BH Balanced Hackmons

Hi so I have created a discord server for hosting unofficial BH tournaments (for gen 8, 7 and NatDex BH, maybe including other fun formats like Camo and Mono and UU). This should help in developing the metas, provide more challenging games for players, and help with the issue often brought up in discord on BH's lack of competitiveness. Feel free to share the link to any players interested!

My Sample Team Submissions:
Team Name: Twilight Moon
Description: Specs Adapt Lunala standard Balance.
How to use team: Choice Specs Lunala has no switch-ins which allows you to punish defensive cores easily. Ice Scales Dark-types are checked by Zacian who can spread status and trap unsuspecting targets and remove them. Toxapex and Melmetal form the main defensive core and is capable of checking most meta threats. Mandibuzz provides an useful Ground-immunity and checks Normalize mons and setup. Will-o-Wisp punishes Normalize and Zacian-C which could be troubling with Earthquake. Imposter rounds the team off with blanket-checking and scouting. Snorlax improofs Lunala, Zacian improofs Mandibuzz, others are self-improof. Dragon Dance over Octolock on Zacian and Volt Switch over U-turn on Mandibuzz are alternate options.
Weaknesses: Earthquake users such as Zacian-C and Darm are threatening with the only counterplay being Mandibuzz Wisp which is unreliable. Kyurem-Black is especially troubling. Running Will-o-Wisp on Melmetal or Levitate on Melmetal alleviates this issue to an extent, although losing Spectral leaves the team more vulnerable to setup while losing Flash Fire leaves the team very vulnerable to Darm. Ice Scales or Sand Tyranitar is also a problem as it eats up Lunala easily and Zacian isn't the hardest mon to check.
Effectiveness: This was the primary team I used early on to climb to around top 10? with 89 GXE and 1 loss. Overall pretty consistent in the meta.

Team Name: Thunderstorms
Description: Band ISword Zeraora standard Balance.
How to use team: This is my Secret Santa team. Choice Band Zeraora is incredibly punishing. Bolt Beak 2HKOs Eternatus which is speaking of its power. U-turn pivots, V-create smacks FC Melmetal, Toxic catches Shed, Pranksters, and Grounds. Kyurem-White provides a long term wincon which can be difficult to check and sets up rocks well. Eternatus and Melmetal form the defensive core with Etern soaking Fire attacks while Melm checking Zac-C and setup. Scald on Eternatus punishes Steel-type switch-ins to gradually chip them down. Silvally provides Ground-immunity, utility and pivoting, helping check Zama, esp PH variants. Imposter rounds the team off. Zeraora improofs Silvally, Eternatus improofs Zeraora, Kyurem improofs Eternatus, Kyurem+Melmetal are self-improof.
Weaknesses: This team is soft to special breakers such as Kyurem-White and Lunala, although Zeraora is capable of revenge-killing after some prior damage. Melmetal can be swapped to a more specially bulky Steel-type such as Solgaleo but it doesn't take Earthquakes or weaker V-creates well. Silvally isn't very bulky and cannot reliably handle Zamazenta sets (Bolt Beak), replacing it with Mandibuzz or Corviknight are both options. V-create Zacian-C is dangerous and requires accurate predictions.
Effectiveness: I had a fair record with this team including winning a roomtour. Zeraora is very easy to use effectively and achieves consistent results.

Team Name: Ban Shed
Description: Sand Shed with stacked offensive threats.
How to use team: Use the fast breakers Zama and Barra to hard pressure the opposing teams by wearing down checks and gaining free switches from forced recovers. Reshiram provides a soft Zacian-C check and an utility absorber and setup sweeper. Umbreon provides Magic Bounce, Knock Off, and Paralysis support. It also absorbs Photon and Moongeists. Rhydon is an electric immunity, sets sand to delete opposing non-Goggles Shed. Shedinja is completely broken, improofs both breakers, Resh, and Rhydon, and gives slow-pivoting. Umbreon prevents rocks from Imposter Shed, Resh improofs Umbreon, Barra is more effective than Shed at punishing Imposter Rhydon. Baneful Bunker over Spiky Shield on Shed, Teleport over U-turn on Umbreon, Icicle Crash over Earthquake on Barraskewda, and Double Iron Bash over Bolt Beak on Zamazenta are alternate options.
Weaknesses: Earthquake Zacian-C is difficult to check but struggles to find opportunities to come in safely. Levitate Eternatus is a difficult wall to break through but repeated attacks can wear it down. Opposing Goggles Shed is very difficult to break and requires a careful hazard game or a lucky Knock Off from Umbreon. No prankster is vulnerable to setup but every mon on the team has a way to punish setup.
Effectiveness: Have not tested this team very much but I have tested an alternate Sand Shed team and it was disgusting despite having some problems which shows the power of Shed teams.

