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Hydreigon
- Thread starter Vemane
- Start date
focus blast is used to hit tyranitar(4x SE)/heatran hard, especially if hydriegon is used in the rain where flamethrower/fire blast will have their power halved.
I've always thought the standard SubDreigon should be:
Hydreigon (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Levitate
EVs: 36 HP / 220 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Dragon Pulse
- Flamethrower
- Focus Blast
- Substitute
You don't want certain threats outspeeding Hydreigon when you sure as hell do not need Modest with that wide variety of moves; speed is more essential for making your Dragon more universally adept to the metagame it plays in.
Your main aim is to find the right opportunity to set up Subsitute, proceeding with its naturally high Special Attack and perfect coverage. HP hits a Leftovers recovery mark with which you have bulkier Substitutes to unleash and resist any Rotom-W/Tentacruel (for example) trying to break it.
This is where you force your opponent to make the wrong move and sacrafice the Pokemon which was troubling one of your other team members from sweeping. Hydreigon is there to derail and dismantle the opponent's strategy before they get chance to execute it.
Hydreigon (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Levitate
EVs: 36 HP / 220 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Dragon Pulse
- Flamethrower
- Focus Blast
- Substitute
You don't want certain threats outspeeding Hydreigon when you sure as hell do not need Modest with that wide variety of moves; speed is more essential for making your Dragon more universally adept to the metagame it plays in.
Your main aim is to find the right opportunity to set up Subsitute, proceeding with its naturally high Special Attack and perfect coverage. HP hits a Leftovers recovery mark with which you have bulkier Substitutes to unleash and resist any Rotom-W/Tentacruel (for example) trying to break it.
This is where you force your opponent to make the wrong move and sacrafice the Pokemon which was troubling one of your other team members from sweeping. Hydreigon is there to derail and dismantle the opponent's strategy before they get chance to execute it.
why would you go timid/252 with base 99 speed? base 100 you can make an argument for, but otherwise i can't see it. what does it outspeed? much better off going modest and making sure you can outspeed another speed tier.
Er, it actually has base 98 speed. -_-
Anyway, with +Spe nature and full investment, Hydreigon can outspeed CB Haxorus. It also helps Hydreigon outspeed other Hydreigons, set up a substitute while the other Hydreigon fires off a Draco Meteor. The other one will constantly reduce its own SpA, while your Hydreigon takes little loss in HP.
Also, I think this set needs a bit more bulk to warrant the use of Substitute. 36 HP EVs aren't enough to make Hydreigon bulky.
99, 98, not quite sure why you felt like you needed to go all out with the "-_-" but ok.
anyway, if it's haxorus you're concerned about then timid isn't necessary, considering only scarf runs jolly. draco meteor hydreigon also never run timid/max speed other than scarf sets. i cant think of anything youd need timid/252 to outrun, other than to match timid max speed hydreigon which is so rare it's not really worth doing. timid/x evs to outrun 252 modest hydreigon perhaps. but max speed is wasted. even beside that, you look at his sp atk stat and youll want to take as much advantage of that as you can.
I think flamethrower isn't enough powerful, fire blast is so better, ok it has 85% accuracy but that's not STAB already and 120 bp move is needed to do good damages (i think without life orb fthrower isn't enough to ohko ferrothorn eaven if there's no rain)
However fire blast has a significant power increase in the sun as well. Basically fire blast should always be the best option since 85% means you're going to approximately miss once per every six turns.
Additionally max speed timid isn't particularly, enough to outspeed jolly Haxorus should be sufficient.
Additionally max speed timid isn't particularly, enough to outspeed jolly Haxorus should be sufficient.
To beat Jolly Haxorus you have to use 248 Speed EVs. Is that one point of bulk really worth losing the speed tie to other max speed Hydreigon?
Physical Hydreigon
Trait: Levitate
Item: Focus Sash
Nature: Jolly
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Earthquake
Crunch
Draco Meteor
???
I have used this set to some success. Most people expect a special set, so this set surprises people somewhat. Earthquake for coverage, Crunch for physical STAB, and Draco Meteor. With this set, you can use Draco Meteor on an opponent, and keep on attacking with your physical moves. It's already very powerful with a high base power, STAB, and a good special attack, so I've reduced the power slightly in order to help outspeed other Poke'mon. And if you can get this beast in without stealth rock on the field, you are quite likely to get a couple of kos, due to the focus sash. It even OHKOs a Salamance in the middle of an outrage, for Arceus's sake!
The problem I'm having is with choosing the last move... suggestions? Keep in mind, once the dragon is in, it's not leaving except by fainting.
Trait: Levitate
Item: Focus Sash
Nature: Jolly
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Earthquake
Crunch
Draco Meteor
???
