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Attitude problems
- Thread starter Skymin_Flower
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I am tired of hearing that someone that cannot grow a thicker skin on the internet shouldn't be on it ; some insults are bound to get to you, whatever the medium used.
Even on the internet should some form of social etiquette be imposed, which is partly the job of the moderation staff. Your pants are not entirely ripped off, or at least they shouldn't be.
Besides, don't make a generalisation out of your own introspection, we're not all 'dicks' held in chains only by social barriers.
This second paragraph really
well
Fuck vineon your signature is horrifying.
and what does it have to do with Nicola Sirkis?
wake up and smell the ozone, vincent. The anonymity of the internet guarantees that people will be dicks and there is nothing you can do about it. If you can't handle the barrage of insults thrown at you in the internet, you shouldn't be there because nobody is going to stop it. What do you think? That if a small bunch of people start to act in a different way others will follow? The internet doesn't work like that. People do things if they want; if there's a common goal that emerges it's never through any persuasion (see 4chan).
I am not going to make a forum "user-friendly" because it'd be less fun and, more importantly, because I don't care if I create some tiny politically-correct bubble in the internet when the rest of it is raging away. Of course the internet is more hostile to idiots. Well guess what, I don't feel the need to pander to them. You want to care about every single mouthbreathing fucker on the planet? Go ahead, but I won't because there are just too many to care about. Leave the stupid behind, let natural selection take its course.
Besides, I fully subscribe to the belief that the problem lies in the person being insulted. The insultee has the problem, not the insulter. The flamer doesn't give a shit if the other person gets annoyed or not, so why change his actions? Finally, I have enough of following social etiquette in real life and it is a fucking pain in the ass, as necessary as it may be. Fuck anyone who thinks that the internet should succumb to the same straightjackets that bind us in the real world.
I haven't really been lurking that long, and this is my first post, but give this place a break, dude. I mean, when I first heard about competetive pokemon, I was like, "Tch. Bet they're all elitist jerks." Then I came here.
Look, man, maybe it seems elitist to you, but for a competitive gaming forum, this place is very relaxed. Seriously. Why start problems with a thread like this? It just brings up bad feelings.
Look, man, maybe it seems elitist to you, but for a competitive gaming forum, this place is very relaxed. Seriously. Why start problems with a thread like this? It just brings up bad feelings.
good first post welcome to smogan.
Smogon elitism drives people away?
It isn't elitism.
IT IS TROLL-SCIAL DARWINISM, SURVIVAL OF THE WITT(i)EST
ONLY THE BEST SURVIVE
It isn't elitism.
IT IS TROLL-SCIAL DARWINISM, SURVIVAL OF THE WITT(i)EST
ONLY THE BEST SURVIVE
I have a great attitude.
Deal with it. You will get shit on the internet, and you will get shit in real life, but that doesn't mean that you have to take it so seriously and publicly complain about it.
By the way, the worst thing you can do on the internet is feed the trolls that pissed you off to begin with. (Skip to 1:00 if you need a refresher)
It's kind of a cliche at this point, but if you don't react to troll-types, they generally don't care to troll you any more
By the way, the worst thing you can do on the internet is feed the trolls that pissed you off to begin with. (Skip to 1:00 if you need a refresher)
It's kind of a cliche at this point, but if you don't react to troll-types, they generally don't care to troll you any more
I kind of agree with Vineon to an extent, because we're all quick to jump up and say "deal with it" when others are being offended. But once something happens that causes offense to us, we get upset. I don't care how tough you say you are, nobody has perfectly thick skin. None of us are capable of taking insults indefinitely, and people who pretend they are are lying. Fact: Everyone has a button that can be pushed. Patience varies between people, and some have longer fuses than others, but everyone has their boiling point.
Also, to say that if a small group of people changed how they acted that others wouldn't follow isn't something you can say for sure. I've found in my experiences on the internet that if I am a polite and respectful person, people will more often than not reciprocate. Occasionally you get those complete douches that will simply flame away because they find it fun, but most people have SOME feelings, and will respond to how you behave. I believe (and this is just my opinion) that a culture of respect CAN be created and upheld on the internet, it just takes a LOT of time and patience to get everyone on board. Most of the time people don't have that kind of patience, so they give up and resort back to the old ways. But it is a possible goal. Also I don't think social etiquette is a bad thing. Life is much more pleasant if people act pleasant. You can't tell me some asshole screaming profanity in your face makes you happier than someone giving you a compliment or starting a genuine conversation with you.
Bottom line: Are we elitist? Not as a whole, but there are some elitists out there (as there would be anywhere). Can things be changed? Sure. Are they likely to? Nope.
