np: UU Stage 4 - I'm Dreaming of a White Christmas

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I'm thinking it's gonna be called np: UU Stage 5 - Let the Rain Fall Down.
Screw Rain, Sun is equally as destructive this gen in UU and people just don't see it.

If anything I see this round being more about handling hazards because with one of the best Rapid Spinners seemingly going there will be like a total of 2 viable spinners + Xatu in the whole of UU. Which basically means any hazards you get up are pretty much staying.

Very rarely will you even get the chance to setup more than 1 layer of spikes
2 at least, 1 is simply an exaggeration. You'd have to do something incredibly stupid for that to happen, most spike setters will have ways of coming in multiple times.

Also something needs to be done about Roserade, it's LO set rapes everything but steel types and fat special walls (which both get Sleep Powdered) and the Specially Defensive set is the no.1 culprit of the dominance of Spikes.
You need to start using Crobat, it is godly for cockblocking that thing, a great sweeper in its own right against fragile offense and slowing down stall to keep offense going.

Agreed. I don't see the appeal of Moxie when you're forced to lose out on some of your best moves and it's only really useful if you get a sweep going... And Sleep Immunity is better than extra hax, and makes people rage slightly less.
Because if you keep offensive pressure on your opponent and even score that single +1 boost. Honchkrow is pretty much able to brute force its way through its opponents and even weakened 'checks'. Honestly do you have any idea how ridiculously powerful Brave Bird is after a +1?

Despite Omastar's quirky list of weaknesses, it has surprising physical bulk (Hitmontop's Close Combat can't OHKO whereas Omastar can setup a smash and OHKO him back with Hydro Pump). 115 base defense is nothing to scoff at and its funny to see that virtually everybody underestimates his bulk and realise in shock horror that they 3HKO him while he smashes them back with +2 Surf/Hydro Pump/Ice Beam. The only counter I can think of is Scarf Jolteon who can come in on the smash and outrun + KO with Thunderbolt.
Whilst you may be playing it up a bit too much (though with good reason) since I can think of quite a few pretty good checks and counters. It really is a legitimate point why people don't use this thing more, but I'd say it in relation to Sand. That +1 s.def boost near guarantees the smash and provides sand teams with a vital special sweeper.
 

FlareBlitz

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Screw Rain, Sun is equally as destructive this gen in UU and people just don't see it.
I don't know if you're saying this because you ran into my team, but I'd agree with you entirely.

I got bored of killing things with rain and asked around on IRC for suggestions on another theme team. Someone suggested sun, and I decided to go with it. It's absolutely an incredibly destructive playstyle. The sheer power of Victini and Darmantian in the sun is silly, and Lilligant is probably the most underrated sweeper in the tier. The cool thing about sun compared to rain is that sun sweepers aren't useless outside the weather - scarf darma still wrecks things, and liligant can still sweep (although it will have difficulty getting past steel types and roserade). And as an added bonus you can troll all those people who put Sunny Day on their team to counter the rain surge.
 
Whilst you may be playing it up a bit too much (though with good reason) since I can think of quite a few pretty good checks and counters. It really is a legitimate point why people don't use this thing more, but I'd say it in relation to Sand. That +1 s.def boost near guarantees the smash and provides sand teams with a vital special sweeper.
Most of my Omastar experience comes from using him in rain, which makes him really deadly. After a smash, if rain is still up his speed becomes overkill(800+ wtf) and he can smash things with x2 boosted Hydro Pump/Surf. With hazards he makes a ridiculous sweeper. He's really underrated, considering when everyone thinks of rain they think of Kingdra, Ludicolo and Kabutops. Sand could also work with him, patching his bad Special Defense and allowing him to wreck more.
 
I don't know if you're saying this because you ran into my team, but I'd agree with you entirely.

I got bored of killing things with rain and asked around on IRC for suggestions on another theme team. Someone suggested sun, and I decided to go with it. It's absolutely an incredibly destructive playstyle. The sheer power of Victini and Darmantian in the sun is silly, and Lilligant is probably the most underrated sweeper in the tier. The cool thing about sun compared to rain is that sun sweepers aren't useless outside the weather - scarf darma still wrecks things, and liligant can still sweep (although it will have difficulty getting past steel types and roserade). And as an added bonus you can troll all those people who put Sunny Day on their team to counter the rain surge.
Coincidence since I've been toying around with a sun team myself but with a slightly different approach.

I actually played with less obvious choices and it told me its a untapped play style. Yes I could've gone with Darmanitarn and Victini the obvious abusers but by playing about I found there are other fun stuff you have to give a chance.

I'm gonna have to give a shout out to special defensive Intimidate Arcanine on the sole basis it cockblocks other Sun abusers like Darmanitarn and Victini and brings vital priority to the team and a good recovery move. Even with very little offensive investment STAB Flare Blitz under sun is no laughing matter.

Give Solar Charizard a chance and no I don't mean suicidal stuff like Speczard or LOZard but a plain old Lefties to counteract the HP drain. Yes it has a big 4x SR weakness but the sheer power of it is off the charts.

