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Tangrowth to A+: Not sure
I feel Tang to A+ is a weird nom to talk about for me. I think beating zyg, gliscor, and other things is insanely valuable rn and regen is amazing. these qualities are very valuable. however, with z tran being the most common tran as well as zard y (imo) being good again, and mega venu becomin p good again which beats it and gives competition isnt helpin it. Overall, idk how to feel yet.
Magearna to A+: Agree
This thing is such an insane threat rn and i love using it. Shift gear is insanely scary for any team either lacking toxapex (if z fleur), celesteela (if z fleur) and mega venu (for both sets). Its also broken on screens (even if theyve dropped a little in use). Also, OTR is scary as well and has a great offense MU and fucks with a lot of would be counters. Even AV can still be good on BO teams even if not as good as before. Raise this thing.
Garchomp to A-: Agree
This thing is so nice rn imo. Z outrage is a very strong set that can force a kill and get rocks on almost anything while also being a decent tran switch in. Helmet is an amazing tran switch in as well as switchin in to zyg and punishing u turn hard. On top of that, rocks+dtail is nice chip. Raise this too.
Now for my own noms (sorry for this long ass post):
Crawdaunt: C to B-
I feel putting crawdaunt in the same league as mons like base zam and mega camerupt as well as below terrakion and thundurus is very much sad. Crawdaunt is getting better with all the balance coming back as well as being one of the most punishing things to switch into. Priority is also very nice with lele starting to regress with the swing of psychics starting to regress. Also can still work on TR (for whatever thats worth)
Mega Slowbro: C+ to B
I feel megabro is very much being diserviced being put with things like terrak and azu. This thing is one of the best ground type counters around and has great bulk in general. Its also a reliable medicham switch in and even walls standard non ash grens. It can even act as a soft check to certain special attackers like torn or even latios. Ik this is an old topic, but i feel this raise is overdue.
Nidoking: C to C+
This mon is p aight imo, especially with the psychic spam finally starting to decline as well as balance being back to being the best style. Nido can tear through a lot of cookie cutter balances like pex+clef+celesteela. It also beats tang. It can also beat non boosted gear. Its not amazing and some threats still smash it. But this thing can do some work.
Sorry for such a long post but ive had lots of thoughts on some stuff in this meta. Also, i no longer agree with my previous stance on pex.
Dropping a few thoughts here given the discussion that's come up in the past few weeks:
Mega Gyarados from B+ to B: VERY STRONGLY Disagree
Yeah, I just can't see this thing being two subranks below vanilla Gyarados and I can't see vanilla Gyarados not being A- at worst (or at best tbh). I'd argue that it sharing a ranking with Mega Swampert isn't entirely unreasonable considering what archetypes these particular Megas fit on as well as what precisely they function as: powerful sweepers that fit on offensively-oriented teams that can dismantle walls in their own unique ways. While Mega Swampert can brute-force its way past incredibly bulky stuff due to its crazy Rain-boosted Waterfalls and solid coverage otherwise, Mega Gyarados takes more of a Stallbreaker approach by shutting down opponents' status/setup/recovery courtesy of Mold Breaker Taunt and bruteforcing through as much as your choice of coverage options lets you courtesy of your ability to straight-up ignore Unaware walls thanks to Mold Breaker. The niche Mega Gyarados fulfills for most Hyper Offense teams is crucial due to its fantastic matchup against Stall, and Stall only getting better as time passes gives this thing more and more room to just do its thing. Keep this thing in B+. Seriously.
Toxapex from A+ to A: Another HARD Disagree
Yeah, no. With Psychics falling out of favor as of lately this thing finds less of a reason to run a Payapa Berry. This allows Pex's options to be somewhat diversified as it no longer has to run Toxic in tandem with the berry to try crippling a Mega Latios or Mega Latias. In addition, Toxic Spikes is an invaluable support option that pressures switchins extremely heavily. TSpikes+Zygarde is broken for a reason, and Pex is the most consistent setter of TSpikes.
Nuking S or Dropping Landorus-Therian to A+: Disagree
As salty as I am about Zygarde not making the cut for S yet again (I heavily disagree with the reasoning, but I digress), this rank should still exist. Lando-T isn't what it used to be, but it's still a dominant force that I'd argue still makes the cut for S, and Heatran is, well... Heatran. It's the best thing in the tier and I'd argue it's been the best thing in the tier for a few months now. If stuff like Zygarde is what constitutes an A+ rank, the shit in this rank really does go above and beyond the rest. This shouldn't go anywhere, and I'm of the mindset that there should always be an S-rank.
Garchomp from B- to A-: Biggest Fucking Agree of My Life.
Remember when everyone thought this thing was shit? Well, it's not. I'd put my hands in fire to say that Garchomp is without a shadow of a doubt the single best purely-offensive Stealth Rock user in the tier (although its fatter Rocks sets are still great). It does a better job at dissuading VoltTurn shenanigans than most Lando-T variants since it blocks Volt Switch and it chips away at any U-turn users, and the two things that gave it even a semblance of a niche over the likes of Zygarde - Stealth Rock and Swords Dance - are what make this thing so incredibly powerful. Combining these two moves with Garchomp's good typing and fantastic stat distribution - base 102 Speed is still really fucking good - gives it the ability to tear every single Defogger in the tier that isn't Skarmory (which isn't that good right now) to shreds.
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Tapu Fini: 288-340 (83.9 - 99.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Garchomp Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Tornadus-Therian: 370-436 (102.4 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Tornadus-Therian: 466-550 (129 - 152.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Garchomp Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 80 HP / 84 Def Landorus-Therian: 463-546 (136.5 - 161%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (even the fattest ones - which usually don't run Defog - get OHKOed after Stealth Rock)
252 Atk Garchomp Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 12 Def Moltres: 334-394 (87.2 - 102.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery (Variants that drop some HP in favor of more Defense still have a chance to get OHKOed unless they fully compromise their mixed bulk)
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos: 501-591 (130.8 - 154.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Scizor-Mega: 186-219 (54.2 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (The only shaky calc here: the Chomp user has to play around Curse a little should it be CurseZor and not a Defog variant but it only takes one wrong prediction on the Scizor user's end for this thing to ream it completely)
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 286-337 (72.5 - 85.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (I know you're probably out of your mind if you think you're gonna see a situation like this happen ever but this proves that Chomp can muscle past even the most physically-bulky hazard remover in the entire tier if push comes to shove.)
These calcs should speak for themselves. Chomp compresses a huge amount of stuff - including but certainly not limited to a great deal of the Landorus-T sets this thing was supposed to be outclassed by such as Bulky Z-Fly and Sash and Zygarde's awesome Ground/Dragon typing - into a behemoth that adds an ability that singlehandedly deters U-turn users and has enough Speed to perform such a crucial role. Garchomp's incredible wallbreaking abilities also let it muscle past Tangrowth, which is on the rise as of lately. Garchomp should absolutely rise, and it shouldn't be anything less than A-. I know it tends to be a little frowned-upon to suggest that something should move up more than one subrank, let alone a full rank (a full jump from B- to A-), but Garchomp has consistently proven it's indeed that good. It's just been slept on way too hard until recently.
Gengar from B to B- or C+: Disagree
I'd rather see Blacephalon rise to B than see Gengar drop to B- or even C+. Gengar has an incredible movepool that lets it run all the coverage it wants/needs to run (Blacephalon is unfortunately screwed out of even HP Fighting) while still allowing it to run the support options Gengar has historically been notorious for. Gengar was, is, and likely always will be a massive headache for most Stall teams to deal with since it puts so much pressure on Unaware Clefable, and with Stall being so good right now this niche is more valued than previously. Blacephalon can irritate Stall in a bevy of other ways, of course, but it wishes it could just get a better offensive movepool so it could feasibly run stuff like Taunt; this combined with Gengar's awesome Speed tier gives it a place in B over B- or C+, in my opinion.
Tangrowth from A to A+: Strongly Agree
Checking Zygarde is always going to be good, but Tangrowth's great min/maxed stats that let it tank hits from both ends of the spectrum and deal respectable damage from both ends of the spectrum, solid defensive typing that doesn't get Tangrowth's shit packed in by Iron Tail Zygarde, incredible ability that gives it enormous potential as a pivot with staying power, and diverse movepoool to hit almost anything it wants to for respectable damage (Sludge Bomb and Rock Slide have both recently seen some use) let it do so, so much more than just check Zygarde. I consider Tapu Bulu to be the superior choice in several situations - especially since BuluTran is such a tried-and-true core - but Tangrowth's benefits outside of this core are notable enough that it should be ranked alongside Bulu. Hell, it even has a favorable matchup against both members of that core if it opts to run Sludge Bomb. Regenerator cores are still dope as hell in this tier, and Tangrowth is still an integral part of many of these.
