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np: Latios - "unban me"

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^^^ I fail to see the "ridiculous" part of it. Powerful, yes, but ridiculous? If it were overwhelmingly "ridiculous" you would think it would be used more than 31% of the time because everyone would want those "free wins" because people love that stuff. Same reason why people abused Yache Chomp.

You could argue that Wobbafett wasn't used much but was broken; but thats a bit different. Wobbafett wasn't considered very offensive at all and people didn't really want to use him on their teams. Also, his true potential as a wall breaker was overlooked when he was released. However, if Wobby were to be rereleased today, I would imagine he would be used a lot more than before because people would realize how good he was.

The difference with Latios is that his arguably broken set was already discovered, and everyone was already discussing it from the very beginning. No discovery was needed; all people needed to do was slap Specs Latios on his team and try it out.

Your argument that the general public is a poor representation of what is best is wrong. If something turns out to be insanely good (BP Scizor, Yache Chomp, etc.) then they will use it. Sure, Yache Chomp wasn't discovered for a very long time, but the difference here is that we knew about the potential of Specs Latios for a very long time.
 
Here are the current qualifiers, as of the final deadline (March 5th 11:30pm PST) for Latios suspect testing:

Upper Requirement:
Code: 
+---------------+------------+------------+
| Name          | Susp Rat   | Susp Dev   |
+---------------+------------+------------+
| AXIAL TILT    | 1,807.84   |   54.06    |
| BLUECOOKIES   | 1,767.41   |   54.09    |
| BRIAN MCCANN  | 1,784.17   |   51.23    |
| EO UT MORTUS  | 1,770.94   |   47.54    |
| LOS ALAMOS    | 1,781.11   |   53.06    |
| MR. PERFECT I | 1,764.13   |   53.62    |
| SAGAT         | 1,828.51   |   54.40    |
+---------------+------------+------------+
7 rows

Lower Requirement:
Code: 
+-------------------+------------+------------+
| Name              | Susp Rat   | Susp Dev   |
+-------------------+------------+------------+
| ACID RAIN         | 1,703.07   |   35.04    |
| AMERICA FUCK YEAH | 1,670.55   |   38.04    |
| ANDURIL           | 1,681.49   |   58.65    |
| BIGDADDIO         | 1,719.93   |   42.11    |
| CHARLIE DAY       | 1,717.71   |   51.79    |
| CZC6              | 1,657.30   |   44.90    |
| DOPPLER EFFECT    | 1,697.05   |   64.13    |
| ELEVATOR MUSIC    | 1,682.17   |   39.33    |
| ERMAC             | 1,656.31   |   36.89    |
| EXECUTIVE KOALA   | 1,713.57   |   55.00    |
| FLAMINGCHEN       | 1,692.74   |   64.24    |
| FLASHSTORM1       | 1,666.81   |   64.18    |
| G                 | 1,725.39   |   35.67    |
| GLITCHWRENCH      | 1,693.83   |   54.86    |
| GURU_TEST         | 1,664.12   |   53.74    |
| HAUNTER           | 1,732.72   |   58.99    |
| HAVAK             | 1,666.42   |   42.74    |
| HUNTOFTHELION.    | 1,659.62   |   60.33    |
| JESSE LACEY       | 1,736.41   |   60.80    |
| JLEI2K            | 1,829.13   |   63.18    |
| KILL ME SARAH     | 1,662.00   |   63.40    |
| LEADERBOARDER     | 1,679.24   |   39.73    |
| LELOUCHETHEMARTYR | 1,760.62   |   55.69    |
| LOVEDESTINY       | 1,742.75   |   60.84    |
| LOVERS            | 1,718.55   |   52.68    |
| LRT               | 1,738.10   |   59.14    |
| MACE WINDU        | 1,677.10   |   58.16    |
| MUFASAJONES       | 1,670.29   |   63.20    |
| M_DRAGON          | 1,684.46   |   54.76    |
| NUBCHOS           | 1,714.84   |   61.32    |
| OLD HICKORY       | 1,827.22   |   64.37    |
| PANAMAXIS         | 1,690.40   |   54.16    |
| PARAMYLODON       | 1,667.97   |   59.52    |
| PICKLESWORD       | 1,741.13   |   50.48    |
| PROMETHEUS        | 1,669.47   |   54.58    |
| REACHZERO         | 1,668.67   |   48.51    |
| SHINJ             | 1,696.13   |   64.51    |
| STEALTHROCK       | 1,660.07   |   48.03    |
| SULPHUR           | 1,717.96   |   54.63    |
| TAY               | 1,737.64   |   49.41    |
| THEFOURTHCHASER   | 1,655.01   |   38.11    |
| TOWER TITAN KG    | 1,708.78   |   59.21    |
| TRACKMANIA        | 1,689.03   |   51.75    |
| TWIST O FAT       | 1,719.38   |   46.55    |
| TWIST OF FATE     | 1,736.92   |   32.43    |
| TWIST OF FATE.    | 1,675.27   |   61.13    |
| VASHTA            | 1,729.97   |   57.18    |
| WAKALORD          | 1,656.61   |   48.63    |
| WDRO              | 1,657.98   |   57.18    |
| WHITE SANDS.      | 1,762.24   |   55.59    |
| _LATIOS           | 1,676.31   |   50.56    |
+-------------------+------------+------------+
51 rows
 
