Eviolite

sax king said:
So there has been talk of making an Evo Stone team, and I was wondering....

What are some good leads? This one I don't know; most prevoes are slow and poor leads... uhh unless you run hail/sun/ss you shouldn't have an nfe lead (ironically the most viable NFE teams are prob. rain based)
Walls (easy question)? Natt -er Tesshido
Sweepers? Scyther... uhh... bulk up dotekkutsu or whatever the hell roob's prevo is named
Supporters? uhh... chansey, Porygon 2 (not so much support but still you get the point), Misdreavus, Wartortle (bulkiest spinner)
Is it even viable competitively?
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Something like Politoed/Nattorei Tesshido/Scyther (or Roob's prevo)/Chansey (or P-2 or Misdreavus if Roob's prevo was also chosen)/Wartortle sounds like a decent idea by theorymon. But theorymon is never really concrete though.
 
TorchicBlaziken said:
Wow... The Magnet line finally has something great to use as an item for eliminating Steel-types. Possibly the best part about Magneton using this is that even if its item gets knocked off, it's still a good Pokémon. It will be really good on a hail team with the cutest Pokémon ever, Kyurem!

Plus Magneton already has higher speed. Now the only reason not to use Magneton for eliminating Steel-types is for recovering lost Substitute HP with Leftovers and also for the 40 more HP stat points and 20 more Special Attack points. (not base stats)
An actual good reason would be because Magneton can't hold Balloon and then Magnet Rise anymore.

And considering that half of all Blissey sets don't even invest in HP, and Munchlax should never invest that much in HP... It should be bulkier than a Chansey with this thing! ...I wonder what effect one of these Munchlax, with Curse, will have on Little Cup... Poor Little Cup. If I wasn't experienced enough to not instantly judge something because of its stats, I might even go so far as to call Munchlax broken under the Defensive Characteristic. But, I've never played Little Cup, so I can't say with even a slight amount of sureness.
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Mind you, the whole little cup (and indeed the whole metagame) has got tougher this generation.
 
How would this work on Pururiru (Burungeru pre-evo)? Pururiru has 55/50/85 defenses, and gets both Recover and Pain Split to make up for the loss of Leftovers. It also doesn't lose out on any moves that Burungeru gets, save Hyper Beam and Giga Impact. Is it a viable alternative or just plain not worth it?
 
One thing I've noticed is that all the best users of Pre-evo stone are Pokemon that were once Fully Evolved, but got an evolution in a later generation. Scyther (who is a godamn beast with it), Rhydon, Tangela, Dusclops, Chansey, Magneton etc, etc. This just adds further to my theory that GF had no business giving any of these pokemon evolutions (a major sore point for me in the whole of Pokemon, but a discussion for another day)

But yeah, many NFE's who have an evolution from the same gen tend to have worse stats, that lack in Atk, SpAtk, or Spe, and don't really benefit from boosted defenses. One example I've seen people talk about: Lileep.
 
AriadosPerson said:
How would this work on Pururiru (Burungeru pre-evo)? Pururiru has 55/50/85 defenses, and gets both Recover and Pain Split to make up for the loss of Leftovers. It also doesn't lose out on any moves that Burungeru gets, save Hyper Beam and Giga Impact. Is it a viable alternative or just plain not worth it?
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I´d say it is even more setup bait for anything with Guts(e.g. Roobushin) than Burungeru because of even less offensive stats. It also has a lot less HP, which makes them about even on the defensive, I think.

I tried some Pre-Evo stone sets:

Tangela(subseeder) - Died too quickly due to the lack of Lefties in the almost always existing sandstorm.

Porygon2 - BEAST, but you all knew that already. Can deal damage as well with Analyze and a little SpAntk investment.

Golbat - Quite nice resistances and access to Super Fang, Whirlwind and Roost. Again, lack of lefties hurts a little and me using it on a stall team always got haxxed out, but that aside it´s a great mon for racking up residual damage.
 
JojoX3 said:
Golbat - Quite nice resistances and access to Super Fang, Whirlwind and Roost. Again, lack of lefties hurts a little and me using it on a stall team always got haxxed out, but that aside it´s a great mon for racking up residual damage.
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I have been really wanting to try this out, mainly because its my favorite evolutionary line, (love zubat and crobat) and he definitely doesn't have absolutely TERRIBLE stats. I mean, 75/70/75 is definitely passable for defenses when its also backed by a evolution stone, not to mention its passable 90 base speed.

Roost, Whirlwind, Super Fang, and... I dont know... Substitute or something to protect against status. Of course you NEED toxic stall with this.
 