Crawdaunt to B-: Agree
I was a big proponent of Crawdaunt not long ago, and this still hasn't changed. If the C-ranks don't receive a massive overhaul Crawdaunt is definitely more at-home in B- since it adores a metagame that is more prone to getting cracked open by its absurdly powerful STABs.
Magearna to A+: Strongly Agree
This always felt a little weird in A to me. Setup variants are extremely good right now and need to be prepared for significantly more now.
Tapu Fini from B- to B: Agree
Yeah, it's just a bit better now. Not much more needs to be said.
Hydreigon from B- to B: Unsure, Leaning Towards Disagree
I'm gonna be really honest right now: I don't really get what the hype about this is/was. It's still a pretty solid check to Heatran but with Ash-Greninja opting to run Ice Beam significantly more often this thing tends to get blown back even before the Greninja gets a kill and transforms. I don't think it's necessarily bad, of course, but I don't feel like it's quite at that level though if it rises I understand why it should.
Mega Latios to A-: On the Fence
There was a point where this thing was the best Mega in OU and then Zam came in like a wrecking ball and almost completely eclipsed it. On one hand, Mega Latios can still check a great deal of the tier and can potentially benefit from the decline in Psychic-types by biting Pex back with a vengeance, should Pex opt to not run Payapa anymore; on the other hand, though, this thing hates how good Steelium-Z Heatran is at the moment since it can't even reliably check Tran like it used to. Part of me feels like a few metagame trends are going against it, but another part of me feels like it's being neglected to the point where it can bounce right back to being a huge threat, so I think we may have to wait a bit before we pass judgment on this guy.
Mega Zam to A: Disagree
Yeah, this is still one of the best Megas in the tier and it's still a right pain in the ass for a lot of teams to deal with. While it needing to run Timid a little more hurts it a bit, I still think it being in A+ is really reasonable.
Mega Mawile to S: Strongly Disagree
I could actually see this getting there in a couple months if it keeps this pace up, but it's not there yet. Probably the 4th-best thing in the tier right now, behind the two things in S and the snake that shits on your Ground immunities, but definitely not S-material yet.
Magnezone from A to A-: Disagree
This thing should never drop from A, in my opinion. With so many powerful Steel-types making an impact in the tier right now Magnezone still finds itself as good as ever at the one thing Magnezone has always been extremely good at: trapping Steels. Though a lot of these aforementioned Steels can live a hit from Magnezone and likely kill it back (that's assuming they're full, of course; any chip damage can prove extremely lethal when you see Magnezone in the team preview), this niche is still really good and it still has impeccable synergy with many top threats in this meta.
Mega Heracross up to B+: Agree
The only two things on Stall teams that actually beat this thing are Unaware Clefable and Moltres, and both have some form of opportunity cost that may discourage their use in some situations; Pyukumuku brings a lot to the table that neither Clefable nor Quagsire can bring, and Moltres isn't without its shortcomings as a Defogger since it can be so prone to entry hazards compared to other Defoggers. Mega Heracross has a movepool that was designed to shit on Stall and if Stall rises in viability (and it's currently rising in viability) so should Mega Heracross.
I also think Mega Sableye should rise to A-, since it's as much a set-in-stone Stall staple as Chansey, but I'm not gonna elaborate because everyone who's in the OU Discord is probably gonna think I want it to rise because of that Mean Look+Calm Mind set I've been messing around with lately. Please don't use that set. That is not an A- set.
Mega Aggron has been gaining usage in the last weeks on tournaments, mainly Snake Draft and Smogon Tour with good success. While it is true that Aggron has some dropbacks like the mega slot competence with Mega Sableye, no recovery and low PPs. His strengths and capabilities allow him to make a niche in the metagame on stall and semi stall teams.
Going with his pros:
Typing, stats and ability: Is one of the few Steel-types usable on this kind of teams, his typing allows him to check stuff like Tapu Lele, CM Clefable, Sp. Def. Tapu Bulu, Landorus-T, Mega Mawile, Mega Diancie, no Fightinium-Z Tornadus-T, Tyranitar and Mega Tyranitar. Also, a great 140-Base Attack and an 70/230/80 bulk in conjunction with Filter allow him to soft-check to Mega Alakazam, and no Firium-Z Heatran if has Sp. Def invesment. And no Fightinium Z Kartana, Garchomp and Zygarde being able to retaliate with Fire Punch or Ice Punch to them.
Decent movepool: Aggron has diverses options apart of his STAB such like Earthquake, Fire Punch, Ice Punch or Avalanche, Stealth Rock, Metal Burst, and Rest. Being the player able to choose the options he wants to take and what he wants to check with Aggron according to his team. Rest is a nice choice because allows you to keep it healthy and improve the PP Stall wars, also Aggron usually is paired with Wish and Heal Bell support.
Aggron-Mega @ Aggronite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch / Ice Punch / Stealth Rock
- Stealth Rock / Rest / Protect
or
EVs: 248 HP / 56 Atk / 196 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
With the first spread wants hit too hard as possible, being capable to pressure Toxapex, OHKO Clefable and Offensive Zygarde with Rocks, while the second spread allow to live 2 Psychic from Choice Specs Tapu Lele, and kill always with Earthquake to Heatran.
Also nominating Mega Aggron to be ranked (ideally C/C+, but I am content with the entry level C- a well).
Mega Sableye is the best and most consistent mega evolution to use on Stall teams, in my opinion. However, there are other mega evolutions that are viable on Stall and one of them that has been seeing some usage in recent weeks is Mega Aggron. Eo Ut Mortus used a pair of Mega Aggron stalls in Smogon Snake Draft's second phase, going 1-1 over the course of those games. In addition to this, Lavos used a team Eo also made in the first phase of Smogon Snake Draft, winning against Tricking. Finally, I also used a different Mega Aggron stall earlier that I recently made and emerged victorious with it as well. Regardless of all of this, the results are not what matters. What matters is that Mega Aggron has a clear niche and is viable in the SM OU metagame. I'm sure a lot of people may be curious as to why this is the case or what it does, so I will break that down and go through why it is a viable option.
Aggron-Mega @ Aggronite
Ability: Filter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef OR 248 HP / 56 Atk / 196 SpD / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature OR Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch / Fire Punch / Protect / Toxic
The former is the spread Eo used on his, which maximizes damage output. The latter is the spread I used that focuses more on longevity. Both are viable and I will provide some calculations below to show how effective it can be.
Anyway, the purpose of Mega Aggron is to be a convenient defensive presence that is not passive and can reliably set up Stealth Rocks. While it is pretty much mandatory to support Mega Aggron with a Wish user on stall, teams that have Mega Aggron need a specific core of Defog users in order to keep off opposing hazards, and you do not have the level of convenience that you otherwise would with Mega Sableye on stall against a number of hazard setters, there are clear pros of using Mega Aggron that make it worthwhile from time to time. The biggest reason for using Mega Aggron probably would be the fact that it can be used to check opposing Mega Mawile, unless it has Focus Punch. Mega Mawile is pretty much only checked by a few things on stall, most notably Hippowdon, Avalugg, and RH Tangrowth. All of these (and Mega Aggron) can still lose to variants with Focus Punch, but Mega Aggron is the least threatened of the bunch by anything else that Mega Mawile has to throw at it. For example, Ice Punch or Iron Head variants of Mega Mawile can be annoying to the others, but Mega Aggron proves to be the closest to an actual counter to Mega Mawile as it does not mind those moves whatsoever -- it's pretty much just Focus Punch Mega Mawile, which is going to dick stall no matter what if it has right right other moves for the team it is facing.