Team Name: Electric Flames
Description: Dual physical breakers with Shed.
How to use team: Zeraora and Darm-GZ form a ridiculous wallbreaking core by pressuring common checks and cores easily. Free switches are very common thanks to forced recovers from even the bulkiest checks (Bolt Beak 3HKOs FC Melm, forcing recover). GDZ pressures Shed teams very well. Seismitoad checks Zacian-C and Bolt Beak users, the former a massive threat to Shed teams. Tyranitar provides a prankster and absorbs special Moldy moves and spreads Knock Offs. Zacian provides Bounce support and checks opposing PH users, including Zamazenta and Reshiram to an extent through typing, Spirit Break, and eventual Octolock. Shed improofs Zeraora, Seismitoad improofs Darm, Seismi and Zacian improof Tyranitar, Zacian prevents Imposter Shed rocks. Anchor is an option over Scald on Seismitoad and Volt Switch is an option over Knock Off on Tyranitar to ease improofing.
Weaknesses: Imposter is annoying as Seismitoad doesn't really have an improof and can only burn Imposter. Zacian can improof it by trapping but will likely get burned. Photon Zacian-C can break past Seismi through minor chip damage which is yikes. Sand or Hail teams are almost auto-losses but if they lack Imposter then it is workable with Darm being very good.
Effectiveness: I have a decent record with this team on ladder (got lucked once I think).

Both Shed teams abuse maybe borderline maybe not aspects of the game including Shed and the high-bp move breakers. This makes them very effective to use and not as complicated as regular shed teams are.

I think some replays for these teams can be found under the usernames Chessking345, Contradictory Proof, Free Spore in BH, and Free Spore. I'm not too sure on quality replays for third team.
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GL Volkner

burst into flames
is a Tiering Contributor
Not sure if you guys have discussed tiering post expansion but assuming that we do go with a Bolt Beak suspect after Shed I think we should def look at that again. I also think any elements that are added back in should be banned if it was on the previous banlist, we can always suspect them back in later. Ofc though that's just my two cents and tbh it's a little hard to assess how to go about this since this is the first time Pokemon has introduced DLC, and also the first time we aren't getting all the mons as soon as the game is out without any changes. Treating it like a new game in the same gen probably makes the most sense though like how we did w SM and USUM. It's not exactly an easy thing to handle though so hopefully some of these ideas are useful to get the ball rolling
Kyurem???? All those pressure that Kyurem-White brings to the meta is how strong a STAB 168 power boomer is. With Mold Breaker, its strongest Ice-type STAB is Ice Beam, which is nearly half the power of Ice-type boomer. The raw power of a Moldy Kyurem-White is just not appealing.

Ghost-types just aren't good in this meta. With most of the good ghosts gone this gen like Giratina and Aegislash (150 defenses), and the Knock Offs going around mainly due to Shed abusing Boots (it also knocks Eviolite from both Corsola and Dusclops), both don't do much in gen8 BH.

I know I lose the same amount, but the point is the percentage. Using your example, when you use 3 attacks without Dynamax, you lose 10x3 HP. 7 more attacks before you die. When you dynamax, each loses 5% (5HP) and you end up with 85HP which lets you attack 9 more times.

Behemoth Blade/Bash is just completely outclassed by Sunsteel Strike and Double Iron Bash. Dynamax Cannon is perfectly fine, Dynamax has both pros and cons that's why I want it discussed. If it doesn't have any weaknesses then it'd be gone long ago.
I think you may have misinterpreted my post.

To clarify:

1). I was not referring to Mold Breaker Kyurem-White. I was referring to Kyurem-White, in general, as a wall breaker, has to compete with Mold Breaker Reshiram as a wall breaker.

Say they both have Specs sets.
2). I think as long as Shedinja has a place in the meta, ghosts will have a place in it, to block Endeavor.

I would say that Dusclops is useful for stopping Fighting moves, and Doublade is one tough cookie with Flash Fire/Prim Sea and Eviolite to stop Physical threats.

