sounds with those IVs is if you start at Def (2) or speed (3). So you know that your starting PID mod 6 must be 2 or 3.
Now let's say you got somewhat vain (Sp. Def) with those IVs. There's only 1 way you can get somewhat vain and that's if you start at Sp. Def (5) so the PID mod 6 would have to be 5 for it to possibly be the correct starting frame.
Chaos Element:X: Ah! I think I get it! And just to clarify... say, my PID%6 = a stat on the hexagon that is not tied with the max - in this case, I continue moving clockwise on the hexagon until I hit the first stat that ties with the max. Otherwise, if the PID%6 = a stat that ties with the max already, the characteristic will represent it.
I.e., with the 30/31/30/31/31/31 spread you used, if PID%6 = 4, then the characteristic will relate to Sp. Attack (Mischievous)... but, if PID%6 = 0 or 1, then the characteristic will relate to Attack (Likes to thrash about).
(Thanks for all of your help - this will significantly improve my roamer RNGing, which has been a pain for the past 48 hrs.)
Conversation between same users, this time about inconsistencies encountered in PID Frames when mashing “A” rush through Season Intro Screen.
Chaos Element: X: So, if anyone has some free time and would like to help me verify something...
My seed: F511BEDFBD02B1B4
My TID/SID: 21204 / 18558
Advances: ....................... Nature:..... PID%6:
No Menu Opened................ Brave....... 3
Menu opened; 0 Advances... Modest..... 1
10 Advances...................... Hardy...... 4/5/0
20 Advances...................... Timid....... 4/5/0
30 Advances...................... Brave...... 3
I'm RNGing a Tornadus (in which there's no "natural" weather upon exiting the house)... And I wanted a second opinion on what the starting frame could be. I thought I found it, but when I tried advancing to my target, I end up with a couple of "outliers" - like, a PID frame that appears to be over 20 frames away from where I should be... Though, I should note, in most cases the frames I land on (from 5 other attempts) seem to be within +/-5 from my target (890).
UpsideDownHitmontop: The pattern seems to indicate that 614 is your starting frame. The only problem is that hardy. The hardy nature with that PID%6 appears 1 after the modest which doesn't seem right.
Why do you list menu opened/not opened? I don't see how opening the menu would affect anything if you didn't do any PID advances. You're saved inside the house, right?
Also post the characteristics instead of the PID%6. If you post the PID%6 then we have to assume that you did it correctly which might not be true.
Make sure you check the IVs each time so that you're not posting natures/characteristics from a missed seed.
Also I know sometimes the seasons change when you exit the house. If that happens you should always let it fade by itself. I find that if you press A to get rid of it, it throws you off by a lot.
Chaos Element: X: Oh, sorry - I was trying to save people the trouble of matching up characteristics... And I saved in the house - which, upon entering the game, as soon as I click "down," will exit the house immediately. I was afraid that dawdling in the house will cause my PID frames to advance on their own. And since it takes a fraction of a second to open the menu and access my Chatots, I thought it could cause a problem... so, without opening the menu, I listed my ultimate limit.
But now that you've mentioned it, I was pressing A to get rid of the season change... which is probably the cause of my inconsistencies. So, I'll try again without pressing through that and see if some consistency appears - but I did est. 615 as my starting frame, so that's a good sign. Now, to try again. XD
Chaos Element: X: It should also be noted that summer has no rain upon exiting the house (months 2,6,10). xD I know Spring and Winter have weather... never tried autumn. -__- I wish I could use a seed without the season changing, but due to some complications, I'm stuck between two icky issues: Either face rain upon exiting the house, or face a season change.
Chaos Element: X: You are a genius! You're definitely right... I'm good to go now - shooting for my target with my next try. I just recalibrated... now my starting frame is 623. with 10 advances, my Tornadus matches the one for frame 633. With 20 advances, my Tornadus matches frame 643. This is the most consistent its been for two days now! I probably could've saved myself SO much time if I wasn't doing that one little thing. XD
To summarize:
- Use the PID%6 method to locate your Roamer’s SSF by using its characteristic as a guiding tool. Convert its possible PID Frame from hexadecimal to decimal (found in RNG Reporter in the top right corner and selecting Performance Options -> PID Display -> Decimal).