Cooky said:
When the lower tiers are established though this item could well define those metagames. I can't help but feel that this item will stagnate these tiers, just looking at the extreme defensive potential of many of the pokemon detailed in this thread.
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I think UU at least should be alright - although the Prevo stone does make a lot of bulky mons very viable, it looks to be the case that many very powerful pokemon may be excluded from OU this Gen due to the increased competition and arguably power creep. These should help counteract Prevo stone's influence, I think. If not we'll probably see a ton of Knock Off on teams wanting to be offensive to deal with it.
 
On the Subject of Golbat, I used a Nasty Plot Crobat back in the DPPt metagame. I wonder if the same could be accomplished, but in a more bulky fashion with Golbat.

Also, has anybody else tried running this on Phione? I've made a decent Toxic Stall set for my Rain Stall team

Phione @Pre-evo stone
Hydration, Modest Nature
Rest
Toxic
Surf
Ice Beam/Grass Knot
 
cco said:
On the Subject of Golbat, I used a Nasty Plot Crobat back in the DPPt metagame. I wonder if the same could be accomplished, but in a more bulky fashion with Golbat.

Also, has anybody else tried running this on Phione? I've made a decent Toxic Stall set for my Rain Stall team

Phione @Pre-evo stone
Hydration, Modest Nature
Rest
Toxic
Surf
Ice Beam/Grass Knot
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...only Phione isn't a Prevo as it doesn't evolve, so it gets no bonus from the stone.
 
Gigiaru @ Evo Stone
4 HP / 252 Attack / 252 Speed
Adamant

Gear Change
Gear Saucer
Return
Volt Change

I really wish it had at least Wild Bolt, but meh. Anyway, Gigiaru, Gigigiaru's pre-evolution has 60 base HP and a nice base 95 Defence and 85 Special Defence, which gives it 261/339/309, which is a bit weaker than 252/0 Jirachi. It also has a passable 80 Attack and 50 Speed, which is meh. On the other hand, it has a pure Steel typing, which helps defensively. I'm assuming this is for lower tiers, but Gigiaru could come into a weaker attacker and set up multiple Gear Changes, to turn into a weaker but much bulkier version of its evolution, Gigigiaru. For comparison, Gigigiaru has defensive stats of 261/266/206. Same base HP and SDef, and 115 vs 95 base Defence. However, it's a fair bit weaker because of the loss of Life Orb and the lower base Attack, to the extent that you'd need 3 Gear Changes to make up for 1 Gear Change + Life Orb. You also lose a big chunk of speed. Still, it's 1.5 times bulkier on the Special side, and something around 1.25 times bulkier physically.
 
That's one of those HUGE losses in power that just can't be made up in bulk. Instead of getting 3 boosts to try and equal the same power as the stronger Evo, you could use the stronger Evo and say GG after 3 boosts.
 
TBH I wouldn't use either of the gears... no matter how you look at it, mono-steel is a shitty typing for offense. I wouldn't use Gigigear and I wouldn't use gigear.
 
Cooky said:
It might be viable, but many Stoned NFEs are outclassed by their evolutions despite higher defenses so it would be hard to justify making a wholly Evo Stone team competitively.

When the lower tiers are established though this item could well define those metagames. I can't help but feel that this item will stagnate these tiers, just looking at the extreme defensive potential of many of the pokemon detailed in this thread.
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It's pretty clear he isn't creating this team for tourneys
 
Having a lower HP stat but beefed up bulk suits the defensive strategies of some Pokemon - users of Pain Split, Leech Seed etc. But using the stone on pre-evolutions significantly lowers your damage output as well. The pre-evolutions of Burungeru and Nattorei tanked hits well, obviously, but couldn't really do shit back to the Pokemon they were walling.

This stone has the novelty factor going for it, but when we're playing bulky offence or balanced we need the defensive Pokemon in our team to be able to hit back hard as well. For example, I was really impressed by how Seadra could take hits from +1 Salamence and KO back with Ice Beam, but eventually I realized that I was just using an inferior Suicune which had comparable bulk, Calm Mind and good offensive coverage.
 
