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Pokémon Greninja
- Thread starter Hypercut
- Start date
- Status
This is the set I have been having insanely good luck with:.
Greninja @no item
Protean of course
max atk, max spe, jolly
-Acrobatics
-Water Shuriken
-U-turn
-Smack Down/Rock Slide/P-up Punch/Night Slash/Thief/Toxic
The whole idea of this set is with 95 base attack, STAB 110 power acrobatics, and 122 base speed, this Gren can easily outspeed and deal with so many threats.
My favorite thing about this set is using acrobatics to 2hko every Goodra, and even 2-3hko Blissey. I love U-turn as well because switch advantage is everything in the meta these days.
Water Shuriken is for niche situations, such as outspeeding 0 spe TalonFlame(s) which either does ~48%, ~60%, ~85%, or is an OHKO depending on how many hits.
I also just realized tangentially that I should stop running Arm Thrust on M-Heracross because it caps at 75 power.
Counters to the set include Ice Shard revengers like Mamo and the rare Weavile. If you are still Flying type it can save you to use water shuriken before they hit you. Conk and other mach punchers are also problematic considering if you are still Water/Dark you are an easy ohko from every Conk, Infernape, and Breloom set out there. U-turn being STAB hits everything else you want to avoid.
Pairs extremely well with Clefable allowing for insane coverage. Needs walls for support for maximum effect, also volt-turns fantastically with the likes of Jolteon, Zapdos, and Thundurus.
On the subject of the last attack, Smack Down -> U-turn into a ground type can surprise stuff like Skarm and Zapdos and Thundurus or at least force a switch. Rock Slide really only hits ice types, flying types, and I guess bugs. Originally it was for Volca but acro takes care of that with aplomb. P-up punch seems like a good idea but I have rarely found an opportunity to use it effectively, however it was very effective to hit something on the switch (everyone expects special gren) and then either KO, or U-turn out for great damage and a switch. Finally Night Slash's power is underwhelming and I find I don't miss the Dark STAB with U-turn for psychics and acro hits any ghosts you would dream of staying in on (avoid Cofag because it will get rid of protean) and finally Thief (which got buffed to 60 power btw) will ruin your Acrobatics but it is fantastic to use when you know you are about to lose Gren and want to leave a lasting effect. Best thing I ever did was use thief on a Trevenant, steal its Lum berry, get burned, heal, and KO on the next turn with Acrobatics. Also great for dealing with pesky eviolite users like Gliscor and Porygon2. Toxic btw is fantastic because becoming Poison type first means it gets 100% accurate Toxic and can also thus become immune to a toxic you might be expecting from a Mandibuzz/Blissey/Chansey
Greninja @no item
Protean of course
max atk, max spe, jolly
-Acrobatics
-Water Shuriken
-U-turn
-Smack Down/Rock Slide/P-up Punch/Night Slash/Thief/Toxic
The whole idea of this set is with 95 base attack, STAB 110 power acrobatics, and 122 base speed, this Gren can easily outspeed and deal with so many threats.
My favorite thing about this set is using acrobatics to 2hko every Goodra, and even 2-3hko Blissey. I love U-turn as well because switch advantage is everything in the meta these days.
Water Shuriken is for niche situations, such as outspeeding 0 spe TalonFlame(s) which either does ~48%, ~60%, ~85%, or is an OHKO depending on how many hits.
I also just realized tangentially that I should stop running Arm Thrust on M-Heracross because it caps at 75 power.
Counters to the set include Ice Shard revengers like Mamo and the rare Weavile. If you are still Flying type it can save you to use water shuriken before they hit you. Conk and other mach punchers are also problematic considering if you are still Water/Dark you are an easy ohko from every Conk, Infernape, and Breloom set out there. U-turn being STAB hits everything else you want to avoid.
Pairs extremely well with Clefable allowing for insane coverage. Needs walls for support for maximum effect, also volt-turns fantastically with the likes of Jolteon, Zapdos, and Thundurus.
