(Archive) Small Subjective Changes Thread

Infernape

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/infernape

This is in regard to its choice band set. At one point it states, "No Pokemon in OU will avoid a 2HKO from either Close Combat or Flare Blitz without resisting it." That is not true, the common 252 hp/ 252 def (bold) spread for suicune will never be 2HKOed by a choice banded close combat, it only does 48.3% max. The standard 252 hp/168 def (impish) likewise will never be 2hkoed. The standard swampert lead also stands a chance (albeit slight) to not be 2hkoed. While not part of the ou metagame, shuckle takes less damage (percentage wise) then any of the aforementioned pokemon). All of these stat calculations are only for jolly nature, but considering that is the only nature provided for that set, it's seems somewhat absurd that anyone would ever type that statement I mentioned.
 
@nbh1

Have you tried factoring in entry hazards or weather? They're everywhere in OU and Infernape will certainly get a 2HKO with SR up or Sandstorm or a layer of Spikes.

The statement clearly states 'No Pokemon in OU', bringing up Shuckle as an example is irrelevant since he's NU.
 
Groudon:

The Supporting Groudon should have the 8 Speed EV's removed and reallocated. The reason for this is simple: Nobody uses 8 Speed anymore, since every Groudon, Ho-oh, and Dialga user is involved in a speed creep contest. Jibaku has been known to run 112, for example. And aside from this, there's no reason to only run 8, run 36 if you want to beat standard Ho-oh.

Kyogre:

For the mono-attacker, I feel that Thunder Wave should be mentioned in the comments section. The reason for this is that right now, the dominant counters to Kyogre are Palkia/Lati@s, which means that pulling off successful Calm Minds is very difficult. Thunder Wave takes advantage of this by luring in Lati@s and paralyzing them. Furthermore, Kyogre can take advantage of the paralysis, combined with Rest and Sleep Talk, to stall out opponents, though you should NOT try this against Lati@s/Palkia, switch to Garchomp or something.

As for testing the move, I've done at least 50 battles with it on the alt ".Nappa." when I was climbing the ladder with my Manaphy team (peaked #20).
 
In the Swords Dance Infernape analysis, it has Fire Punch as a recommended move. Wouldn't Blaze Kick be a better idea, as it has a higher base power, with an increased critical hit rate? Is the accuracy that much of a problem, or is it that Blaze Kick doesn't score any crucial KOs? If the difference in base power really matters, then why not use Blaze Kick?

EDIT: Nevermind, it says on the analysis that even Flare Blitz scores the same KOs after SD; sorry for wasting your time.
 
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/weezing

In this sentence in the RestTalker set it is mentioned that
Even a simple Extrasensory from a Life Orbed Raikou has a shot at OHKOing Weezing, and a Life Orbed Milotic’s Hydro Pump OHKOes Weezing without question.
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I think the bolded part should be removed, seeing as the entire description of the set focuses on its effectiveness in the UU metagame, which Raikou is no longer a part of.
 
There's a specific sentence in the second paragraph of Zangoose's overview that should be removed or changed:

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/zangoose

Shunned and rejected in favor of better options in Standard play, it could be considered a true blessing that Zangoose set his sights lower and plunged into the unsettled waters of the UU tier. Sadly for the demon furball, however, he has failed to make any sort of impact in even this lower metagame and is still ousted from teams in favor of bulkier, faster, or harder-hitting alternatives.

However, let us not be too hasty in condemning the white wonder to disuse. Though his stats are low, they are distributed excellently; he has a very reliable STAB to use and a collection of moves that back it up with both excellent coverage and desirable boosts. He can run many different movesets, all of which work excellently with a little thought. That said, he is hard to use correctly, but with adequate support, there is very little in UU who can stop him from doing what he was designed to do: cause a lot of damage.
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Zangoose has only one set listed.
 
This is copied directly from my thread, which I wrote before reading this, my apologies for the mistke

Choice scarf Magnezone is used to trap steel types, outspeed, then OHKO, however, speed ev's are at 252, even though the comments regarding the speed EV's are, and I quote: "With the given EVs (and Hidden Power Ice), Magnezone reaches a Speed of 360, which outpaces positively-natured base 110's and below." However, by running the same set with 228 speed EV's, (232 with HP fire) you hit 351 speed, just enough to outrun positive Gengar and other positive base 110 speed pokemon. However starmie, azelf and other base 115's will sometimes run just enough to run the same pokemon, so you may want to go with one extra EV to outspeed them, and however not a big difference, with 28 (or 24 with HP fire) attack EV's, Explosions damage on Calm 0-252 Blissey goes from 81.9% - 96.5% to 85.3% - 100.3% (84.6% - 99.7% with HP fire) calculated by the smogon damage calculator, will be almost a guarented OHKO after stealth rock or other residual damage and a very small percent to OHKO with 28 EV's. However a very small change, and one that doesnt matter too much in the bigger effect, I though I'd mention this for the sake of the set, which is very effective.

