I agree with this, good HO teams apply a lot of offensive pressure basically reducing turns for you to removes rocks. Mega Pinsir does not even have recovery so it can basically only switch in once or twice. Plus the two are extremely predictable. It's not just about the strength as TFL said but how the metagame is. HO teams are running rampant on the ladder and they usually have at least two checks for these two mons. They are also pretty terrible against stall, unless there is a Goth on the team which limits the team's fighting power against HO.I've brought this up many times before, Pinsir and Talonflame need to drop to A rank. Charizard Y's drop was the nail in the coffin. Like Charizard Y, both require a bit much support and are not as strong as the A+ mons in terms of what they bring to the table. They're pretty good, but not great, and the list should reflect that.
and
-> A rank
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Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)
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The difference is that Zard needed 2 kinds of support (3 if you wanted to make sure it would always have weather), while all they need is hazard removal. Pinsir and Talonflame can Sweep/Revenge most of the meta after 1 boost (or a Choice Band for Talonflame) thanks to their powerful priority. Zard Y has trouble against a lot of things and doesn't have any priority, is stuck in the most inflated Speed Tier in the game without being able to boost it, and its Sun can even backfire by giving opponents boosted attacks.I've brought this up many times before, Pinsir and Talonflame need to drop to A rank. Charizard Y's drop was the nail in the coffin. Like Charizard Y, both require a bit much support and are not as strong as the A+ mons in terms of what they bring to the table. They're pretty good, but not great, and the list should reflect that.
and-> A rank
Oh, and Pinsir can actually rip apart Stall teams once Skarmory is dead (Quagsire is 2HKO'd by Return if SR is up and has to pray for a Scald burn if it gets in unscathed), which Zard Y can't do shit to.
EDIT: Meant to say Zard Y can't touch Stall. It fucks up Skarmory, obviously.
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You seem to be severely underestimating Greninja. Hes easier to bring in than you think, especially when U-Turn and Volt Switch are almost anywhere. And honestly, STAB on everything, as well as a good special attack stat and great speed tier, allows him to revenge kill basically every non scarfed Poke in the tier. Sure, Deo-S can do that as well, but Deo-S doesnt get STAB on everything, nor is he able to use U-Turn, which is another big boon for Greninja. Thanks to the switches he forces, he provides momentum for the team, which is something Deo-S simply cant do. Greninja is a hit and run attacker, and definitely one of the best ones out there. Proof of this is the fact that most teams end up being weak to him if the lack Chansey, and the best they can do is soft check him.
>Getting lucky on Double Switches
I dont think you understand what double switches are meant to do.
Umm... Are you talking about Stall teams in general, or those specific Mons? Because Charizard-Y can OHKO both of those with Fire Blast and Solarbeam
Stall in general. Skarmory is the only thing that'll stop a Pinsir sweep while Zard Y has to deal with Mega Venu, Zard X, Chansey, and Heatran.
Yeah once Skarmory is dead, same goes for Charizard Y, once Chansey is gone. That's a terrible argument. Mega Pinsir is checked by Thundurus-I, Scarf Excadrill or Sand Rush Excadrill, Rotom W, Bulky Ttars, Rain Teams, Talonflame, Zapdos, Rhyperior. It's not just skarmory.
Read my previous post I made just before you for Zard Y.
What sweeper isn't checked by Thundurus-I, again?
Scarf Excadrill is obvious (no Sand support and no Air Balloon message means it's Scarfed) and a free switch in for a ton of things. Air Balloon Aegislash is a massive middle finger to you, for example.
Sand Rush Excadrill only checks with Sand up.
Rotom-W takes 57% minimum from a boosted Return and is not hard to wear down.
Max HP T-Tar is always OHKO'd by a boosted Earthquake. ScarfTar can check you.
Rain Sweepers do not resist your STAB and need Rain up to check.
Talonflame is a fair point.
+2 Return does up to 60% to Zapdos, meaning if has to be healthy to check.
+2 Earthquake does up to 80% to Rhyperior. See Zapdos.
I would say Taloneflame stays at A+ simply because priority bravebird is so damn good, and the fact that it can run many viable sets, but I would agree with M-Pinsir. It's powerful when it gets an SD, but it NEEDS an SD to sweep, and it's just so hard to get one up.I've brought this up many times before, Pinsir and Talonflame need to drop to A rank. Charizard Y's drop was the nail in the coffin. Like Charizard Y, both require a bit much support and are not as strong as the A+ mons in terms of what they bring to the table. They're pretty good, but not great, and the list should reflect that.
and-> A rank
Right, and as I said, on a U-Turn/Volt-Switch team, Greninja can work. But not every team runs that, or even has room to run that. Maybe it's because i typically run stall that I never seen to have trouble with it, but I've never really had trouble with Greninja. Normally I just switch to my special wall (either Chansey or my Avest Kyube) and I'm good to go. It really does struggle against stall, which is becoming an increasing more played play style.