While Mega Mawile is one of the biggest threats to stall and Mega Aggron covers it, this is not the only reason to use Mega Aggron. It also is a great answer to the following Pokemon: Clefable (even Flamethrower bounces off and Heavy Slam always kills if you're the max attack variant whereas it always 2HKOs otherwise), Tornadus-Therian (if it has Heat Wave or Focus Blast, then it is a different story, but otherwise it is kepy largely in check defensively and threatened offensively, which can come in handy seeing as it is often the only thing keeping Stealth Rock off on a lot of balance teams, giving stall a much needed means of making progress), Tapu Bulu (Bulk Up variants can actually 1v1 if the BU on a switch-in and avoid crits, but aside from this it's kept in check easily), Mega Latios (nothing really does significant damage to Mega Aggron while you 2HKO it), Kartana (especially if Fire Punch, but you can pivot into choice variants regardless and Mega Aggron is almost always paired with Zapdos anyway), Mega Tyranitar (generally annoying for stall to face as it can set up Stealth Rocks and threaten things like Chansey, but now it can at least be matched and crippled reliably), Mega Diancie (not the best hard counter out there for this, but it's similar to the Mega Tyranitar situation, but you can straight up OHKO it. Mega Diancie's attacks, more or less, bounce off of the bulkier spread, too.), Kyurem-Black (actually a pretty big one as it usually "picks" against stall if it is Z. You don't manage LO EPower well, but then Chansey should counter anyway, so the combination of Mega Aggron and the context of stall teams makes it a sudden non-issue), Weavile (actually unirionically annoying to the stall team I used against Ramboss in snake prior because I lacked an Ice resist, but yea in itself Mega Aggron fully counters this with ease although it's useful mainly for Pursuit in the normal stall MU, which you are not avoiding regardless unless you outplay it to begin with), and Serperior (ok, so this is not exactly a hard counter, but +2 HP Fire is doing around 40% maximum, so seeing as you usually have Mega Aggron + Chansey + Zapdos, it's actually possible to out-stall Serperior with these types of stalls without having to use Moltres, which is pretty rare in the context of normal stalls -- this is especially doable if you have Protect like I did, btw). Honorable mention to stuff like Mega Pinsir, Bisharp, and Mega Scizor as well I suppose.
Moving on, in the context of stall teams, being able to provide a Mega Mawile check while also setting up Stealth Rock, being able to pivot into a number of things I mentioned above without being overly passive, and being an actual Steel type is a great combination of traits that makes Mega Aggron appealing. While it does require a reliable Defog core, Wish (usually from Chansey, but I also have an Alomomola variant), and then normal other stall "checklist" type of things/Pokemon, there is clearly room for viable Mega Aggron stalls in the current metagame, so it should be ranked.
Defensive:
252+ Atk Choice Band Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 144-171 (41.9 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 248 HP / 196+ SpD Filter Aggron-Mega: 216-256 (62.9 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after trapping damage
252 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Filter Aggron-Mega: 292-346 (85.1 - 100.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after trapping damage
252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 196+ SpD Filter Aggron-Mega: 216-255 (62.9 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Filter Aggron-Mega: 292-345 (85.1 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Aggron-Mega: 66-78 (19.2 - 22.7%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Fire Fang vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 96-114 (27.9 - 33.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Focus Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 220-261 (64.1 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Tapu Bulu Superpower vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 78-93 (22.7 - 27.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
+2 0 Atk Tapu Bulu All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 244-288 (71.1 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252 SpA Tornadus-Therian Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 196+ SpD Aggron-Mega: 70-83 (20.4 - 24.1%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252 SpA Tornadus-Therian Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Aggron-Mega: 95-112 (27.6 - 32.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 Atk Tornadus-Therian Superpower vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 61-73 (17.7 - 21.2%) -- possible 5HKO
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 196+ SpD Aggron-Mega: 43-51 (12.5 - 14.8%) -- possible 7HKO
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Aggron-Mega: 59-69 (17.2 - 20.1%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Kartana Sacred Sword vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 91-108 (26.5 - 31.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Kartana Sacred Sword vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 135-160 (39.3 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Latios-Mega Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 196+ SpD Aggron-Mega: 109-129 (31.7 - 37.6%) -- 89% chance to 3HKO
4 Atk Latios-Mega Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 66-78 (19.2 - 22.7%) -- possible 5HKO
252 SpA Latios-Mega Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Aggron-Mega: 148-174 (43.1 - 50.7%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 253-298 (73.7 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 248 HP / 196+ SpD Aggron-Mega in Psychic Terrain: 145-171 (42.2 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Tapu Lele All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 196+ SpD Filter Aggron-Mega: 271-321 (79 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 132-156 (38.4 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Subzero Slammer (200 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Aggron-Mega: 95-112 (27.6 - 32.6%) -- 11.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
200 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 196+ SpD Aggron-Mega: 61-72 (17.7 - 20.9%) -- possible 5HKO
200 SpA Serperior Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 196+ SpD Filter Aggron-Mega: 58-69 (16.9 - 20.1%) -- possible 5HKO
252 SpA Diancie-Mega Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 196+ SpD Filter Aggron-Mega: 102-120 (29.7 - 34.9%) -- 12.2% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Diancie-Mega Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 196+ SpD Filter Aggron-Mega: 151-178 (44 - 51.8%) -- 13.3% chance to 2HKO
Offensive:
56 Atk Aggron-Mega Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 384-452 (118.8 - 139.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
56 Atk Aggron-Mega Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 384-452 (99.7 - 117.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
56 Atk Aggron-Mega Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam-Mega: 255-301 (101.5 - 119.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
56 Atk Aggron-Mega Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega: 150-177 (59.7 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
56 Atk Aggron-Mega Earthquake vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega: 166-196 (66.1 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Aggron-Mega Earthquake vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega: 210-248 (83.6 - 98.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Aggron-Mega Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega: 187-222 (74.5 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
56 Atk Aggron-Mega Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 320-380 (93.2 - 110.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ Atk Aggron-Mega Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 404-476 (117.7 - 138.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
56 Atk Aggron-Mega Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Toxapex: 140-166 (46.2 - 54.7%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Aggron-Mega Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Toxapex: 176-208 (58 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
56 Atk Aggron-Mega Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-Therian: 217-256 (72.5 - 85.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Aggron-Mega Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-Therian: 273-322 (91.3 - 107.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
56 Atk Aggron-Mega Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 318-374 (80.7 - 94.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Aggron-Mega Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 398-470 (101 - 119.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Aggron-Mega Fire Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 300-356 (115.3 - 136.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Aggron-Mega Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 324-384 (90.5 - 107.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
56 Atk Aggron-Mega Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios-Mega: 180-213 (59.8 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Aggron-Mega Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 273-322 (90.6 - 106.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Aggron-Mega Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios-Mega: 228-268 (75.7 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
56 Atk Aggron-Mega Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Medicham-Mega: 205-243 (78.5 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Aggron-Mega Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Medicham-Mega: 261-307 (100 - 117.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
56 Atk Aggron-Mega Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 238-282 (33.9 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Aggron-Mega Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 301-355 (42.8 - 50.5%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO
I've been messing with Z focus blast and frying steel pokemon like ferro/heatran and is a great hole puncher with 190 power off of a 145 special stat and it's easy to scout protect with a nasty plot and if leading vs lando can often pick up an easy kill if not yache berry/max bulk with a roll and often the scarf set is easy to predict and You can opt for volt turn if You don't think they're running lead lando with rock coverage
Its 101 tier tier let's You throw a few points back to bulk, more if You're scarf timid and being able to eat flying, fighting, bug, ground, electric creates a special niche for being able to switch into koko/hawlucha and beat the shit out of one mon really quick
Vs rain I've found it can be really opressive if You run scarf modest, if they lead peliper they often are forced to knee jerk to ferro or swamp(takes 80-90 from Z-focus-blast and is super dead from grass knot)
And really I think the scarf set can be a really good win-con in terms of brutal coverage, I've been running dark pulse to do 79-94% to mega zam which it out speeds and is lured in if at mid health to abuse trace and everyone knows how much bullshit dark pulse spam can be even if not stab
Now Thundurus-T can really sink Your team based on set and some defensive mons, namely ground types not afraid of hp ice. Zam can steal volt absorb, chansey, bulu, and best users can make all Your hits pointless if You didn't volt turn to a counter with rocks off Your side. Scarf gren can lure You to stay in and often is paired with lando to double 50-50's on what they'll lead.
Tanglagrowth can be meh and it's often hard to directly switch back without a sack, slow turn or read
But often where it can be unwhleming it's very easy to pair it with something like trapping heatran to force out the tanglegrowt/chansey if not get up rocks/a dead pivot
Edit:
Really low from messing around with teams a lot lately, but I had a solid enough last turn situation vs a top 3 team with thunder
Mega Aggron has been gaining usage in the last weeks on tournaments, mainly Snake Draft and Smogon Tour with good success. While it is true that Aggron has some dropbacks like the mega slot competence with Mega Sableye, no recovery and low PPs. His strengths and capabilities allow him to make a niche in the metagame on stall and semi stall teams.
Going with his pros:
Typing, stats and ability: Is one of the few Steel-types usable on this kind of teams, his typing allows him to check stuff like Tapu Lele, CM Clefable, Sp. Def. Tapu Bulu, Landorus-T, Mega Mawile, Mega Diancie, no Fightinium-Z Tornadus-T, Tyranitar and Mega Tyranitar. Also, a great 140-Base Attack and an 70/230/80 bulk in conjunction with Filter allow him to soft-check to Mega Alakazam, and no Firium-Z Heatran if has Sp. Def invesment. And no Fightinium Z Kartana, Garchomp and Zygarde being able to retaliate with Fire Punch or Ice Punch to them.
