Actually Blaze is the better ability of you are going mega, as you don’t want your Zard coming in on sun before it Megas and losing HP needlessly
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Shiny Pokemon Experiences
- Thread starter Durant
- Start date
Well, that really solidified to give him proper training and use him in battles. And with Blaze, going mega is the best option.
I got this yday after 400 soft resets or so... yeah I know lucky. :) My husband asked me if I was cheating to get it.
I got special history with this certain pokémon in Gen II games... because I never got it as a kid. I was so sad that Nintendo didn't bring GS Ball event outside Japan (it was some mobile phone event). So yeah. after 18 years I finally got it in VC Crystal.
And yeah I wanted to SR for shiny so that I can give it to my daughter when she gets old enough to play the games (I might ask her to finish Kanto/Johto Dex though before I give it to her). :P
I've only had a couple shiny experiences in all my time of playing these games.
I used to breed for shinies using the Masuda Method, and during this I was lucky enough to hatch a shiny Shinx and a shiny Chimchar. It was definitely very exciting and relieving to finally get them after all that time.
The only other shiny experience that I can recall is when I surprisingly stumbled across a shiny Hoppip in a horde in X. The sad part about this is that I didn't see the shiny at first because I was distracted by something else and by the time I saw it, I already clicked the run button. RIP.
I used to breed for shinies using the Masuda Method, and during this I was lucky enough to hatch a shiny Shinx and a shiny Chimchar. It was definitely very exciting and relieving to finally get them after all that time.
The only other shiny experience that I can recall is when I surprisingly stumbled across a shiny Hoppip in a horde in X. The sad part about this is that I didn't see the shiny at first because I was distracted by something else and by the time I saw it, I already clicked the run button. RIP.
Spending 3000+ hours in gen 6 breeding, training and soft resetting, I've been bound to run into many shinies when I've played. However, even before that, I've always had quite little interest in shinies. Once I found out what IVs were and how that worked, I was more interested in getting perfect IV Pokemon. But that didn't stop me from catching and breeding a couple of shinies.
I think the first shiny I ran into was a Nidoran male with the poke radar in Platinum, which happened to be the very first time I tested out the Pokeradar and thus I thought "Oh, the Pokeradar makes these different color Pokemon appear 100% of the time, that's cool, I guess" and ran from the Nidoran.
The first non-Red Gyarados shiny I caught was Stantler, I knew what shinies was this time, but still didn't really care for them. It's lost to time now because it didn't really have much sentimental value to me so I didn't really care.
After that, I don't think I ever caught any shinies aside from stuff like the National Park Haxorus in B2/W2, so I didn't get another shiny until I decided to breed for my first shiny, my Qwilfish bred in AS that I named Poison Lips. Most of my Shiny experiences since then has either been something like "I hunted this and got it after x SR's" or "I ran into this while horde/SOS-chain training".
The only one I feel like noting after Poison Lips is my Shiny Zekrom that I called Tesla Claw. I soft reset for one for about a week, and when I got it, it was Gentle despite my Adamant synchronizer. I was pretty disappointed but didn't make a large fuss of it. The very next day I got another Shiny Zekrom and it was Adamant that time.
I think the first shiny I ran into was a Nidoran male with the poke radar in Platinum, which happened to be the very first time I tested out the Pokeradar and thus I thought "Oh, the Pokeradar makes these different color Pokemon appear 100% of the time, that's cool, I guess" and ran from the Nidoran.
The first non-Red Gyarados shiny I caught was Stantler, I knew what shinies was this time, but still didn't really care for them. It's lost to time now because it didn't really have much sentimental value to me so I didn't really care.
After that, I don't think I ever caught any shinies aside from stuff like the National Park Haxorus in B2/W2, so I didn't get another shiny until I decided to breed for my first shiny, my Qwilfish bred in AS that I named Poison Lips. Most of my Shiny experiences since then has either been something like "I hunted this and got it after x SR's" or "I ran into this while horde/SOS-chain training".
The only one I feel like noting after Poison Lips is my Shiny Zekrom that I called Tesla Claw. I soft reset for one for about a week, and when I got it, it was Gentle despite my Adamant synchronizer. I was pretty disappointed but didn't make a large fuss of it. The very next day I got another Shiny Zekrom and it was Adamant that time.
I have weird shiny luck when it comes to pokemon fan games.