As an aside, it really can't revenge kill as much as you think it can
Can do a chunk to with Dark Pulse, but get's KOd by Sacred Sword, so can only revenge kill if Aegi is at less than 75% health
Normally would be able to, but if it's revenging a Char X, then Char X is probably at +1 anyway, so it's useless against that
Wins but takes a lot from Superpower and life orb damage
DeoS is faster and KOs it with Thunderbolt
wins
Wins
A+
Azumarillcan't touch except with Hp grass, is destroyed by Avest Azu
Wins, but takes over half it's health from Sucker Punch
If it's revenging, Clef probably has a +1 in spdef, so it loses. Even then, Clef can most of the tim, set up on it unless greninja gets really high damage rolls each time
Wins except for Scarf or Sand Rush in Sand
Can't revenge Scarf Chomp, otherwise wins
Cant' touch without HP grass, can't revenge if at +1 (which it probably is if you're revenging it)
Wins
Loses if M-Mawile is at more than 80% health, takes a good chunk from Sucker Punch, otherwise wins
+2 Quick Attack has a 62.5% chance to OHKO so most likely loses. either way, it'll die next turn from life orb damage
Has a 18.8% chance to KO with Bug Bite (assuming Bulky Sweeper), Greninja can only KO if M-Scizor is at less than 68% health. If M-Scizor is at +2, Greninja is 2HKOd by Bullet Punch, and always OHKOd by Bug Bite. So most of the time, it loses
Talonflamedat priority mane
TyranitarHydropump does 65.5 - 77.9%, and Stone Edge OHKOs 31.3% of the time. Greninja gets OHKOd by Banded Ttar, flat at loses to Assault Vest
If at +1, M-Tranitar outspeeds and OHKOS, which is likely if you're revenging it. Either way, Greninja can't KO unless M-Ttar is at less than 80% health, and will always get KOd by Stone Edge + life orb damage
Wins but takes a lot of damage in the process
It can only reliably revenge kill 6 of the top 21 pokemon in OU
Whereas Deoxy-S
Loses
Has a 50% to OHKO, so most likely wins unless Char X is at full health
Wins I guess
Wins
Wins
AzumarillDoes a huge Chunk with Psycho boost however can only KO if Azu is at less than 92% health, takes only about 40% from aqua jet. In most situations, wins, however not always. Loses to Belly jet
loses
loses
Wins unless sandrush
Wins
Wins
Does 61.1 - 71.9% with Super Power, however M-Gyra will KO back at +1
Wins unless scarf
Loses
+2 Quick Attack has 25% to OHKO, otherwise OHKOs with Psycho Boost
loses
Talonflameloses
TyranitarWins
Has 37.5% to OHKO, so unless it's at full health, normally wins
Wins
Can reliably beat 8 of the top 21 pokemon in OU
And then Talonflame
Loses to KS Shenangians
loses
Wins
Wins
does 80 - 94.6%, so can win if Landorus is not at full health
loses unless it's at half health
Azumarill70 - 82.6% so can win if not at full health, otherwise loses
Never OHOd by Sucker Punch, KOs with Flare Flitz, so wins
Wins unless Thunderbolt
Wins unless Scarf or Sand Rush
Does large Chunk with Brave-Bird, but most likely loses
Wins
Does large chunk with Brave-Bird, most likely loses however
Wins
Wins
Wins
Wins
TyranitarLoses
Loses
Wins
Talonflame can reliably beat 10 of the top 21 pokemon, and reliably wins against most of them if they're not at full heath.
keep in mind this is only in terms of revenge killing, which is what's being argued as Greninjas strong suit. To me it seems to just inferior to both talonflame and Deoxy-S in terms of a revenge killer. The only perk it has other either of them is not being weak to stealth rock and U-Turn, but U-Turn forces it to be even less bulky than it already is, which can really hurt it.
Alright, this has been bothering me for the longest time, but why is everyone automatically putting a +2 in their calcs? The only reason I did it is because it was the situation of revenge killing, which in that case, if M-Pinsir had KOd something, it probably has a +2. But otherwise, a +2 is nowhere near guaranteed, and that's the exact reason why I feel it should drop to A, because it NEEDS the +2 to do anything.