Decent movepool: Aggron has diverses options apart of his STAB such like Earthquake, Fire Punch, Ice Punch or Avalanche, Stealth Rock, Metal Burst, and Rest. Being the player able to choose the options he wants to take and what he wants to check with Aggron according to his team. Rest is a nice choice because allows you to keep it healthy and improve the PP Stall wars, also Aggron usually is paired with Wish and Heal Bell support.
Aggron-Mega @ Aggronite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch / Ice Punch / Stealth Rock
- Stealth Rock / Rest / Protect
or
EVs: 248 HP / 56 Atk / 196 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
With the first spread wants hit too hard as possible, being capable to pressure Toxapex, OHKO Clefable and Offensive Zygarde with Rocks, while the second spread allow to live 2 Psychic from Choice Specs Tapu Lele, and kill always with Earthquake to Heatran.
tbh i always keep my mouth shut on situations like not today especially since u have th audacity to shut of the tree convo lmaol. im gonna be honest, mega aggron is pure ass omfg. like even in the replay literally any evolved steel type did its role and like that shit did not matter. and lets be real no matter what i say here it wont remotely matter bc ur the mod and what and tbh you shouldnt even be allowed to nom anything but thats another story. Yes its def is dumb high but like no one is hitting it physically the ones that do are hitting it SE. its not an avalugg situation where it has recover and the ability to have lefities or an item. this shit is easily worn down and more importantly easily taken out.
tbh i always keep my mouth shut on situations like not today especially since u have th audacity to shut of the tree convo lmaol. im gonna be honest, mega aggron is pure ass omfg.
More like how the hell do you have the audacity to compare Mega Aggron to Shiftry? One is clearly a viable stall option on modern stall and the other literally hasn’t been regarded as relevant in OU by anyone at anytime at any point in SM’s duration.
like even in the replay literally any evolved steel type did its role and like that shit did not matter. and lets be real no matter what i say here it wont remotely matter bc ur the mod and what and tbh you shouldnt even be allowed to nom anything but thats another story.
I have no clue which replay you mean as I linked four, but one replay has Mega Aggron taking under half from CB TA from Zyg and OHKOing back with Ice Punch. What other steel does anything remotely similar to that??? Not to mention that nothing comes close to comparable against Mega Mawile and that is soooo necessary to anyone who understands the basic necessities of a stall team. No other steel has the same combination of damage output, bulk, and utility. It’s clearly a uniquely viable pokemon and instead of trying to refute that, you present us with a vague generalization that isn’t even true and then a claim that I shouldn’t even be able to nominate things despite actively playing the tier and running the thread???
Yes its def is dumb high but like no one is hitting it physically the ones that do are hitting it SE.
You clearly haven’t played it. A lot of things it comes in on hit it physically and then plenty of super effective physical attacks bounce off and then it nukes in return (going back to the Zyg example above). This post is so obviously based on pure theory at this point; you haven’t posted any remotely specific/practical example and all of your justification consists of sweeping generalizations that border on untrue. If this wasn’t actually opposing a non of my own and it was a random user’s post, I’d literally infract it at this point.
its not an avalugg situation where it has recover and the ability to have lefities or an item. this shit is easily worn down and more importantly easily taken out.
Wish support on stall is not only ridiculously easy to provide, but also equally as easy to get going to something as tanky as Mega Aggron, as you can see in the replays, especially my own game. Sure standalone it’s meh, but that can be said for half of the things ranked below like B+ so...
That’s enough enlightment for today, please refrain from responding to the Mega Aggron nom (or any nom in general) if you don’t understand its niche or can’t be bothered to read finch’s post (which i wouldn’t blame you for), thanks
Please remove the Stealth Rocks mentions it hurts my eyes
Alright so time for some of my views on recent noms.
Garchomp B- -> A-I disagree with this, not because I don't think garchomp should rise I do, but the main issue is that rising from B- to A- is a massive jump and I'm not sure I agree with that, I will admit that Garchomp deserves more praise than what it's gotten in the past, but I think we all need more time to see if garchomp is good enough or if it was just a bandwagon. That Being said I'm ok with a rise to B or B+ even but a triple rise should not happen yet.
Volcarona A- -> B+Yeah no, A- is the minimun this mon should ever go to tbh, while yes some of the steels are getting a bit worse they are still here and doing their job, Pex is coming back yes, and we even have the new AV ttar to worry about in regards to Volc's viability, however it is too dangerous and still sets up on many mons like Ferrothorn, Clef, Celesteela and Tangrowth to name a few who are all very important mons in this meta, Volc's situation isn't so dire that it should drop, and putting it alongside sweepers like Mega gyarados would really be selling it's viability short, if anything I think it's more comparable to the mons in A.
Tangrowth A -> A+I don't really have much to say on this topic, it's just that this mon is more or less on the same turf as bulu in regards to viability and I think they should be ranked in the same tier.
Magearna A->A+Same as tangrowth, not much more to add I just wanted to state my agreement.
Time for a few noms of my own.
Volcanion B- -> C+Volcanion rised a couple shifts ago due to it's ability to counter pex well however in this meta that really isn't required, while not terrible (and not worthy of anything less than A+ by any means) pex isn't needed to be countered that much, alongside how good HO is rn, pokemon like Hydreigon, the MLatis and zygarde really blow this mon to pieces, I think it's also worth mentioning that I really don't believe that this mon is comparable to stall staples like Pyukumuku and Quagsire or mons like Hydreigon and that C+ is a much better home for it.
Blacephalon
B- -> B
once again a fire type from B-, however the difference is that I think this mon should rise, not really for what it does that's new, it's just how discredited it has been, Blace has of course been doing a lot in the HO scene which should be mentioned, like volc although it does not appreciate the ttar rise I don't think it's enough to keep it down, Blace like volc also enjoys the pokemon in the meta like clef and ferro who it can set up on, while clearly not as good as volc, putting mons like Suicune and Kingdra ahead of it in B and putting blace alongside mons like Volcanion is really discrediting it's viability.
Mega Latios A -> A-I believe that Mega latios should drop due to the fact that the Psychic meta is fading away but steels are still very useful in the meta, in the A tier it is alongside mons such as Tapu Koko, Kartana, Celesteela, Mega Medicham, Magearna, Tapu lele, Tangrowth and others, the issue I have with this is that these mons are much much more useful in the current meta and comparing Mega latios to them is quite eh I'd say, it also really does not enjoy the mega slot battle between it and Mega mawile, It's just not as good as it once was and I think that A- alongside the other Mlati is a more accurate place for Mega Latios.
btw not sure if I am allowed to comment on the Maggron nom but I do agree with it being at least ranked for C- for it's merits on stall, while it does take a important spot from Msable it does have a niche and should be considered so I think that C-/C is a decent entry place for it, nothing much more to say.
View attachment 138134Volcanion B- -> C+Volcanion rised a couple shifts ago due to it's ability to counter pex well however in this meta that really isn't required, while not terrible (and not worthy of anything less than A+ by any means) pex isn't needed to be countered that much, alongside how good HO is rn, pokemon like Hydreigon, the MLatis and zygarde really blow this mon to pieces, I think it's also worth mentioning that I really don't believe that this mon is comparable to stall staples like Pyukumuku and Quagsire or mons like Hydreigon and that C+ is a much better home for it.
View attachment 138129Mega Latios A -> A-I believe that Mega latios should drop due to the fact that the Psychic meta is fading away but steels are still very useful in the meta, in the A tier it is alongside mons such as Tapu Koko, Kartana, Celesteela, Mega Medicham, Magearna, Tapu lele, Tangrowth and others, the issue I have with this is that these mons are much much more useful in the current meta and comparing Mega latios to them is quite eh I'd say, it also really does not enjoy the mega slot battle between it and Mega mawile, It's just not as good as it once was and I think that A- alongside the other Mlati is a more accurate place for Mega Latios.
I dont agree with volcanion droppin.With balance comin back and things like latias takin a backseat on said balances, and pex comin back is all good for him. I dont think its amazin or anythin but bringin it down to the level of terrak is, imo, unfair considerin how the meta is developin.
I agree with a mega latios drop. While def not a bad mon, i feel it isnt what it was a few months ago and only seems to be gettin less good as time goes on.
Yeah strong disagree on the Volcanion nom. I feel like it's a very underexplored and often overlooked when it's actually a really solid mon. I've had some success with AV volcanion, being a fabulous check to meta trends like Blacephalon and serp while also pressuring ash gren into using dpulse over hydro, taking pressure off checks like mage. It's also great V Volcarona and mzor. People don't really know how well you can adapt Volcanion for your needs, seeming to think all its good for is coming into pex with that sub set but it can actually do a whole lot more. It's definitely, as vss said, better than the garb like terrak in the C+ rank.