The CSzone set can be found in this link
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/magnezone

Just thought I should contribute in the very small way I can, and if this is too useless to be of any use I would understand, thank you
 
Infernape once more

Fatecrashers said:
@nbh1

Have you tried factoring in entry hazards or weather? They're everywhere in OU and Infernape will certainly get a 2HKO with SR up or Sandstorm or a layer of Spikes.

The statement clearly states 'No Pokemon in OU', bringing up Shuckle as an example is irrelevant since he's NU.
Click to expand...

I'm aware of shuckle not being ou, it can still be used in ou, though it might not have been wise to include in my previous comment. I'm well aware of the entry hazards and weather, the banded infernape makes no mention of such scenarios, it simply says no ou pokemon will escape a 2hko without resisting it. That taken strictly for what it says is false. If that was their intention, they should have included saying something like with any residual damage inflicted no pokemon in ou will escape a 2hko without resisting those moves."
 
Victreebel

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/victreebel

In the Other Options section for Victeebel, it says, "Swords Dance is a poor option now, with only Razor Leaf for STAB and Return for 'type coverage'." Victreebel got access to Leaf Blade in Platinum, so Victreebel has a completely usable Sword Dance set, like this one:


Name: Sword Dance
Item: Life Orb / Leftovers
Nature: Naughty / Adamant

Moveset: ~ Sword Dance ~ Leaf Blade ~ Return ~ Weather Ball / Sleep Powder
EVs: 252 Atk / 124 SpA / 132 Spd

Swords Dance boosts Victreebel attack to 678. Leaf Blade is the reason I'm making this, allowing the set to be usable at all, physical and with a base power of 135, if you include STAB. Return provides coverage, along with power and accuracy. If you have Sunny Day up, then Weather Ball can hit Steels that would otherwise resist Victeebel, with 100 base power. Sleep Powder can be used if you want an easier set-up, or a good status move, but you won't be able to attack Steels.

The EVs given maximize attack, and (when under sunlight) out speeds all positive-nature Electrodes, and the rest is dumped into special attack to make Weather Ball stronger. If your using Sleep Powder, take the special attack EVs and put them into HP.

Life Orb gives an attack boost, which with his high attack and Sword Dance makes him even more capable of chomping some enemies, but drains your health whenever you do damage. Leftovers is if you don't want health nibbled at, but losing the attack boost could cause you to miss some KOs, which will leave you vulnerable to counter-attacks, which can be deadly to Victreebel due to his frailness. Use Naughty if your using Weather Ball, Adament if your using Sleep Powder.
 
HouseFantastic said:
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/venusaur

There are a few Venusaur sets that are marked to use Leftovers, like the SubSeeder set and the Support set. This isn't optimal, because Venusaur has a secondary poison type. Because of this, it can reap the benefits of Black Sludge instead, which wards off Trick users that might attempt to shut it down by tricking a choice scarf. I don't think there's any reason Venusaur should be using Leftovers over Black Sludge.
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On the contrary, using Black Sludge cripples your team more. It functions the same way as Lefties, but when its Tricked away, it then gives the opponent's Tricker another thing to cripple you with. The Pokemon that recieved Black Sludge in the Trick can simply switch out, and come back later to cripple a wall with it.
 
Magic Coat

I think in the move description for magic coat - it should mention that it doesnt reflect stealth rocks and spikes :)
 
In the Rotom-S analysis, in the first paragraph, it mentions being able to switch into Heracross and wreak havoc, but makes no mention of Breloom, who's STAB attacks it shrugs off and also OHKO's with Air Slash, but is IIRC a much more commonly used and thus a bigger threat.

I dunno, maybe you could mention it in the Heracross paragraph.
 
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/exeggutor

In Exeggutor's Trick Room set, it reads:
With a -Speed nature and 0 Speed IV, Exeggutor has a mere 103 Speed, making it "faster" than almost everything under Trick Room conditions.
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In the NU tier alone, (where Exeggutor is found,) including Wormadam formes, there are over 40 Pokémon with lower base speed than Exeggutor. The number moves closer to 60 when you include OU and UU Pokémon, which I do believe fall under the category of "everything". I would just like it to be rewritten so it isn't so exaggerated. Thanks for your time
 
Gyarados's standard moveset on the G/S page is messed up. Zap Cannon is not his standard electric move (50% accuracy means it is purely a gimmick move). Please replace with Thunderbolt.
 