Woo, lots more people this time.

Also, chenman, some people didn't use Wobby back then because it really wasn't any fun to use. Also, this is the first test where I had to use SR :x
 
Phew,this whole time i was worried about even making lower req's,but it turns out that i have a secondary alt that somehow made it.:naughty:
 
In my experiences on suspect, I found the ladder to be more active than in the Latias test. I never had to wait more than five minutes for a battle.

Three accounts on the list are mine (Axial Tilt, Doppler Effect, and Tower Titan KG).
 
Kevin Garrett said:
In my experiences on suspect, I found the ladder to be more active than in the Latias test. I never had to wait more than five minutes for a battle.

Of course, a lot more people played this test... but sometimes I still had to wait 10-15 minutes to find a battle.

Three accounts on the list are mine (Axial Tilt, Doppler Effect, and Tower Titan KG).

Congratulations, that's impressive.
Click to expand...

chenman333 said:
The difference with Latios is that his arguably broken set was already discovered, and everyone was already discussing it from the very beginning. No discovery was needed; all people needed to do was slap Specs Latios on his team and try it out.
Click to expand...

Indeed, I expected a lot more from DD-mix set, but you're probably right here, the specs set was the most feard set at the beginning of the test and I suppose that it's still the most feared now that the test has ended.
 
Towards the end of the test i'd have to say that the specs variant became sorta obsolete.The only variant i was really running into was the scarf set.
 
I also found that this time the suspect ladder was much more active than during the testing of Latias (even though I didn't vote in that particular testing). I think the most I had to wait for a match was 2-4 minutes; the latter being very unlikely!

edit: the specs variant was indeed annoying to face and, with your checks out of line, he could do a lot more damage, obviously; I think, from what I saw towards the end of the test, people concentrated more on dealing with that particular set than any other; however, with that said, the Dragon Dance set was -somewhat- disappointing when I started using it as it wasn't (half the time) able to get a solid Dragon Dance without the fear of dying the next turn.
 
chenman333 said:
^^^ I fail to see the "ridiculous" part of it. Powerful, yes, but ridiculous? If it were overwhelmingly "ridiculous" you would think it would be used more than 31% of the time because everyone would want those "free wins" because people love that stuff. Same reason why people abused Yache Chomp.

You could argue that Wobbafett wasn't used much but was broken; but thats a bit different. Wobbafett wasn't considered very offensive at all and people didn't really want to use him on their teams. Also, his true potential as a wall breaker was overlooked when he was released. However, if Wobby were to be rereleased today, I would imagine he would be used a lot more than before because people would realize how good he was.

The difference with Latios is that his arguably broken set was already discovered, and everyone was already discussing it from the very beginning. No discovery was needed; all people needed to do was slap Specs Latios on his team and try it out.

Your argument that the general public is a poor representation of what is best is wrong. If something turns out to be insanely good (BP Scizor, Yache Chomp, etc.) then they will use it. Sure, Yache Chomp wasn't discovered for a very long time, but the difference here is that we knew about the potential of Specs Latios for a very long time.
Click to expand...

Boy, you sure don't seem to understand things. If you do not have a Pursuiter, Specs Latios wrecks your team. Simple as that. You might not have noticed because of your 3 steel team (which according to your posts was failing near the end there), but it's just simply true that it's broken. On the suspect ladder, it's ridiculous power might not have been apparent because everybody was packing a pursuiter, but I guarantee that if this thing goes OU, we will hear a LOT of people bitching about how they can't change much about their teams, or else they'll get swept by Latios.
 