Also your calc on the Rotom-W is ridiculous because nobody in their right mind would let a M-Pinsir SD without switching to their Rotom-W the turn it SDs. So the real situation is that the M-Pinsir does about 50-60% to the Rotom-W, Rotom-W burns it, pain splits off some damage, and then KOs it with volt-switch.
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I guess I kinda agree with Talonflame getting dropped to A. The banded set still checks stuff superbly, but the rise of Sand offense gives us a new threat, Sand Rush Excadrill, which Talonflame cannot revenge kill. Most teams can kinda deal with it : HO usually packs Thundurus (which Talonflame has to sacrifice a lot of power to check) or the aformentioned Sand Rush Excadrill, while more defensive team will often carry something physically bulky like Hippowdon, Landorus-T, or Hetaran who just walls it. That being said, Talonflame isn't limited to the Choice Band Set : there's also the Bulk Up set which acts as a solid win condition, enabling it to setup over a lot of Pokemon that otherwise beat it, depending on whether it carries Taunt or Will-O-Wisp (I persoanlly prefer Taunt since Heatran is the most common switch-in to Talonflame and rarely carries Ancientpower/Stone Edge). I haven't actually used that set, so I'd like to hear from someone with more experience with it. But who knows, that set might make it worthy of A+, but the Band set alone? I don't think so.
However, I don't agree with Pinsir being A, it just makes Balance and Bulky Offense cry too hard, and also stomps all over Stall once Skarm/Zapdos? (is it used on Stall?) is removed. That being said, it does struggle with the same things Talonflame struggles with on HO (namely Thundurus and Excadrill), so it's not all that great in that particular matchup, but it can defenitely put in a lot of work against more defensive teams that can't really afford to sack a Pokemon every other turn. Even though HO can usually deal with it, and Stall can usually kinda deal with it too unless it's paired with Magnezone, its ability to walk all over more balanced and bulky teams makes it deserving of A+ rank IMO.
However, I don't agree with Pinsir being A, it just makes Balance and Bulky Offense cry too hard, and also stomps all over Stall once Skarm/Zapdos? (is it used on Stall?) is removed. That being said, it does struggle with the same things Talonflame struggles with on HO (namely Thundurus and Excadrill), so it's not all that great in that particular matchup, but it can defenitely put in a lot of work against more defensive teams that can't really afford to sack a Pokemon every other turn. Even though HO can usually deal with it, and Stall can usually kinda deal with it too unless it's paired with Magnezone, its ability to walk all over more balanced and bulky teams makes it deserving of A+ rank IMO.
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Rotosect
Banned deucer.
The point of using BU over SD or Choice Band is to allow Talonflame to survive more than one hit, but almost every move aimed at it will outright KO regardless of defense boosts.
Look at Talonflame's weaknesses: water, electric and rock. The former two are very common special attacking types, and the latter, though almost exclusively physical, is 4x SE against the bird.
The only scenario where a Bulk Up set is better than the alternatives is against Extremespeed users. Not enough to warrant its use in my opinion.
Kyurem: C- -----> C: This guy is mostly outclassed by Kyurem-B, yeah, but with support from Mega Abomasnow it becomes an awesome revenge killer that resists Aqua Jet and can assault the opponent with mighty Blizzards. It can also use an effective SubRoost set which it does better than its Black counterpart thanks to Pressure. I don't think it's in the same league as Reuniclus, Celebi or Slowking. Kyurem basically needs hail support plus the support Kyurem-B needs (Rapid Spinner/Defogger and something to get rid of Aegislash and Scizor).
