Yeah that post was like cordial conversational tone for TheValkyries
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The Everything Eli Manning Thread - Overrated Edition
- Thread starter DM
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As the Supreme Fleet General of the Eagles bandwagon i'd expect as much.
@Mr. E, not really saying that the hype is baseless just that it gets annoying. I could see how some people can think that the Eagles will go 14-2. After crushing the powerhouses Jets, Cowboys, Dolphins and Redskins one after the other, they clearly showed how dominating they can be. Also, my problem isn't as much with the Cowboy hype, i mean they have a quaterback in Romo so that's most of the battle. And a team with a qb that good will always be at least relevant. It's the Eagles hype that i can't stand. They have better odds of winning the SB than the Giants, for example. Which is just insane. I have trouble understanding that. Though don't try explaining why because it'll turn into a Giants-Eagles debate, which will accomplish nothing.
They have better odds because they systematically compare to or are (sometimes markedly) better than the Giants at every single position. I don't bandwagon saying the Eagles are the best team in the NFL, or that they're guaranteed a Super Bowl win (If I do it's sarcasm). I do however, strongly believe that they have a high shot at winning their division this year over the Giants.
Even to stray away from the "Let's compare the two" let's look at the fact that the Giants almost didn't even make the playoffs last year, and had a 50/50 game against the 49ers, and most everyone will tell you their Super Bowl victory was nothing truly convincing either. They only showed strength against the Vanilla Falcons and the Green Bay Aaron Rodgers. After this almost disaster of a Season that turned into almost miraculous run, we have to look at the fact that they did lose some big name players this offseason, and the Eagles stayed almost exactly the same except got better. This isn't hype it's just facts. When you play what ifs you have to take everything into account, and the Eagles definitely look like they have the higher potential going into next year, and despite popular belief, that is what odds are based on: potential of future success, not the amount of previous success.
Offensively the Eagles are only clearly better running. Though by a wide margin, which sucks. Well that and the OL. Defensively the Eagles are better as of now on paper only. And by that i mean that the Eagles' players just look better at this point. Terrel Thomas, our second best Cornerback, didn't play in 2011. Rolle did not play in his natural position. We don't know if we are going to be stuck with Blackburn this year at ILB or if Herzlich/whomever will beat him out of it. Even Tuck and Osi looked bad after 2011, playoffs excluded, thanks to injury. So basically the Giants defense looks bad because of injuries last year keeping them from playing to their full potential. Don't surprised when this defense allows only 14 PPG(13 PPG in the final 6 games.. or when they had an actual ILB who knew what he was doing and were all healthy) and is a top 5 defense.
And just so you know the Giants front four is way better than the Eagles. Sacks-wise the Eagles can't hold a candle to the Giants. Which sounds crazy considering they had more sacks... Two actually. But remember Tuck(an All-Pro the year before) and Osi(9 games 9 sacks) were injured most of the year. Tuck said so himself that he was in terrible shape during most of the season because of the lockout. Osi(a BACK UP) is as good as any Eagle DE starter. And i won't even mention that 2nd year freak of nature that has no right doing backflips with that big ass body. So yes, the Giants line would have easily gotten 55+ this year if not for injuries. It's not a coincidence that they got 5 and 6 in their last two games when fully healthy. Joseph is also over looked because of JPP, but he had a great second year. Canty is the only meh player in the line(hopefully Marvin Austin is a beast so the Giants can get rid of his bloated contract).
I agree that this SB was not really that convincing, and maybe even less so than 2007. Actually never mind, this season actually looked twice as "fluky" as 2007 since they managed to get a WC that year. But whatever as i said above the Eagles only look better going into 2012 because of the injuries to the 2011 deffense.
The champs are the champs until proven otherwise, even if they weren't dominant. I'd rather be on the Giants than any other NFC east team at the moment. At least they have some form of stablity and a handful of proven talented players. Plus you can never count out a defensive line that's capable of taking over games + a QB that can pull off miracles after playing a whole game looking like he's going blind. The Eagles can't even count on their QB, RB, and #1 WR to play all 16 games, the Cowboys are the laughing stock of the league, and the Redskins are in year 15 of rebuilding mode
I thought the laughing stock of the league was the Cleveland Browns. Haven't they not had a winning season since their reformation?
They're also called the Cleveland Browns. There's not a name drearier in the entire history of sports.