For Baton Passing Jolteon, the spread is 252 SpA / 252 Spe. But if the only thing your passing is a Substitute, why wouldn't HP be maxed to make bulkier Subs? As it stands, Jolteon is passing 67-68 HP Subs, where with Max HP, it is passing 82-83 HP Subs, which is 33% bulkier. Since the focus of the set is Baton Pass and not sweeping, the set should reflect that in the EV spread.

The set can opt for 252 HP / 24 SpD / 232 Spe, as this allows the Substitute to survive Celebi's Grass Knot or Blissey's Ice Beam, but the drop in power is generally not worth it.
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Since its not a sweeping set and is a team player, this sentence needs to be omitted. The spread is most efficient with 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe.
 
How often do these bulky subs actually matter? I'd assume that the increaased power would be a higher priority, as we don't want Jolteon becoming dead weight once it's done its job. The alternate spread is listed for a reason, and there it should stay.
 
For Tyranitar DD set, should there be an alternative bulky EV spread of 252 HP/4 SpD/252 Spe, or a spread similar to that? This spread takes 69.8% - 82.2% from Life Orb Starmie's Hydro Pump, where as the 4 HP/0 spread takes 84.2% - 98.8% from the same Starmie. The 4 HP/252 SpD spread takes 65.5% - 77.8%, which is also fairly significant. Jolly nature is used for all of the spreads. Maybe this detail could be mentioned in the AC section.
 
Why is Adamant not slashed on Choice Scarf Jirachi? It should arguably be the first slash.
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Though there is no longer any need to tie with +1 Mence, Scarf Flygon has become hugely more common. Also, it helps against other Jirachi, and some Agility Metagross. Also, if you use trick, you can still tie with Shaymin, Zapdos, non-scarf Flygon, Celebi, and other Jirachi and beat Jolly lucario. Nonetheless, an AC mention, if there is not one already, should be added.
 
jc104 said:
Though there is no longer any need to tie with +1 Mence, Scarf Flygon has become hugely more common. Also, it helps against other Jirachi, and some Agility Metagross. Also, if you use trick, you can still tie with Shaymin, Zapdos, non-scarf Flygon, Celebi, and other Jirachi and beat Jolly lucario. Nonetheless, an AC mention, if there is not one already, should be added.
Click to expand...

Then how come Adamant is slashed on Choice Scarf Flygon?

Also, not all Choice Scarf Jirachi have Trick.

Anyway, speed ties are stupid. Why would you want to risk being hit by a super effective move? The extra power is arguably more important.

Adamant outspeeds everything it needs to, including: Modest SubPetaya Empoleon, DD Gyarados, DD Tyranitar, and DD Dragonite.
 
And.... ScarfRotom. I always found the power of Adamant noticeable. Also, Zen Headbutt deserves a 4th move slash on Scarf Jirachi. It revenge OHKOs Breloom and Infernape, does more to Machamp, and 2HKOs Scarf Rotom with Stealth Rock.

How often do these bulky subs actually matter? I'd assume that the increaased power would be a higher priority, as we don't want Jolteon becoming dead weight once it's done its job. The alternate spread is listed for a reason, and there it should stay.
Click to expand...
It matters every time you pass a Substitute. Since the idea of the set is to pass the Substitute to a counter and still be up since Jolteon is the fastest OU pokemon in the damn tier, it can get a Subpass off. More HP means it is less likely to break on the pokemon you pass to. Sweeping is not even the focus of the set at all. If you look at this logically, passing a Substitute on a pokemon with NO HP investment at all makes no sense.
 
In the Raticate Guts analysis:

Crunch is the better option for a Dark attack, as most of the targets for it that Raticate should be facing (Rotom, Drifblim, Shedinja, Banette, Solrock, Lunatone) are all slower than him. Froslass is the exception here.
Click to expand...
Since Froslass is BL, I would think that Sucker Punch is no longer worthy of a slash, as she was the only reason you would use Sucker Punch over Crunch.
 
I'm not sure if this is the right place to put this but in the HG/SS legendary catching guide I think that Heal Block and Worry Seed should be mentioned in catching Kyogre and Groudon respectively as it stops the Heal of Aqua Ring for Kyogre and prevents Groudon from using Rest.

EDIT: Forget about Worry Seed on Groudon as it prevents you from putting it to sleep. >.<
 
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