-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Project Uber
- Thread starter Matthew
- Start date
- Status
and then letting rayquaza come in and get a free set up. or letting latios come in and get a free set up...
anyways, im just here to say that the absol set bologo posted does work. You need taunt though, or he is just set up bait for pokemon that resist dark
anyways, im just here to say that the absol set bologo posted does work. You need taunt though, or he is just set up bait for pokemon that resist dark
Gen, I like the concept of this thread and I wish to chip in.
I think this guy could be Uber strong:
Rampardos @ Choice Band
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
- Head Smash
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
I think it'll take a lot of support, but I want to see if it works well in the Uber environment.
I think this guy could be Uber strong:
Rampardos @ Choice Band
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
- Head Smash
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
I think it'll take a lot of support, but I want to see if it works well in the Uber environment.
i dont think rampardos will work. groudon is on so many teams and walls the hell out of him. he will NEED speed passed to him or trick room to be active. i just think it would be better to use all the support rampardos needs to help antoher pokemon, such as groudon or rayquaza
I don't think Rampardos is Uber Strong (well, it technically is uber strong but that's not the point). It's sitting at 236 Speed maximum and is very frail. It's attack score is also about equal to Groudon's, but at least Groudon has the bulk. CB Head Smash fails to 2HKO Groudon (fails to 3HKO Impish ones) and Dialga, and 80% acc can be punishing. If I wanted a physical CB powerhouse I'd have gone with Groudon, who can 2/OHKO everything in the game bar Giratina, who takes >40% and needs WoW to take Groudon down anyways, and Cresselia, who is super rare, and Gliscor, who is even rarer. CB Stone Edge will quickly take care of Lugia. While Earthquake may not 2HKO Impish Groudons, their Quake is a 3HKO back on you, and since they'll probably be slower and possibly try to swap in they can't do anything back pretty much.
Finding multiple switch ins can be tough due to its defenses. Head Smash recoil will hurt it too. But this is only theory, so who knows?
Finding multiple switch ins can be tough due to its defenses. Head Smash recoil will hurt it too. But this is only theory, so who knows?
My plan was to have Paralysis support to solve most of the Speed problem. Getting Rampardos in won't be hard with a handful of EVs and SS support; lest I remind you, he has a base 97 HP score, which is impressive along with a . I plan to have a powerful water behind him in the event a ground type (namely Groudon) shows up and begins to ruin my fun.
By the way, Jolly CB Rampardos vs. 4/0 Groudon: 47.95% - 56.43%, 100% 2HKO w/ SR down
But yeah, I trust your judgement in the fact that Groudon is better, so forget it.
By the way, Jolly CB Rampardos vs. 4/0 Groudon: 47.95% - 56.43%, 100% 2HKO w/ SR down
But yeah, I trust your judgement in the fact that Groudon is better, so forget it.
Well, I've just tested Raikou on ubers on Shoddy today (Like Gen told me to), and I found some surprising results. This was the damage statistics that Raikou could achieve against some of the pokemon in the uber metagame:
Raikou's Calm Mind Life Orbed Shadow Ball against Giratina-O
493 Atk vs 236 Def & 441 HP (80 Base Power): 312 - 368 (70.75% - 83.45%)
Raikou's Calm Mind Life Orbed Thunder against 4 Hp / 0 Def Palkia
493 Atk vs 276 Def & 322 HP (120 Base Power): 300 - 354 (93.17% - 109.94%)
Raikou's Hidden Power (Ice) against Max HP / 0 Def Groudon
329 Atk vs 216 Def & 404 HP (70 Base Power): 200 - 236 (49.50% - 58.42%)
Seeing that Raikou can 2HKO most of the pokemon in the uber metagame (barring Dialga, Blissey, and Specially Defensive Groudon), it's a given fact that Raikou is in fact, usable in ubers.
Raikou's Calm Mind Life Orbed Shadow Ball against Giratina-O
493 Atk vs 236 Def & 441 HP (80 Base Power): 312 - 368 (70.75% - 83.45%)
Raikou's Calm Mind Life Orbed Thunder against 4 Hp / 0 Def Palkia
493 Atk vs 276 Def & 322 HP (120 Base Power): 300 - 354 (93.17% - 109.94%)
Raikou's Hidden Power (Ice) against Max HP / 0 Def Groudon
329 Atk vs 216 Def & 404 HP (70 Base Power): 200 - 236 (49.50% - 58.42%)
Seeing that Raikou can 2HKO most of the pokemon in the uber metagame (barring Dialga, Blissey, and Specially Defensive Groudon), it's a given fact that Raikou is in fact, usable in ubers.
Life Orb Gengar - definitely works
Cresselia - works because of how easily it sets up reflect + light screen and then thunder wave switch ins. USE IN SUN
Hitmontop - Limbo, needs more testing.