- DO NOT mash “A” to rush through the Season Intro Screen if you happen to have one. Doing so will produce inconsistent results (less/more time for the NPCs/Rain to advance the PID Frame).
- Optional: Before heading north to Route 10 after acquiring the final badge and hearing about the storm on Route 7 during your walkthrough, test out some seeds/dates with your wanted Frame 1 Roamer IV spreads in order to confirm whether there is natural rain on Route 7 during that particular date.
- Summer is an optimal season to use when RNGing roamers, according to popular consensus.
Thanks much for this!
Still wondering.
@Tombstoner
Well, to figure out what you're overlooking we kinda need to know what you're taking into account. Are there possible NPCs in the area that could be advancing the PID? Are you advancing the IV frame by walking, and if so are you aware that every 19 steps advances the PID frame by 1 even if you're not in an area where you can get in a battle? Are you taking any steps or turns inside an area that can trigger a battle, and if so are you taking the PID advancements from that into account? Note that stepping/turning usually causes an advance of 2 frames, but sometimes causes only 1 advancement. Is there any weather active? Have you checked to see if both your Chatots still remember their Chatter? (I've had that happen to me before; I usually RNG with the sound muted and didn't realize they were playing their default call and therefore not advancing the PID.) Are you trying to advance the PID frame by pulling mons out of the PC? I've tried that before and found my PID advances became unreliable, too.
Those are just a couple things off the top of my head, and I'm sure there are more. Just saying, we need to know what you're taking into account to figure out what it is you're overlooking.
Well, to figure out what you're overlooking we kinda need to know what you're taking into account. Are there possible NPCs in the area that could be advancing the PID? Are you advancing the IV frame by walking, and if so are you aware that every 19 steps advances the PID frame by 1 even if you're not in an area where you can get in a battle? Are you taking any steps or turns inside an area that can trigger a battle, and if so are you taking the PID advancements from that into account? Note that stepping/turning usually causes an advance of 2 frames, but sometimes causes only 1 advancement. Is there any weather active? Have you checked to see if both your Chatots still remember their Chatter? (I've had that happen to me before; I usually RNG with the sound muted and didn't realize they were playing their default call and therefore not advancing the PID.) Are you trying to advance the PID frame by pulling mons out of the PC? I've tried that before and found my PID advances became unreliable, too.
Those are just a couple things off the top of my head, and I'm sure there are more. Just saying, we need to know what you're taking into account to figure out what it is you're overlooking.
@bearsfan092 and madarame: Good stuff guys :D Even though I've already figured out eggs and released my roamer long ago, it'll be nice to be able to point people directly towards information.
- Wandering NPCs may screw you up, but since you mentioned Durant, I'm guessing you're using one of those quiet rooms on Victory Road so this wouldn't be an issue.
- Moving in Pokemon-infested areas can advance your frames inconsistently. Are you using a frame 1 seed? I RNGed the Volcarona yesterday, and decided to give turning-in-place advancements a shot. My results were close, but inconsistent. I then switched over to good ol' Chattering, and my results were more consistent, but still sometimes wrong. It think it's because I was using a frame 6 seed and had to do a bit of running to set the IVs.
Or do you mean you used to get result X, but now get result Y? I tend to use the same flawless spread for catching random flawless dudes, and used to think the starting PID frame would always be the same for that particular seed. I seem to recall reading that somewhere, but now think I was reading wrong and the starting frame is only the same for that particular save. I'll probably test the theory later today, but just because it's quicker to do it myself than search this thread for an answer :P
Edit: Mostly ninjad by Khift! What s/he said is good. Yeah, Tombstoner, more information helps us help you.
I'm probably just harping what other people have said but...
- Wandering NPCs may screw you up, but since you mentioned Durant, I'm guessing you're using one of those quiet rooms on Victory Road so this wouldn't be an issue.