Sooo I've looked over the rankings and it find it insane how Darmanitan isn't even ranked viable... I think none of us can deny Darmanitan's INCREDIBLE wallbreaking capabilities, 2HKOing and even OHKOing some of the most impenetrable walls in the OU tier:
252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 177-209 (44.9 - 53%) -- 29.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 510-600 (152.6 - 179.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 388-457 (98.4 - 115.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 322-379 (84.2 - 99.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 586-691 (83.2 - 98.1%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 802-945 (112.3 - 132.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 372-438 (102.1 - 120.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 177-209 (44.9 - 53%) -- 29.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 309-364 (72.8 - 85.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 288-339 (81.3 - 95.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 209-246 (68.7 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
That being said I do realize that he faces stiff competition over the faster, bulkier, and more versatile Victini. However, Darmanitan has many advantages over Victini including having a higher base attack stat which is incredibly significant as it allows Darmanitan to stay in on foes and score a 2HKO while the speed drop from V-create focrces Victini back out as he won't be fast enough to hit the 2nd V-create and finish the enemy off. Darmanitan can even late game sweep while Victinti cannot due to V-Create's stat drops. Darmanitan also faces stiff competition over Entei. However Entei nowhere near outclasses Darmanitan and i even would go as far as to say Darmanitan is better. Darmanitan has a superior movepool to Entei boasting an incredible utility move in U-turn. U-turn can be used to weaken a pokemon that switches into Darmanitan attempting to counter it to swich Darmanitan out and set up a favorable matchup. This is something Entei can only wish he could do. Entei also doesnt have access to Earthquake and Superpower which makes him pretty much walled by Heatran. Not to mention Darmanitan has the highest damage output out of all 3. Entei and Victini are both viable choices but in no way can I comprehend why Darmanitan is left out...
252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 177-209 (44.9 - 53%) -- 29.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 510-600 (152.6 - 179.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 388-457 (98.4 - 115.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 322-379 (84.2 - 99.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 586-691 (83.2 - 98.1%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 802-945 (112.3 - 132.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 372-438 (102.1 - 120.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 177-209 (44.9 - 53%) -- 29.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 309-364 (72.8 - 85.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 288-339 (81.3 - 95.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 209-246 (68.7 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
That being said I do realize that he faces stiff competition over the faster, bulkier, and more versatile Victini. However, Darmanitan has many advantages over Victini including having a higher base attack stat which is incredibly significant as it allows Darmanitan to stay in on foes and score a 2HKO while the speed drop from V-create focrces Victini back out as he won't be fast enough to hit the 2nd V-create and finish the enemy off. Darmanitan can even late game sweep while Victinti cannot due to V-Create's stat drops. Darmanitan also faces stiff competition over Entei. However Entei nowhere near outclasses Darmanitan and i even would go as far as to say Darmanitan is better. Darmanitan has a superior movepool to Entei boasting an incredible utility move in U-turn. U-turn can be used to weaken a pokemon that switches into Darmanitan attempting to counter it to swich Darmanitan out and set up a favorable matchup. This is something Entei can only wish he could do. Entei also doesnt have access to Earthquake and Superpower which makes him pretty much walled by Heatran. Not to mention Darmanitan has the highest damage output out of all 3. Entei and Victini are both viable choices but in no way can I comprehend why Darmanitan is left out...
BU is fully invested in special bulk and has priority roost to remove flying weakness. This means that it can take repeated electric hits in practice, roosting back to full health before getting in another BU or burning its tormentor and stalling it out.
Scald/surf/hydro pump are the only big problems in practice on the special side. If a user appears, switch out. They still won't OHKO though, unless presented by a strong STAB user.
On the physical side, if you are already at +2 then you burn the rock user and between bulk and burn, the 4x weakness is gone. Again, priority roost is your friend. If you are not +2 then you switch out.
BU Talon gets a lot of opinion from those who have never really used it, I find. It's actually incredibly hard to put down and being able to undo it's flying weaknesses during a priority roost helps a hell of a lot in that regard. Leftovers too, remember. It only takes a misplay from the opponent to get a few boosts going and suddenly you have bulk, speed, priority, status and strength all in one package. And it can't be burnt and it doesn't even really care about paralysis.
Scald/surf/hydro pump are the only big problems in practice on the special side. If a user appears, switch out. They still won't OHKO though, unless presented by a strong STAB user.
On the physical side, if you are already at +2 then you burn the rock user and between bulk and burn, the 4x weakness is gone. Again, priority roost is your friend. If you are not +2 then you switch out.
BU Talon gets a lot of opinion from those who have never really used it, I find. It's actually incredibly hard to put down and being able to undo it's flying weaknesses during a priority roost helps a hell of a lot in that regard. Leftovers too, remember. It only takes a misplay from the opponent to get a few boosts going and suddenly you have bulk, speed, priority, status and strength all in one package. And it can't be burnt and it doesn't even really care about paralysis.