I have used this set to some success. Most people expect a special set, so this set surprises people somewhat. Earthquake for coverage, Crunch for physical STAB, and Draco Meteor. With this set, you can use Draco Meteor on an opponent, and keep on attacking with your physical moves. It's already very powerful with a high base power, STAB, and a good special attack, so I've reduced the power slightly in order to help outspeed other Poke'mon. And if you can get this beast in without stealth rock on the field, you are quite likely to get a couple of kos, due to the focus sash. It even OHKOs a Salamance in the middle of an outrage, for Arceus's sake!
The problem I'm having is with choosing the last move... suggestions? Keep in mind, once the dragon is in, it's not leaving except by fainting.
Outrage? Also, if you're using DM and relying on the sash anyway, wouldn't Naive/Hasty be better?
I would probably use Fireblast/fire fang in that last spot. Draco meteor sorta takes care of opposing dragons etc, and imo having coverage is a bit more important than outrage on that set. fire blast/fire fang will take care of steel types like ferro/forry that wall that specific set
Hydreigon should be full special or sometimes mixed. You should be focusing on your strengths.
Not only does physical Hydreigon work off your smaller attack stat, Crunch is a much inferior STAB than Dragon Pulse or Draco Meteor. Your Fire Blast also isn't as powerful.
There is little to no reason to go physical, and you gain a multitude of counters by doing so. Mixed Hydreigion pretty much does everything what pure physical Hydreigon does but better.
Not only does physical Hydreigon work off your smaller attack stat, Crunch is a much inferior STAB than Dragon Pulse or Draco Meteor. Your Fire Blast also isn't as powerful.
There is little to no reason to go physical, and you gain a multitude of counters by doing so. Mixed Hydreigion pretty much does everything what pure physical Hydreigon does but better.
Sub
Charge beam
Surf
Dpulse
normally 6-0's rain stall. That's all.
Das a set I made a while back. Heres it used correctly. And if anyone used it, they got it from me. And also, charge beam should only be used with rain, focus blast it too inaccurate for it to work correctly.
[replay]http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-harsha-vs-IfuckingLoveSushi--2012-03-23-5[/replay]
Charge beam
Surf
Dpulse
normally 6-0's rain stall. That's all.
Das a set I made a while back. Heres it used correctly. And if anyone used it, they got it from me. And also, charge beam should only be used with rain, focus blast it too inaccurate for it to work correctly.
[replay]http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-harsha-vs-IfuckingLoveSushi--2012-03-23-5[/replay]
Gastrodon with Ice Beam shits on like every special Hydreigon set.
I think what Stone Cold meant was that with a little support Sub Hydreigon can be an effective tool to bringing rain stall teams down to their knees.
Its like how every stallbreaker or mixed attacker doesn't 6-0 stall on its own, but with some support and clever playing, it can be a strong asset to giving the stall team problems.
Chansey beats Charge Beam Hydreigon, but if Hydreigon is capable of beating the other members on the team by itself, then Chansey will be under a lot of pressure to stay alive or otherwise you would get swept.
The set works. I used it myself. I also built the team Stone Cold used in that vid alongside him.
I think what Stone Cold meant was that with a little support Sub Hydreigon can be an effective tool to bringing rain stall teams down to their knees.
Its like how every stallbreaker or mixed attacker doesn't 6-0 stall on its own, but with some support and clever playing, it can be a strong asset to giving the stall team problems.
Chansey beats Charge Beam Hydreigon, but if Hydreigon is capable of beating the other members on the team by itself, then Chansey will be under a lot of pressure to stay alive or otherwise you would get swept.
The set works. I used it myself. I also built the team Stone Cold used in that vid alongside him.
Im doubting that set breaks through Blissey or Chansey, I could see it happen if you have an ass day maybe, but I am sure you can 6KO it with seismic toss before it gets too bad.
I don't think it is as viable as the rain version. Mainly because Heatran walls it, which is kinda bad.
Yeah, it can't. Although if Chansey is the only thing preventing them from being swept by Hydreigon, I would say you would have your work cut out for you.
Throughout the match, Chansey would need to watch its health and be played conservatively. Since if the Hydreigon player kills Chansey with help from teammates, things would be looking good.
Fire Blast/Dragon Pulse/Earth Power/HP Dark (or Dark Pulse/HP Ground)?
The set in question was Sub/Charge Beam/Flamethrower/Dragon Pulse, which is walled by Heatran. I can see how having another mon walled by Heatran isn't good for a sun team though.
I was reading this thread and I just thought I'd say that I think Earthquake is great on Life Orb Hydreigon. Even with a Modest nature and no Attack investment, Modest LO Hydreigon OHKOs Specially Defensive Heatran 100% of the time, and it can 2HKO's Specially defensive Jirachi. I wouldn't resort to using Earth Power or HP Ground, as Dark Pulse is too good to give up, and HP Ground doesn't OHKO Spedef Heatran and is much less useful against Jirachi. I guess they are options though. It'd be great if it could have Earth Power and Dark Pulse.