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SPOILERS! Mysteries and Conspiracies of Pokemon

From a pure design stand point, the VS Seeker shouldn't have issues with multi-floor caves/dungeons. Each floor is its own separate map internally, and the game only rolls the dice on trainers on-screen anyway, I believe.

I think Pikachu315111 is probably closer with not wanting to make additional teams, but specifically in the context of FRLG specifically this is pretty relevant for the SS Anne, Rocket Hideout, the top of Pokemon Tower & Silph Co; all of these feature trainers that are only there until you complete the dungeon. Similarly all the gyms are in-doors and those are one & dones even if the trainers remain. Rather than tjust set them to reuse the same team or only disallow it in certain dungeons it probably made sense to just not allow it in any dungeon. Also would be prety weird for the Channelers in Pokemon Tower, I suppose.

Other gameplay consideration, I guess, is that you're more likely to go to a route for trainers than a dungeon due to ease of access.
 
Myth2048 said:
It might just be because other key items (like the bike) can only be used outdoors, so the VS seeker might just use that same code that says it can’t be used inside buildings and caves. They likely didn’t see any reason to change it for all of the above reasons, so they just left it as-is.
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Bikes can be used in caves, it just cant be used in buildings. VS Seeker likely didn't reuse any of that conditional code.
 
I always loved how Opelucid City in Black/Black 2 is a Dragon based settlement that's futuristic instead of being old-fashioned. This made me wonder if there's any futuristic Dragon Pokemon that could have been used by the gym trainers. Then I remembered that the Deino line was supposed to be robo-dragon tanks, making me wonder if they were designed that way to fit with Opelucid Black and to contrast the Axew line by being modern weaponry instead of ancient weaponry.
 
Myth2048 said:
Wait, WHAT?! Where did you first hear this, if you can remember.
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Can't say where IM first heard of it, but I have read about it on Bulbapedia. Here's from Hydreigon's page on Bulbapedia:
According to interviews with Ken Sugimori in Nintendo Dream, Hydreigon and its evolutionary family were originally intended to be cyborg dragons with aspects of tanks. The Pokémon were scrapped until late in development, when they were revived and remade to be based on Yamata no Orochi. The tank tread-like markings on Hydreigon's body are a remnant of this design.
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Myth2048 said:
Wait, WHAT?! Where did you first hear this, if you can remember.
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http://lavacutcontent.com/ken-sugimori-nintendo-dream/

It's mentioned here. Sugimori and other designers behind Gen 5's Pokemon talks about the design process behind several Pokemon and it's mentioned in the Deino line's section: he mentioned at first they were supposed to be war tanks, but then the idea didn't really work out that much so they put it to the side until orders came back to create a powerful Dragon family (as per the usual pseudo-legendary archetype which Hydreigon is), so they brought it back and made Hydreigon look more like the Orochi, especially with its wings sorta looking like heads themselves. It's also mentioned here that the purple tank track-like stripes on Zweilous and Hydreigon's bodies are leftover remnants of that original idea.
 
Yung Dramps said:
Gotta say, Im really sad none of these big design interviews ever happened after Gen 5. They were so open about their design process and old concepts, why they changed their mind about that and become so insular for Gen 6 and beyond is a mystery on its own
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Yeah it's such a shame. Gen 5 went deep on it too, I am pretty sure just about every NPC and pokemon line got a little design note associated with them. Well, in BW1 at least....BW2's new content didn't get that.

Maybe they went so hard on it in gen 5 because it was such a big break? Since it had the most pokemon and you didnt get access to anything old until post game.
 
ScraftyIsTheBest said:
http://lavacutcontent.com/ken-sugimori-nintendo-dream/

It's mentioned here. Sugimori and other designers behind Gen 5's Pokemon talks about the design process behind several Pokemon and it's mentioned in the Deino line's section: he mentioned at first they were supposed to be war tanks, but then the idea didn't really work out that much so they put it to the side until orders came back to create a powerful Dragon family (as per the usual pseudo-legendary archetype which Hydreigon is), so they brought it back and made Hydreigon look more like the Orochi, especially with its wings sorta looking like heads themselves. It's also mentioned here that the purple tank track-like stripes on Zweilous and Hydreigon's bodies are leftover remnants of that original idea.
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Hmm, with the English version randomly having German numbers in their name, I wonder if the translators knew this trivia. One of the most well known tanks are the German Panzer Tanks, and with them being Dragon-type I have to wonder if this is one big reference to the Sega cult classic game Panzer Dragoon. And if this sounds farfetched, considering Salamence is based on the cult manga character Devilman and what we learn about Pidove's family creation being a chain of puns, I don't think it's too farfetched.