Don't bother confirming your identity in this thread, and certainly do not post essays here. We will make a new thread for discussion related to the voter qualification process. Be patient, we are working on it. Until then, the topic of this thread remains the same -- discussion about Latios in battle testing.
 
Philip7086 said:
Boy, you sure don't seem to understand things. If you do not have a Pursuiter, Specs Latios wrecks your team. Simple as that. You might not have noticed because of your 3 steel team (which according to your posts was failing near the end there), but it's just simply true that it's broken. On the suspect ladder, it's ridiculous power might not have been apparent because everybody was packing a pursuiter, but I guarantee that if this thing goes OU, we will hear a LOT of people bitching about how they can't change much about their teams, or else they'll get swept by Latios.
Click to expand...

Are you sure understand "things"? More Latios ran Life Orb than Specs. Your own experience absolutely does not let you say that no Latios ran LO after a few weeks. In fact, the fact you didn't see a single Latios with LO in the past week or so probably indicates that your own testing experience was skewed, and was not an accurate representation of what was going on.

Anyway no use debating this. We aren't changing our minds. We'll just see how people vote in the end.

btw, my team didn't fail; my internet did, many times. Once I lost the requirements, I regained them on an alt in a few hours.
 
Uh, I saw way more Specs than Life Orb, way more.

While my primary suspect team packed a Pursuit user (CBScizor), I didn't find it to be the only possible way to deal with SpecsLatios. Of course, I'd always would send it in after a Draco Metoer, but more often than not I would paralyze it with Celebi as it switched in, go to ScarfJirachi to take the Draco Meteor, then U-Turn as they either switch (more often than not), or decide to be bold and Draco Metoer a second time. Then I would usually send in Scizor or Heatran.


I don't think Pursuit is mandatory, as Latios is suprisingly frail, with the infux of Tyranitar (Sandstorm). Of course, if you lack Pursuit you are going to need to run several steels, I ran LeadHeatran, ScarfJirachi, and CBScizor, in addition to a Timid SpecsLatios of my own, and I rarely found myself losing entire games to Latios, my suspect team was more stall weak than anything else, to be honest.
 
Wakalord said:
Uh, I saw way more Specs than Life Orb, way more.
Click to expand...
Really? The majority of Latios I've seen had Life Orb. I've seen about 3 different Latios sets. Life Orb, Specs, and Memento. None of them were overwhelming, the most annoying was the Memento set but I've seen Uxie pull if off better.
 
Suspect Latios

I still have to agree that Latios should stay Uber as it is much more of a sweeper in a sense of Life Orb, Specs, and Life Orb versions. You rarely see a Latios wall which will not sweep your team. As Latios could take out a whole team if its moveset is exceptional and the trainer is skillful. It should stay an Uber. Still some sets are feared, I think the specs is most feared... as I said before it could sweep a whole team.

I conclude my thought on Latios' suspect ladder.
 
Latios is OU
With specs, Draco Meteor hits really hard, but not much stronger than specspence's (most latios run timid). You could say that it is not SR weak, but latios cannot come in any physical attack, pursuit weak, 5 weakness to common types, and don't forget Surf/T-bolt are horrible moves to be locked in, since it means a sweeper (like Kingdra, Gyara, Mence, or grounds/t-tar if it is locked in t-bolt) gets a free boost and sweep you (I have won 90% of my battles against specs latios doing that)

Bronzong has done great walling any version of latios, and I have found things like CBnape with u-turn being very effective in the suspect ladder, and babiri DDtar sweeps a lot.
 
I have no idea how my rating dropped from a 1660 to a 1644 but now i hope things were record before the drop, otherwise i will need to raise it back up quickly (which im going to do now). At least my deviation is there n_n

Anywho, I personally don't know which way to go on this. I think Life Orb and Specs are managable, albeit extremely annoying without a Pursuiter. However, these sets just don't scream uber to me because you can deal with them. What scares me is the Memento set, and it has been scaring me for a while now. Latios is pretty much the perfect Memento user, and even though I was a strong believer of "Uxie does it just as well" at first, I have realized that with Latios' higher Speed Stat (that prevents that ever so important base 100 taunting you) and unpredictability (to be honest, you have no idea what Latios will be doing until he does it, while with Uxie, you at least know whats going to happen), it becomes almost too much to stop.

