^ he probably doesn’t know
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
Yeah yeah Finch's plan might be a movement to change the future of OU but can it handle +2 Adamant Tera Dark Blackglasses Sucker Punch (Fallen: 5)
he does know shockingly, daddybuzzwole has connections
And he said from a scale to 1-10 on how crazy this is he said what is gonna happen is like an 8 when I asked him, so something absolutely absurd is about to happen and I am here for it
Can confirm, I'm one of the people who told daddybuzzwole what Finch is planning. I would tell everyone as well but I like his philosophy so I'd rather see everyone's reaction when it happens
Okay I think I probably know what it is or an idea of what it is shaping up to be as of right now and I cannot wait to watch the sheer chaos and hilarity of the aftermath of what is about to happen
You all are in for a wild ride
You all are in for a wild ride
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If content creators are involved like he said, I imagine it’s something that only high level players will actually participate in/benefit from like a tournament where a bunch of them make videos or one on one interviews in a podcast type situation.
If people are chomping at the bit to speculate on something, why not make calls on the VR placements that are dropping tommorow based on things like who's the No#1 'mon, who leaving the rankings, the order of big five, etc. as the each council members's votes may be similar, but have subtle differences that make exact placements a toss up.
On that note, I'd like to talk about
as even though the standard offensive sets have problems getting past Zama (unless you commit to tera blast), I feel like there's more this 'mon is capable of as evidenced by Finch's Red card Darkrai set in SCL.
On that note, I'd like to talk about
as even though the standard offensive sets have problems getting past Zama (unless you commit to tera blast), I feel like there's more this 'mon is capable of as evidenced by Finch's Red card Darkrai set in SCL.
All I'm gonna say is that If that utter fraud Rillaboom isn't dropping even more subranks then something's wrong. Gets trolled by Moltres and Zapdos even without their abilities instantly screwing it over, and it's an extremely fake Wellspring check due to getting popped by Power Whip thanks to its own terrain. Easily the most fraudulent 'mon tiered in OU right now.
Oh, and Samu-H is lowkey S- material. Brainless Edge on top
IMO clefable is rising up to A-, and mola might rise to A+ now that people are finding out just how much it enables. Rocks-weak mons are less reliant on boots and mons that previously suffered from this reliance such as lokix are starting to find their time in the spotlight.
Take this with a grain of salt though, A is a pretty solid spot for mola (although I fell that undersells it a little) and B+ is much more likely for clef.
That fuckass otter is definitely going up to s- though
Take this with a grain of salt though, A is a pretty solid spot for mola (although I fell that undersells it a little) and B+ is much more likely for clef.
That fuckass otter is definitely going up to s- though
As much as i hate that this may happen, i think primarina may drop down. It has very hard competition as a av user with crown and glowking, not to mention how it can just be popped by ogerpon, bolt, and kyurem. Bulky cm tends to be really weak unless you get multiple boosts, and offensive cm is usually too slow to make a difference. Maybe experimenting with new spreads could work though
you cannot tell me with a straight face that rillaboom is more fraudulent than meowscarada. at least what rilla does is entirely unique if nothing else
252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 88 Def Zamazenta in Grassy Terrain: 334-394 (86 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 88 Def Zamazenta in Grassy Terrain: 334-394 (86 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
These don't look like fraud numbers to me lol
Say it with me
Game is not just damage calcs.
Rilla gets ripped up by the hazards that bulkier teams can stack and thus it ends up worn down way too quickly, on top of being heavily prediction dependent due to the common presence of Zapdos and Moltres on these teams as well as Corv which has regained usage, all stuffing any wood hammer spamming attempts. Rilla also can’t switch into much of anything comfortably, and its fabled priority thuds into way too many things on offense to be truly all that reliable. Unless I missed something recent, Mon hasn’t really had success worth mentioning for a while and it just isn’t really a good Mon right now.
(also not sure why you called Zama when the comment you replied to specifically mentioned Moltres and Zapdos).
Of course the game isn't just about damage calcs. However you can't deny that wood hammer is extremely strong against pokemon that aren't zapdos moltres or corviknight (or any other bulky grass resist of which there aren't that many). It obviously isn't loving hazards but it doesn't take worse than neutral damage from stealth rock and other than that it has plenty of pokemon it can switch in on. It can switch in on defensive gliscor walking wake (though admittedly I am not sure how much damage dragon pulse does) and let's not forget the other 7 VIABLE GROUND TYPES IN THE TIER (except clodsire). So while I won't argue that rillaboom is pretty mid in this tier it is not a fraud.
Also the reason I mentioned Zamazenta is because it is easily the best bulky offensive pokemon in the tier so rillaboom doing that to it is kind of insane.
Just want to remind you that Rillaboom also boasts the only consistently relevant Terrain for OU; Grassy Terrain. That chip heal is very nice for some teams and gives Rillaboom some bonus utility outside of being a breaker. Just the fact that you can pair Rillaboom with stuff like Hawlucha, Hatterene, or whatever else with Grassy Seed for certain HO structures already gives Rillaboom some more utility besides "I hit hard with STAB and have a pivot move and Knock Off", just to sweeten the deal. I wouldn't call Rillaboom goated, but to say it's on fraud watch feels a bit too extreme to me, especially since Zapdos and especially Moltres hate eating a Knock Off because they despise Stealth Rocks.