On the subject of the last attack, Smack Down -> U-turn into a ground type can surprise stuff like Skarm and Zapdos and Thundurus or at least force a switch. Rock Slide really only hits ice types, flying types, and I guess bugs. Originally it was for Volca but acro takes care of that with aplomb. P-up punch seems like a good idea but I have rarely found an opportunity to use it effectively, however it was very effective to hit something on the switch (everyone expects special gren) and then either KO, or U-turn out for great damage and a switch. Finally Night Slash's power is underwhelming and I find I don't miss the Dark STAB with U-turn for psychics and acro hits any ghosts you would dream of staying in on (avoid Cofag because it will get rid of protean) and finally Thief (which got buffed to 60 power btw) will ruin your Acrobatics but it is fantastic to use when you know you are about to lose Gren and want to leave a lasting effect. Best thing I ever did was use thief on a Trevenant, steal its Lum berry, get burned, heal, and KO on the next turn with Acrobatics. Also great for dealing with pesky eviolite users like Gliscor and Porygon2. Toxic btw is fantastic because becoming Poison type first means it gets 100% accurate Toxic and can also thus become immune to a toxic you might be expecting from a Mandibuzz/Blissey/Chansey
I've been running this set for a few days and it has hands down been the best physical Greninja set I've used. Special still outclasses it, but it is still good and unexpected.
Greninja (M) @ Dread Plate
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Jolly Nature/Hasty Nature
- Acrobatics
- Fling
- Power-Up Punch/U-turn/Ice Beam/Hidden Power Ground
- Water Shuriken/Waterfall/U-turn
Okay, this looks super gimmicky, but it works. Acrobatics is really strong after Fling and is the strongest Physical attack that Greninja can use. It is a must on any set. Fling reaches 90 power when used with a plate + STAB and is Greninja's second-strongest physical attack (strongest with Iron Ball, but don't do that) and, like Acrobatics, has no immunities. For the remaining two moveslots, I have only used Power-up Punch and Water Shuriken so far, but the other slots help with dealing with some of Greninja's checks. Power-up Punch raises Greninja's mediocre attack and is useful since Greninja is able to force a lot of switches with its unpredictability. Water Shuriken priority is pretty helpful and has saved me a few times. It is a nice last resort move against faster Pokemon like Scarfers, Noivern, Jolteon, Aerodactyl, and others but is a bit weak. If you want strong Water STAB use Waterfall.
Unfortunately, this set has some 4 moveslot syndrome. I've often found that I missed U-turn a lot on this set and there were tons of times that I could have used it to my advantage. Going mixed would also be a good idea sometimes since Ice Beam has so much power and coverage and Hidden Power Ground covers the Electric, Steel and Rock type Pokemon that resist Acrobatics for super-effective damage and makes it immune to Electric-type attacks that will come at it when it is Water or Flying type. You could run Hydro Pump as well, but I'm not sure if it would be able to fit in the set. I'll do some more testing with the other options and come back for more feedback. Try it for yourselves. ^_^
EDIT: Oh calcs
+1 252 Atk Protean Greninja Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 393-463 (55 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Not that impressive considering Blissey could Thunder Wave and end the sweep. Chansey is an even worse situation. Also provides that you have used both Power-up Punch and Fling beforehand)
252 Atk Greninja Water Shuriken (3 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 144-168 (47.6 - 55.6%) -- approx. 50.4% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Greninja Water Shuriken (4 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 272-336 (90 - 111.2%) -- approx. 50% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Protean Greninja Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 456-536 (110.1 - 129.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Probably wouldn't want to do this in fear of Mach Punch)
+1 252 Atk Protean Greninja Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 267-315 (89.5 - 105.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Dread Plate Greninja Fling (90 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 204-240 (62.9 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Not good enough...)
252 Atk Protean Greninja Acrobatics (55 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 135-160 (53.5 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (used in fear of Focus Blast)
252 Atk Protean Greninja Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 271-319 (107.5 - 126.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Greninja Water Shuriken (4 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 360-432 (99.4 - 119.3%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Greninja Water Shuriken (4 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 224-272 (58 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Dread Plate Greninja Fling (90 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 204-240 (52.8 - 62.1%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Protean Greninja Power-Up Punch vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 216-256 (77.4 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Greninja Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Venusaur: 182-216 (50 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Greninja Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Venusaur: 360-426 (98.9 - 117%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Greninja Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 242-288 (66.4 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Greninja Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 362-428 (99.4 - 117.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 153-181 (53.6 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 205-243 (71.9 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 218-260 (56.7 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (252 EV's will give you a 75% to OHKO after rocks :/)
4 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 218-260 (67.7 - 80.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
108 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 242-288 (75.1 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (Hmm...)
