I think we can drop Flygon to D now. It's just outclassed by literally everything it could do.
Agree, flygon is outclassed in every role it could do, whether that being choice band (mence or hydra do it better) defog (mence does it better) amd just anout anything else except U-Turn, which is the only thing about it thats good.I think we can drop Flygon to D now. It's just outclassed by literally everything it could do.
tbh it really is. secondedI think we can drop Flygon to D now. It's just outclassed by literally everything it could do.
Alright I'm too tired to write out why but I should smack you for saying its a better defogger than batI don't think splitting stuff up like that is really useful at all (and tbf it's a way better defogger than crobat at least), but I agree that it needs to drop to D. Its niches are just way too small to be worth using almost ever.
This pretty much sums up my thoughts on Flygon. Flygon was a decent scout, but I barely see it on the UU ladder or No Scald ladder. I love Flygon as a pokemon, but she's just outclassed by any other poke in the Tier that can fit into her team role.Things Flygon can do -
Scarf - Outclassed by Mence, Hydreigon, and even Haxorus can do it better.
Band - Again, Mence and Haxorus can beat it out.
U-Turn - Beaten out by things like Meinshao, Mega Pidgeot, and even flippin' Crobat.
Tailwind - Suicune does a far better job and can actually survive a hit too.
Defog - There's better defoggers. Being immune to Spikes/Web helps, but it won't matter because Crobat still does that better.
It deserves D .
I'm not really feeling Gligar as an A- rank. Sure, it can defog away hazards but is is extremely useless and set up fodder for many mons in the tier like Suicune and M-Aero. Of course, them being S rank doesn't say much but Gligar basically loses to every CM User in the tier while not being able to do a great job as a physical wall as the physical hits it needs to switch-into, such as Entei's Sacred Fire, punish it. With Rain, Encore Whimsicott, CM Reuiniclus, Mix/Band Mence which is can just what, u-turn vs, all gaining popularity, Gligar is just not what is was back in XY UU. I'm saying we push it from A- to B+. It's just so exploitable and weak that I don't see it being classes as an A- threat. also agreeing with flygon.
This is probably gonna sound weird to everyone, but honestly I think Mega Aero is the weakest of the S Ranks and should drop to A+
Now I will agree that Mega Aero is a good poke but the meta has become more adept at handling it, ever since Raikou and Celebi left, waters have dominated the meta. There's also the fact that Aero struggles to beat any of the top physical walls such as Mega Aggron or Suicune even with hone claws. It has problems against offensive teams as well, Lucario commonly runs Bullet Punch which 2hkoes Aero (meaning that switching in is risky). It's not a reliable check to Entei either since it fears Sacred Fire Burns and Stone Edge. And like I said before, it struggles to deal significant damage to certain pokes of the tier. This creates problems as you could end up becoming set up fodder and finding yourself and a bad situation to pokes such as Swampert or Cobalion. Mega Aero may still be a good poke as it checks some key threats such as Shaymin and Mienshao but it's not S Rank material imo due to the aforementioned flaws and the current meta that it lives in.
Alright I'm too tired to write out why but I should smack you for saying its a better defogger than bat
Finished the edit so please bash me with your criticisms!Porygon 2 should be put up to B rank. Ice beam okoes sally and does a lot to mega aero. Discharge it really good with para spread. Has enough speed to come in and recover on another wall if damaged. Conversion set it actually very viable and dont worry Ill get the replays. There are some notable bad things like hera switch in and completley walled by florges but a para on florges means a turn of aromatheropy or it gets fully paralyzed. Conversion set can take ccs from banded hera (Ill get clacs... on my phone will edit later) and recover up. Trace is amazing get intimidate on salamence, stealing speed boost from sharpedo, and getting natural cure on the sleep powder roserade switch. Analyctic it ok but trace I feel is better for something as bulky as pory. With conversion, fighting type switch ins are not threats anymore. Pory can now wall infernape, lucario, machamp, and mega pidgeotto. Once I get the conversion replays up, it will be more clear.
<----------- If you want explanations with commentary
Replays: With Alts, KingUU's Mom and Sam's Creepy Uncle
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uunoscald-218364689
Porygon 2 takes a hit from a banded salamence with the help of trace. It then eleiminates Salamence with ice beam as it is locked into outrage. Later it plays around with aggron and para spreads for the win!
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uu-219138555
Porygon 2 kills a suicune after taking hits from MegaBee and stealing its adaptability. Suicune was my opponents only chance to win!
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uu-219140854
My opponent has a mono bug team -__- but it shows the sheer bulk of Porygon 2 without an eviolite!
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uu-219148974
High ranking player Aggron gets bent over by para spread and confusion hacks. Porygon 2 becomes a win condition after i miss a high jump kick!
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uu-219152653
Suicune is destroyed early game making my opponent near impossible to beat porygon!