- Moving in Pokemon-infested areas can advance your frames inconsistently. Are you using a frame 1 seed? I RNGed the Volcarona yesterday, and decided to give turning-in-place advancements a shot. My results were close, but inconsistent. I then switched over to good ol' Chattering, and my results were more consistent, but still sometimes wrong. It think it's because I was using a frame 6 seed and had to do a bit of running to set the IVs.
Or do you mean you used to get result X, but now get result Y? I tend to use the same flawless spread for catching random flawless dudes, and used to think the starting PID frame would always be the same for that particular seed. I seem to recall reading that somewhere, but now think I was reading wrong and the starting frame is only the same for that particular save. I'll probably test the theory later today, but just because it's quicker to do it myself than search this thread for an answer :P
Edit: Mostly ninjad by Khift! What s/he said is good. Yeah, Tombstoner, more information helps us help you.
I took all of that into account, but thanks.
If stepping and turning causes inconsistent advancement, then that is definitely my problem.
Really? That's nifty and nice to know. Is this only on areas with randomly moving NPCs, or areas with any NPCs?
@Khift: I draw this conclusion form the fact that RNG Reporter wouldn't be able to calculate your initial PID frame if this was dependent on a save but I could be wrong. If it happens to be true though then yes, only areas with the randomly moving ones change your starting PID since the ones with a fixed pattern don't advance the PID frame this gen.
Madarame just posted a list with area's where the PID isn't shifted by NPCs so it could be easily tested by going to one of those catching a pokémon on a certain seed, then do the same thing again but this time wait for some time. If the pokémon are the same (IVs, Gender, Nature, Species, Ability etc.) then it's true ^^ Which I hope because that would save some time testing/ finding your starting PID in such area's :)
Such handy and informative posts here lately, maybe a thread should be started where they're all saved for reference ^^
Madarame just posted a list with area's where the PID isn't shifted by NPCs so it could be easily tested by going to one of those catching a pokémon on a certain seed, then do the same thing again but this time wait for some time. If the pokémon are the same (IVs, Gender, Nature, Species, Ability etc.) then it's true ^^ Which I hope because that would save some time testing/ finding your starting PID in such area's :)
Such handy and informative posts here lately, maybe a thread should be started where they're all saved for reference ^^
So I've tried RNGing shinies in places I was told have no NPCs to mess up, and it doesn't work. I can't get a shiny Litwick or Cottonee from the top floor of the Celestial Tower or Lostlorn Forest.
I am not trying to nitpick, but I'm not sure such a test would be a valid way to check this. There is a sizable (>1s) period of time after loading the game before you can open up the menu to Sweet Scent and in that period of time moving NPCs can and will move and advance the PID. While I, personally, have found this to be manageable because when I load from the same save the moving NPCs move in the same pattern and advance the PID an equal amount so as long as my button mashing is equally rapid on all attempts I should theoretically get a reliable starting frame from that, essentially netting me a new minimum frame for that seed and save combination.
I think this is the same thing you were talking about, but with a different reason. It isn't because the moving NPCs change the initial PID frame because of their layout on the map but because given the same save and seed they will move in the same pseudo-random patter advancing the PID from the starting frame at the same rate per attempt.
Lol, maybe we're not really talking about the same thing and the more I think about it the more maybe obvious it becomes and stupid to even start about XD
Well it's a fact that your SF changes per save because of randomly moving NPCs and for every save they have a different position or whatever. What I was talking about is the possibility of your SF for a seed always being the same when in any area with no randomly moving NPCs. If there's nothing to advance the PID frame then I think your SF should always be the same (the one calculated by RNG Reporter).
Actually that's probably so since RNG Reporter itself kinda states it :P
Definitely not a nitpick, the test is way too small to verify. However for personal use it might be worth a try. I will since there's a pretty big lost of areas with no RM-NPCs.
I see I forgot to add ''randomly moving'' to my first post about this. Whoopsie!
Well it's a fact that your SF changes per save because of randomly moving NPCs and for every save they have a different position or whatever. What I was talking about is the possibility of your SF for a seed always being the same when in any area with no randomly moving NPCs. If there's nothing to advance the PID frame then I think your SF should always be the same (the one calculated by RNG Reporter).