Yung Dramps said:
They were so open about their design process and old concepts, why they changed their mind about that and become so insular for Gen 6 and beyond is a mystery on its own
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Maybe it has to do with them making the big 3D jump? Gen V was the last sprite-based game so probably felt comfortable with its development even if they were making these big changes like basing it on a non-Japanese region and making it a semi-reboot by introducing 150+ new Pokemon with no old ones until post game. But then came Gen VI and they had to relearn a whole new type of engine while also basing it on another non-Japanese region; plus the low sales of Gen V probably didn't help they went all big with a complex story but got "little" payoff. Can see a lot of little internal struggles and arguments with vision direction & what they're capable doing at the time.
 
Pikachu315111 said:
Hmm, with the English version randomly having German numbers in their name, I wonder if the translators knew this trivia. One of the most well known tanks are the German Panzer Tanks, and with them being Dragon-type I have to wonder if this is one big reference to the Sega cult classic game Panzer Dragoon. And if this sounds farfetched, considering Salamence is based on the cult manga character Devilman and what we learn about Pidove's family creation being a chain of puns, I don't think it's too farfetched.
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German in general is all over pop culture because german words sound cool. See also, liberal usage of christian terms.
Maybe it has to do with them making the big 3D jump? Gen V was the last sprite-based game so probably felt comfortable with its development even if they were making these big changes like basing it on a non-Japanese region and making it a semi-reboot by introducing 150+ new Pokemon with no old ones until post game. But then came Gen VI and they had to relearn a whole new type of engine while also basing it on another non-Japanese region; plus the low sales of Gen V probably didn't help they went all big with a complex story but got "little" payoff. Can see a lot of little internal struggles and arguments with vision direction & what they're capable doing at the time.
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I really doubt that any differences in development would cause them to not talk about things. They're pretty willing to talk about whatever when they do talk about things in gen 6-on interviews (Masuda had a little round table that talked a lot about the development of 3D models, masuda talked about France's influence, about honedge at the paris expo, hey remember that time an interview asked htem point blank about Madame influencing Sirfetch'd and they just answered it).

Honestly even despite my "maybe they just really wanted to underline all the pokemon like this" theory it could be as simple as "Nintendo Dream specifically asked for a cool set of design articles for gen 5 and then just didn't for future games" or "gamefreak did it originalyl on a whim and never thought twice about making it a recurring thing".
 
Rapti said:
O_O
No, when did that happen?
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https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...hield-junichi-masuda-shigeru-ohmori-interview
On Sirfetch'd in particular, it seems like it's based on an old evolution for Farfetch'd that was in the Gold and Silver demo that was uncovered - is it based on a cancelled design that never made it into a final game?

SO: [Laughs] It's a completely new design. Really when we're looking at the UK as a region, we thought this kind of evolution, with it holding its leek like a sword and having a kind of shield design, really fit with this new region we were designing. So yeah, it's a new design.
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They kind of brush past it but the fact they even let this question through, either asking for an edit before hand or just ignoring it, really surprised me. The leaks just feel like...a very....it's something you wouldn't actually acknowledge. Like a saving face kind of thing.

The interview does talk about sirfetch'd inspiration and such, by the way, but this question always stuck with me.
 
R_N said:
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...hield-junichi-masuda-shigeru-ohmori-interview

They kind of brush past it but the fact they even let this question through, either asking for an edit before hand or just ignoring it, really surprised me. The leaks just feel like...a very....it's something you wouldn't actually acknowledge. Like a saving face kind of thing.

The interview does talk about sirfetch'd inspiration and such, by the way, but this question always stuck with me.
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I have a feeling GF are stuck in a "damn if they do, damn if they don't" kind of scenario with the leaked beta Pokemon. There's nothing more that Nintendo and its extended developing teams love nothing more than surprising their customers.

Am I saying that the leaked beta potentially killed off any chance of these betas being made into Pokemon? No... because they were already dead on arrival. Think about, the leaked beta Pokemon everyone talks about are from Gen II with a few from Gen I (the Gen IV don't count as they were either placeholder designs or all the rejected gender differences). It's been over 20 years since then. If they haven't been made into Pokemon yet they aren't going to be now. However, that doesn't mean they can't take the concept of the beta (or at least parts of it) and redesign a new Pokemon around it. But that's where we come into the issue of GF wanting to neither confirm or deny the betas:
  • They confirm the betas: Confirming the betas mean they exist in GF's vault of Pokemon ideas, a vault they frequently come back to for Pokemon ideas. This will only increase the demand by people to make them into Pokemon, questions of whether existing Pokemon were redesigned from the betas, but more importantly of all: since they're no longer a secret they'll completely "kill off" these Pokemon, as in even concepts cannot be taken from them. They may even go out of their way to look through the betas and make a list of animals, objects, myths, & concepts that would be taboo since a beta design was based on that.