4 SpA Greninja Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus-T: 218-260 (72.9 - 86.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 200-236 (61.7 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Switch out after this unless Dragonite does not use Dragon Dance)
88 SpA Protean Greninja Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Magnezone: 316-376 (91.8 - 109.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Protean Greninja Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Magnezone: 292-348 (84.8 - 101.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
188 SpA Protean Greninja Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Magnezone: 348-412 (101.1 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 SpA Protean Greninja Hidden Power Ground vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 292-348 (103.5 - 123.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Greninja outspeeds Scarfed Magnezone)
4 SpA Protean Greninja Hidden Power Ground vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 180-212 (64.5 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Greninja Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Manectric: 162-192 (57.6 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (on turn it Mega Evolves)
Sometimes Greninja just doesn't have enough power, but a few of these calcs surprise me. It's definitely not as consistent as the standard Special set, but still pretty good.
Greninja (M) @ Dread Plate
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Jolly Nature/Hasty Nature
- Acrobatics
- Fling
- Power-Up Punch/U-turn/Ice Beam/Hidden Power Ground
- Water Shuriken/Waterfall/U-turn
Okay, this looks super gimmicky, but it works. Acrobatics is really strong after Fling and is the strongest Physical attack that Greninja can use. It is a must on any set. Fling reaches 90 power when used with a plate + STAB and is Greninja's second-strongest physical attack (strongest with Iron Ball, but don't do that) and, like Acrobatics, has no immunities. For the remaining two moveslots, I have only used Power-up Punch and Water Shuriken so far, but the other slots help with dealing with some of Greninja's checks. Power-up Punch raises Greninja's mediocre attack and is useful since Greninja is able to force a lot of switches with its unpredictability. Water Shuriken priority is pretty helpful and has saved me a few times. It is a nice last resort move against faster Pokemon like Scarfers, Noivern, Jolteon, Aerodactyl, and others but is a bit weak. If you want strong Water STAB use Waterfall.
Unfortunately, this set has some 4 moveslot syndrome. I've often found that I missed U-turn a lot on this set and there were tons of times that I could have used it to my advantage. Going mixed would also be a good idea sometimes since Ice Beam has so much power and coverage and Hidden Power Ground covers the Electric, Steel and Rock type Pokemon that resist Acrobatics for super-effective damage and makes it immune to Electric-type attacks that will come at it when it is Water or Flying type. You could run Hydro Pump as well, but I'm not sure if it would be able to fit in the set. I'll do some more testing with the other options and come back for more feedback. Try it for yourselves. ^_^
EDIT: Oh calcs
+1 252 Atk Protean Greninja Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 393-463 (55 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Not that impressive considering Blissey could Thunder Wave and end the sweep. Chansey is an even worse situation. Also provides that you have used both Power-up Punch and Fling beforehand)
252 Atk Greninja Water Shuriken (3 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 144-168 (47.6 - 55.6%) -- approx. 50.4% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Greninja Water Shuriken (4 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 272-336 (90 - 111.2%) -- approx. 50% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Protean Greninja Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 456-536 (110.1 - 129.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Probably wouldn't want to do this in fear of Mach Punch)
+1 252 Atk Protean Greninja Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 267-315 (89.5 - 105.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Dread Plate Greninja Fling (90 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 204-240 (62.9 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Not good enough...)
252 Atk Protean Greninja Acrobatics (55 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 135-160 (53.5 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (used in fear of Focus Blast)
252 Atk Protean Greninja Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 271-319 (107.5 - 126.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Greninja Water Shuriken (4 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 360-432 (99.4 - 119.3%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Greninja Water Shuriken (4 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 224-272 (58 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Dread Plate Greninja Fling (90 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 204-240 (52.8 - 62.1%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Protean Greninja Power-Up Punch vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 216-256 (77.4 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Greninja Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Venusaur: 182-216 (50 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Greninja Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Venusaur: 360-426 (98.9 - 117%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Greninja Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 242-288 (66.4 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Greninja Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 362-428 (99.4 - 117.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 153-181 (53.6 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 205-243 (71.9 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 218-260 (56.7 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (252 EV's will give you a 75% to OHKO after rocks :/)
4 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 218-260 (67.7 - 80.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
108 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 242-288 (75.1 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (Hmm...)