Actually that's probably so since RNG Reporter itself kinda states it :P
Definitely not a nitpick, the test is way too small to verify. However for personal use it might be worth a try. I will since there's a pretty big lost of areas with no RM-NPCs.
I see I forgot to add ''randomly moving'' to my first post about this. Whoopsie!
This is what I'm questioning, though. I don't see this as a fact as all; my experiences have been that using the same seed on a different save both in different areas and in the same areas have been that the effective starting frame is at most only 2 frames off and I've always perceived this as being caused by the NPCs moving in a different pattern -- and it's never below what RNG Reporter says the starting frame should be, always effectively being 0 to 4 frames above the calculated starting frame.
I guess it'll take someone who actually knows the formulas to really answer this because we can't empirically test whether this discrepancy is because of movement or because of a changed initial frame, but like I said I don't think NPC positions effect the initial PID, I think they're separate like the step timer is.
Well it is said in Tesseraction's breeding guide so that's why I took it for a fact. Well actually I have had one seed where RNG Reporter said my SF was 49, knowing there were randomly moving NPCs at route 3 I checked my SSF and it was 58. Which means a difference of 58 - 1 - 49 = 8 frames. Another one had a difference of 3 frames. All of these were Gift Method seeds. I've also RNG'ed in Driftveil City once, that was like a difference of 40 frames for me :P
I've yet to test wether it changes if I use the same seed but a different save but I really do think that you'll get way different starting frames when RNG'ing at route 1 in comparison to Pinwheel Forest.
Edit: (from the Gen V RNG Breeding guide)
I'm not sure exactly how this works, but when you load your game, it shifts the PIDRNG somewhere into the 40-60 range, and this "Starting Frame (SF)" varies from seed to seed, but in areas with no NPCs, is (always? fairly?) consistent for any specific seed. Route 3 has wandering NPCs, however, and their initialization shifts the PIDRNG further by an amount which varies from save to save. The bolded part is important. Anytime you use a new save, you have to redo this step because the NPCs will have different starting positions!
I've yet to test wether it changes if I use the same seed but a different save but I really do think that you'll get way different starting frames when RNG'ing at route 1 in comparison to Pinwheel Forest.
Edit: (from the Gen V RNG Breeding guide)
I'm not sure exactly how this works, but when you load your game, it shifts the PIDRNG somewhere into the 40-60 range, and this "Starting Frame (SF)" varies from seed to seed, but in areas with no NPCs, is (always? fairly?) consistent for any specific seed. Route 3 has wandering NPCs, however, and their initialization shifts the PIDRNG further by an amount which varies from save to save. The bolded part is important. Anytime you use a new save, you have to redo this step because the NPCs will have different starting positions!
You're misinterpreting it. What he means is if you save, get your egg, you get what you want, and then you want to breed again, and then you save again, you need to recalculate.
If I saved, and started my game on that particular save 100 times, my SSF will be the same for those 100 times (provided I did everything the same).
Thing is, if you use a completely new save, the NPCs are most likely in different positions than last time, and will act slightly different. Hence you end up with a different SSF. But reusing the exact same save will continually give you the same SSF.
I know that (I actually say that in the post Khift quoted). The thing I actually wanted to know is wether if there were no randomly moving NPCs would the SF then always be the same for the same seed even if it was a different save. Tesseraction said it is (always? fairly?) consistent in area's with no NPCs. I was curious about it since it implies it could still be different.
Yes it should be the same SF if there are no NPCs.
hi im new to RNGing and for c-gear RNG what frames should i aim for? someone i thinki said 1600-1700
You should aim for delays in that range. Frames can be pretty low. Reporter shows the lowest frame you can hit as frame 1 iirc.
so my frame can be anything but my delay has to be 1600-1700 right :)
It doesn't have to be 1600-1700. Really anything higher than about 1250 is do-able. You just need enough time to get into the game. How high you go is up to how patient you are.