I was playing pokemon vega after reading Merritt's let's play of it and I was grinding up my Mintch. As I'm grinding I come up across a shiny Mintch. I caught the Mintch however I didn't feel like grinding it up to the rest of my team I put it in my PC.
Another fangame I play is pixelmon. I caught a Mareep and Swinub to put onto my main team. A little while latter I found a shiny Mareep. I replaced the Mareep on my team with the shiny. A little while later I found a shiny Swinub. It was just to much for me so I boxed it. Yesterday I found another shiny Swinub so I evolved it and now it is a Piloswine. Now if I can get a third to complete the line...
The closest thing to this that happened in the main games is that I was chain fishing in Y with my shiny Octillery at the lead of my party. I was using random rods to try to switch things up and decided to use a good rod once just to add in some variety as my chain increased. I pulled up a shiny Remoaid. Now this was post game and Octillery wasn't part of my main game team but I did train it up to around level 70.
I was playing pokemon vega after reading Merritt's let's play of it and I was grinding up my Mintch. As I'm grinding I come up across a shiny Mintch. I caught the Mintch however I didn't feel like grinding it up to the rest of my team I put it in my PC.
Another fangame I play is pixelmon. I caught a Mareep and Swinub to put onto my main team. A little while latter I found a shiny Mareep. I replaced the Mareep on my team with the shiny. A little while later I found a shiny Swinub. It was just to much for me so I boxed it. Yesterday I found another shiny Swinub so I evolved it and now it is a Piloswine. Now if I can get a third to complete the line...
The closest thing to this that happened in the main games is that I was chain fishing in Y with my shiny Octillery at the lead of my party. I was using random rods to try to switch things up and decided to use a good rod once just to add in some variety as my chain increased. I pulled up a shiny Remoaid. Now this was post game and Octillery wasn't part of my main game team but I did train it up to around level 70.
My shiny luck has actually been decent in the past few months, thus this post
My first shiny (not red gyara) was a Zubat in LGPE. I was trying to chain for an onix or something in Mt. Moon and was just about to give up when I see this green flash on the side of my screen. I was so pumped! I also found a shiny Horsea randomly on the route below Lavender town.
More recently, I was trying out fishing chains in XY and found a shiny Poliwhirl, who is now a Politoed. It doesn't have the best ability (damp) but it's still awesome!
My first shiny (not red gyara) was a Zubat in LGPE. I was trying to chain for an onix or something in Mt. Moon and was just about to give up when I see this green flash on the side of my screen. I was so pumped! I also found a shiny Horsea randomly on the route below Lavender town.
More recently, I was trying out fishing chains in XY and found a shiny Poliwhirl, who is now a Politoed. It doesn't have the best ability (damp) but it's still awesome!
Hey guys, first time posting here!
I caught my first ever shiny this year, a Cottonee! It just so happens that it's also my favorite color - orange. I was level grinding on some Chanseys in Poni Plains when I encountered it. What's more, it had the Prankster ability and it was a helpful nature too - Timid!
And just a few minutes ago, I stumbled upon a shiny Xatu in Akala Outskirts! I wasn't even trying to look for a shiny Pokemon (I don't shiny hunt). All I was looking for was a Xatu for Pokedex completion sake and on the 20th sos ally, the Natu called a shiny Xatu! However, I actually had to be very strategic with catching a Xatu since the previous one I SOS chained used teleport to flee battle. By weakening it first, and then using toxic damage to kill the Natu ally, Xatu was unable to use teleport (since it fails if there's a partner on the field). Since about 40-50 turns had passed, I used a timer ball and now I have a shiny Xatu! Unfortunately, it's Adamant nature lolololol but I still can't believe (even with the increased shiny odds resulting from SOS battles).
It's ridiculous that I've gotten two shinies within two months of each other when in my previous 14 years of Pokemon, I had only encountered one shiny, which promptly fled (female Wobbuffett in the Safari Zone
).
EDIT: Wow, the day after, I ran into three shiny dittos within 3 hours of each other while attempting to get a 4 IV ditto. What are the freaking chances?
I caught my first ever shiny this year, a Cottonee! It just so happens that it's also my favorite color - orange. I was level grinding on some Chanseys in Poni Plains when I encountered it. What's more, it had the Prankster ability and it was a helpful nature too - Timid!