Unconvinced? You only have to see these calcs for yourself to see its a legitimate threat and one of the best wall breakers in the game. Lets just assume a plain 252 S.atk Modest Charizard with nothing but Lefties and Solar Power boost.

Air Slash vs CM Slowbro - 49.5% - 58.6% (Clean 2HKO even without Flinch hax)
Overheat vs CM Slowbro - 69% - 81.5%
-2 Overheat vs +1 S.Def CM Slowbro - 22.8% - 27.2% (Another easy 2HKO even if they decide to buff)

Air Slash vs Crocune - 39.4% - 46.3%
Overheat vs Crocune - 54.2% - 63.9%
Overheat vs +1 S.def Crocune - 36.4% - 42.8% (Even Suicune is nowhere near safe if it attempts to switch in and its good as dead if it dares attack)

I think there is still more untapped Sun potential and other mons even I've overlooked and it is a legitimate contender against Rain teams depending on how you build the team.
 
I've done some calcs with Omastar in rain:

252 +2 SpAtk Life Orb Omastar Surf vs 4 HP/252 SpDef Eviolite Chansey: 48,29% - 57,01% (2HKO with SR)
252 +2 SpAtk Life Orb Omastar Hydro Pump vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Snorlax: 98,47% - 115,84%
252 +2 SpAtk Life Orb Omastar Hydro Pump vs 252 HP/56 SpDef Milotic: 69,54% - 81,98%
252 +2 SpAtk Life Orb Omastar Hydro Pump vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Empoleon: 73,39% - 86,29%

If there are spikes on your field... You have a problem.
 
Air Slash vs CM Slowbro - 49.5% - 58.6% (Clean 2HKO
Overheat vs CM Slowbro - 69% - 81.5%
-2 Overheat vs +1 S.Def CM Slowbro - 22.8% - 27.2%
Air Slash vs Crocune - 39.4% - 46.3%
Overheat vs Crocune - 54.2% - 63.9%
Overheat vs +1 S.def Crocune - 36.4% - 42.8%
And this is the same calcs w/ Speczard.

Fire Blast vs. CM Slowbro - 67% - 79%
Fire Blast vs. CM +1 Slowbro - 44% - 53% (Guaranteed 2HKO)

Fire Blast vs. Crocune - 70% - 82%
Fire Blast vs. +1 Crocune - 46% - 54% (Guaranteed 2HKO over 3 turns.)
 
I've done some calcs with Omastar in rain:

252 +2 SpAtk Life Orb Omastar Surf vs 4 HP/252 SpDef Eviolite Chansey: 48,29% - 57,01% (2HKO with SR)
252 +2 SpAtk Life Orb Omastar Hydro Pump vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Snorlax: 98,47% - 115,84%
252 +2 SpAtk Life Orb Omastar Hydro Pump vs 252 HP/56 SpDef Milotic: 69,54% - 81,98%
252 +2 SpAtk Life Orb Omastar Hydro Pump vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Empoleon: 73,39% - 86,29%

If there are spikes on your field... You have a problem.
Damn, Omastar is actually pretty powerful and pretty underrated. That thing can blow teams apart with hazards. It also has nice physical bulk to help it against weak priority.
 
herp derp lets pretend rain is a new concept.
And it likely will be, considering how much influence this thread has. The same exact thing happened in Gen 4, a round or two after Abomasnow initially left, there was a rain boom. Then it would die down, and periodically come back. Hail came back for a little while, and then rain boomed again. It was almost a cycle.

And on rain itself: Based on having used it like two stages in a row now, I'd say it's solid- and very, very good sometimes. The hardest thing about it is keeping up the momentum and offensive presence while the rain is down or your starters have died off. It's very easy to be up 4-1, and then get swept by Scarf Hera/Flygon/Darmanitan (which is why losing priority Torndus rain is bad).

And lastly, Omastar is good, but is just straight up worse than Kabutops (Tangrowth and Empoleon are literally the only things stopping a +2 rain sweep.)
 

AccidentalGreed

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In terms of sweeping styles, I don't think Omastar should be compared to Kabutops at all, seeing as it can function more sufficiently in any weather (lol sun). Seeing as setting up and switching in takes a course of three turns, ASSUMING you actually set up without interruption, rain is pretty much unnecessary for Omastar (I mean, come on. A team has a Uxie and an Omastar and a...Kingdra. Unless that team's trying to play around with dual sceens + DD Kingdra, it pretty much screams Rain).
 
In terms of sweeping styles, I don't think Omastar should be compared to Kabutops at all, seeing as it can function more sufficiently in any weather (lol sun). Seeing as setting up and switching in takes a course of three turns, ASSUMING you actually set up without interruption, rain is pretty much unnecessary for Omastar (I mean, come on. A team has a Uxie and an Omastar and a...Kingdra. Unless that team's trying to play around with dual sceens + DD Kingdra, it pretty much screams Rain).
lolthis

I've been using Omastar for quite a while and frankly it's so fast that the extra speed by Swift Swim is almost lol. The only time I really need the extra speed is to outrun Scarf Flygon/Darmanitan/Victini. I've swept a lot outside of rain too.
 