Agree with a chomp rise (who wouldn't lol), but I think it would be better in B+ than A-. Such a huge rise seems a little overdone cause it's just blown up and everyone's jumping on the type train. It's a good mon no doubt and should be B+ minimum, but I'm not sold on higher just yet.
Huge agree for the fini rise, it's fabulous at the minute being able to check tran + ash gren in one while also being a great bundle of utility, being able to defog, stallbreak and check a bunch of highly potent threats depending on your needs.
Agree with a magearna rise, not much to add to what's already been said just want to voice support for this amazing mon.
Disagree with a blace rise, I feel like this mon in general is either overhyped or over hated, changing which it is by the minute, and is fine sat there in B- as it's not as great as ppl make out, just a decent mon with a decent niche that is HUGELY prone to fads.
Disagree with a megados drop, this mon is great and idek why anyone would want to drop it, especially when HO has been doing pretty well recently.
Agree with the thundy t nom, was going to make one pre olt but I never had the time. The fight z set is a solid balance breaker and it also has some other great sets like scarf and double dance, giving it some nice unpredictability and to have it in C rank with a load of garbage seems a little off to me.
Thoughts on recent nominations, longish post ahead:
Mawile A+ -> S: Hard Disagree
I know this has been talked to death but Mega Mawile's my favorite OU viable mon so I gotta talk about it. Mawile is really, really good right now, requiring very little team support and performing exceedingly well. That said, she only really does like, 2 things, making her really easy to play around. Also, she's forced out easily by the 2 best mons in the tier, which threaten to OHKO her with their faster stabs. She's good as hell but not close to S rank material.
Magearna A -> A+: Big Agree
Magearna is incredibly versatile, able to run a ton of different sets that can all harshly punish the opponent for mispredicting. There's not much to say here tbh that hasn't already been said, but Magearna should absolutely by A+ if not S rank
Mega Charizard Y B- -> B: Agree
Zard Y's really been impressing me lately, Focus Blast+Solar Beam+Flamethrower makes it a nightmare to switch into if the opponent doesn't have Pex. Taking 50% from SR obviously sucks so it requires heavy defog support but once Zard comes in it's throwing around massive damage. Also your opponent being unsure if its Zard X or Y before it mega evolves is a very real advantage, if they expect X and switch into something like Defensive Lando you're getting a lot of good damage in.
Toxapex A+ -> A: Disagree
Toxapex is still really good, it runs over any team that's not prepared for it and with the decrease in psychic types to threaten it it only gets better. Keep it in A+
Magnezone A -> A-: Agree
Magnezone's job is to trap and easily beat the top steels in the metagame, but it struggles to do that. Heatran is completely unthreatened by Magnezone, either shrugging off an attack from the Scarf set or outspeeding and KOing it with Earth Power or a fire stab. Mega Mawile also doesn't care about scarf Magnezone, a spread of 148 HP/108 SpDef lets AoA Mawile 1v1 Magnezone with the combo of Brick Break/Fire Fang into Sucker Punch. And SD Mawile has a decent roll to KO Magnezone with Sucker Punch at +2. Magearna also ignore Magnezone, Zone can't break through the AV set even with a Z Crystal. Jolly Kartana outspeeds Scarf Magnezone and either KOs it at +2 with Sacred Sword or just clicks All-Out Pummeling. This leaves Magnezone as a pokemon whose niche is to check Ferrothorn and Celesteela and sometimes Mega Mawile, which definitely has its uses, but means Magnezone, by all rights, should not be A.
252 SpA Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 141-166 (36.5 - 43%) -- 97.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 148 HP / 108 SpD Mawile-Mega: 138-163 (49.6 - 58.6%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Brick Break vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 274-324 (97.1 - 114.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 128-151 (45.3 - 53.5%) -- 36.3% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 255-301 (90.4 - 106.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Magnezone Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 58-70 (15.9 - 19.2%) -- possible 6HKO
252 SpA Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 66-78 (18.1 - 21.4%) -- possible 5HKO
252 SpA Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Magearna: 130-154 (43.1 - 51.1%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Magearna Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 286-338 (101.4 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Magnezone Gigavolt Havoc (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 138-163 (38 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Kartana Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Magnezone: 446-526 (158.7 - 187.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Kartana All-Out Pummeling (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Magnezone: 432-510 (153.7 - 181.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Volcarona A- -> B+: Agree
Volcarona is extremely underwhelming right now, obviously its very powerful once you set up and you can sweep a team that's unprepared for it but 4x SR weakness and the fact that Heatran and Toxapex are two very common mons that can switch in and wall it (and it can't prepare for both without sacrificing one of its stabs) means it requires a lot of team support to make work. Plus, Specs Greninja with Water Shuriken and Sucker Punch Mawile both revenge kill it fairly easily. The rise in AV T-tar doesn't help either. I love Volc but with the amount of team support necessary to make it work, it shouldn't be sitting in A-.
And now a couple of my own nominations:
Zapdos B+ -> A-
I was honestly surprised when I saw Zapdos down in B+. Zapdos is pretty fantastic right now, Electric/Flying with decent bulky gives Zapdos a solid role as a defensive defogger with a unique set of resistances. Importantly, it stops Koko/Lucha which is everywhere right now (esp considering most Hawlucha don't run Stone Edge). Static + Discharge also makes Zapdos able to punish fast physical attackers like Pinsir, Medicham and Lando with a good chance to get free paralysis. Zapdos is really easy to slot on a team since its a defensive pivot, Defogger, electric type, and ground immunity all rolled into one, and it even has a good base 100 speed and 125 special attack, allowing it to get respectable chip damage in when needed.
Gastrodon B -> B+
Gastrodon's honestly still pretty good, obviously not as good since grass types have risen in usage but Water/Ground typing is great right now, and Gastrodon's bulk and access to Recover lets it switch in easily on and wall plenty of common threats like Heatran, Landorus, Ash-Gren, Toxapex, Scizor, Koko, Gliscor, Tyranitar, and Zygarde if Gastrodon's running Ice Beam. And while they easily force Gastrodon out, Tapu Bulu and Tangrowth hate catching a Toxic on the switch-in, and Kartana doesn't love switching into Scald. Gastrodon is a pokemon that is easy to fit on a team bc of its longevity and ability to force switches, and pretty consistently puts in a lot of work. It should be ranked above like, Alomomola, Mamoswine and Suicune.
So this isn't a one liner, here's my thoughts on current noms.
Volcarona A- -> B+: Massively Disagree
This mon should never drop below the A ranks. It has all the tools to deal with its "counters" barring chansey, with hp ground for tran, and psychic/z-psychic for pex. The bulky QD set with dual-stab and roost is also super good, as it can switch in to mons it checks without having to worry about remaining healthy for a sweep.
Magearna A -> A+: Very much Agree
Mag is so good and so fucking versatile. AV and Shift Gear have a reasonable spot on pretty well any team, and even other sets like shuca or CM 3-attacks put in so much work. Every time a tour comes around, Mag shows how ridiculous it is and flies right back up the VR, this mon should absolutely not be A right now.
Garchomp B- -> A-: Agree?
Garchomp's getting better, the Z offensive rocks set is clean right now, and beats/lures some of the common defoggers. Definitely needs a rise, idk about A- quite yet though.
Pretty impartial or just don't give a shit about most of the other noms right now, rank Mega Agg ig, fini is a pretty good mon with all the glare and zygarde around, thats about it.
Magnezone A -> A-: Agree
Magnezone's job is to trap and easily beat the top steels in the metagame, but it struggles to do that. Heatran is completely unthreatened by Magnezone, either shrugging off an attack from the Scarf set or outspeeding and KOing it with Earth Power or a fire stab. Mega Mawile also doesn't care about scarf Magnezone, a spread of 148 HP/108 SpDef lets AoA Mawile 1v1 Magnezone with the combo of Brick Break/Fire Fang into Sucker Punch. And SD Mawile has a decent roll to KO Magnezone with Sucker Punch at +2. Magearna also ignore Magnezone, Zone can't break through the AV set even with a Z Crystal. Jolly Kartana outspeeds Scarf Magnezone and either KOs it at +2 with Sacred Sword or just clicks All-Out Pummeling. This leaves Magnezone as a pokemon whose niche is to check Ferrothorn and Celesteela and sometimes Mega Mawile, which definitely has its uses, but means Magnezone, by all rights, should not be A.