They're also called the Cleveland Browns. There's not a name drearier in the entire history of sports.
Since the Cowboys last Super Bowl they've been crowned pre-season favorites almost every year and haven't done jack. No one who watches football has expected the Redskins to do anything and they haven't done jack.
That's the difference.
I don't think anyone has seriously expected the Cowboys to win their division or the Super Bowl every year except maybe Cowboys fans, and Jerry Jones. The Cowboys have a great QB, good receivers, and Demarcus Ware. They're expected to be good, not Super Bowl winners. When they go 8-8 people talk about it because they failed to meet expectations. I don't see people talk about the Cowboys anymore than any other team that failed to live up to expectations.
If you're complaining about the Redskins not being talked about as much as the Cowboys when they haven't even been playing at an 8-8 level for the longest time, don't have as large a market, and don't have any huge name marketable talent in previous years, then I don't really have anything to say,
think it was 2002, and they made the playoffs that year too.
I was explaining to Steeler why jrrrrrr would think the Cowboys were the laughing stock of the league. I am not upset about the coverage the Redskins receive/don't. I disagree that the Cowboys aren't overhyped at the beginning of every year however. This last year they weren't, but pretty much every year before that.
EVEN FANS OF THE SAME DIVISION CAN'T GET THE RECORD STRAIGHT.
Browns: So bad that winning seasons are forgettable anomalies.
So i'm guessing i am the only one excited to see Brandon Weeden pass for 400+ yards in his first game? I think he is going to be the best quaterback of the 2012 draft and i'm sure he will turn the Browns receivers into household names... Whom ever they are. Really, other than to watch the Giants dominate, i'm very excited to watch the Browns games. Eh i've liked them more than the Steelers since poor widdle McCoy got smashed, just had no reason to watch their games.
lol
Just so you know, what you said also applies to his 2010 and 2011 seasons. He might as well have played blindfolded in 2010.. And then goes on to pull a miracle season from jeebus knows where(from everybodies favorite site PFF):
How is this even possible.. even i am doubting the legitimacy of what he did in 2011... Maybe, his entire season was just luck? How does someone make a gigantic leap like that in a couple of months?
lol
Just so you know, what you said also applies to his 2010 and 2011 seasons. He might as well have played blindfolded in 2010.. And then goes on to pull a miracle season from jeebus knows where(from everybodies favorite site PFF):
How is this even possible.. even i am doubting the legitimacy of what he did in 2011... Maybe, his entire season was just luck? How does someone make a gigantic leap like that in a couple of months?
I attribute Eli's success to him becoming acclimatized to dealing with pressure (since he was also the most pressured QB in the league last season iirc), and also having great receivers to make up for slightly errant pressured throws. His overall accuracy while pressured is still exceptional and I don't want to undersell it, but it isn't as godly as you'd believe.
The thing to realize is when you have a 5 or 7 step drop on a long throw and you're telling your OLine to block for an extended period of time when they're arguably one of the worst all time, you tend to get pressured... a lot. That means Eli would've been pressured most often on plays that are designed to go 10, 15, 20 yards and if Eli makes a good enough throw to a semi-open receiver, allowing the receiver to go and get the ball for an easy completion. The key here is the Receiver creating enough space for Eli to make a hurried and not pinpoint accurate throw, and certainly Nicks, Cruz and even Manningham were good enough route runners to consistently give that window of opportunity.
The other thing is his hot route on blitzes would be the slot: Victor Cruz. I think I've praised that man enough though.
The thing to realize is when you have a 5 or 7 step drop on a long throw and you're telling your OLine to block for an extended period of time when they're arguably one of the worst all time, you tend to get pressured... a lot. That means Eli would've been pressured most often on plays that are designed to go 10, 15, 20 yards and if Eli makes a good enough throw to a semi-open receiver, allowing the receiver to go and get the ball for an easy completion. The key here is the Receiver creating enough space for Eli to make a hurried and not pinpoint accurate throw, and certainly Nicks, Cruz and even Manningham were good enough route runners to consistently give that window of opportunity.
The other thing is his hot route on blitzes would be the slot: Victor Cruz. I think I've praised that man enough though.