My thread was locked, (http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84437)

It was about the item you guys are talking about now, except it was called "miracle of evolution", read on for an explanation (#7)

so here was my responce to my thread:
1. If i didn't know it was called evolution stone by serebii, how would I be able to look it up? (responce to its a random)
2. thank you kokoakiwi
3. still don't trust serebii (see shadows of almia events, it said it ended 2-3 years ago, i did them last week)
4.Yeah, forgot about rhydon, pikachu does kinda suck, just people seem to always use him (at least where I battle)
5.what should be done? It goes by two names so either we somehow merge these topics or keep them both separate, either way I'm good with it (talking about this thread and my thread, I was too late... I don't really mind...)
6. Does anyone else want a stat comparison between two pokemon? If so I can provide that
7.Ok then, thnx for telling me. It goes by "miracle of evolution" in bulbapedia and that is the probably the REAL english translation, but because it does'nt translate well (miracle of evolution doe'nt sound like a noun) serebii changed it to evolution stone (meaning they made it up), there, now there should be no more naming

sorry for plopping this on you, it got locked while i was typing this...
oh and also

8. according to bulbapedia (or at least not said otherwise, they are VERY specific) the whole 30% boost isn't true and it should still be 50%, of course who am I to say, so don't give me this and that about how I'm wrong and it is 30%
 
^You're welcome. But it's the truth, as far as I know both 'Shinka' and 'Kiseki' (this item's japanese name) only translate to Evolution and Miracle, respectively.
Also, every pokémon gets a 50% boost in both defenses as long as it can evolve. The best users are hands down Porygon2, Dusclops, Rhydon (in uu, I'm guessing), and Chansey.
 
Tangela. Don't you DARE forget Tangela.

I heard DW Chaobuu with an Evo Stone can tank a CB Hihi Flare Blitz for a 10HKO.
 
Eh, I haven't read the whole thread. Basically the first page and this one.
But all I've seen is "Porygon2, Chansey, Tangela, Dusclops, Gligar". Over and over again.

What about some slightly-inferior-but-still-good ones?

One such example is Lileep. Access to recovery, decent stats, ok typing, and an extra boost in Sandstorm.
 
What about Golbat? He can tank like a boss all night those Fighting and Grass moves. He can actually take hits pretty well as long as they arent SE, and stall with toxic and roost, or just whirlwind away.

I'm also thinking of a tankish Metang. It has the typing and the defense, but Im not sure what could it do in practice.
 
ryik7 said:
My thread was locked, (http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84437)

It was about the item you guys are talking about now, except it was called "miracle of evolution", read on for an explanation (#7)

so here was my responce to my thread:
1. If i didn't know it was called evolution stone by serebii, how would I be able to look it up? (responce to its a random)
2. thank you kokoakiwi
3. still don't trust serebii (see shadows of almia events, it said it ended 2-3 years ago, i did them last week)
4.Yeah, forgot about rhydon, pikachu does kinda suck, just people seem to always use him (at least where I battle)
5.what should be done? It goes by two names so either we somehow merge these topics or keep them both separate, either way I'm good with it (talking about this thread and my thread, I was too late... I don't really mind...)
6. Does anyone else want a stat comparison between two pokemon? If so I can provide that
7.Ok then, thnx for telling me. It goes by "miracle of evolution" in bulbapedia and that is the probably the REAL english translation, but because it does'nt translate well (miracle of evolution doe'nt sound like a noun) serebii changed it to evolution stone (meaning they made it up), there, now there should be no more naming

sorry for plopping this on you, it got locked while i was typing this...
oh and also

8. according to bulbapedia (or at least not said otherwise, they are VERY specific) the whole 30% boost isn't true and it should still be 50%, of course who am I to say, so don't give me this and that about how I'm wrong and it is 30%
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Can you do Hippo Jr. vs Hippowdon, & Sealeo vs Walrein?

Even without Leftovers, Ice Body + Aqua Ring = Hail Stall.

Super Fang, Aqua Ring, Protect, Substitute = no need for offense EVs/Attacks.
 
KokoaKiwi said:
What about Golbat? He can tank like a boss all night those Fighting and Grass moves. He can actually take hits pretty well as long as they arent SE, and stall with toxic and roost, or just whirlwind away.

I'm also thinking of a tankish Metang. It has the typing and the defense, but Im not sure what could it do in practice.
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SR weakness is unfortunate (look at Zapdos last Gen), but it actually is pretty decent. I've used 3 variants of Evo Stone Golbat and he's arguably the most versatile user of this item so far.

I agree with what you said about Metang. It looks great, but it can't attack due to no boosting moves combined with relatively low Atk. But defensively, what would it do? Spinblock? No. Hazards? No. Rapid Spin? No. Phaze? No. It doesn't even recovery or a decent status move. It could take the hits, but what would it do in the meantime?
 
Poor Rhyperior.

Last gen, he was overhyped.

Now this Gen, the Evolution stone makes Rhydon bulkier, even factoring Solid Rock...

So... aside from 10 attack more... Rhyperior is possibly one of the worst evolved pokemon now.

In fact, thinking about it, most of the pokemon that benifit the most from this item are those who got an Evolution in a later generation. Gligar, Dusclops, Porygon2, Chansey, Rhyhorn, Scyther.

Notice a pattern?
 
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