And just a few minutes ago, I stumbled upon a shiny Xatu in Akala Outskirts! I wasn't even trying to look for a shiny Pokemon (I don't shiny hunt). All I was looking for was a Xatu for Pokedex completion sake and on the 20th sos ally, the Natu called a shiny Xatu! However, I actually had to be very strategic with catching a Xatu since the previous one I SOS chained used teleport to flee battle. By weakening it first, and then using toxic damage to kill the Natu ally, Xatu was unable to use teleport (since it fails if there's a partner on the field). Since about 40-50 turns had passed, I used a timer ball and now I have a shiny Xatu! Unfortunately, it's Adamant nature lolololol but I still can't believe (even with the increased shiny odds resulting from SOS battles).
It's ridiculous that I've gotten two shinies within two months of each other when in my previous 14 years of Pokemon, I had only encountered one shiny, which promptly fled (female Wobbuffett in the Safari Zone
).EDIT: Wow, the day after, I ran into three shiny dittos within 3 hours of each other while attempting to get a 4 IV ditto. What are the freaking chances?
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Deleted User 465389
Banned deucer.
Edit: Can we get a #WhatTheFoongus in the chat?
#whatthefoongus
#whatthefoongus
Oh, this seems like an interesting topic. I will be direct.
My first shiny I remember it as if it were yesterday and already more than 10 years ago. I was playing Green Leaf Pokemon and I found myself in a small area of wild pokemon. Well, just at the first moment I enter that area I find a shiny Ponyta. In my opinion, the best in that version is beautiful. I was very small and thought that the game was broken I did not understand well what happened was the first time. Luckily I did not ignore it and it took many balls to capture it. It was my most precious possession. I think I was very lucky because I have not had many more encounters in an accidental way. A pity that I no longer keep it I do not know where I left the game for the last time rip.
My first shiny I remember it as if it were yesterday and already more than 10 years ago. I was playing Green Leaf Pokemon and I found myself in a small area of wild pokemon. Well, just at the first moment I enter that area I find a shiny Ponyta. In my opinion, the best in that version is beautiful. I was very small and thought that the game was broken I did not understand well what happened was the first time. Luckily I did not ignore it and it took many balls to capture it. It was my most precious possession. I think I was very lucky because I have not had many more encounters in an accidental way. A pity that I no longer keep it I do not know where I left the game for the last time rip.
The Shiny Magikarp was probably more valuable then the Shiny Gyarados.
So my Pokémon journey hasn’t been the smartest and some of the shinies I have encountered and caught have been traded away. My first real encounter (not including the lake of rage) was with a Diggersby in the Friend Safari in X, and he’s gone. Later I would catch an Amoongus in Y that I foolishly let go of as well.
Most of the ones I have now come from trades, events and .TV giveaways. But the one that I’m most happy with is a shiny Mimikyu in a Lure Ball that I hatched myself - I’ve named her “Fantine” and look forward to using her in a run someday.
Most of the ones I have now come from trades, events and .TV giveaways. But the one that I’m most happy with is a shiny Mimikyu in a Lure Ball that I hatched myself - I’ve named her “Fantine” and look forward to using her in a run someday.
I love this fucking game.
Obviously shinies are a big deal because of how rare they are, and so to even have one in your possession is really cool. But are there some Pokémon that you just prefer their original colors over their shiny? Perhaps it’s not that the shiny is necessarily bad (there are plenty of threads/videos/internet stuff made about that topic alone) but they were just so successful with the original coloring that you couldn’t imagine it any other way?
I’ll start with one where I don’t say “its shiny sucks” but I still prefer the original and that is Alola Muk. I actually thought it was really clever to invert the regional variants’ regular and shiny colors and shiny Alola Grimer is fantastic for it. But when they added those extra colors to Alola Muk and then didn’t change them with his shiny they clashed with the purple and it really wasn’t as good for me as the green. Don’t get me wrong - I still have and use my shiny Alola Muk regularly; but I’m not as super attached because the green version stands out so much more.
I’ll start with one where I don’t say “its shiny sucks” but I still prefer the original and that is Alola Muk. I actually thought it was really clever to invert the regional variants’ regular and shiny colors and shiny Alola Grimer is fantastic for it. But when they added those extra colors to Alola Muk and then didn’t change them with his shiny they clashed with the purple and it really wasn’t as good for me as the green. Don’t get me wrong - I still have and use my shiny Alola Muk regularly; but I’m not as super attached because the green version stands out so much more.