DetroitLolcat

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Yeah, I've been trolling the ladder with Omastar in the #pokemon challenge and it's an utter monster. Honestly I like White Herb more than Life Orb because it makes you almost impossible to revenge kill after a Shell Rape. Pair it with Kabutops and gg GG
 
Good fucking riddance. I already got the paragraphs from a few senate members, and after my exams are over tomorrow I should be able to write up something quickly that hopefully doesn't overlap with what other people said.

PS: To everyone that thinks just Snow Cloak is broken, feel free to challenge SJCrew and see if you can overcome his Hail team. I guarantee you'll lose to other bullshit not called Snow Cloak.
Show me what this Snow Cloak-less hail team is. I'm deeply skeptical it can't be beaten.
 
lolthis

I've been using Omastar for quite a while and frankly it's so fast that the extra speed by Swift Swim is almost lol. The only time I really need the extra speed is to outrun Scarf Flygon/Darmanitan/Victini. I've swept a lot outside of rain too.
I am pretty sure that most omastar users use rain for the extra power, not speed.
 

destinyunknown

Banned deucer.
Weather doesn't stop... As I said in October, if auto-weather got banned, we would see Rain paradise. Probably it will be suspected in next round (or at least i hope it) since it's centralizes the metagame even more that hail did (stopping blizzspam or a gay stallrein is so easy comparing to take on kabutops, omastar and ludicolo with rain)
 
Weather doesn't stop... As I said in October, if auto-weather got banned, we would see Rain paradise. Probably it will be suspected in next round (or at least i hope it) since it's centralizes the metagame even more that hail did (stopping blizzspam or a gay stallrein is so easy comparing to take on kabutops, omastar and ludicolo with rain)
I disagree. First, rain hasn't a weather inducer like Abomasnow / Snover in hail. You should use RD, and this is likely to cause a 6 - 5 at the beginning of the game. Then you can changue the weather with Sunny Day or Hippopotas... Besides, Tornadus will be OU soon due to his usage, and this is a significant loss to rain.

On the other hand, there are some counters for Kabutops and company like Empoleon (he can run Aqua Jet for a nice rk), Poliwrath...
 
i expect Empoleon and Milotic usage to rise... they have the bulk to shrug off boosted water attacks while being able to take advantage of the rain to power up their own Scalds.
 

Limitless

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i expect Empoleon and Milotic usage to rise... they have the bulk to shrug off boosted water attacks while being able to take advantage of the rain to power up their own Scalds.
I don't think their usage will rise that much. Kingdra, one of the most used and powerful rain recipients, can pretty much manhandle both Empoleon and Milotic with ease. Of course they help in general, but to devote that much of a "counter" to rain when it can't even defeat the biggest threat of them all... not a recipe for success.
 

kokoloko

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How exactly does Kingdra manhandle Milotic and Empoleon? It doesn't come close to KOing either one and Milotic can burn/Toxic it/wear it down with Ice Beam/Dragon Tail it while Empoleon can wear it down with Ice Beam/Grass Knot.
 

Limitless

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How exactly does Kingdra manhandle Milotic and Empoleon? It doesn't come close to KOing either one and Milotic can burn/Toxic it/wear it down with Ice Beam/Dragon Tail it while Empoleon can wear it down with Ice Beam/Grass Knot.
First of all, Dragon Dance Kingdra will always beat Empoleon starting at +1. In ordinance to Milotic, you underestimate how much Milotic actually takes from Outrage. The only set that can possibly beat Kingdra would be a Haze set.
 

kokoloko

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If you're talking about Kingdra as a Rain Dance recipient, then idk why you'd be talking about Dragon Dance. That's just wasting turns of rain while you boost.
 
Show me what this Snow Cloak-less hail team is. I'm deeply skeptical it can't be beaten.
Also Empoleon is one of the only Pokemon in the game to resist Kingdra's dual STABs, how does it get manhandled by Kingdra? In fact I would suspect Empoleon manhandles Kingdra, not the other way around (and it certainly turned out that way in my experience).
 
Also Empoleon is one of the only Pokemon in the game to resist Kingdra's dual STABs, how does it get manhandled by Kingdra? In fact I would suspect Empoleon manhandles Kingdra, not the other way around (and it certainly turned out that way in my experience).

Actually its surprising that empoleon does beat kingdra..empoleon lacks recovery, kingdra can constantly keep hitting empoleon..empoleon gets at least 1 or 2 switch ins depending on the set..and the only thing it can really do is either scald burn(which is a high possibility, but not something that should be counted on), roar, or hit it with a not so hard ice beam..its a good check at least, but countering kingdra ppl are making it out to be really sounds good on paper, but not in practice
 
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