  • They deny the betas: Well first they'd have to deal with the wave of people calling BS on them, but let's focus of the ramifications. While technically it wouldn't make certain concepts "taboo" as with the above example, it wouldn't look very creative of them to be making a Pokemon possibly based off a design that a beta Pokemon they sworn off having. So either they'd have to go REALLY out of their way with the design to use the concept again or, more likely, make the above list of "taboo" designs: they won't say no outright... but likely will say no.
So, in this case the best answer is no answer. Read Ohmori's answer, he never says yes or no. He deflected the question by directly saying "Sirfetch'd is a new design" and then going into what they were thinking when they made Sirfetch'd.

Now, I do believe Sirfetch'd is a new design and doesn't really take any design cues from Madame aside being a Farfetch'd evo. Even still, had they restated the question into asking something like "Is it true you've been thinking about doing a Farfetch'd Evo ever since Gen 2?" I think they would still deflect even that obscure question with an answer like "we keep the door for every Pokemon getting an evo a possibility" or "we throw around a lot of ideas of evos for older Pokemon and Farfetch'd is a popular one but hasn't stuck till now"; obscure answers that still dances around Madame existing, and thus the leaked betas.
 
My point is more they could have easily just screened the question out. I imagine that happens a lot and we'd just never know.

I always think of, for example, smash bros. That's a game that's been taken apart for over a decade now, there's a lot of left overs we can gleam; not to mention numerous leaks. And yet, despite numerous interviews both focusing on the then-current game and also insights into past games it's very conspicuous that literally no one at any time has asked about anything found within.

But regardless, they could have requested eurogamer tweak the question to something like "Has a farfetch'd evolution been in the works before? Was this based on any of those concepts" or even lead it into a more general question about how many concepts they go through before landing on the current inspiration. We know what they really mean, they know what they really mean, but the weird social contract surrounding stuff like this holds firm and we all just nod and move on.

it's just interesting to me.
 
Siggu said:
While grinding a few levels in Black 2 I realized something that has weirded me out...

Why isn't Razor Wind a Flying-type move?
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Typing associations seemed to be a little wonky in the early gens. In Gen 1, all the wind-based moves (Gust, Whirlwind, Razor Wind) were Normal-type, and then Gen 2 turned only Gust into a Flying-type move (and also introduced another wind-based move in Aeroblast, which was Flying-type). Likewise, Sand Attack was also originally a Normal-type move, and then Gen 2 made it Ground-type while simultaneously introducing Sandstorm, a Rock-type move.
 
Siggu said:
Why isn't Razor Wind a Flying-type move? The name is not a mistranslation, the move descriptions have mentioned a whirlwind since at least Stadium... and yet it's a Normal-type move.
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In addition to what DrPumpkinz said, it could also have to do with the Move's basis.

Yes, it's Japanese name does also translate into "Razor Wind", but that's because it's named after a Yokai. The Kamaitachi is an evil Yokai which is a creature (usually depicted as a weasel, sometimes several of them) that creates whirlwinds to entrap or knock people down. While stunned, the creature would then make painless & bloodless cut marks all over the victim's body (for how it cuts there are legends that says it uses long nails and others where it has scythes/sickles attached to their feet; it's also explained in some legends how the cuts are painless & bloodless like the creature sucked the blood from the wound or one of the legends where it's a group one of them applies medicine to the cuts so the victim wouldn't notice the wounds until they got home).

So, what does this mean for the Pokemon Move? Well, it's not Flying-type because it's not the whirlwind that's cutting you, but rather the Pokemon likely released energy blades into the whirlwind and that's what cutting you while the whirlwind is just keeping the target in place (hence increased Critical Hit Ratio). Of course, thinking and reading about it, Dark-type would also make sense, especially since Sneasel is based on a Kamaitachi (and, no, the Sneasel family doesn't learn Razor Wind because why did you think GF would make sense?). Zangoose is also possibly based on a Kamaitachi (and at least it learns it).
 
Ice would work too, since Kamaitachi are also associated with wind chill so brutal, it feels like its cutting your skin, hence Sneasel's Dark/Ice type. My big mystery is with Weavile and why it has an Ancient Egyptian styled look, with its headdress, collar, and eye shadow. Lucario is based on an animal that lives in Egypt, why the ice yokai weasel gets in on it is beyond me.
 
Hey there, everyone. I’ve been having a lot of fun posting on and reading the forums today (I’ve been home alone for like eight hours now, I think I have a problem), and I was looking for more places to post when I stumbled upon this thread again. I’ve posted here before, but I’ve got a screenshot I want to show you guys and a theory along with it.

CAA9B4A3-D7C6-4967-8B9B-E9372F38D8A8.png

(Picture taken from the HGSS Serebii.net page)

Here we have a scene of the player in the Celadon City department store building’s top floor. HeartGold & SoulSilver have a feature where you can call the Gym Leaders on the PokéGear to schedule a rematch. It’s good stuff, with neat little scenes like this providing some neat backstory about the Gym Leaders. In this case, this is where you need to go to get Falkner’s PokéGear number. As you can see, he’s not alone.