Merged this with the existing thread for Shiny Pokémon.
Despite it being my favorite Pokemon, I'm not a fan of Volcarona's shiny. I much prefer the contrast between flaming orange wings and a light mint green abdomen than the contrast between sickly yellow wings and a lavender abdomen. I also don't like how the grey parts are lighter, as there's less contrast with the white fluff.
There’s actually a couple legendaries that don’t have bad shinies per se but I prefer their original colors more. Shiny Suicune looks kinda washed out to me and I like the purple mane of regular. I also prefer regular Xernea’s deeper blue and black color scheme compared to shiny’s white and neon blue.
So here's my 18-or-so-year-long lifetime history that doesn't include Gyarados:
Gold: Ursaring, something I never asked for
Ruby: Whismur, something I never asked for
White: Cryogonal, but I was unable to catch because of the damn catch rate (25, lower than Reshiram & Zekrom's 45), and how everything I had on me would melt it in one hit. It ended up fainting to Leech Seed after refusing to be caught
Y: Cottonee, my first and only ever hatch to be shiny. I just wanted something I could use for the upcoming Fairy tournament that was coming up at the time. I didn't have the right nature yet, so I couldn't use an everstone to get the right nature
Omega Ruby: Spinda, something I never asked for
Moon: Another Spinda I never asked for that showed up as I was EV farming HP
Ultra Moon: a Chansey and two Blisseys I never asked for that showed up as I was EXP farming
I could never be arsed to learn how to use an RNG tool, nor constantly soft reset to get intentional shinies
Gold: Ursaring, something I never asked for
Ruby: Whismur, something I never asked for
White: Cryogonal, but I was unable to catch because of the damn catch rate (25, lower than Reshiram & Zekrom's 45), and how everything I had on me would melt it in one hit. It ended up fainting to Leech Seed after refusing to be caught
Y: Cottonee, my first and only ever hatch to be shiny. I just wanted something I could use for the upcoming Fairy tournament that was coming up at the time. I didn't have the right nature yet, so I couldn't use an everstone to get the right nature
Omega Ruby: Spinda, something I never asked for
Moon: Another Spinda I never asked for that showed up as I was EV farming HP
Ultra Moon: a Chansey and two Blisseys I never asked for that showed up as I was EXP farming
I could never be arsed to learn how to use an RNG tool, nor constantly soft reset to get intentional shinies
Deleted User 465389
Banned deucer.
My first shiny was an ultra wormhole altaria, still have it (also have other wormhole shinies)
My first real shiny was a random barboach i fished
also i got a shiny crabrawler, first sos, when ev training my competitive magikarp.
My first real shiny was a random barboach i fished
also i got a shiny crabrawler, first sos, when ev training my competitive magikarp.
Playing through Pokemon Y lately, I was searching Route 5 for an Abra last night but instead encountered a shiny Pancham. I wasn't intending to wait until a shiny appeared to catch a Pancham, (and it definitely wasn't the first wild Pancham encountered) but that's how it worked out.
I've played enough Pokemon to get my fair share of random encounter shinies (and I've used nearly every shiny-hunting method known to man to get way more than my fair share) but I have two shiny stories that are crazy enough to be worth telling. Oddly enough they both come from my cartridge of Pokemon Diamond.
Now, Diamond was only my third Pokemon game after Fire Red and Emerald. When I started, I knew a little bit about shinies from the anime and from seeing a shiny Pidgey on my brother's Leaf Green file. However, I had not yet experienced the glory of a Johto game. So, when 11-year old me first saw the opening scene about the Red Gyarados search in Lake Verity, I didn't realize that it was just a reference. For the first ten minutes of gameplay, I was hopeful and excited for my chance to catch the crimson monster. But after starting the real adventure without any further mention of the lake exploration, all thoughts of Red Gyarados were quickly replaced by the sheer joy of destroying things with my Piplup.
Fast forward, and after a couple weeks of gameplay, I am at Lake Verity (I thought I remembered that this happened during normal gameplay, but I guess it must have happened during post game because that's when you get the Super Rod. I'm not sure why I was at the Lake during Post game, though). All I remember is that my very first encounter in the lake was a genuine Shiny Gyarados.