This is probably gonna sound weird to everyone, but honestly I think Mega Aero is the weakest of the S Ranks and should drop to A+
Now I will agree that Mega Aero is a good poke but the meta has become more adept at handling it, ever since Raikou and Celebi left, waters have dominated the meta. There's also the fact that Aero struggles to beat any of the top physical walls such as Mega Aggron or Suicune even with hone claws. It has problems against offensive teams as well, Lucario commonly runs Bullet Punch which 2hkoes Aero (meaning that switching in is risky). It's not a reliable check to Entei either since it fears Sacred Fire Burns and Stone Edge. And like I said before, it struggles to deal significant damage to certain pokes of the tier. This creates problems as you could end up becoming set up fodder and finding yourself and a bad situation to pokes such as Swampert or Cobalion. Mega Aero may still be a good poke as it checks some key threats such as Shaymin and Mienshao but it's not S Rank material imo due to the aforementioned flaws and the current meta that it lives in.
Are you running Taunt?Bat just loses to like every user of rocks out there, so although it does get switchin opportunities to come in and remove hazards the majority of rockers can just come back in, force it out and get them up again. It loses to the most common one, nidoqueen, gets burned by emp, loses/gets burned by swamp, loses to aggron, tends to lose to forretress, it even loses to donphan... its main advantage is that it's speedy af so can defog in a pinch, but that's really it. At least flygon outspeeds and 1hkos the likes of emp and queen.
Idk, I've honestly just never been able to get results out of defog bat. Maybe it's because I tend to run teams on the bulkier side of the spectrum, but defog consistently under-performs for me. I might just be using it wrong lel.
Bat just loses to like every user of rocks out there, so although it does get switchin opportunities to come in and remove hazards the majority of rockers can just come back in, force it out and get them up again. It loses to the most common one, nidoqueen, gets burned by emp, loses/gets burned by swamp, loses to aggron, tends to lose to forretress, it even loses to donphan... its main advantage is that it's speedy af so can defog in a pinch, but that's really it. At least flygon outspeeds and 1hkos the likes of emp and queen.
Idk, I've honestly just never been able to get results out of defog bat. Maybe it's because I tend to run teams on the bulkier side of the spectrum, but defog consistently under-performs for me. I might just be using it wrong lel.
Every mon you stated that beats crobat also beats flygon. Forry, donphan, emp, swamp, and aggron all beat flygon as well. And nidoqueen is not a sure fire check to crobat. If queen is weakened to like half even it can just finish it off with a brave bird. and if you say emp and aggron lose to flygon I should slap you because there is no way in hell flygons weak ass is ohkoing emp with an eq let alone even denting aggron.
Emp can simply pop it with an ice beam which a lot have been running lately and aggron 1v1's it as well. Crobat is the better defogger as it has a BY FAR better typing than flygon and is one of the fastest mons in the tier as it can throw around u turns, gain momentum, and pop walls who try to rocks with taunt.
I don't think splitting stuff up like that is really useful at all
Are you running Taunt?
Since when is empoleon or nidoqueen beating flygon? It 1hkos and outspeeds both with any sort of boosting item (+ has a chance without and rocks). And if you actually bothered with reading comprehension you'd see I said flygon only beats those two over bat and I never suggested it beats the others- but that's two more than crobat beats at least. I mean Flygon could run fire blast I guess, but that seems shit lol.
Going back to my original post:
My point was that if you just consider the role of defog, flygon is better- but that's not useful as you need to consider the whole package a mon brings to the table, and flygon is significantly underwhelming. Those things you mentioned crobat doing are extraneous to its role as a defogger, besides taunt perhaps, but they significantly add to its overall viability. Yes its typing is brilliant, but every rocker takes advantage of it. Yes it can u-turn but if it's not threatening rockers then it's going to be taking a solid 25% every time it comes in.
Don't get me wrong, I agreed with Flygon to D and obviously crobat is like, 1000x better. I just think crobat is a poor defogger and it's better off taking up other roles.
Yeah, normally taunt or u-turn.
To be fair, Skankovich did add "with any sort of boosting item" in the second post. Even with a Life Orb Flygon can't OHKO physically defensive versions though:
252 Atk Life Orb Flygon Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Nidoqueen: 283-335 (73.8 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Flygon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Empoleon: 281-330 (75.5 - 88.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery[/quote
I see that but thats why I said if ur running a defogger set then you should be running bulk as most defoggers do. Life orb defog flygon sounds kinda bad.
Sorry, I was thinking about Mega Aero from a defensive point of view.Just stop it! Its fast and powerful and the meta still favors it even with bulky water pressence. Offensive flying is really good right now, plus Aero can come in on other common threats like crobat and mega pidgeot. If you are running aqua tail, ypu can wall a lot of common ground types such as hippo, gligar, and donny. Ive had more sweeps with this thing in the suspect test than I did serperior. Its easy for a team to be unprepared for something like mega aero. Just stop