When you start the conversation, Falkner and Janine are talking about whose father is the stronger Trainer. Pretty neat little conversation for these two to have. But something about this just doesn’t feel right to me, like... like there’s something else going on.

So what they’re telling me is that Falkner came all the way out to Celadon City’s department store for the sole purpose of having this conversation with Janine, when this could just have easily have been something to talk about over the phone? And it’s a weekly meet-up in the most obscure spot in the store? Right. Sure. Okay. Because I’m definitely gonna fall for that...

The mystery here is less about them and more so how this makes me extremely curious about the social lives of Gym Leaders in the Pokémon world. Is there a reason they have to be this discrete in public if it’s not their job? Who knows. This doesn’t just happen in Johto and Kanto either. I’ve always wondered about the limitations Gym Leaders have on social interaction... unless these two have something else going on, but that’s beside the point :)
 
bdt2002 said:
Hey there, everyone. I’ve been having a lot of fun posting on and reading the forums today (I’ve been home alone for like eight hours now, I think I have a problem), and I was looking for more places to post when I stumbled upon this thread again. I’ve posted here before, but I’ve got a screenshot I want to show you guys and a theory along with it.

View attachment 341444
(Picture taken from the HGSS Serebii.net page)

Here we have a scene of the player in the Celadon City department store building’s top floor. HeartGold & SoulSilver have a feature where you can call the Gym Leaders on the PokéGear to schedule a rematch. It’s good stuff, with neat little scenes like this providing some neat backstory about the Gym Leaders. In this case, this is where you need to go to get Falkner’s PokéGear number. As you can see, he’s not alone.

When you start the conversation, Falkner and Janine are talking about whose father is the stronger Trainer. Pretty neat little conversation for these two to have. But something about this just doesn’t feel right to me, like... like there’s something else going on.

So what they’re telling me is that Falkner came all the way out to Celadon City’s department store for the sole purpose of having this conversation with Janine, when this could just have easily have been something to talk about over the phone? And it’s a weekly meet-up in the most obscure spot in the store? Right. Sure. Okay. Because I’m definitely gonna fall for that...

The mystery here is less about them and more so how this makes me extremely curious about the social lives of Gym Leaders in the Pokémon world. Is there a reason they have to be this discrete in public if it’s not their job? Who knows. This doesn’t just happen in Johto and Kanto either. I’ve always wondered about the limitations Gym Leaders have on social interaction... unless these two have something else going on, but that’s beside the point :)
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I have a feeling the "meet-up spots" weren't meant to be an indication of "this is something the Gym Leader did every week" but rather it was sort of GF's way of having a set random encounter without making it a "permanent" one. They were supposed to feel happenstance, like you're going about the regions doing your own business when you run across the Gym Leader doing there, see what they're up to, and they give you their phone number and go to the Dojo to re-challenge you. Them being there every week was more meant to assure the player had a chance to encounter them eventually but without it feeling "planned".

So in this instance, for one reason or another Falkner went to Celadon's Department Store to do some shopping and Janine just also happened to be there... though I also wouldn't put it pass Janine to keep watch of her "rivals" movements; as soon as he's close-by time to remind him who's father is boss. While FalknerXJanine (it's called FatherlyShipping) is a thing (& I'm not sure how popular it is), we do walk in the middle of their argument so there's no ambiguity to what they were doing.
 
So, made a surprising discovery today. I used the Rotom Catalog for the first time (cause if I'm going to send Rotom to home might as well be a whole set of them) and, in addition to the expected electronics, at the very top was one I haven't seen before: Light Bulb. If you select Light Bulb on a Rotom possessing an electronic, it'll revert back to Normal Rotom, which means this entire time all Normal Rotoms aren't just random mass of electronic ectoplasm but rather possessed light bulbs!

Now, this is a bit surprising as, up till now, we thought the only way for Rotom to properly possess an electronic is if it has a motor. It's why it couldn't properly possess the television in the Old Chateau and Professor/Businesses have to make special equipment just so Rotom can properly possess them. Yet, a light bulb has no motor, yet Normal Rotom exists because it possesses one.

"Well, a light bulb is a pretty simple piece of technology, much more so than a television, so maybe in addition to electronic with motors it can possess simple technology"

Which I think is kind of big news. How simple does the tech have to be for Rotom to possess it; does it require any special parts? Can it possess a microchip? Batteries? Wires & cables? If it can possesses a light bulb, can it possess an object with a light bulb in it like a lamp or flashlight? The TV in the Old Chateau was a, for some reason, modern day flat screen TV, if it was an old-timey TV which used cathode-ray tubes would it be able to possess the TV then? And if so, what about other old electronics that used those tubes such as radios and early computers?
 
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