After recovering from my initial awe, I realized two things:
1. It's a Red Gyarados in Lake Verity, exactly like they mentioned in the beginning of the game, so it's obviously part of normal gameplay that I encounter and catch it.
2. I had forgotten to stock up on Pokeballs.
Now I had the master ball at this point in the game, but my Gen III experience told me that I should save it for a later roaming legendary and not use it on a Pokemon that can't run away. So, I just used my normal tactic for catching static legends and lowered its health as much as possible before chucking my handful of remaining Ultra Balls on it. The Gyarados seemed to mock me by breaking out of all of my balls, the shower of stars each time rubbed more salt in my wounds. Even after using my last Ultra Ball, I didn't want to use the Master Ball because I was certain that the Gyarados would still be there if I reset the game. So I turned off the game, my only regret being that I would have to replay the hour or so of gameplay since I had last saved.
You can probably figure out what happened next. 11 year-old me quickly replayed the game up to that point. I bought all of the Ultra Balls I could carry and excitedly made my way to Lake Verity. I tried for hours trying to find the Red Gyarados again. Did it only appear on certain tiles? Did I have to do something else to unlock it that I had missed this time? Was it not guaranteed, but just more common than usual? Eventually, I gave up trying to find it on that playthrough. But for every playthrough over the next 5 years, I spent a considerable amount of time trying to find it again before I actually used the internet and learned that the game intro was all lies and I had blown a 1/8192 chance.
Next story:
About a year after finishing my first playthrough of Diamond, I had done everything worth doing in Sinnoh and wanted to try the main story again. However, I had transferred all of my Gen III Pokemon to Diamond, and didn't want to erase their data. I didn't have a second DS or anyone to trade with at the time, so I started a new game without deleting my old data. Through prior experimentation I knew that this would keep all of my old Pokemon intact, with the catch that I wouldn't be able to save anything from the new file. I was fine with that because I only wanted a new adventure, and figured I would just leave the DS on and plugged in for a couple of weeks so that the game wouldn't turn off while I finished the main storyline.
I wanted to use 6 Pokemon that I hadn't before, so I chose Chimchar as a starter and caught a Starly on the first route. I had just gotten the bird on par with Chinchar's level when I encountered another Starly, a brown one that emitted blue stars. I managed to catch the shiny this time, and was quite upset that it happened on a file that I couldn't keep. I decided that I would make the most of the opportunity by not catching any other Pokemon and just keeping Starly and Chimchar in the spotlight. My shiny bird and little monkey quickly grew into two super sweepers that took Sinnoh by storm and perfectly matched 12-year old me's preferred strategy of hyper offense. By the time I got to Cynthia, I was so attached to Staraptor and Infernape that I would have traded all of my old data to keep them alive. I tried to save the game, but it wouldn't let me because of the unerased older file. After the championship battle, I said goodbye to my blue bird and finally turned off the game.
Since then I have played Soul Silver and abused Diamond's Pokeradar enough that I have multiple Red Gyarados and Blue Staraptors. Despite not being able to keep my original versions of these Pokemon, they are some of my all-time favorite shiny forms. To this day, l get unreasonably annoyed when I watch the intro to Pokemon Diamond, and unreasonably happy when I see a shiny Staraptor take the field.
Now, Diamond was only my third Pokemon game after Fire Red and Emerald. When I started, I knew a little bit about shinies from the anime and from seeing a shiny Pidgey on my brother's Leaf Green file. However, I had not yet experienced the glory of a Johto game. So, when 11-year old me first saw the opening scene about the Red Gyarados search in Lake Verity, I didn't realize that it was just a reference. For the first ten minutes of gameplay, I was hopeful and excited for my chance to catch the crimson monster. But after starting the real adventure without any further mention of the lake exploration, all thoughts of Red Gyarados were quickly replaced by the sheer joy of destroying things with my Piplup.
Fast forward, and after a couple weeks of gameplay, I am at Lake Verity (I thought I remembered that this happened during normal gameplay, but I guess it must have happened during post game because that's when you get the Super Rod. I'm not sure why I was at the Lake during Post game, though). All I remember is that my very first encounter in the lake was a genuine Shiny Gyarados.
