All Gens Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer Mark II (RoA edition)

[xJoelituh]

Why is Zapdos so much better in Generation 6 OU than Generation 5 OU? It didn't get a mega evolution, it didn't get any new good moves, and none of its good moves were buffed in Generation 6 (except maybe defog removing sticky web).

You replied yourself, Defog is the reason Zapdos got better in the first place, plus checking some stuff that are more common in XY, like MPinsir, Talonflame. It's not a bad mon in BW but there are better electric types in general, and it's a bit useless against some playstyles(DragMag), so you would rather have something else that hits harder or does a better defensive role than Zapdos.

 

[sumwun]

Why is Zapdos so much better in Generation 6 OU than Generation 5 OU? It didn't get a mega evolution, it didn't get any new good moves, and none of its good moves were buffed in Generation 6 (except maybe defog removing sticky web).

I just remembered that defog doesn't remove stuff on the user's side of the field in Generation 5. That explains everything.

 

[BKC]

lack of permanent weather also makes zapdos a LOT tougher to kill so that helps. it doesn't even need to defog, a bulky 3 attacks set is nice because it can go toe-to-toe with a ton of offensive pokemon and can even run static as the ability.

 

[Misdreavus]

I'm not sure how recently the R/S OU analyses have been updated, but what are the most commonly used Jirachi sets nowadays?

For that matter, what would be a good moveset for a Timid Jirachi in R/S (I'm playing on cart, so no max IVs, which means no 101 HP Substitutes), and what would be good numbers to hit with the EVs?

 

[BKC]

offensive cm/psychic/fire punch/hp grass (sometimes tbolt + ice punch for coverage), usually the obvious lefties but rarely lum; spdef wish/protect/body slam/fire punch; and physdef wish/protect/toxic/fire punch. wish/sub cm make rare(r) appearances and sometimes a mixed dynamicpunch set pops up.

 

[Misdreavus]

offensive cm/psychic/fire punch/hp grass (sometimes tbolt + ice punch for coverage), usually the obvious lefties but rarely lum; spdef wish/protect/body slam/fire punch; and physdef wish/protect/toxic/fire punch. wish/sub cm make rare(r) appearances and sometimes a mixed dynamicpunch set pops up.

Thanks. Those are all Timid? I would think that the Specially Defensive set would run Calm and the Physically Defensive set would run Bold. What Speed stat/benchmark should I hit on the offensive set? Would the defensive sets just be 252 HP / 252 (S)Def?

 

[BKC]

offensive sets are timid but CAN run modest. 328, ~300, 270 are the benchmarks. spdef sets run sassy (bslam), physdef (includes wishcm) runs bold, 241 outruns magneton and endeavor pert, defensive zapdos/celebi can hang around that area too.

 

[sumwun]

What was the point in having a banlist in the first two generations when banning a centralizing Pokemon from OU would just cause the next Pokemon to become centralizing?

 

[Ortheore]

What was the point in having a banlist in the first two generations when banning a centralizing Pokemon from OU would just cause the next Pokemon to become centralizing?

js although something being centralising correlates with being broken, it's not always the case so they shouldn't be used interchangeably. A thing can be centralising without being broken (e.g. almost every RBY team runs Egg) or broken without being centralising (arguably baton pass in oras before whatever ban is used got implemented- is that abomination of a complex ban still used? I can't remember).

As for the question at hand, I think it was just a generally accepted consensus to not play with "uber"/mythical pokemon, since in the earliers gens it's a pretty clear distinction. Of course, it only somewhat correlates with actual competitive performance, resulting in gsc's banlist being total nonsense from a modern competitive mindset (Lax remaining unbanned while the respective gsc legendaries are banned despite Lax being better, significantly so if comparing to ho-oh, just doesn't add up).

Furthermore centralisation and brokenness exist on a spectrum- sure RBY Tauros is kinda centralising and slightly broken, but that's nothing compared to Mewtwo, which renders the game arguably unplayable due to how incredibly broken it is. Last I checked on the state of Mewbers it heavily revolved around SD/Reflect Mews trying to stall each other out, which isn't healthy either. Mew being broken is also something that's a pretty easy assumption to make based on its bst and movepool. Ban those two and you arrive at RBY OU, which isn't perfect, but it's still pretty good. At some point you have to accept that there just aren't enough pokemon of similar viability for a tier that isn't centralised (fwiw the closest to this in rby is pokemon perfect's 3u), but that doesn't mean settling for something that is blatantly terrible

 

[Lavos]

Does anyone have experience hosting a NetBattle server (0.9.6) and could explain which port to open? NoIp says the app defaults to port 30000 but I try to enable this in port forwarding on my local router and it won't connect. Additionally I can connect locally to my server by using localhost 127.0.0.1 but when I try to connect with my public IP and/or my NoIP host lavos.zapto.org it will display the message "Connection was forcefully rejected!" This is different from trying to connect to one of the dead servers as it'll display "Host not found" instead.