Now, during the testing period, all three of my teams could stop the Memento teams but they were all made to do so. Mamoswine, Scizor, Priority, Scarf, DD, Fast Substitutes, ect. all were able to stop Memento Latios from causing too much havak. So what? Well, I'm just showing that there are ways to beat it. But is it enough?

Right now, I feel it isn't. Like I said, there are ways to stop Memento Latios and the BP strategy but the fact is, it is so easy to set up and it almost requires for each one of your teammates to hold a way to stop Latios or Gliscor because if they get that one turn of set up ... well, you could be in a lot of trouble.
 
GFGuru said:
In fact, the fact you didn't see a single Latios with LO in the past week or so probably indicates that your own testing experience was skewed, and was not an accurate representation of what was going on

Did you ever use a team on suspect that wasn't 3 steels or used a pursuiter? Because if so that probably indicates that your own testing expierence was skewed, and was not an accurate representation of what was going on.
Click to expand...

Yes of course; I tried out all of my older teams that did have more steel,s had less steels, had pursuiters, or didn't have pursuiters, and they all worked quite well, mainly because they were offensive teams that don't mind letting pokemon dying and keep enough pressure so that various offensive threats have a difficult time for setting up. I didn't try any stall teams (because I haven't bothered making an original stall team, I just use Obistall with some mods), but their prevalence seems to indicate they hold up quite well too. I will admit that Pursuit was quite useful in beating Latios because it did actually guarantee a dead Latios. However, most of my teams that had pursuit already had pursuit anyway; Latios was not on my mind when I did put Pursuit there. I will say to you that I do not appreciate your pathetic attempt at being witty, or whatever attempt you were making by copying my statement.

Concerning the Memento Set: Actually, Specstios itself is a fairly reliable check to the Latios/Gliscor/Metagross BP strategy; mainly because when Gliscor is faced down by Specstios, he has a dillema; if he tries to get that SD in after RPing, he risks getting tricked with Specs. If he decides to Taunt, he risks losing his chance to Baton Pass an SD because he is 2hkoed by Surf.
 
M Dragon said:
You could say that it is not SR weak, but latios cannot come in any physical attack, pursuit weak, 5 weakness to common types, and don't forget Surf/T-bolt are horrible moves to be locked in, since it means a sweeper (like Kingdra, Gyara, Mence, or grounds/t-tar if it is locked in t-bolt) gets a free boost and sweep you (I have won 90% of my battles against specs latios doing that)
Click to expand...


I agree, although I'd like to mention that you probably win close to 90% of your games anyway, M Dragon.:jump:
Even with draco meteor, if it gets a kill, it will then have to switch out of your free switch in and help allow for set up due to the reduced power.

Although I'm not sure as to what I'd vote for; I'd have to do some thinking, and I'm to lazy to do this prior to seeing if I made voting requirements despite not having logged on with my main account in over two weeks.

Personally, while seeing a fair amount of specs, I also have noted a lot of CMers switching in on my magnezone and trying to set up.

I don't see the thread listing (potentially) eligible voters; has it been posted yet? If not, by when will it most likely be up?
EDIT:
Missed it on the previous page; checking it now, although I see I did make the lower requirement.
 
I only got interested in this the last few weeks(probably becuase I haven't been on shoddy much before then), however, what I saw was that Latios wasn't overwelmingly powerfull, specs had to face the same problems every choice poke did, prediction, and life orb didn't have the power to deal with all that it needed to. plus I could easily revenge kill it with Tyranitar/scizor. I never saw any of the phisical versions or the mixed ones, which suprised me becuase I saw them being hyped about in the moveset annalysis
 
Personally, I saw a lot of the mixed/physical latios, and for me those were the most frightening. 110 base speed + DD = exceptionally fast, so I couldn't outspeed it. My old team unfortunately had a lack of more then one priority user (metagross), so I was forced to get it to kill something and lock itself into outrage before killing it.
 
I don't think I'll get a chance to vote since my record is pretty horrible, but I still want to chip in my two cents.

I think out of all the sets, the mixed set is by far the most powerful. While it would seem the Specs version would be the best, the fact that after a Dragon Dance with a Life Orb, everything feels the pain. The fact Latios gets Draco Meteor for fantastic special stab as well as its impressive physical move pool just makes it all come together.

I'm not sure whether I would vote it to be uber, or to be OU, but I think that if it does go into OU, it'll end up as one of the top 10 pokemon being used.
 
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