Also, to say that if a small group of people changed how they acted that others wouldn't follow isn't something you can say for sure. I've found in my experiences on the internet that if I am a polite and respectful person, people will more often than not reciprocate. Occasionally you get those complete douches that will simply flame away because they find it fun, but most people have SOME feelings, and will respond to how you behave. I believe (and this is just my opinion) that a culture of respect CAN be created and upheld on the internet, it just takes a LOT of time and patience to get everyone on board. Most of the time people don't have that kind of patience, so they give up and resort back to the old ways. But it is a possible goal. Also I don't think social etiquette is a bad thing. Life is much more pleasant if people act pleasant. You can't tell me some asshole screaming profanity in your face makes you happier than someone giving you a compliment or starting a genuine conversation with you.
Bottom line: Are we elitist? Not as a whole, but there are some elitists out there (as there would be anywhere). Can things be changed? Sure. Are they likely to? Nope.
Me? Part of an elitist group?
That implies that there are people on my level B)
That implies that there are people on my level B)
OP, you have to realize that a lot of the people here that have bad attitudes are actually pretty angry in real life. They didn't do well in school so they are struggling to pay the bills, they don't feel/aren't respected, and they just feel as though life is out of their control. That is why they treat people on this site as if they are less intelligent. It gives them a sense of superiority that they wouldn't be able to have in the real world; a taste of success and of acceptance that they feel is otherwise impossible to obtain. This generalization includes mods. It could be a student that can't seem to get above a C and has many friends or a student that can't get below an A and has none. It could be a college graduate that can't find a job, or a college graduate whose horrible job has low pay and isn't respected. There's no real "profile" for these people. Not everyone is like this though. But a lot of people are. And they deny it because they know its true. When someone insults you for your intelligence over the internet, don't feel insulted; feel sorry for them.
EDIT:
EDIT:
Oh my fucking god that's the most ignorant thing I have ever heard in my life.
If you don't want to follow social etiquette, then maybe you WOULD BE BETTER OFF NOT BEING A FUCKING MODERATOR.
lol my life is pretty great and i'm a dick to everyone on the internet
hang in there cookie
Edit: Supporting the use of Bulbapedia for ingame. Serebii is a nightmare, you can't even right click links.
Wow, so this is how it feels to post in Policy Review
I would just like to re-state what was said before: "You should have seen this place in 2006."
If anything we have become a lot more accepting of new users.
The second point I would like to make is that this is a competitive Pokemon forum. We are generally all here because we like to compete in things including what is generally considered a child's game. Competitive people like to argue when the testosterone and adrenaline is flowing.
If anything we have become a lot more accepting of new users.
The second point I would like to make is that this is a competitive Pokemon forum. We are generally all here because we like to compete in things including what is generally considered a child's game. Competitive people like to argue when the testosterone and adrenaline is flowing.
Not locking this against my better judgement since apparently people are quite enjoying sounding off but for fuck's sake can you all please cut out the ridiculous hyperbole and generalizations. Both 'sides' are doing this and it is rather futile. For the most part no one in this thread knows the people they're arguing with well, and at least based on what I've seen during the past decadeish in the competitive Pokemon community none of you are painting a very accurate picture of what the average user here is like, or what most users here are like. It's funny too somewhat because Vineon (correctly) called out Miscellaneous for the silly generalizations he made, and then there is iDunno doing the same stupid shit on the other side.
This thread is pointless if you're just going to spout disconnected hyperbole from one extreme side of the argument at the other - nothing is going to come of that and I'm just going to lock this if it continues. If you want to make a point about something substantive you think should be changed here(or shouldn't be), great, but can we avoid trying to stereotype people that don't agree with us?
For what it's worth, I'm somewhere between both sides here. I've been part of a lot of cliquey little communities like this one, both on other websites and in real life, and I agree with people like Firestorm who are pointing out that we're a lot less elitist than most gaming communities are. I don't think that's inherently good or bad. Smogon started out a hell of a lot more "elitist" when it was new six and a halfish years ago than it was now and it's really strange to me people still try to portray it as elitist since the Pokemon forum mods are perpetually bending over backwards to try to rescue problematic posters from themselves and keep them from getting banned. I'd say the quality of the discussion on this forum and the behavior of users on it have gotten a little worse over the past few years, but because of that it's more approachable to new and "stupid/naive/etc." users than it was before.
Moderators of any forum have to balance trying to be fair to users and trying to maintain quality. There's a lot of ways this can be done, with varying bias to either side, but I'd say Smogon keeps itself pretty balanced, to the point where we're probably "too fair" to most "bad" users to really have the quality of the forum(especially in the Pokemon sections) where people might expect it, with Smogon's role in the community supposedly catering more to the more hardcore competitive types in a community about games that have historically been dominated by very casual sites like Serebii. There was a time in late Advance, early DP where most of the best players were posting a lot in our discussion forums and that just doesn't happen as much anymore, I think largely because of this shift away from elitism. There's obviously advantages and disadvantages to that, but this site does work to be more approachable than it has been in the past.
