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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 2 - Who am I to break tradition?

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Well, with Aldaron's proposal accepted, it'll be very interesting to see how the metagame develops. I really am surprised that it immediately got a supermajority, but pleasantly so.

I predict Rain Offense to either alter to a water move spam rather than SwSw abuse or vanish entirely, and Manaphy to be banned, since with the focus off SwSwers, he will be one of the main things Rain can abuse.

EDIT: Seen the new thread. It'll be interesting to see if Deo-N proves broken or not. The only successful nom I'm surprised about is Dory, I'd think that it won't get banned - since Drizzle was still present during testing, and should instead be next round, but we'll see I guess.
 
You were surprised about Dory? People are always complaining about him.

The thing I was unsure of was manaphy. If it was just him on his own as a water-type threat in a rain team, rather than having swift swimmers to blast through grass and other anti-water checks (or clean them up) I'd wonder how he'd turn out. He's still very powerful, but without that HO edge...
 
Arc Tech said:
You were surprised about Dory? People are always complaining about him.

The thing I was unsure of was manaphy. If it was just him on his own as a water-type threat in a rain team, rather than having swift swimmers to blast through grass and other anti-water checks (or clean them up) I'd wonder how he'd turn out. He's still very powerful, but without that HO edge...
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Well one of my reasons was that the other weather held him in check fairly well (Drizzle and SwSw being present during nominations), I wouldn'tve been surprised to see him nominated next time. Especially as he does have a fair few solid checks, unlike Landorus.

Manaphy is a bit of a toss-up, yeah, but with Rain offense already neutered somewhat, it'll be interesting to see how the Manaphy vote goes, aye. Since it only needs 50% to be banned, I wouldn't be surprised to see it go, but the new rules on abstaining may change that.
 
Hmm missed that bit in the topic. oops. I feel as though I'm more likely to vote OU than the rest of people anyway so sometimes I kinda feel like I'm missing something anyway.

With all that bold in the topic I missed the important notice. Next time make it a bit bigger size? That would make it stand out more.
 
lmitchell0012 said:
If you're looking for a counter to specs kingdra, why not just use blissey??
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Though the point is moot now that Aldaron's proposal went through, my medium-ranked team I just abused for the "inb4 ban" factor (sat around 1120 at a relative constant) used a DD Dra with Waterfall+Outrage, along with a Swords Dance Ludicolo with Drain Punch to make Ferrothorn less of a problem. Rain is a versatile weather, as were its best abusers.

That being said, interesting poll. I might test a Drought team now-should be interesting to see where Excadrill and Reuniclus end up.

BTW, why aren't the English names being used in the poll?
 
Alderons proposal is pretty bad. Banning swift swim + drizzle isnt making the game more diverse. Its not diverse that a whole type gets there main stab move shut down the whole game. I feel like people are just too sprung on rain and will do anything to keep it in the game. Even banning combinations of stuff just to keep it in.Thats just like saying you can use salamence but you cant use life orb or dragon dance on it. What the hell? It makes no sense. Its still a one turn set up for many water pokemon to sweep. A sand and hail dominated metagame is far more diverse. Only a few pokemon actually benefit from the sandstorm (dory, genie and chomp to a extent) which can easily be handled with a vote.I think its silly to hang on to rain for dear life like its a crutch.
 
masterful said:
My god Nat is not a kingdra counter. It is at least 3HKOd by HYDRO PUMP at max health
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nattorei is a kingdra counter masterful!get over it...it's not only a counter it's the best counter that one can find for handling all kingdra sets inside or outside of rain...learn the definition of the word counter...
 
Curtains said:
Alderons proposal is pretty bad. Banning swift swim + drizzle isnt making the game more diverse. Its not diverse that a whole type gets there main stab move shut down the whole game. I feel like people are just too sprung on rain and will do anything to keep it in the game. Even banning combinations of stuff just to keep it in.Thats just like saying you can use salamence but you cant use life orb or dragon dance on it. What the hell? It makes no sense. Its still a one turn set up for many water pokemon to sweep. A sand and hail dominated metagame is far more diverse. Only a few pokemon actually benefit from the sandstorm (dory, genie and chomp to a extent) which can easily be handled with a vote.I think its silly to hang on to rain for dear life like its a crutch.
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Lol... Do you feel the same way about Sun? Just about everything you said applies pretty well to Sun too. Sand and Hail teams aren't that diverse.

alexwolf said:
nattorei is a kingdra counter masterful!get over it...it's not only a counter it's the best counter that one can find for handling all kingdra sets inside or outside of rain...learn the definition of the word counter...
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Somebody's a lil' late to the party.
 
masterful said:
Nat at full health can either T-wave Kingdra (if it has it), or 2HKO with Power Whip (if it has it and it doesn't miss). HP Fighting won't miss, doesn't really waste a slot, and will 3HKO at most. That's what I'm saying.
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yes but while you are using hp fighting,a 70 base power unstabbed attack,i can easily switch out nattorei after seeing that u have it having lost only 30% health after leftovers and bring in one of the 100 things that can take a SPECS(lol),unstabbed hp fighting from 95 sp.attack...

hp fighting is too unreliable and is almost always outclassed by kingdra's other options(dragon pulse and surf)...end of deal!

Gah777 said:
Somebody's a lil' late to the party.
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true lol!but i couldn't help it after reading such nonsense...
 
alexwolf said:
yes but while you are using hp fighting,a 70 base power unstabbed attack,i can easily switch out nattorei after seeing that u have it having lost only 30% health after leftovers and bring in one of the 100 things that can take a SPECS(lol),unstabbed hp fighting from 95 sp.attack...

hp fighting is too unreliable and is almost always outclassed...end of deal!
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And then I switch to that,and you switch to this.