Their niche is definitely smaller, but I usually see Dusclops, or Aegislash on teams, sometimes Doublade occasionally shows up.

3. I agree on the Anti-Dynamax moves.

4. I think for Dynamax, I see your point.
if you are at 30 HP out of 100, then you Dynamax to 200 HP, you are at 30% HP, not 15%, correct? Then according to you, you take 5% and if you attack 3 turns in a row, you won’t die on the 3rd turn.

I will have to go back and check, but nothing testing again won’t solve. As I haven’t been using Life Orb and Dynamax together for a few weeks now.

5). I am going to watch the Nintendo Direct! Yay!
  • Your name of the team: Eternecro
  • Description: Shell Smash Spam with two pivot scarf users.
  • Your team on pokepaste:
  • How to use your team: I know it's not my team and also a meme team of some kind but it works and I've taken a different path from the original with Lunala, so why not? Basically a hyper offense shell smash spam team using four Necrozma-Wings and two pivot scarf Eternatus (Eternatuses? Eternati? Whatever) with one main gimmick: Final Gambit + Scrappy. Open with one of those and kill the first Pokemon your opponent sends. If the opponent's first Pokemon is something with higher HP than Eternatus or you suspect it to be focus sash then switch to one of the necrozma. Pretty easy, just smash and sweep, spectral thief if they steal your stats or for imposters. As for the Necrozma, all of them are different in their own way.
  • Simple - Just shell smash and sweep. The main one you should probably switch into.
  • Magic Bounce - Use this one if your opponent is using a bulky mon with status moves or for Entrainment Dragapult.
  • Dazzling - Use this vs priority attackers like Kyurem-B, Darm-Galar-Z, etc.
  • Prankster - This one is unique, it has Destiny Bond. It is your last resort if your opponent has its own mon maxed with setup moves or imposters if your other Necrozma are dead. This is especially useful when you are against the same team with the Lunala instead of Eternatus. If they break your sash after you switch into this, prankster destiny bond will take their mon out.
  • What sets or playstyles your team is weak to: It is weak to anyone smart enough to counter it properly. And maybe something with Double Iron Bash. The team is pretty dumb itself but people don't expect it unless they have faced it before or know about it. Also you might lose to weird teams of 1000 Elo players with sets like Avalanche Snorlax, normal Corsola (non-Galar) with Octazooka, Muddy Water and Rain Dance.
  • How effective is your team: I mean on my code8rut3 account I went up from around 1200 to 1530 in two hours and then dropped back to around 1400 in the next three battles. Of course, if your opponent is a low ladder player using a New Meta™ set for an existing meta Pokemon then you might get bamboozled and lose. And after losing to them I dropped 40 points per match.
Team Name: Rust Is The Honor On A Dull Blade
Short Description: Balance around Zacian-C (who the team is named after) with a strong double steel defensive core.
How to use the team: The team is pretty simple, break stuff with Zacian and Lunala, send the steels into most of the shit or sometimes Tyranitar if you're wanting to throw in Magic Bounce. Zacian is great and needs no explanation, Volt Switch is its main form of wearing down non-ground FC switchins. Lunala is there to break shit Zacian can't (Looking at you Seismitoad), hits extremely hard and carries Volt Switch to wear down switchins over time. Fur Coat Melmetal is the epitome of physical switchins, this thing can even comfortably switch into many Zamazenta sets and non-ph bolt beak / fishious rend users, Anchor Shot + Rapid Spin can successfully out pp anything it manages to trap. Primordial Sea Ferrothorn is there mainly for Darm-GZ as the Melmetal can't take on Desoland/MoldBreaker versions and it's +Spdef and spectral to be able to check things like Reshiram, Kyurem-W, Eternatus and others that rely on Fire/Ice/Dragon/Ground coverage. Tyranitar is the Lunala/Ferro improof, normalize draga check and other common pranksters or hazard setters like Aegislash, Runerigus and Toxapex. Wobbuffet is your classic imposter for scouting and managing wincons, its moveset is pretty much up to you.
Weak match-ups: Lunala and Dawn-Wings with fighting coverage can really mess up this team, as none of the steels or ttar can do anything about it and I often have to rely on Zacian to switchin and pressure them out. Double or Triple Darm-GZ teams with multiple desolands can bypass primsea, in these mus hazards like rocks and webs are very important and after scouting items Zacian can outspeed everything non-scarfed. PH FSM users are also a pain in the ass, usually resorting to constantly spectral thieving their boosts away with ferrothorn pressure them off the field with Zacian.
Effectiveness: I started out Gen 8 BH a day before the suspect in hopes of getting a feel for the meta for the upcoming open and managed to craft something easy to use that is highly effective against the common choices of the playerbase and has tools to power through bad matchups. Perhaps may fall victim to niche strategies but that sombers every team out there.