4 SpA Greninja Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus-T: 218-260 (72.9 - 86.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 200-236 (61.7 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Switch out after this unless Dragonite does not use Dragon Dance)
88 SpA Protean Greninja Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Magnezone: 316-376 (91.8 - 109.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Protean Greninja Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Magnezone: 292-348 (84.8 - 101.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
188 SpA Protean Greninja Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Magnezone: 348-412 (101.1 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 SpA Protean Greninja Hidden Power Ground vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 292-348 (103.5 - 123.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Greninja outspeeds Scarfed Magnezone)
4 SpA Protean Greninja Hidden Power Ground vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 180-212 (64.5 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Greninja Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Manectric: 162-192 (57.6 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (on turn it Mega Evolves)
Sometimes Greninja just doesn't have enough power, but a few of these calcs surprise me. It's definitely not as consistent as the standard Special set, but still pretty good.
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I made a team using Pokes I normally see in OU but with sets you don't normally see to surprise a lot of people. Has been doing great so far. One of the members
I personally run:
Greninja @ Life Orb
Proteam
Jolly
6HP / 252 Att / 252 Spe
-Power Up Punch
-Shadow Sneak
-Waterfall
-Rock Slide
So many people switch into their Special walls only for them to get taken out or if they lack something faster I can get free Power Up Punches. Shadow Sneak saved me tons of times and gives a Fighting resistance which is something Special Greninjas cant pull off(unless it learns Shadow Ball?) also using Rock Slide potentially makes you able to avoid being revenge killed by Talonflame?
Most times I use it though is late game where its a very good cleaner.
I personally run:
Greninja @ Life Orb
Proteam
Jolly
6HP / 252 Att / 252 Spe
-Power Up Punch
-Shadow Sneak
-Waterfall
-Rock Slide
So many people switch into their Special walls only for them to get taken out or if they lack something faster I can get free Power Up Punches. Shadow Sneak saved me tons of times and gives a Fighting resistance which is something Special Greninjas cant pull off(unless it learns Shadow Ball?) also using Rock Slide potentially makes you able to avoid being revenge killed by Talonflame?
Most times I use it though is late game where its a very good cleaner.
This set actually looks really good! As much as I love killing stray Charizards with Rock Slide, I have to recommend U-turn over it because it is just such a good move. It basically ignores any checks or counters to Greninja that are not faster and lets you keep your momentum. Rock Slide is still great against the Flying and Bug type Pokemon out there, but it's usually not going to save you against Talonflame or Mega Pinsir unless you have great prediction and use it right before they switch in. U-turn is just more useful against more Pokemon, but I definitely understand if your team is weak to things like Dragonite, Togekiss, Mandibuzz, Charizard, Black Kyurem, Galvantula and the like.
I usually pair up my Greninja with mega lucario. But here's his set.
Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
6HP/252SpA/252Spe
Timid Nature
-Water Pledge
-Dark Pulse
-Ice Beam
-Mat Block
Basically, Greninja's main use in my team is set up support for Mega Lucario. He uses mat block so Lucario can use Swords Dance safely. The rest are mainly staples for a special Greninja (with water pledge at 80 now, I figured it's a good choice)
Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
6HP/252SpA/252Spe
Timid Nature
-Water Pledge
-Dark Pulse
-Ice Beam
-Mat Block
Basically, Greninja's main use in my team is set up support for Mega Lucario. He uses mat block so Lucario can use Swords Dance safely. The rest are mainly staples for a special Greninja (with water pledge at 80 now, I figured it's a good choice)
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Just a minor nitpick, but why not Scald over Pledge? Same power, but with a 30% burn chance.
That's not a bad idea... I think I'll go with that
What is the full set on your greninja? I am likin your EV spread, but I am more interested in using an Expert Belt/Life Orb cleaner/revenge killer with U-.turn, Water Shuriken, Ice Beam, and either Grass Knot or Extrasensory at the moment
Some useful EV info since so many people here like to run a Special set with U-Turn.
Greninja @ Life Orb
Hasty/Naive
56 Atk / 252 SAtk / 200 Spd
This spread allows him to outspeed all base 115 pokemon, where most of the notable pokemon he outspeeds reside. Sacrificing defenses with his nature instead of attack allows him to punch a bit harder with U-Turn, which the leftover EVs from speed helps with as well.
Also worth note, if you don't need Greninja to be the fastest thing on your team you can run him with a Mild/Rash nature with the exact same spread and he will outspeed base 100 pokemon every time.
Greninja @ Life Orb
Hasty/Naive
56 Atk / 252 SAtk / 200 Spd
This spread allows him to outspeed all base 115 pokemon, where most of the notable pokemon he outspeeds reside. Sacrificing defenses with his nature instead of attack allows him to punch a bit harder with U-Turn, which the leftover EVs from speed helps with as well.