252 SpA Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 141-166 (36.5 - 43%) -- 97.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 148 HP / 108 SpD Mawile-Mega: 138-163 (49.6 - 58.6%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Brick Break vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 274-324 (97.1 - 114.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 128-151 (45.3 - 53.5%) -- 36.3% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 255-301 (90.4 - 106.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Magnezone Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 58-70 (15.9 - 19.2%) -- possible 6HKO
252 SpA Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 66-78 (18.1 - 21.4%) -- possible 5HKO
252 SpA Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Magearna: 130-154 (43.1 - 51.1%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Magearna Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 286-338 (101.4 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Magnezone Gigavolt Havoc (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 138-163 (38 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Kartana Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Magnezone: 446-526 (158.7 - 187.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Kartana All-Out Pummeling (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Magnezone: 432-510 (153.7 - 181.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
2) I don't get why you're of the impression that Zone's only niche is trapping steels. Yes, that is the biggest reason, but it can also put in serious work against other mons that aren't steels. It has a great match-up against multiple prominent threats like Bulu, M-Sciz (who you conveniently left out), Torn, non-scarf Lele, Koko (Zone walls it and 2hkos back), M-Pins, Pex, and other slightly more niche ones like M-Diance and multiple stall mons (Lugg, Tres provided you don't switch into a fire blast). It's also still workable against certain would-be checks because of the sub elec z set, which is able to severely damage or kill things like SD MMaw, non-AV Mage (and AV Mage is far from its best set right now), Pyuk, and basically everything that doesn't resist you if they switch on the sub. Sure, Zone isn't the most versatile mon and it certainly isn't the best, but the steel trapping niche is as great is it always is because of Ferro, M-Sciz, Steela, and to a lesser extent Kart (and a much lesser extent Skarm). It's still powerful enough to do a bunch of damage to other prominent mons and the sub z-elec set is able to blow past things that would normally check it. It's not all that difficult to fit onto teams and puts in some work in almost every game since the mons it has a favorable match-up against are very common. It shouldn't drop from A unless the things it does well against start to drop a lot or if all of the steels it checks suddenly drop a lot, and neither have happened yet.
I'd also like to voice support for Fini, who's been seeing success recently as a stallbreaker and a defogger, and I'd like to say that volc absolutely should not drop at the current moment since defog support is still fairly easy to provide and once it gets in and sets up once it's extremely difficult to stop.
Serp doesn't belong with Mega Gyara and HoopaU. Leaf Storm/Glare/Sub/Seed is really tough to get around, in the process of dealing with it you give it boosts, take leech chip and spread para. Taunt Synthesis is also difficult to deal with and Scarf is still around. This thing provides great team support, very good speed and the opponent always needs to be wary of let it get a sub.
Whosever idea was to drop this, I wholeheartedly disagree. Volcarona has been getting a lot of traction in tournaments with its newfound Bulky Quiver Dance set, letting it be a great switch in to Mega Mawile provided it has Defog support to back it up. And the standard offensive Volcarona is still going too strong to warrant any type of drop. It can still be a threat to several teams and I do think it’s still a quite a tremendous sweeper. If anything it’s worth a rise not a drop. Here are a couple examples of Volcarona’s success: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-393702 https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-394265 https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-395687
Of course, you can’t expect Volcarona to always get a sweep off and auto win, but even then, it’s a valuable pick that often puts some work and should be respected as such.
This Pokémon is way too strong for B. Mega Heracross is a terrifying wallbreaker that most teams lack a proper switch into. Even would-be-counters like Unaware Clefable can get screwed by terrain boosted Bullet Seed, and needless to say, Fighting + Rock coverage is glorious. I still think B underrepresents this thing’s power and viability as a wallbreaker. B+ or perhaps even A+ would be more suited. Here’s a fun OLT replay of it putting some work: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-395363
Not much has changed for Mega Pinsir, but I think calling it A- is a little overshooting it. Of course it’s still a great wallbreaker, but with Scarf Landorus everywhere you really can’t quite call Mega Pinsir a reliable wallbreaker. Also its niche is a little too restricted to offense I feel, Mega Pinsir Balance or even Bulky Offense aren’t quite common and I’d argue most teams would prefer a more consistent wallbreaker. Sorry Mega Pinsir.
from A- to A - I am not 100% sold on this one and I feel like the chances of it moving up are slim, but I do believe that it is something that we should all at least think about. Chansey is an incredibly unique case seeing as it is not exactly your everyday slap-on-to-balance type Pokemon unless you're one of those hipster Chansey offense spammers, but my argument isn't addressing those types; my argument is solely limited to the scope of Chansey's usage on stall.
Chansey is on every single optimal stall you will encounter in the current metagame, without exception. For other "cheese" archetypes that have a distinct pool of Pokemon they normally utilize, you see their best Pokemon together in the same rank and then the common support pieces that are just below staple level in the tiers just below. Rain is a great example; you see Pelipper and Mega Swampert in B+ while common Rain abusers that are not on every Rain team in lower B ranks (Kingdra in B and Manaphy in B-, most notably). Stall, however, is not something that I would necessarily say should mirror this example. Currently, it, more or less, does, however. Chansey finds itself in A- rank alone, but then Mega Sableye and Zapdos are in B+ while Hippowdon and Mew are in B and both common Unaware Pokemon that don't have other viability (Pyukumuku and Quagsire) are in B-. Why should stall be different? The main selling point to me is the fact that it is flat-out better. In my honest opinion, a well-built stall team will always lose to some things, but a strong majority of the time it will end up winning the game or at least have a good shot to depending upon play. Stall is more consistent than a lot of the offensive "cheese" archetypes we see like Webs or Rain, especially in the current metagame. It has less room to outplay things due to a lack of revenge killers and direct win conditions to turn games around and it oftentimes takes a less directly systematic gameplay approach, but stall in itself is quite effective and used less than it should be right now. Chansey is the most used Pokemon on stall and it outright invalidates the offensive progress that a lot of offensive threats can make (Mega Alakazam, most Greninja, Ash Greninja, Mega Latios, Magearna, Tapu Koko, LO or post-Z Kyurem-Black, Volcarona, Mega Diancie, Hydreigon, etc.) while dictating how a lot of teams even approach breaking stall. Overall, Chansey's impact on modern teambuilding is understated, Chansey's impact on the game itself when it is used on stall is clearly huge, and Chansey walls a significant portion of the metagame while providing to the team it is a part of much like higher-ranked defensive threats (Toxapex or Clefable, for example). I am not saying it is as good as either of those two as it lacks an amazing ability like Regenerator or Magic Guard, it is a less reliable hazard setter, and it is a bit more passive (if it has Toxic, it still isn't very passive though). With all of this said, I feel like Chansey is such a stand-out in what it does and the niche it has that it really should warrant strong consideration for moving up to A rank.
from A- to B+ - Mega Pinsir is actually decent right now as a lot of teams are put in an immediate pickle against it and teams that rely upon Tornadus-T + MZam or Greninja as speed control oftentimes lose to it after some chip/hazards and a Swords Dance. My main issue with it is not the impact it has on the game or how good it can be against standard structures, but rather how hard it is to use and the lack of frequency we see it when compared to other A- Pokemon. Mega Pinsir is so hard to build with given the emphasis on hazards in the current metagame, its lack of synergy with current common Defoggers (mainly Tornadus-T, but also the fact that Scarf LandoT isn't reliable enough of a remover to be the lone support for it). Mega Pinsir also does not necessarily break modern stall structures and it only really provides a pivot into the defensive pivot Grass types like Tangrowth and Tapu Bulu, so it does not provide a lot either all for the sake of a 4x SR weak balance breaker that can be a situational win condition. I just feel like Mega Pinsir is a good Pokemon overall, but it is stuck in the context of a metagame that needs convenience in terms of defensive/offensive presence due to how restricted building of archetypes you would find Mega Pinsir on typically is. Basically, the tier is not kind to Mega Pinsir and it can be good, but it is very hard to fit onto a well-rounded team and given the drop in usage, it should drop a tier from where you see rising threats/borderline mainstays like Reuniclus, Chansey, Kyurem-Black, etc. to a tier with more risky, high upside options such as Serperior, Weavile, and Hoopa-Unbound.
from B to B+ - Mega Diancie was ridiculously hyped when it came out, but then it pretty much fell and never hit the level it was in ORAS despite the favorable mechanics. I think people are finally starting to use it properly, however, with more Protect variants and Stealth Rock variants. It is great at being a threat to balance, setting up SR against stall, and just being a deterrent to opposing hazard play. All things considered, Mega Diancie is slowly picking up in usage and I feel like it is really standing out in B right now as it is capable of being so threatening and useful in the utility game. While it is far from a staple in the metagame, I do think that it has enough niche to rise up to a rank with more reliable niche picks like Mega Lopunny and Hoopa-Unbound as opposed to being all the way down in B rank with things like Mega Heracross and Mega Venusaur who still are far from catching on/seeing consistent usage.
from B- to B - Not a huge nomination here, but Hydreigon has seem usage on the big stage more and more as of late. It has a few sets people have flirted with and it has utility as a special attacker and even as a Defogger. I think that the combination of it having as much coverage as you could possibly ask for and it being a Dark type works wonders, tbh. I still find it not the most consistent option and I think that it deserves to be used sporadically, but it fits more into the context of B than B- I feel.
and
from B- to C+ - There really are very few, if any, reasons to use either of these atm. I've seen 1-2 random stray offensive Latios and Scarf HWish Latias out there, but they don't really do much and are purely offensive utility Pokemon that are only used if teams are already flawed and need too much compression within one slot to begin with. Would not use either ever and hope they both drop.
from C+ to B- - I feel like this thing has a lot more utility than people give it credit for. It walls Mega Medicham, Mega Lopunny, Zygarde, Mega Mawile upon evolving, Landorus-T, Hawlucha, Kyurem-Black upon evolving, Excadrill, etc. It is a great catch-all physical pivot for balance/bulky-offense and with Regenerator prior to evolving coupled with decent coverage and utility moves or even being able to pose as a win condition with Calm Mind makes Mega Slowbro pretty cool atm. I feel like it deserves more usage and should rise.
from C+ to C - Shitty Pokemon, would never use it and it has steadily dropped for a year now, so let's keep that up.
