and bronzong, bronzong goes from being unviable to being double unviablemost of everything became drastically better after the BM ursaluna ban with the obvious exception of blissey
and bronzong, bronzong goes from being unviable to being double unviablemost of everything became drastically better after the BM ursaluna ban with the obvious exception of blissey
I think next action is to have another quick survey to see what should be focused on next. Maybe wait like 4 or 5 days then drop a survey for 2-3 days and use those results to see if anything comes out seemingly needing a QB or if just a suspect is needed.I believe the next action should be to wait a week or two for the meta to settle down, because GODDAMN was Bloodmoon warping the tier, and it takes time for people to figure out what works best when something that dominant vanishes.
You're aware this doesn't contradict my point, right? Just because many Legendaries are underpowered in practice doesn't mean the intention wasn't to make them purposely overtuned (and, for the earlier ones, they're the victims of a changing design philosophy). If anything, the larger problem is that there are too many of these "super" Pokemon in the game at this point to be easily balanced around - Gen IX will have introduced about 30 after DLC2 comes out.
Yeah, I am more mixed on Ogerpon Wellspring now than I was earlier (where I felt it was a positive addition to the metagame). That power boost from its Mask makes it a bit much to deal with, especially since Tera and Rain massively augment its Water damage. Combined with good sustain with Horn Leech and a very cheap STAB move that has limited counterplay + some noticable hax potential and it is difficult to play around barring the use of defensive Teras and this Pokemon is very difficult to deal with in a metagame that mostly lacks defensive Grass- or Dragon-types. It does not help that this Pokemon forces a lot of annoying speed ties with itself in order to get off damage (which is very much prone to RNG based on crap like, which mon gets healing off of Horn Leech and other factors), which is not really a healthy element to have in the game imo. I think it may be more OP than Urshifu-RS (which tbf I personally did not find to be too OP, but is something to keep in mind).I believe the next priority should be suspecting or quickbanning Ogerpon-Wellspring. It beats pretty much everything slower, including Amoonguss since +2 Ivy Cudgel 2HKOes Amoonguss while Amoonguss can't OHKO back. Ogerpon-Wellspring pretty much forces slower walls to Tera Grass much like Ogerpon-Hearthflame forced many mons to blow a defensive Tera. Ogerpon-Wellspring can also beat all of those passive walls with Encore, making it hella oppressive.
Pokemon that force all slower Pokemon to pop a defensive Tera while not needing to Terastalize themselves are unhealthy as is the case with Baxcalibur and Ogerpon-Hearthflame, and thus, I conclude that Ogerpon-Wellspring should be banned even if it is Manaphy's best check and the main thing holding it back.
Really? Because I played on the ladder some, and I found that Amooguss pretty consistently was able to take out Wellspring with Sludge Bomb...
You may want to check out a thread called SV OU DLC1 Viability List, since it seems to be still early for a ranking to be out yet. "Please explain the metagame to me" is kinda of a generic requestGuys, What is i t he metagame right now, outside ursa blood
Gen IX will have introduced about 30 after DLC2 comes out.
keep in mind that if waterpon is banned, gliscor and manaphy become significantly better. anyone who wants either one banned should be in full support of a waterpon ban. even if you don't personally believe waterpon is problematic (which, in my opinion, it is), having it gone would make gliscor and manaphy even bigger problems than they already are, which would increase the likelihood of them getting bannedYeah, I am more mixed on Ogerpon Wellspring now than I was earlier (where I felt it was a positive addition to the metagame). That power boost from its Mask makes it a bit much to deal with, especially since Tera and Rain massively augment its Water damage. Combined with good sustain with Horn Leech and a very cheap STAB move that has limited counterplay + some noticable hax potential and it is difficult to play around barring the use of defensive Teras and this Pokemon is very difficult to deal with in a metagame that mostly lacks defensive Grass- or Dragon-types. It does not help that this Pokemon forces a lot of annoying speed ties with itself in order to get off damage (which is very much prone to RNG based on crap like, which mon gets healing off of Horn Leech and other factors), which is not really a healthy element to have in the game imo. I think it may be more OP than Urshifu-RS (which tbf I personally did not find to be too OP, but is something to keep in mind).
All that said, it does bring a lot of good elements to the tier too. SD + dual STABs is what you need most of the time, which makes the last to slots pretty flexible. A fast encore is a fantastic tool vs many other threats like Kingambit, Manaphy, and multiple stored power users. Spikes is pretty cool utility too, and Synthesis is an awesome option to give this Pokemon more sustain to continue checking threats like Manaphy. I also really like how Ogerpon uses the Tera mechanic. Its Tera type is limited, which is a big weakness, and worsens its MU vs some key Pokemon that it can already have a hard time with like Rillaboom, but the special defense boost it gains combined with the Water immunity makes it a really awesome check to Pokemon like Greninja, Iron Moth, and Walking Wake, which we had very limited options to deal with before. I still think this Pokemon has a lot of good elements to offer to the tier, which is why I am still on the fence on it.