Also worth note, if you don't need Greninja to be the fastest thing on your team you can run him with a Mild/Rash nature with the exact same spread and he will outspeed base 100 pokemon every time.
My Greninja was a gift from a friend and I don't have the option to get another. He has a naughty nature with 92 attack, 164 special attack and 252 speed EV's. I had meant for it to have been 88 as 168 but I had him beat the wrong bag. I wish to use him as a late game cleaner and revenge killer so I am using Water Shuriken, U-Turn, Ice Beam and Extrasensory. What threats am I missing out on? He is on a VoltTurn team with Scizor, Hydreigon, Forretress, Rotom-W, and Infernape.
Running max speed is a much better idea IMO because if you don't fully invest in speed, you're getting outsped by other Greninja, Alakazam, Tornadus-T, Sceptile should it ever appear in an OU battle (probably not, but you never know), Hawlucha and more. These threats (aside from Sceptile) are pretty crucial to outspeed, so it is almost mandatory to run max speed on Greninja. The best EV spreads for the Attack, Sp. Atk and Speed on the U-turn special sets are probably 4/252/252 and 88/168/252 (OHKO's Multiscale Dragonite with Protean Ice Beam).
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It's totally not worth compromising SpA or Spe to make U-Turn hit a little bit harder and not other Physical moves should ever be used on Greninja (unless he gets something cool like Knock Off or Elemental Punches from tutor in the next games).
I don't know about that.... On certain teams, it is still worth the compromise. If you have other team members to deal with Alakazam then it's definitely worth it. Tornadus, Sceptile, and Hawlucha are pretty much non-existent in the OU meta. You don't want him going against other Greninja on a coin toss anyways. 50/50 chance to OHKO or be OHKOed is not something you should be building your team around. Greninja's best niche is as a fast specialattacker and pivot. Especially pivot. Wasting EVs for niche situations on speed when you could be doing extra damage with U-Turn in every match seems like a very reasonable trade off.
The only threat I'm really worried about is Starmie at 115 base speed, and even Starmie will not willingly switch into Greninja specifically because it knows it will be outsped and OHKOed, and Greninja hardly has the defenses to switch into anything. Alakazam will most likely not switch into Greninja for the exact same reason. He is an important threat to keep in mind, though aside from him and Starmie the only threats worth keeping in mind are base 110 (most specifically, Lati@s).
Given his role, one can expect people to switch in threats that can soak a hit and OHKO in return and Greninja will be able to outspeed and U-Turn off all these pokemon without a problem.
The only threat I'm really worried about is Starmie at 115 base speed, and even Starmie will not willingly switch into Greninja specifically because it knows it will be outsped and OHKOed, and Greninja hardly has the defenses to switch into anything. Alakazam will most likely not switch into Greninja for the exact same reason. He is an important threat to keep in mind, though aside from him and Starmie the only threats worth keeping in mind are base 110 (most specifically, Lati@s).
Given his role, one can expect people to switch in threats that can soak a hit and OHKO in return and Greninja will be able to outspeed and U-Turn off all these pokemon without a problem.
Raikou is 115 base speed too iirc, but the point is a slightly stronger U-Turn will not matter much, and sure you want to avoid having to rely on speed ties but if it comes down to it it's better to speed tie than to know you'll be slower.
I mean how much extra damage do 52 extra Atk EVs really give you, U-Turn is mostly used for grabbing momentum anyway.
I mean how much extra damage do 52 extra Atk EVs really give you, U-Turn is mostly used for grabbing momentum anyway.
Attack investment is used to ohko specially defensive Celebi with u-turn, or it was when I last heard. Somewhere around 96 in standard, not 52, and it guarantees the ko.
But If Greninja uses Fling, he'll lose his Dark STAB.
I hate that Greninja doesn't get Natural Gift. That would be far better than Fling.
But anyways, here's a Nice set I'm thinking about ATM.
Greninja (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Protean
EVs: 72 Atk / 186 Sp.Atk / 252 Spd
Hasty/Naive Nature
- Power Up Punch
- Shadow Sneak
- Grass Knot
- U-Turn/Rock Slide/Waterfall/Night Slash/Bounce
Why Grass Knot?
- To break Smeargle's Sash and Absorb Spore, then you get a free Power Up Punch for the Clean 2HKO.