Nattorei still can't counter Specs Kingdra.
 
Kefka the god of magic said:
And then I switch to that,and you switch to this.

Nattorei still can't counter Specs Kingdra.
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poke y is a counter to poke x means:a pokemon y that can switch in any move that pokemon x uses,survive the next hit(not being 2hkoed) and stall it out,or ohko it or cripple it seriously for the rest of the match!nattorei can cripple kingdra with t-wave or outstall it with leech seed and protect...these are facts!end of deal!

and if you are going to say that natty is not going to be always in full hp i can say the same for another 100 pokes that you have in mind..
.eg.hippowdon must be in almost full life to counter baloonless dory,physically defensive vaporeon must be in almost full life to counter dory and the list goes on...

and finally is it so hard for you to understand that when you have a choiced pokemon and you use a hp that only helps you deal greater damage(by 5)to 1 poke(nattorei)and when that hp does only around 35% to this poke,you get easilly walled...choiced pokes(not scarf) use moves that either are strong and can dent stuff,or moves that offer reliable power...hp fighting does neither of these...it only makes you switch out after having dealt only 30% to nattorei(24% if it has protect)while you get easily walled by a fighting resist/immunity.
that's why i am saying that except if all that you care about is 3hkoing nattorei reliably,if nattorei doesn't have protect,hp fighting isn't worth it.ffs you have hydro pump to do the same damage to natty on the switch!anyway almost any sane player doesn't leaves kingdra in to nattorei in hope of 3hkoing it unless it is very weakened...
 
alexwolf said:
poke y is a counter to poke x means:a pokemon y that can switch in any move that pokemon x uses,survive the next hit(not being 2hkoed) and stall it out,or ohko it or cripple it seriously for the rest of the match!nattorei can cripple kingdra with t-wave or outstall it with leech seed and protect...these are facts!end of deal!
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Pokenub sent out Nattorei!
Kingdra used Hydro Pump!
Nattorei lost 1/3 of its HP!

Kingdra used Hydro Pump!
Nattorei has 1/3 of its HP left!
Nattorei used Leech Seed!

Nattorei used Protect!
Kingdra used Hydro Pump!
Nattorei protected itself.

Nattorei used Protect!
But it failed....
Kingdra used Hydro Pump!
Pokenub's Nattorei fainted!

Definition of counter: Being able to switch in on ANY of a certain mon's attack and either force out or outright kill.
 
Kefka the god of magic said:
Pokenub sent out Nattorei!
Kingdra used Hydro Pump!
Nattorei lost 1/3 of its HP!

Kingdra used Hydro Pump!
Nattorei has 1/3 of its HP left!
Nattorei used Leech Seed!

Nattorei used Protect!
Kingdra used Hydro Pump!
Nattorei protected itself.

Nattorei used Protect!
But it failed....
Kingdra used Hydro Pump!
Pokenub's Nattorei fainted!

Definition of counter: Being able to switch in on ANY of a certain mon's attack and either force out or outright kill.
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first of all seeing you not answering on my other arguments means that either you can't or that you agree with them...
and to finish this the real log is:

Kingdra used Hydro Pump!
Nattorei lost 1/3 of its HP!

Nattorei used Protect!
Kingdra used Hydro Pump!
Nattorei protected itself.

Kingdra used Hydro Pump!
Nattorei lost 1/3 of its HP!
Nattorei used Leech Seed!

Nattorei used Protect!
Kingdra used Hydro Pump!
Nattorei protected itself.

after these turns nattorei will have got back 4 turns of leftovers and 2 turns of leech seed which equals to:4*1/16+2*1/8(almost)=1/2 of life restored...so nattorei after 2 hydro pumps has only lost:66%-50%=16%!
so yes nattorei can completely wall kingdra!!!
 
no i am saying that nattorei is a counter,and in fact the best,to all kingdras!of course if you send in nattorei with 50% life you could get killed...
 
Kefka the god of magic said:
No.
The point is,that Specs Kingdra 3HKOs him.
You can't switch Nattorei in. It does like 44% to Natt minimum.
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wrong!a modest specs kingdra using hydro pump in rain against a sassy max hp/max sp.def nattorei:36%-42,5%.an average of 39%.so after some leech seeding and protecting kingdra will end up losing to kingdra...also don't forget that hydro pump has only 80% accuracy and 8 pps...
 
alexwolf said:
wrong!a modest specs kingdra using hydro pump in rain against a sassy max hp/max sp.def nattorei:36%-42,5%.an average of 39%.so after some leech seeding and protecting kingdra will end up losing to kingdra...also don't forget that hydro pump has only 80% accuracy and 8 pps...
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Few Nats run max SpD, and Leech Seed can miss, but yeah, that set can stall Kingdra for a while, but won't last against it (unless it has used up a bunch of PP beforehand)
 
masterful said:
Few Nats run max SpD, and Leech Seed can miss, but yeah, that set can stall Kingdra for a while, but won't last against it (unless it has used up a bunch of PP beforehand)
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hydro pump can miss also aspecially when u use it multiple times!leech seed has 90% accuracy and hydro pump 80%,so i think that the leech seed user has the upper hand in terms of accuracy and reliablity...

and nattorei if played carefully can pretty much stall kingdra for the entire match...i have done it countless times!just leech seed when they switch kingdra out and protect to gain some health!also u don't just switch in nattorei every time u see kingdra attacking...u don't recklessly switch out nattorei and expect him to kill the kingdra...and of course after 1 or 2 times that kingdra has switched out it must be very weakned by entry hazards and by the attacks that he took while switching in...
 
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