I would also be interested if anyone knows how to revive the server list as it's only been dead for a few years tops...that would make the problem of connecting with IPs obsolete.

 

[OrangeGuru]

I'm not sure if this is exactly the right thread to post this, but I've got a question surrounding Gen 2 mechanics implemented on Showdown (hence it doesn't really belong in the RoA research thread and it's not really Smogon related hence not asking their SQSA thread). Anyways, I was in a Gen 2 random battle and my opponent had already put my RestTalk Typhlosion to sleep, and a little later they were able to put my Electrode to sleep (thankfully I had a Miracle Berry). Is this somehow a violation of Sleep Clause? The only thing I can think of is that my Typhlosion called Rest with Sleep Talk, but I had yet to wake up at all yet. Does this reset the sleep status to self-induced, allowing another poke to be put to sleep?

Here's the replay in question if it helps: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2randombattle-685192268 (Turn 5 Typhlosion is put to sleep, Turn 6 I call Rest with Sleep Talk and then Turn 19 Electrode is put to sleep, but saved by the Miracle Berry)

 

[MANNAT]

I'm not sure if this is exactly the right thread to post this, but I've got a question surrounding Gen 2 mechanics implemented on Showdown (hence it doesn't really belong in the RoA research thread and it's not really Smogon related hence not asking their SQSA thread). Anyways, I was in a Gen 2 random battle and my opponent had already put my RestTalk Typhlosion to sleep, and a little later they were able to put my Electrode to sleep (thankfully I had a Miracle Berry). Is this somehow a violation of Sleep Clause? The only thing I can think of is that my Typhlosion called Rest with Sleep Talk, but I had yet to wake up at all yet. Does this reset the sleep status to self-induced, allowing another poke to be put to sleep?

Here's the replay in question if it helps: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2randombattle-685192268 (Turn 5 Typhlosion is put to sleep, Turn 6 I call Rest with Sleep Talk and then Turn 19 Electrode is put to sleep, but saved by the Miracle Berry)

Sleep clause only applies to opponent inflicted sleep

 

[OrangeGuru]

Sleep clause only applies to opponent inflicted sleep

I know that. So as I asked in my question, does that mean calling Rest with Sleep Talk (even tho the initial sleep was inflicted by the opponent) resets it to self-inflicted sleep?

 

[MANNAT]

I know that. So as I asked in my question, does that mean calling Rest with Sleep Talk (even tho the initial sleep was inflicted by the opponent) resets it to self-inflicted sleep?

sorry that's what i meant, calling rest basically resets it and turns it into self inflicted sleep

 

[OrangeGuru]

sorry that's what i meant, calling rest basically resets it and turns it into self inflicted sleep

Thanks for the answer. That's quite an odd quirk in the mechanic, just about to the point of a loophole (since you can sleep a supposed sleep absorber - RestTalker - and still have a way to sleep other pokes w/o the RestTalker waking up from the initial inflicted sleep). I wonder if Sleep Talk-called Rest flipping to self-infliction of sleep could / should be looked at since Showdown implemented the Sleep Clause in the first place? Not easy to abuse in the Gen 2 meta by any stretch, but it seems just a little unfair in specific situations. Again thanks for the answer on this interesting part of the mechanic!

 

[Merritt]

Thanks for the answer. That's quite an odd quirk in the mechanic, just about to the point of a loophole (since you can sleep a supposed sleep absorber - RestTalker - and still have a way to sleep other pokes w/o the RestTalker waking up from the initial inflicted sleep). I wonder if Sleep Talk-called Rest flipping to self-infliction of sleep could / should be looked at since Showdown implemented the Sleep Clause in the first place? Not easy to abuse in the Gen 2 meta by any stretch, but it seems just a little unfair in specific situations. Again thanks for the answer on this interesting part of the mechanic!

I mean personally speaking it seems pretty reasonable the way it's currently implemented - your decision to use sleep talk on a Pokemon with rest and calling rest makes it your self inflicted status. You do get the healing when you call rest after all.