No, the point of BU Talonflame is to act as a bulky boosting win condition not dissimilar to Calm Mind Clefable (it sacrifices good bulk, typing and SR/stat boost immunity for priority STAB and recovery), as well as a semi-lure that can set up over stuff that usually beats it. It can choose to do so with either Taunt or Will-O-Wisp. Taunt deals with most Heatran, Quagsire (PP stalling it), and defensive Pokemon in general. Will-O-Wisp deals with Landorus-T and Tyranitar as well as physically offensive Pokemon in general. Each move can also deal with Hippowdon, depending on whether it has Rock coverage or a phazing move. It also takes hits better than you'd expect :
4 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Talonflame: 224-266 (62.2 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (you can keep roost stalling for a miss)
252 Atk burned Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. +1 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 296-350 (82.4 - 97.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
0 Atk burned Landorus-T Stone Edge vs. +1 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 176-208 (49 - 57.9%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Hippowdon Rock Slide vs. +1 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 212-252 (59 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
(the +1 and the burn come from the fact that Talonflame burns these likely switch-ins, and then uses Bulk Up, or the other way round. It can then proceed to continue Roost stalling for a miss, or until the PP runs out, and then keep on setting up.)
Bulk Up Talonflame is an underrated threat, and should definitely be brought up when discussing Talonflame's viability in general.
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Recoil is a big part of this as you can see with both Victini and Entei neither of their STAB necessarily kill them in the process whereas the same cannot be said of Darm. Allowing you to continually use Victini and Entei as a wall breaker through out the game rather than sparingly.
True, but Darmanitan makes up in that through his raw power and just overall higher base attack stat which means his U-turns hit harder than Victini's. He also has EQ to OHKO Heatran which neither of them do, while also having rock slide to form the SlideQuake Coverage combo.
With a Band Darmanitan is very susceptible to a revenge kill, thanks to its below average speed and mediorcre defences.
Not only that, but thanks to Talonflame and Staraptor existing, Darmy really has no viable niche in OU. Sure he hits like a truck, but he's as slow as one too. Add to that his SR weakness, lack of recovery and single STAB, and he isn't as good as you think he is. And while yes, he has 140 attack, Kyurem-Black has 170, far, FAR outdoing Darmy. And that's not even counting his dual STAB, the decent Movepool (Fusion Bolt. Come on.) and ability to go mixed. Darmy is stuck being physical, and while he is very powerful, he's just not OU material IMHO.
They all have coverage tools so Edgequake doesn't give him that much of an advantage as Victini has Bolt Strike to deal with bulky waters, as well as the ability to go special/mixed, and Entei has Extreme Speed and Bulldoze to an extent as well as Stone Edge and Sacred Fire has a 50% burn rate. Even if he does have more power there are a lot of powerful wall breakers in OU that doesn't sacrifice their longevity the way Darm does to fulfill their role.
Darmanitan has Sheer Force allowing it to outdamage Kyurem-B on the physical side
252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mew: 208-246 (51.4 - 60.8%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mew: 234-276 (57.9 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
But yes, Darmanitan is unviable for OU thanks to its limited moveset, SR weakness, low speed, decent defenses, lack of priority, single stab, limited movepool and so on.
There are enough Fire-Types that do the job much better like Mega-Charizard, Talonflame, Victini, Entei,
Sheer Force only works with moves that have secondary effects, like Flare Blitz and
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Most of Darmantain's moves have secondary effects. However I agree that Darmanitian shouldn't be ranked. Unlike Entei, Flare Blitz does not have a high chance to burn. Sure blah blah blah Raw power. How about putting Rampardos in OU then. Also Darmanitian doesn't have the priority of Entei's ExtremeSpeed or Victini's powerful coverage.
Only Flareblitz and Rockslide are affected high crit chance moves are not counted as secondary effects.
Monte Cristo
Banned deucer.
"better physical wall"
no
Hippo is a great pillar on stall, it's one of the only pokemon who can counter CB terrakion and DD Zard X in one slot and thus makes it very valuable. However this is not saying that's all hippo does, Hippo can consistently not be set up bait (skarm does that too but listing pros), check lots and lots of threatening pokemon such as almost everything on that list minus azumarill (take off azu iirc CB waterfall 2hkos), boosted MMaw, Breloom, Venusaur (lol it carries sleep or hp fire) and Gyarados. also it's not a good answer to terrak:
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 144-172 (43.1 - 51.4%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 166-196 (49.7 - 58.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
compared to hippo:
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 187-222 (44.5 - 52.8%) -- 25% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Hippo also has a big attack stat for a wall and can damage back threatening foes instead of phazing them and encouraing them to repeat till they break skarm:
4 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 390-462 (120.7 - 143%) -- guaranteed OHKO
all of your annoying "mis arguments" aside I think it should go up to A
edit: come on guys you saw this coming- I'll make a hippo for A+ argument later
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