Fine really enjoys the increased usage of 'mons like Hydregion, and still does a good job of being a stallbreaker and wall. Not to mention that misty terrain support is really nice for sweepers, other than that there isn't much to say here that hasn't been said before.
Tangrowth A=>A+ Agree
Yea, this guy is ridiculously good rn. Walls things like Kart, Zygarde, Gren, Bulu, Koko, Magnezone, and Ferro, provides Knock Off utility against scarfers and Chansey, and beats the aforementioned Kart (with hp fire), zygarde (with hp ice), Gren, and most steels with eq/ hp fire, Including Heatran on switch-in. Plus, Regenerator is such a godly ability.
Hydregion B-=> B Dissagre
Hydregion has had a lot of success recently, however, I feel that it has some major issues that prevent it from rising. First, fairies are insanely common, and it can't do much to them, while it finds itself getting slaughtered by them. Secondly, the rise in the usage of the pink blob, Fini, and Ice Beam Gren, like Dreadfullysaid don't help it. Finally, I feel that base 97 just isn't that good, as it gets outsped (if it's not scarf, which I've found that most aren't) by things that it could beat if it was faster, like the dragons (excluding Zygarde and Dragonite, but who actually uses d-nite?).
Hydregion has had a lot of success recently, however, I feel that it has some major issues that prevent it from rising. First, fairies are insanely common, and it can't do much to them, while it finds itself getting slaughtered by them. Secondly, the rise in the usage of the pink blob, Fini, and Ice Beam Gren, like Dreadfullysaid don't help it. Finally, I feel that base 97 just isn't that good, as it gets outsped (if it's not scarf, which I've found that most aren't) by things that it could beat if it was faster, like the dragons (excluding Zygarde and Dragonite, but who actually uses d-nite?).
ok there are a couple things in the post I have to refute. First is Fairies do not destroy hydriegion. There is not one fairy in the Viability ranks that can switch in(besides Fini and Azu). Clef gets 2hkoed by flash while magerna and clef get 2hkoed by fire blast. With Hydriegon, its not as easy as putting a fairy on your team and then you will be fine against it. Also, just look at the viability rankings. It can 1v1 almost half the list from S-B. Just to name them they are Heatran, Lando (roosts off u-turn damage), ferro, Zam (scarf), Torn-T (ohkos after rocks), Off. Mag, Zygarde, ash gren, pex (specs can deal with it), celesteela, magnezone, scizor, tang, M gyara, gliscor, gyara, kyurem-b, reuni, excadrill, M sableye, Serp, M Pinsir (Scarf) and Zap, Mew, Herracross, Gar (scarf), Blaceph(not a B rank, but still popular). Beam Gren getting more popular hurts Hydriegon, but it can still deal with the aforementioned threats.
Edit:
Also wanted to use this post to talk about another nom
and
Strong Agree these things have only gotten worse as time has gone by. Nothing much else to add besides I think that Latias should drop to C since its significantly weaker than Latios and only niche is healing wish. They both have good natural bulk, and the extra bulk isnt always needed as much as the extra power.
M-Medicham is a fine mon, but it has really suffered from changes as of late. It has two troubling trends to contend with - the viability of stall and increase viability of mons that it doesn't have much recourse against.
First, Medi excels at picking apart balance cores but it really can't hang against dominant stall trends, namely M-Sableye, who hard counters it. This is often a really big problem for M-Medicham teams, because it frequently takes on the role of wallbreaker. But if it can't take down M-Sableye (even with Rocks up), it's going to need a second line of offense to effectively beat stall. While this doesn't make M-Medicham a garbage mon, it does limit its viability. Because it also hates status, hazards, and weather, its longevity against extremely bulky teams in the tier is limited.
Apart from stall, there are a few other troubling trends for Medicham. Blacephalon's use on HO teams means there's one more fast cleaner that Medi has no recourse against, unlike with Koko/Ash-Gren/Zam. SG Magearna is popular as well and because it takes so little from Fake Out, M-Medi is dead weight after it gets set up. Zam's ascent up the VR is troubling too because of its competition for a mega slot (same as with M-Maw), made worse by the fact that it very effectively revenge kills Medicham. M-Maw is troubling too because its unboosted Sucker Punch does ~70% to Medi. And then there's things like Garchomp, whose Helmet sets punish Fake Out, and whose newly popular Dragon-Z sets outspeed and eliminate an only slightly wounded Medicham. Serperior, Curse M-Scizor, and Slowbro are additional reasons not to use M-Medicham that have popped on the scene recently. While the first two don't 1v1 it, all they need is 1 turn of setup and a decent amount of HP to beat Medi.
So in summary, Medicham's got to deal with M-Sableye on stall, compete with Zam and M-Maw harder than ever for the megastone, and has trouble with recent meta trends like Blacephalon, Serperior, Slowbro, and Garchomp. Time to drop, I think.
M-Medicham is a fine mon, but it has really suffered from changes as of late. It has two troubling trends to contend with - the viability of stall and increase viability of mons that it doesn't have much recourse against.
First, Medi excels at picking apart balance cores but it really can't hang against dominant stall trends, namely M-Sableye, who hard counters it. This is often a really big problem for M-Medicham teams, because it frequently takes on the role of wallbreaker. But if it can't take down M-Sableye (even with Rocks up), it's going to need a second line of offense to effectively beat stall. While this doesn't make M-Medicham a garbage mon, it does limit its viability. Because it also hates status, hazards, and weather, its longevity against extremely bulky teams in the tier is limited.
Apart from stall, there are a few other troubling trends for Medicham. Blacephalon's use on HO teams means there's one more fast cleaner that Medi has no recourse against, unlike with Koko/Ash-Gren/Zam. SG Magearna is popular as well and because it takes so little from Fake Out, M-Medi is dead weight after it gets set up. Zam's ascent up the VR is troubling too because of its competition for a mega slot (same as with M-Maw), made worse by the fact that it very effectively revenge kills Medicham. M-Maw is troubling too because its unboosted Sucker Punch does ~70% to Medi. And then there's things like Garchomp, whose Helmet sets punish Fake Out, and whose newly popular Dragon-Z sets outspeed and eliminate an only slightly wounded Medicham. Serperior, Curse M-Scizor, and Slowbro are additional reasons not to use M-Medicham that have popped on the scene recently. While the first two don't 1v1 it, all they need is 1 turn of setup and a decent amount of HP to beat Medi.
So in summary, Medicham's got to deal with M-Sableye on stall, compete with Zam and M-Maw harder than ever for the megastone, and has trouble with recent meta trends like Blacephalon, Serperior, Slowbro, and Garchomp. Time to drop, I think.
The things you listed as Medi being unable to do, are things it doesn't try to do anyway. Of the "meta trends" you listed, Slowbro is the only one that can switch in. The rest are just faster attackers, but, they're not really targets for Medi. Hitting things like defensive Lando, Celesteela, Toxapex and Ferrothorn was always the point, and it's not like Dragonium Z Garchomp, Slowbro and Serperior are anything new either, there's a slight increase in usage but these sets have been around for as long as Medicham has.
However some mons I think you should mention are Acid Armor Reuniclus, which is super good but as underused as ever and Clefable, which is starting to drop off a little but still an excellent Medicham check on balance.
Overall, I don't think Medicham has actually gotten any worse at doing what it does, there's a few extra 100 speed+ mons that kill it yes, but this is nothing new, any quick attacking mon has always troubled Medi. I think medi should stay A.
