Old Mon BST/Ability Change Discussion

They couldve given Gengar a lot of more useful things than freaking Cursed Body if they were just going for consistency. Cursed Body for Levitate is a straight nerf and they know it and they cant talk about consistency when they have dex entries for Vika and Dicidueye praising their speed.
Dunno, maybe Ghastly Strength? AKA Sheer Force clone? Probably a bit too good on Gengar despite Assault Vest being a thing. It's main attacking options benefit from Sheer Force.
 
Actually this time it was sadly right, z moves that bypass protect, no way of stopping DD users above 80 speed without a scarfer after twave nerf where big red herrings, unaware being gone was the absolute death of stall.

Gen 5 gave us stall staples, gen 6 pushed the envelope and gen 7 is really pushing the offensive dominance thanks to some egregious wallbreaker choices and z moves as outside of 7 Pokémon in singles stall got nothing and lost one of its best anti fairy tools.

Really dude, stall is hanging by the skin of its teeth.
Just to clarify, Z-Moves do not entirely bypass Protect. Instead, Protect nerfs them, dropping them down to 25% of their usual power, meaning it does provide minor protection.

And even at only half speed from paralysis, +1 Base 80's are still slower the max investment Adamant/Modest Base 60's.
 
Dunno, maybe Ghastly Strength? AKA Sheer Force clone? Probably a bit too good on Gengar despite Assault Vest being a thing. It's main attacking options benefit from Sheer Force.
Even with Sheer Force, Assault Vest would never be a good item on Gengar. In AAA Sheer Force Gengar usually just runs Life Orb. There's just no reason not to.

But yeah, giving it a Sheer Force clone would make it slightly broken. It should have kept Levitate. Not a bad ability, but not a broken one either.
 
Even with Sheer Force, Assault Vest would never be a good item on Gengar. In AAA Sheer Force Gengar usually just runs Life Orb. There's just no reason not to.

But yeah, giving it a Sheer Force clone would make it slightly broken. It should have kept Levitate. Not a bad ability, but not a broken one either.
I'm referring to the Bulky mons that run AV. Most of which can easily Sponge a hit from Gengar and proceed to probably OHKO it.
 
I wonder why woobat got the HP boost and not Swoobat

Like was that a mistake on the programmer's part here because the only other unevolved pokemon to get a stat boost was Pikachu in XY and pikachu is, ah, kind of an exception to a lot of things. Even even then, Raichu got an additional stat boost
All this accomplishes is making Swoobat's marginal stat boosts outside of speed even more marginal.
 
Just to clarify, Z-Moves do not entirely bypass Protect. Instead, Protect nerfs them, dropping them down to 25% of their usual power, meaning it does provide minor protection.

And even at only half speed from paralysis, +1 Base 80's are still slower the max investment Adamant/Modest Base 60's.
Not on the switch, remember you have to paralyze then switch to a check, you are giving up two set up turns. This sets the flag for only scarfers to beat a 1.25 speed 2.25 attack mon of base 80+ speed in stall archetypes. In singles momentum is different if you don't want to sack.
 
Honestly I was hoping for a little more stat upgrades. Especially how much they did for gen 6. Though the weather buffs/mantine/dodrio/delcatty (lol)/chemico buffs are cool. I just wish that one day all "garbage joke mons" get a mega, bst, or evolution update one gen.
 
i know that you guys dont even remember this move: mud sport... it actually changed waay back on gen 5:

From bulbapedia: Mud Sport now reduces the base power of Electric-type moves by 67% on both sides in battle.
and guess who learns this... Mantine!
According to a dump of in-game messages:

Mud Sport
The power of Electric-type moves will be halved for five turns.

So it seems to have been nerfed a little.
 
I don't know if this Duggy's atk boost works on the non-alola form, if it does it will be great since it still has Arena Trap.
Alola-Duggy lost Arena Trap :(

Source:

Or does regular Duggy
According to a dump of in-game messages:

Mud Sport
The power of Electric-type moves will be halved for five turns.

So it seems to have been nerfed a little.
Bulba says it's like that since Gen6 :x

Generation VI

Mud Sport is now active for five turns, even if the user switches out.
 
Since you'd never leave Mantine in on a physical Electric attack even with Mud Sport, isn't Amnesia superior to Mud Sport anyways?

I mean I wouldn't run either. Scald / Roost / Defog / Substitute would probably be my go-to set, but that last slot is kind of filler anyways so I could see Amnesia putting in at least some work there. The thing is, even with an Amnesia (or Mud Sport) boost, most of the OU-relevant Electric types (Manectric, Thundurus, Magnezone etc) still 2HKO you with Thunderbolt, and it of course does nothing to remedy its mediocre physical bulk. Plus defensive boosting moves in general are kind of meh.

The one advantage I can see to Mud Sport is it provides some measure of team support, I suppose. Maybe a niche option for teams that don't like fast Electrics, but even then it's just not nearly as reliable as a better check like Hippowdon or Yache Berry Landorus-T, because there's no fucking way you're switching Mantine in on Mega Manectric or Raikou AND setting up Mud Sport in their face.
 
I find it hilarious that woobat got a stat increase.

I mean it's the only nfe to get stat buffed this gen and meanwhile swoobat is still stuck with a 425 bst, while crobat and noivern get to enjoy 535 bst's.
 
Isn't the Woobat Swoobat scenario the kinda same oversight as Beeheyem learning Steel Wing via TM?

Gen 5 truly has forgetable Pokemon (despite me liking Beeheyem a lot)
 
Not sure what you are looking at but there is an image in the OP with the information on it...
Hmm...I'm just seeing the tag (IMG) with no image displayed. I tried quoting the post to get the URL but that didn't work. I wonder why that's happening.
 
Gigalith will probably be very good against rain in doubles in VGC17 now. Running AV and max HP/Sdef, doubles Politoed can't reliably 5HKO it with Scald in sand and Pelliper is even worse, the burn nerfs even save him from that being a major factor. Tapu Koko can't reliably 3HKO with a max spA invested thunder with electric terrain up (not to mention the fact that auto sand ruins his 100acc making it a dodgy move choice). It's basically max speed in trick room as well and has STAB rock slide off of base 130 attack.

Sun for all intents and purposes won't be a factor in 17 due to a lack of good chlorophyll users and it's even nastier against hail.
 

Martin

A monoid in the category of endofunctors
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Mantine is a fucking monster now. I just fucking love plugging random 'mons into the calc.

252+ SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mantine: 309-367 (82.6 - 98.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 153-183 (40.9 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mantine: 207-243 (55.3 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after SpA drop and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 297-351 (79.4 - 93.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mantine: 210-247 (56.1 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mantine: 178-211 (47.5 - 56.4%) -- 31.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 48+ SpD Mantine: 157-186 (41.9 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

ALL HAIL
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top