Yeah, I had a feeling Wellspring would be the sneaky-broken Ogerpon form that people initially brush off because of Hearthflame being so ridiculous, but because we’ve had time to play in a meta without the other form, people are realizing how potent Waterpon actually is.Yeah, I am more mixed on Ogerpon Wellspring now than I was earlier (where I felt it was a positive addition to the metagame). That power boost from its Mask makes it a bit much to deal with, especially since Tera and Rain massively augment its Water damage. Combined with good sustain with Horn Leech and a very cheap STAB move that has limited counterplay + some noticable hax potential and it is difficult to play around barring the use of defensive Teras and this Pokemon is very difficult to deal with in a metagame that mostly lacks defensive Grass- or Dragon-types. It does not help that this Pokemon forces a lot of annoying speed ties with itself in order to get off damage (which is very much prone to RNG based on crap like, which mon gets healing off of Horn Leech and other factors), which is not really a healthy element to have in the game imo. I think it may be more OP than Urshifu-RS (which tbf I personally did not find to be too OP, but is something to keep in mind).
All that said, it does bring a lot of good elements to the tier too. SD + dual STABs is what you need most of the time, which makes the last to slots pretty flexible. A fast encore is a fantastic tool vs many other threats like Kingambit, Manaphy, and multiple stored power users. Spikes is pretty cool utility too, and Synthesis is an awesome option to give this Pokemon more sustain to continue checking threats like Manaphy. I also really like how Ogerpon uses the Tera mechanic. Its Tera type is limited, which is a big weakness, and worsens its MU vs some key Pokemon that it can already have a hard time with like Rillaboom, but the special defense boost it gains combined with the Water immunity makes it a really awesome check to Pokemon like Greninja, Iron Moth, and Walking Wake, which we had very limited options to deal with before. I still think this Pokemon has a lot of good elements to offer to the tier, which is why I am still on the fence on it.
-sticky web
-filler
-filler
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ribombee is run for exactly one thing
Was this directed at me? Come on dude watch this Bronzong performanceAnd then on the flip side, you way overstate what adaptations are reasonable, like you were literally anti Bloodmon ban, casual players are way too quick to say "don't ban just adapt" when the adaptations are garbage like running Bronzong in OU in case of Bloodmoon. Good players play dozens of games a day and are very quick to innovate and learn from others. Inflexibility is definitely not what's driving these bans
The gambit myth states that gambit was made due to the power of bronzong being unhinged, some authors state that the power that bronzong holds was too much for the OU metagame, hence, the heroe gambit was sent to stop this sinister evil bellSa problem with bronzong is big gambit uses it to get to plus 6 and murders ur team
The gambit myth states that gambit was made due to the power of bronzong being unhinged, some authors state that the power that bronzong holds was too much for the OU metagame, hence, the heroe gambit was sent to stop this sinister evil bell
The battle between these immovable object and unstoppable force started, once both beasts had unleashed their full strength, Gambit eradicated Bronzong into oblivion. To this day Bronzong is held hostage in the Tartarus, the lands now known as RU
We should let the meta settle for a few weeks so we can target the most productive test.
I agree with basically everything here, we just got rid of one of the tier's biggest problems, we should at the very least let the meta settle for a bit before we go after another one.Honestly I don’t think we should rush to rest either Waterpon, Manaphy, or what have you.
While BloodMoon was a decisive ban, there was a debate for a while whether it was the right move to suspect first. As time went on, it became more clear that Blood Moon was disgusting. Doing the suspect honestly felt like the right move. The moon was super centralizing and it was disgusting. The issue is, the meta now needs to develop a bit before we can tell if Waterpon or Manaphy are truly broken. Without having to prep hard for BM, we can see whether the meta becomes “stable”.
Ive seen some very ban happy posts, but we need to be realistic. We don’t have much more time for tests before The Indigo Disk. We have time for maybe one more test. We should let the meta settle so we can focus our energy in the most effective direction. Is the best focus looking at Gholdengo? Kingambit? Waterpon? Valiant? Manaphy? It’s way too soon to say what the best course of action is. We should let the meta settle for a few weeks so we can target the most productive test.
we have time for at least 3 more tests, i think. it's very likely that multiple mons will get high enough support on the next survey that we can have multiple suspects in relatively quick successionWe have time for maybe one more test.
This made me more sad, thanksJust thought you should know that Bronzong is actually NU, seems weird that a Zong fan wouldn't know this
we have time for at least 3 more tests, i think. it's very likely that multiple mons will get high enough support on the next survey that we can have multiple suspects in relatively quick succession
The stuff you'd expect ofc (Moonblast, W E B, Stun Spore, U-Turn, maybe QD if you're feeling like trolling), but my favorite tech on ribombee is Psychic. It allows it to beat Glimm (esp since mortal spin doesn't psn with shield dust and sludge wave has no chance to) and threatens relevant poisons like Iron Moth and Sneasler to prevent them from leading, setting up, and winning the gameSince Ribombee survived the shifts, what’s everyone been using on it???
The stuff you'd expect ofc (Moonblast, W E B, Stun Spore, U-Turn, maybe QD if you're feeling like trolling, but my favorite tech on ribombee is Psychic. It allows it to beat Glimm (esp since mortal spin doesn't psn with shield dust and sludge wave has no chance to) and threatens relevant poisons like Iron Moth and Sneasler to prevent them from leading, setting up, and winning the game