- Not to mention you can hit and OHKO all Water/Ground Types for x4 Damage.
- This set completely wrecks Breloom. You can also Grass knot to Absorb Spore (if they have a Sash they will spore) or go straight for the Shadow Sneak if you predict Mach Punch, and then land a Power Up Punch as you Shadow Sneak on the Predicted Mach Punch or U-Turn for the Escape and KO. You might need a bit of Prediction Game, but this set is fun to use. You can even just leave and U-Turn after you've become Ghost and taken Mach Punch.
>>You won't K.O w/ U-Turn after the continuous hits unless you score a Power Up Punch.<<
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Also, Power-up punch is only really that useful for bulky pokemon that can AFFORD to boost slowly, such as Hariyama in lower tiers, so this combined with Greninja's U-turn makes the set a little gimmicky.
I would like to add that when playing on the ladder (quite low on the ladder, as I was testing out an ingame team, thus I will not be fighting legendaries (even though they are OU, or UU or whatever the case)), I've used a Scarfed Gardevoir for Healing Wish, and whenever a Greninja comes out, I would easily be able to kill it w/ a Scarfed Moonblast.
Is it that odd for Greninjas to use a Focus Sash? It seems that it could be very useful, although it comes at the cost of the Life Orb power, but it could be very useful due to the poor 72/67/71 defenses.
I would like to add that when playing on the ladder (quite low on the ladder, as I was testing out an ingame team, thus I will not be fighting legendaries (even though they are OU, or UU or whatever the case)), I've used a Scarfed Gardevoir for Healing Wish, and whenever a Greninja comes out, I would easily be able to kill it w/ a Scarfed Moonblast.
Is it that odd for Greninjas to use a Focus Sash? It seems that it could be very useful, although it comes at the cost of the Life Orb power, but it could be very useful due to the poor 72/67/71 defenses.
Agreeing with Toto about Power-up Punch. It honestly hasn't been very effective for me. Greninja can only really get Power-up Punches on the switch or on targets that don't expect Greninja to be able to do anything to it (like the blobs for example), but it really isn't worth it in the long run because it is so weak. It can work, but it is inconsistent.
Sash seems ok, but Greninja's bulk doesn't seem quite low enough to use it. Plus Sash Greninja is very vulnerable to hazards. It seems like it would be difficult to guarantee the Sash use. I haven't used one though, so I can't say anything from experience. Let us know if it works.
EDIT: What am I talking about? Greninja has similar bulk to Infernape or Deoxys-S. A focus sash Spikes setter could possibly be useful. I'm not sure if running a Physical set is a good idea with one though, because the Sash won't always trigger, making Acrobatics difficult to use with it. IDK
Sash seems ok, but Greninja's bulk doesn't seem quite low enough to use it. Plus Sash Greninja is very vulnerable to hazards. It seems like it would be difficult to guarantee the Sash use. I haven't used one though, so I can't say anything from experience. Let us know if it works.
EDIT: What am I talking about? Greninja has similar bulk to Infernape or Deoxys-S. A focus sash Spikes setter could possibly be useful. I'm not sure if running a Physical set is a good idea with one though, because the Sash won't always trigger, making Acrobatics difficult to use with it. IDK
Nobody uses Celebi so I don't see how this is very relevant tbh.
using this post for c&c stuff lol
Completed Analyses
XY Ubers
Giratina-O
Heatran
Bronzong
Zekrom
Deoxys-D
Cloyster
Deoxys-S
Dialga
Gliscor
Thundurus
Mewtwo
XY OU
Venusaur
Ferrothorn
Gyarados (took over and changed a lot of content + writing)
Gliscor (Specially Defensive set)
Slowbro
GP Checks
many, too lazy to keep track of them
Completed Analyses
XY Ubers
Giratina-O
Heatran
Bronzong
Zekrom
Deoxys-D
Cloyster
Deoxys-S
Dialga
Gliscor
Thundurus
Mewtwo
XY OU
Venusaur
Ferrothorn
Gyarados (took over and changed a lot of content + writing)
Gliscor (Specially Defensive set)
Slowbro
GP Checks
many, too lazy to keep track of them
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Love this set. Might not be the strongest hitting Greninja set and defiantly not the most effective but predictions is by far my favourite part of playing Pokemon and this set is lovely for prediction.
It has its uses.
Also, did anybody watch a certain Smash Bros related Nintendo Direct today?
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