Hell I'd argue that implementing it the other way around is more abusable, since a sleep talk called rest sleep lasts for only the normal number of rest sleep turns instead of the rather high opponent inflicted sleep status.

 

[OrangeGuru]

I mean personally speaking it seems pretty reasonable the way it's currently implemented - your decision to use sleep talk on a Pokemon with rest and calling rest makes it your self inflicted status. You do get the healing when you call rest after all.

Hell I'd argue that implementing it the other way around is more abusable, since a sleep talk called rest sleep lasts for only the normal number of rest sleep turns instead of the rather high opponent inflicted sleep status.

My point wasn't to say that all Sleep Talk-called Rests shouldn't flip to self-inflicted status, just ones where the initial sleep was actually caused by the opponent - as in where you are still under the influence of the opponent's sleep (which as I say it, it seems really hard to actually code for, but I wouldn't know anything about that aspect hence me simply raising the prospect of more discussion).

I understand the idea of "punishing" the use of self-inflicted sleep and therefore the calling of Rest by Sleep Talk in that instance (as in it doesn't activate sleep clause) because that would be easy to abuse. I suppose I just got put in a really bad spot considering my one chance to use sleep talk called rest rather than an attack and then I got forced out by a counter (which was bad because I only had one sleep absorber).

Thanks for your perspective.

 

[Capt Forest]

in Emerald can dragonite legally have haze and light screen on the same set?

 

[Fakes]

in Emerald can dragonite legally have haze and light screen on the same set?

No, since only the Natu line and Smeargle learn Haze and Light Screen simultaneously, neither of which are in Dratinis Egg Groups.

 

[Capt Forest]

No, since only the Natu line and Smeargle learn Haze and Light Screen simultaneously, neither of which are in Dratinis Egg Groups.

thank you. Dragonite is killing me with these damn egg moves and heal bell. I want a solid support dragonite but its all conflicting

 

[Zokuru]

thank you. Dragonite is killing me with these damn egg moves and heal bell. I want a solid support dragonite but its all conflicting

Something you can try is running another beller and use Wish Mence in place of Dragonite, I'm not sure this is the right place to give you that advice but I don't think it will bother someone so ...

 

[Capt Forest]

Something you can try is running another beller and use Wish Mence in place of Dragonite, I'm not sure this is the right place to give you that advice but I don't think it will bother someone so ...

i only play cartridge. I am not sure how to go about getting a wishing sally

 

[Zokuru]

i only play cartridge. I am not sure how to go about getting a wishing sally

It was an event sadly

 

[Capt Forest]

I want some opinions on this build for a blastoise using the move hydro cannon. Third gen builds only pl0x

blastoise
Modest
SpA 252
Spe 252
hp 4
salac berry

Hydro canon
surf/ rain dance/ rapid spinn
substitue
icebeam/rain dance

Other moves could be mirror coat or counter. I am just looking to make use of the cool move blast cannon and torrent together. Rain dance would make it even deadlier but probably not practical to set up. I think that rapid spin is a decent choice cause i am going to be maxing speed so it can spin faster and give this thing a bit of utility instead of so much novelty.

I am pretty much just looking to make a novelty set with Hydro cannon that abuses torrent.

EDIT: I AM THE 1000th post in this thread :)

 

[Enigami]

Blissey, Milotic, Suicune and Starmie laugh at that set, Aerodactyl and Jolteon are faster than 252 +1 Modest Blastoise, and Celebi (even with 252+ Modest Ice Beam) can wall you, but provided you're facing a Swampert team without Blissey or Celebi, it should work as much as a Hydro Cannon Blastoise possibly could. Also expect an opponent with DD Salamence or DD Tyranitar to sweep you immediately after you use Hydro Cannon if you manage to KO something with it.

Here's the best I could come up with to work with what you want:
Blastoise @ Salac Berry
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 24 HP / 252 SpA / 232 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Cannon
- Toxic / Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin
- Substitute

232 speed at +1 outspeeds Jolly Dugtrio, and also lets Blastoise set up a sub against opposing Waters, with the rest of the EVs dumped in HP. More speed beyond that doesn't help as far as I can tell. Toxic gives Blastoise a more lasting presence by crippling opposing Pokemon, while Ice Beam helps against Flygon, Salamence and Celebi. Ideally you'd want to fire the Hydro Cannon on the turn it would die from passive damage (sand, Toxic/Burn) so the enemy can't abuse the recharge turn.