I feel like GTerrain lowkey helps Zama more than it hurts it, especially since Teras Fire and Steel are some of it's more common Teras, and, obviously, Rilla hates that. And the only time Rillaboom can hit it with Wood Hammer anyways is on the switch, so I wouldn't put too much stock in that calc
I think the considerable thing about Rillaboom is that Grassy Terrain is very much a double-edged Sword, but you really have to play to it to make the mon put in work. A decent couple mons definitely lose some teeth with Earthquake's power cut (Physical Lando, Dragonite into Steels, Iron Treads, Roaring Moon), as well as some defensive mons becoming EXTREMELY passive (or even more Passive) like Gliscor and Ting-Lu, which can open set-up/Revenge chances for things like Bulky Ghold, Booster Crown, or Raging Bolt.
At the same time, the Terrain can benefit opposing exploiters I mentioned if you throw Rillaboom around, as well as both sides standing to gain from things like Ogerpon-W or passive healing on bulky non-healers like Tusk, Zama, and Gambit.
I think Rilla's big issue there is that it's not bad, but the Terrain does A LOT more to consider in the Meta compared to something like Psyspam not having to worry about Psychic Terrain's effects enemy side or Past Gen Misty Terrain on Fini just being something you could account for in the teambuilding stage (i.e. don't depend on Status or load up on Dragon Attackers). While there were debates about a Theorymon Gen 9 Tapu Koko before, I could see Electric Terrain having the same issue, and we even see a bit of it with Sun teams having to deal with potentially boosting an Enemy Tusk or Bolt. Rillaboom genuinely requires you to build the team around it because Grassy Terrain is a factor that will typically outlast the Pokemon, positively or negatively.
At the same time, the Terrain can benefit opposing exploiters I mentioned if you throw Rillaboom around, as well as both sides standing to gain from things like Ogerpon-W or passive healing on bulky non-healers like Tusk, Zama, and Gambit.
I think Rilla's big issue there is that it's not bad, but the Terrain does A LOT more to consider in the Meta compared to something like Psyspam not having to worry about Psychic Terrain's effects enemy side or Past Gen Misty Terrain on Fini just being something you could account for in the teambuilding stage (i.e. don't depend on Status or load up on Dragon Attackers). While there were debates about a Theorymon Gen 9 Tapu Koko before, I could see Electric Terrain having the same issue, and we even see a bit of it with Sun teams having to deal with potentially boosting an Enemy Tusk or Bolt. Rillaboom genuinely requires you to build the team around it because Grassy Terrain is a factor that will typically outlast the Pokemon, positively or negatively.
I think this is the movement that Finch was talking about on his socials. While it may not be flashy or have an immediate effect on the tiers/community, its more of a means to improve the underlying mechanisms of how these tiers are formed which will take time for the fruits to bear. Things such as making sure council members frequently play the game they help build at a high enough level to properly assess its inner workings and to communicate more with the general public (something similar to what blunder called out during the second Kyurem suspect). I think the 'gambling' part refers to the act of directly/indirectly calling out his peers and how they will take the message on top of how these ideals can't be enforced in any concrete way. Best case scenario is that it leads to QoL improvements during the current gen and form the foundation of tiering action for Gen 10 and beyond. At worst, it may spark friction among those in the various councils that could turn into something nasty or Finch's call to action will just end up vindicating the chudjak posting.
Edit: Nvm. I'm wrong
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Exactly - and it's great this way. Keeping Kyurem in the tier has been great keeping this ape at bay and I'm glad Moltres rose up to fill the Volc hole (for the most part - balance is still a lot weaker without Volc.) Overall much healthier than DLC1 where everybody spammed these gterrain teams bc the birds alone weren't enough to keep the style at bay. One of the many reasons the tier is in a much better place now than many previous iterations!
seems unrelated to me, finch implied that the tier would be "put in frenzy" and a lot of people would be playing, this thread is just a discussion with no call to action and has nothing to do with the ladder or larger playerbase. I do think it's a great discussion to start though
I think this is the movement that Finch was talking about on his socials. While it may not be flashy or have an immediate effect on the tiers/community, its more of a means to improve the underlying mechanisms of how these tiers are formed which will take time for the fruits to bear. Things such as making sure council members frequently play the game they help build at a high enough level to properly assess its inner workings and to communicate more with the general public (something similar to what blunder called out during the second Kyurem suspect). I think the 'gambling' part refers to the act of directly/indirectly calling out his peers and how they will take the message on top of how these ideals can't be enforced in any concrete way. Best case scenario is that it leads to QoL improvements during the current gen and form the foundation of tiering action for Gen 10 and beyond. At worst, it may spark friction among those in the various councils that could turn into something nasty or Finch's call to action will just end up vindicating the chudjak posting.
Unless this has nothing to do what Finch was teasing and I'm jumping the gun.
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What if that is the big thing though and he gets pissed that everyone wants more? (xD)
This. I experiment with a lot of VoltTurn comps, and I find it really difficult to leave out Samurott (at least the AV version) from my teams. It makes SpikeStack + VoltTurn really seamless, especially with spinblockers like Dragapult.
idk why people think Rillaboom deserves to drop lmao. Moltres gets completely ruined for the rest of the game if rillaboom goes for the obvious play of knock off and corv is a passive wall that can be exploited in a million different ways (aka U-turn). It has a lot of problems but it inherit strengths make B+ a fair assessment of its place in the meta rn. Also grassy terrain is really useful and it goes almost uncontested
Kyurem is not a Rillaboom switch lmao, also if you think volc helped balance ur literally delusional
252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem in Grassy Terrain: 222-262 (56.7 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
Kyurem is not a Rillaboom switch lmao, also if you think volc helped balance ur literally delusional