After recovering from my initial awe, I realized two things:
1. It's a Red Gyarados in Lake Verity, exactly like they mentioned in the beginning of the game, so it's obviously part of normal gameplay that I encounter and catch it.
2. I had forgotten to stock up on Pokeballs.
Now I had the master ball at this point in the game, but my Gen III experience told me that I should save it for a later roaming legendary and not use it on a Pokemon that can't run away. So, I just used my normal tactic for catching static legends and lowered its health as much as possible before chucking my handful of remaining Ultra Balls on it. The Gyarados seemed to mock me by breaking out of all of my balls, the shower of stars each time rubbed more salt in my wounds. Even after using my last Ultra Ball, I didn't want to use the Master Ball because I was certain that the Gyarados would still be there if I reset the game. So I turned off the game, my only regret being that I would have to replay the hour or so of gameplay since I had last saved.
You can probably figure out what happened next. 11 year-old me quickly replayed the game up to that point. I bought all of the Ultra Balls I could carry and excitedly made my way to Lake Verity. I tried for hours trying to find the Red Gyarados again. Did it only appear on certain tiles? Did I have to do something else to unlock it that I had missed this time? Was it not guaranteed, but just more common than usual? Eventually, I gave up trying to find it on that playthrough. But for every playthrough over the next 5 years, I spent a considerable amount of time trying to find it again before I actually used the internet and learned that the game intro was all lies and I had blown a 1/8192 chance.
Next story:
About a year after finishing my first playthrough of Diamond, I had done everything worth doing in Sinnoh and wanted to try the main story again. However, I had transferred all of my Gen III Pokemon to Diamond, and didn't want to erase their data. I didn't have a second DS or anyone to trade with at the time, so I started a new game without deleting my old data. Through prior experimentation I knew that this would keep all of my old Pokemon intact, with the catch that I wouldn't be able to save anything from the new file. I was fine with that because I only wanted a new adventure, and figured I would just leave the DS on and plugged in for a couple of weeks so that the game wouldn't turn off while I finished the main storyline.
I wanted to use 6 Pokemon that I hadn't before, so I chose Chimchar as a starter and caught a Starly on the first route. I had just gotten the bird on par with Chinchar's level when I encountered another Starly, a brown one that emitted blue stars. I managed to catch the shiny this time, and was quite upset that it happened on a file that I couldn't keep. I decided that I would make the most of the opportunity by not catching any other Pokemon and just keeping Starly and Chimchar in the spotlight. My shiny bird and little monkey quickly grew into two super sweepers that took Sinnoh by storm and perfectly matched 12-year old me's preferred strategy of hyper offense. By the time I got to Cynthia, I was so attached to Staraptor and Infernape that I would have traded all of my old data to keep them alive. I tried to save the game, but it wouldn't let me because of the unerased older file. After the championship battle, I said goodbye to my blue bird and finally turned off the game.
Since then I have played Soul Silver and abused Diamond's Pokeradar enough that I have multiple Red Gyarados and Blue Staraptors. Despite not being able to keep my original versions of these Pokemon, they are some of my all-time favorite shiny forms. To this day, l get unreasonably annoyed when I watch the intro to Pokemon Diamond, and unreasonably happy when I see a shiny Staraptor take the field.
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I need to buy a lottery ticket. Yesterday I caught a shiny Shuppet in Omega Ruby while EV training in Mt. Pyre, and then today I got lucky again and caught a shiny Noivern in Resolution Cave in Ultra Moon - my first shiny in Gen VII. Unfortunately, both of them have terrible stats, so my new shiny Banette has been repurposed for contest use while my mint-coloured dragon gets to break rocks in Poke Pelago forever.
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I was playing let’s go eevee and I was testing out the thing where you can fly around on aerodactyl and I saw a random shiny dragonite. I tried golden razz berry ultra ball twice but it ran away.
Both times I found shinies in Let's Go Eevee was while I had a catch combo and lure going for the explicit purpose of doing something unrelated to shiny hunting. First time was for level grinding in Cerulean Cave, second time was for catching a Kangaskhan. Regardless, I have a shiny Geodude and Rhydon to show for it.
But the first time I caught a shiny in any game was... a Magikarp. In GO.
Naturally, this sort of thing is not seen as much of an achievement.
But the first time I caught a shiny in any game was... a Magikarp. In GO.
Naturally, this sort of thing is not seen as much of an achievement.
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