As for stall I can't really say anything because I just forfeit any time I see a stall team, fuck that, but I understand usage has increased but I'm not sure by the margin so I'm just leaving that point alone, as far as I can tell Medi has always sucked vs stall anyway.
I agree with the idea of a medi drop. Mawile has established itself as the best wallbreaking mega in the tier. it also has a great typing for the meta rn and unlike medicham, can actually beat stall and has a really good priority move. i think medi's speed is nice but mawile brings a lot of competition. and reuni isnt gonna become bad anytime soon. and mega slowbro rn, imo, is the best its been in a while.
I know, I know, you think this is a joke nomination, but it’s actually serious. Electrode can be a helpful addition to Dual Screens Offense over Tapu Koko thanks to the higher Speed stats, letting it set up screens on foes that outspeed Tapu Koko such as Ash-Greninja, Mega Lopunny, and Mega Alakazam half of the time. Static and Aftermath also have some use over Tapu Koko’s Electric Surge unless it is supporting a teammate that makes use of it. Electrode’s bulk isn’t that much worse than that of Tapu Koko too, with 10 base points less in HP, 15 in Defense, and 5 in Special Defense, but the added Speed can make up for this somewhat. I’m not saying Electrode is the better screens setter, but a C- ranking sounds reasonable enough, specially when Electrode got more OLT usage than half of the rank, that wasn’t used a single time. I think this Pokémon is definitely on the level of the likes of Azelf, Scolipede, and Shuckle, all of which are C-. To back this post up, here are two replays from OLT in which Electrode put some work, both games were lost, but you can tell they were played at high level and both were pretty close:
I'm not entirely sure about this nomination but it is something I've had in mind. Feel free to take this with a grain of salt if it looks ridiculous. Anyways, time to revitalize the dead VR.
Serperior B+ to A-
Having been disregarded for a long time in USM OU, Serperior has without a doubt cemented itself as the single most annoying and difficult-to-switch-into Pokemon in recent months. Currently residing in B+, it is undoubtedly the most consistent mon in the rank, except for Mega-Sab (which is due for a rise anyway) and perhaps Zapdos (very capable of rising too). It has left quite a stir on the current meta; notable examples are the fact that, paired with Zygarde (20% of the time), it has created a whole new playstyle (Glare-spam) and also that it's a big part of the reason why Moltres is viable on stall, since it is a phenomenal stall breaker.
However, for me Serperior's strength lies in it's ability to surprise the foe and lure in a ton of the meta, only to annoy the hell out of them. Surprisingly though, if you take a quick look at it's movepool, you'll notice that it's one of the shallowest in existence. It only has 2/3 notably viable offensive moves and for an offensive-minded mon, this is a slap in the face. However, this lack of an offensive movepool turns out to be Serperior's blessing in disguise, as it frees up crucial moveslots for support moves (i.e. Leech Seed and Glare) which almost always allows it to defeat it's checks and turns its would-be-counters (e.g. Heatran, Celesteela, Vest-Magearna) into 'mere checks'. To me, this is a very unique and overlooked niche. Something that, paired with its newfound SubSeed+Glare set, warrants a placement in the A- rank. (btw, it sees more usage than every single mon in A- except Chansey, which I too believe should rise, and I know usage doesn't necessarily translate into viability but it does show how consistent Serperior has been in recent months)
With its shallow movepool, it somehow manages to pull off 3 different viable sets with its own checks and counters: SubSeed + HP [Fire], SubSeed+Glare and Scarf. The first set is the classic one which has a phenomenal matchup against Balance and Stall. The Scarf set is probably its most uncommon set, but it's used 31% of the time, so it's definitely something to consider. This set trades a fair bit of the matchup against Stall to handle Offense even better. In addition to being an emergency dead end for setup-sweepers, it provides much-valuable (insurance) defog support in the Offensive teams it resides in. The second set is, thanks to blessed innovation, probably the most frustrating things you'll ever face and a large part of the reason why I'm writing this holy fucking essay for you. This set has the ability to wiggle it's way out of every single mon in the tier except for pressure-Zapdos and Moltres and in addition to non-Moltres-Stall, it has a great matchup against Offense, if you make use of the switches it forces. It also provides a lot of support to it's team, something an offensive mon is usually incapable of and GOD forbid you let this switch into a defog.
Pair all of these up and you have a mon that is one of the most self-sufficient, useful and rewarding in the current metagame.
(copy/pasting my post from the victim of the week thread, hence the lele focus)
Meloetta @ Psychium Z Ability: Serene Grace EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Timid Nature - Calm Mind - Psyshock - Focus Blast - Thunderbolt
Meloetta is a super hipster lele answer, but very effective nonetheless. First and foremost, she is only 3hkod by any of lele's moves and, thanks to psychic terrain, can easily 2hko back (or calm mind then 1hko), even without prior damage.
Lele vs Meloetta Calcs:
252 SpA Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Meloetta: 126-148 (36.9 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Meloetta in Psychic Terrain: 122-144 (35.7 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 252 SpA Tapu Lele All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Meloetta: 112-132 (32.8 - 38.7%) -- 99.4% chance to 3HKO
Meloetta vs Lele Calcs:
252 SpA Meloetta Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele in Psychic Terrain: 123-146 (43.7 - 51.9%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Meloetta Shattered Psyche (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Lele in Psychic Terrain: 171-202 (60.8 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Meloetta Shattered Psyche (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Lele in Psychic Terrain: 256-302 (91.1 - 107.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Some other notable matchups:
- Outpseeds & 1hkos max-hp heatran at +1, and she has a chance to 1hko offensive heatran without a boost after rocks. Meanwhile, she is only 3hkod by magma storm (including bind damage). After a calm mind, this turns into a 4hko.
- Her normal typing means she is immune to shadow ball, letting her comfortably check alakazam, blacephalon, and gengar. Even without a calm mind, she avoids the 2hko from all of them (excluding specs blac). Boosting her spdef puts her in an even more favorable position, obviously.
- She can 1hko bulky zygarde variants after a calm mind. With a bit of prior damage, she doesn't need a boost. Meanwhile, she avoids the 2hko from their unboosted thousand arrows, meaning that she wins 1v1.
- After a calm mind, she has a chance to avoid the 2hko from unboosted volcarona bug buzz and the 1hko from savage spin-out. She easily 1hkos back with psyshock (regardless of quiver dance boosts since targets defense). If volc isn't carrying savage spin out or you have already lured it, you win the 1v1. Definitely don't use her as your primary volc check, but she can do alright in a pinch.
- Avoids the 2hko from serperior leaf storm even at +0 spdef. unboosted z-psyshock kills in return.
- 1HKOs spdef tapu bulu with unboosted z-psyshock
More stuff:
She has seen a decent amount of use in the top 10 ladder recently, especially during the megazam-heavy meta. Here's one of the teams, for reference (shoutout to whoever made it idr): https://pokepast.es/2186c833f8bd7487
Also worth mentioning Z-Psyshock. Psyshock itself targets defence, but shattered psyche targets spdef. That lets you reap the benefits of psyshock, but still kill 252/252 bold clefable (for example) with shattered psych after a boost (or no boost with ~25% chip damage @ unaware). Psychic is certainly an option, though. One of the other successful meloetta teams opted to run it over psyshock, iirc.
As if all that wasn't great enough, serene grace let's you bs your way through some thought situations. 20% paralysis from tbolt, more consistent fblast/psychic spdef drop, etc are nice perks that make meloetta a lot more threatening when they activate.
Meloetta was vital in forcing out mons that otherwise gave me a ton of trouble (mag, lele) without sacrificing momentum and giving toxa/chansey/zapdos an opportunity to heal or wish/defog/etc. I had a Lele & bulu "counter" in celesteela (which was in kill range after specs Lele spdef drop l o l), but bringing him in would give chansey and zapdos and toxa and mag a free turn unless I made a risky double that would probably end up with Lele koing something. As a result, lop and marowak and meloetta stayed as constant wincons, cuz chansey couldn't heal (which would cause marowak to kill himself with recoil), toxa couldn't heal or knock off (which would put him out of lop and marowak KO range), mag couldn't set up (if it was cm or shift gear) and zapdos couldn't safely roost or defog (which would put him out of KO range of marowak and lop and keep the rest of his team safe from being 1hkod by meloetta without rock damage). Celesteela and other defensive checks would have fucked that up and I would easily get outstalled. I had subcoil zygarde too fwiw.
Also she swept at the end.
He could have switched to bulu sooner at the end if it could tank psyshock so well (maybe bulu was ivd wrong? lol it looks like max def band instead of max attack), but i also could have not used my z move on mag (which has a chance to 1hko btw) if I knew it was scarf and not cm or something. It wouldn't have changed the game at that point anyway.