The cresselia i have used so far is simply
cresselia @ leftovers
bold
20 hp / 252 def / 236 spd
- reflect
- ice beam
- moonlight
- thunder wave
i like this more than lugia because no sr weak, not weak to stone edge, and can take on stuff like palkia more easily.
Cresselia - works because of how easily it sets up reflect + light screen and then thunder wave switch ins. USE IN SUN
Hitmontop - Limbo, needs more testing.
The cresselia i have used so far is simply
cresselia @ leftovers
bold
20 hp / 252 def / 236 spd
- reflect
- ice beam
- moonlight
- thunder wave
i like this more than lugia because no sr weak, not weak to stone edge, and can take on stuff like palkia more easily.
About tests on CBTangrowth - it's quite dissapointing. Too many times something like Lati twins, Skarmory or Giratina (and some other options) switches in to make it really effective. With Adamant nature even without scarf some pokemon still outspeeds it even under sun. And with Jolly it doesn't have enough power. I need to say that this version also doesn't work too well, but a bit better then SD one. But right now I'm almost sure that Tangrowth doesn't work well in Ubers. At least offensive versions.
About Physical Wall Cresselia - after few more tests it works and with Groudon, Garchomp and Rayquaza being much popular it's viable. It makes her job in stopping most physical threats and can even handle TTar as most of them doesn't run Max Attack with Choice Band. You just need HP Fighting to win 1vs1 most of times. I'm running Reflect/Moonlight/Ice Beam/HP Fighting with 252 HP/150 Def/106 SpA Bold Nature. But I guess some status would fit here if needed. I think it would be nice to also try to test Lunar Dancing double screener.
About Physical Wall Cresselia - after few more tests it works and with Groudon, Garchomp and Rayquaza being much popular it's viable. It makes her job in stopping most physical threats and can even handle TTar as most of them doesn't run Max Attack with Choice Band. You just need HP Fighting to win 1vs1 most of times. I'm running Reflect/Moonlight/Ice Beam/HP Fighting with 252 HP/150 Def/106 SpA Bold Nature. But I guess some status would fit here if needed. I think it would be nice to also try to test Lunar Dancing double screener.
I've been using Cloyster a bit, and I'd say it's uber usable.
Cloyster @lefties
Impish/ Relaxed
252HP/252SpD (or Def, if youre up for that)/6Atk
-Rapid Spin
-T.Spikes/Spikes
-Explosion
-Icicle Spear/Ice Beam
The typical set for Cloyster in any tier works in ubers. Its nice to hit Giratina trying to come and block your spin with a super effective ice attack, and it sets up some T.Spikes and explode. It also takes physical hits really well,though not SE ones which are probably the only ones you'll see in Ubers beyond Garchomp (who he counters by the way ;) Whether or not it's worth using over Forretress is questionable though.
Cloyster @lefties
Impish/ Relaxed
252HP/252SpD (or Def, if youre up for that)/6Atk
-Rapid Spin
-T.Spikes/Spikes
-Explosion
-Icicle Spear/Ice Beam
The typical set for Cloyster in any tier works in ubers. Its nice to hit Giratina trying to come and block your spin with a super effective ice attack, and it sets up some T.Spikes and explode. It also takes physical hits really well,though not SE ones which are probably the only ones you'll see in Ubers beyond Garchomp (who he counters by the way ;) Whether or not it's worth using over Forretress is questionable though.
This might actually make a good replacement over Fortress, but too bad Fortress has more HP along with better resists. Even if you're going to lure Giratina in, I doubt you might even beat it anyways.
Hmmm, so I think we should consider Cresselia a "working" set. But I would also like to get all the sets she is using and figure out which is the best of the best.
Also thanks to Jibaku for helping to keep this thread up.
Also would it be worth it to consider Cloyster in the works section, or is he more limbo?
Also thanks to Jibaku for helping to keep this thread up.
Also would it be worth it to consider Cloyster in the works section, or is he more limbo?
Just a minute, did anyone even test to see if Cloyster works in the uber metagame (asides from being overshadowed by Fortress)
To gen,
I was wondering if I could test Shaymin-S to see if it is usable. Since I have reached a conclusion about Raikou (Calm Mind special-sweeper), I was wondering if I could have rights to test Skymin as well. Here is the moveset that I'll be using and I'll post the results immediately if I have reached a conclusion while using that pokemon.
Shaymin-S@Life Orb
EVs: 6 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Seed Flare
- Air Slash
- Hidden Power (Ice)
- Leech Seed
Pretty standard set here, since this moveset takes advantage of Skymin's STAB along with his respectable base 120 SpA. Hidden Power Ice is there to take down Dragons, while Leech Seed is there for recovery. I'll check to see if this set works or not tomorrow, if I have time.