I don't think I'd want to spend much time on an internet where people had no accountability at all in the way cookie seems to want things, but I don't think being overwhelming politically correct the way Vineon would prefer it is necessarily the way to go either. I think in a community aimed like this one is a healthy dose of elitism is a good thing and that the players who attracted to playing this game the way Smogon sees it being played usually prefer that environment, but that shouldn't be an excuse to be an ass just because you can, either. It's never acceptable to be to be rude just for the sake of being rude. Some situations, I think, warrant it. But being aggressive that way should be a reaction, not the first line of defense.
Also everything I've been taught in college level psycho/soc classes has indicated that whole "omg people have terrible lives so they bully people!!" is mostly a myth and that you're more likely to do that with higher self esteem.
Also-Also Bulbapedia for life. Though I make liberal use of Veekun, too.
This thread is pointless if you're just going to spout disconnected hyperbole from one extreme side of the argument at the other - nothing is going to come of that and I'm just going to lock this if it continues. If you want to make a point about something substantive you think should be changed here(or shouldn't be), great, but can we avoid trying to stereotype people that don't agree with us?
For what it's worth, I'm somewhere between both sides here. I've been part of a lot of cliquey little communities like this one, both on other websites and in real life, and I agree with people like Firestorm who are pointing out that we're a lot less elitist than most gaming communities are. I don't think that's inherently good or bad. Smogon started out a hell of a lot more "elitist" when it was new six and a halfish years ago than it was now and it's really strange to me people still try to portray it as elitist since the Pokemon forum mods are perpetually bending over backwards to try to rescue problematic posters from themselves and keep them from getting banned. I'd say the quality of the discussion on this forum and the behavior of users on it have gotten a little worse over the past few years, but because of that it's more approachable to new and "stupid/naive/etc." users than it was before.
Moderators of any forum have to balance trying to be fair to users and trying to maintain quality. There's a lot of ways this can be done, with varying bias to either side, but I'd say Smogon keeps itself pretty balanced, to the point where we're probably "too fair" to most "bad" users to really have the quality of the forum(especially in the Pokemon sections) where people might expect it, with Smogon's role in the community supposedly catering more to the more hardcore competitive types in a community about games that have historically been dominated by very casual sites like Serebii. There was a time in late Advance, early DP where most of the best players were posting a lot in our discussion forums and that just doesn't happen as much anymore, I think largely because of this shift away from elitism. There's obviously advantages and disadvantages to that, but this site does work to be more approachable than it has been in the past.
I don't think I'd want to spend much time on an internet where people had no accountability at all in the way cookie seems to want things, but I don't think being overwhelming politically correct the way Vineon would prefer it is necessarily the way to go either. I think in a community aimed like this one is a healthy dose of elitism is a good thing and that the players who attracted to playing this game the way Smogon sees it being played usually prefer that environment, but that shouldn't be an excuse to be an ass just because you can, either. It's never acceptable to be to be rude just for the sake of being rude. Some situations, I think, warrant it. But being aggressive that way should be a reaction, not the first line of defense.
Also everything I've been taught in college level psycho/soc classes has indicated that whole "omg people have terrible lives so they bully people!!" is mostly a myth and that you're more likely to do that with higher self esteem.
Also-Also Bulbapedia for life. Though I make liberal use of Veekun, too.
lol you think smogon is the refuge of your garden variety playground bully? I know this community a hell of a lot better than you, and if you look around you will see some pretty damn successful and amiable human beings. For the record none of us go about openly insulting people, unless you consider the harmless taking the piss/light trolling that we indulge in. uDunno.
Whether you agree with my statement or not depends on what you value more: the quality of the community in general or keeping everyone happy-ish. I'm sure being shunned from this community is no big loss to anyone, and if it is then lol you have problems. Pandering to the stupid is something I will not tolerate because it lowers the quality of this forum, and the price of being slightly elitist is easily paid in comparison.
the only thing that matters is that this community thinks it's better for having me as a mod.
go tell the admins that you think I should be demodded, I'm sure they'll be very receptive
my 3.7 grade point average approximately matches how many times a day I try to insult someone
just in case I am under that, norulz you are a pussy for still revering Hazerider
also it is not wrong at all that people shed their painfully thin social constructs on the internet; in real life people often cover that due to stupid social pressures (or money) and it leads to a lot of roundabout gossip and bullshit like that
just in case I am under that, norulz you are a pussy for still revering Hazerider
also it is not wrong at all that people shed their painfully thin social constructs on the internet; in real life people often cover that due to stupid social pressures (or money) and it leads to a lot of roundabout gossip and bullshit like that
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