"Good enough" is putting it kindly when describing Manninghams route running abilities. I thought his interceptions going down was the direct and only effect of the terrible receivers he had last year leaving. But i think it was a combination of his receivers improving, getting used to it(pressure; lol or "aclimatizing" to use your pretty word) and finally incredible focus/drive to make some plays. By that i mean he kind of drove himself into a corner by comparing himself to your boy. He believed it and while his blank face never showed it, was borderline desperate to not make mistakes. You can't really prove that though or prove that it had any effect on his game.
But anyways, to something more important. What does Eli have to do to finally be better than Romo? He puts up amazing stats, however they are not everything and Eli has outplayed him in two consecutive years. Yes 25000+ INT Eli > "i have a bad OL so imma be hurt every year" Romo. "Helping" the Giants go 10-6 is better than sitting at home eating cheetos. Eli has dealt with terrible OLs without getting too banged up that it affects his game. If Romo wants to be better he should start studying Eli.... He put up amazing stats this year, but given all twenty games Eli played and what he did in them this year also goes to him. Plus, considering Eli had no running game, worse protection and a worse defense but way more yards while still staying over 60%(even with more pressures than any other qb), it's safe to say he outplayed Romo. He didnt "out-stat" him, but with all those adversaties... I doubt anyone could have.
But anyways, to something more important. What does Eli have to do to finally be better than Romo? He puts up amazing stats, however they are not everything and Eli has outplayed him in two consecutive years. Yes 25000+ INT Eli > "i have a bad OL so imma be hurt every year" Romo. "Helping" the Giants go 10-6 is better than sitting at home eating cheetos. Eli has dealt with terrible OLs without getting too banged up that it affects his game. If Romo wants to be better he should start studying Eli.... He put up amazing stats this year, but given all twenty games Eli played and what he did in them this year also goes to him. Plus, considering Eli had no running game, worse protection and a worse defense but way more yards while still staying over 60%(even with more pressures than any other qb), it's safe to say he outplayed Romo. He didnt "out-stat" him, but with all those adversaties... I doubt anyone could have.
What does Eli have to do to be better than Romo? Well, he has to be better than Romo. A good place to start would be to not consistently lead the league in turnovers. Of course, with two Super Bowl rings most of the talking heads (and a decent number of regular fans) already consider Eli better than Romo anyway, so there's really nothing to argue about here.
Browns... :(
Browns... :(
I like the title change. It's accurate.
I wish we could talk about other teams, BUT NO ONE BUT SOME HERO TALKS IN THIS THREAD.
I wish we could talk about other teams, BUT NO ONE BUT SOME HERO TALKS IN THIS THREAD.
There is nothing to argue about because Romo has always been better than the lesser Manning by a lot. The lowly Manning has an [TD/INT] 0/2 and 0/3 playoff outings for playoff openers for a reason - he just airs the fucking ball out a lot of the time and hopes for the best. Like I already argued (correctly), so far Romo has been identical to Brees and AHEAD by at least one season but behind by whatever amount of years because Romo started as an NFL quarterback so late. If he does not deliver this season it changes that comparison, but it is at least a little more likely he improves again than is likely he stays stagnant.
Glad to contribute to the topic subject ^________^
Glad to contribute to the topic subject ^________^
Not me brah, whenever the inevitable Eli-Romo debates start in bandwagon city i immidiatley deflect the subject to Reese/Mara vs JJ and/or Cowboys-Giants. I still cannot win the Eli>Romo argument. Let's just hope Romo gets injured again this season so i can rely on Elis health/endurance/consistency. Since at this point i have no idea what to expect from him.
And tehvalkry, i tried talking about the Browns but no one here wants to talk about them or BW.
Way to hold on to the past. That Eli is long gone brah, now he goes 9/1 with 1200+ yards in playoff games. I guess Peyton is still a scrub for throwing 28 picks in his rookie season?
And sadly Romo won't have the chance to improve his postseason stats as he is stuck in the lolCowboys. What a shame as he deserves a SB ring.... Or he turns into Rodgers and takes his whole damn team to a 15-1 record. Unlikely.
Again, are you talking about 3-4 years ago? Because during these last playoffs that strategy worked perfectly brah. Scored a 37 yard TD with 6secs left and knocked out two 49er defenders with that move.
Who is the fool now? Romo or Eli?
Ravens win the Super Bowl this year. And for the next 2 years. At least until Lewis gets hit by The Bus.
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