I was wondering if I could test Shaymin-S to see if it is usable. Since I have reached a conclusion about Raikou (Calm Mind special-sweeper), I was wondering if I could have rights to test Skymin as well. Here is the moveset that I'll be using and I'll post the results immediately if I have reached a conclusion while using that pokemon.
Shaymin-S@Life Orb
EVs: 6 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Seed Flare
- Air Slash
- Hidden Power (Ice)
- Leech Seed
Pretty standard set here, since this moveset takes advantage of Skymin's STAB along with his respectable base 120 SpA. Hidden Power Ice is there to take down Dragons, while Leech Seed is there for recovery. I'll check to see if this set works or not tomorrow, if I have time.
If you're using a sweeper Shaymin-S set, Earth Power >>> Leech Seed. Without Sub, you lose to Blissey anyway. Earth Power hits steels like Jirachi, Metagross and Dialga. If they switch in on a Seed Flare, you'll be able to OHKO with Earth Power anyway.
lol, let me just tell you know Shaymin WORKS.
lol, let me just tell you know Shaymin WORKS.
The four attack Shaymin-s does work, I will add it in. Though someone should test SubSeed and Sub three attacks.
Sorry guys, you're never on #ubers and I really need to say this.
Not to down the project (I'm a part of it for christ's sake), but right now I think it's a joke. It's highly disorganized and isn't being taken "seriously." I highly doubt that a lot of the "completed" tests were A) extensive and B) really serious. Probably 2-3 battles and the stamp has been put on some of these. And those battles might not have even been against decent players. Another thing; I'm sure a lot of theorymon is thrown into some pokemon (agian, with limited field testing). Damage calcs don't mean squat, nor does having just the right moves; neither of those factors means it works for sure, and you can't undertest just because "it should work." Electivire can 2HKO a lot of common walls, but that doesn't make him good (ask anybody). Sure, a couple of battles can show you some things like if it's worth a bother, but theorymoning the rest of the results is utter bull. I've battled with Kingdra quite a bit, did good here and not so hot there; you don't see me slapping the stamp of approval on there and moving on.
I'm not trying to disrespect anybody that is working hard to get real results, but this is ridiculous. Post you're saying something, 2 hours later you post a result and call another one (exaggerated time frame maybe, but you get the point). This isn't a damn race, or is there a time limit. Suspect tests don't last 1 week, even if you can short-test the thing and theorymon the rest to gain an opinion in that short time.
This whole experiment needs reevaluated. It reminds me of the simple moveset thread. Most results are poor, incomplete, and can't be taken for real.
EDIT: Yes, I know there are some satisfactory results, and this isn't aimed at them so don't start throwing them at me.
Not to down the project (I'm a part of it for christ's sake), but right now I think it's a joke. It's highly disorganized and isn't being taken "seriously." I highly doubt that a lot of the "completed" tests were A) extensive and B) really serious. Probably 2-3 battles and the stamp has been put on some of these. And those battles might not have even been against decent players. Another thing; I'm sure a lot of theorymon is thrown into some pokemon (agian, with limited field testing). Damage calcs don't mean squat, nor does having just the right moves; neither of those factors means it works for sure, and you can't undertest just because "it should work." Electivire can 2HKO a lot of common walls, but that doesn't make him good (ask anybody). Sure, a couple of battles can show you some things like if it's worth a bother, but theorymoning the rest of the results is utter bull. I've battled with Kingdra quite a bit, did good here and not so hot there; you don't see me slapping the stamp of approval on there and moving on.
I'm not trying to disrespect anybody that is working hard to get real results, but this is ridiculous. Post you're saying something, 2 hours later you post a result and call another one (exaggerated time frame maybe, but you get the point). This isn't a damn race, or is there a time limit. Suspect tests don't last 1 week, even if you can short-test the thing and theorymon the rest to gain an opinion in that short time.
This whole experiment needs reevaluated. It reminds me of the simple moveset thread. Most results are poor, incomplete, and can't be taken for real.
EDIT: Yes, I know there are some satisfactory results, and this isn't aimed at them so don't start throwing them at me.
locopoke
Banned deucer.
At first glance, your post above looked like a just a bunch of BS, but after looking over it a couple more times it actually does make sense. I agree with you partly, about the fact that this isn't very 'professional'. The majority of people are doing a nice job and I respect that, but in other cases I see posts like "I'll be testing Cresselia" and then a few days later I'll see posts with a paragraph or two and some damage calculations proving that "it works". You can't determine if something "works" or not in 2 or 3 days, or even 2-3 weeks. Also it seems like people can just say "I'm testing [insert pokemon name here]" and they're automatically signed up. I don't know, I just think it should be taken more "professionally" if you know what I mean. Although don't get me wrong, I think this program you have here is great, I just think it needs some work.
edit: and btw Veedrock, I wouldn't expect Kingdra to work, I mean, it's basically like a weaker Palkia with a smaller movepool, with the exception of Swift Swim.
- Status