Edit: Melmetal > Ferrothorn
Edit2: Double Iron Bash > Sunsteel Strike; Photon Geyser > Power Whip

I have the terrible habit of never saving replays so I'm sorry I can't provide any, I will try to keep this in mind and add a few in the next few days.
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Hi everyone! (And sorry for my pathetic English)

I'm not a gen8BH player but I search a lot of gen8BH sets and made a setpedia.

I know my setpedia isn't complete, I must forgot a lot of set with my lack of experience, and some sets seems to me to be garbage sets, but if the community made a true setpedia for this gen (like the past gen), I think it will help a lot of beginners.
Following on from DF Shock's preliminarySetpedia, I have compiled a list of speed tiers that may come in useful if you need to know if you can outspee something, especially after setup.

Speed tiers:

Note: All these numbers assume full evs in speed unless otherwise stated.
Speed: Name/nature/any boosts/any notes
1149: Dragapult/neutral/+4
1125: Zacian, Zamazenta / Neutral / +4
868: Zacian-Crowned/+Spe/+2
842: Dragapult/+Spe/+2
790: Zacian-Crowned/neutral/+2
788: Eternatus, Mewtwo/+Spe/+2
766: Dragapult/neutral/+2
738: Darmanitan-Galar-Zen / Neutral / +2
729: Tyranitar/+Spe/+4
718: Eternatus, Mewtwo/neutral/+2
663: Tyranitar/neutral/+4
631: Dragapult/+Spe/+1
591: Eternatus, Mewtwo/+Spe/+1
574: Dragapult/neutral/+1
562: Zacian, Zamazenta/neutral/+1
558: Reshiram, zekrom/neutral/+0/with Swift Swim, Sand Rush, Chlorophyll or Surge Surfer in appropriate weather/terrain
553: Darmanitan-Galar-Zen / Neutral / +1
538: Eternatus, Mewtwo/neutral/+1
522: Gyarados / neutral / +2
486: Tyranitar/+Spe/+2
486: Hydreigon/+Spe/+1
480: Aegislash-Blade/+Spe/+2
442: Tyranitar/neutral/+2
442: Hydreigon/neutral/+1
439: Solgaleo / Neutral / +1
438: Aegislash-Blade/neutral/+2
434: Zacian-Crowned/+Spe/+0
433: Kyurem-w/Neutral/+1
423: Zeraora / +spe / +0
421: Dragapult/+Spe/+0
412: Zacian, Zamazenta/+Spe/+0
408: Barrascuda/+Spe/+0
405: Darmanitan-Galar-Zen / +Spe / +0
395: Zacian-Crowned/neutral/+0
394: Eternatus, Mewtwo/+Spe/+0
390: Zamazenta-Crowned/+Spe/+0
385: Zeraora / neutral / +0
383: Marshadow / +Spe /+0
383: Dragapult/neutral/+0
375: Zacian, Zamazenta/neutral/+0
371: Barrascuda/Neutral / +0
369: Darmanitan-Galar-Zen / Neutral / +0
359: Eternatus, Mewtwo/neutral/+0
358: Golisopod / Neutral / +2
355: Zamazenta-Crowned/neutral/+0
324: Hydreigon/+Spe/+0
322: Solgaleo, Lunala/+Spe/+0
317: Silvally, Kyurem-B, Kyurem-W/+Spe/+0
306: Pikachu, Reshiram, Zekrom/+Spe/+0
295: Hydreigon/neutral/+0
293: Solgaleo, Lunala/neutral/+0
289: Silvally, Kyurem-B, Kyurem-W/neutral/+0
284: Chandelure/+Spe/+0
279: Pikachu, Reshiram, Zekrom/neutral/+0
270: Darmanitan-Galar-Zen / +Spe / -1 (V-Create speed drop)
261: Gyarados / neutral / +0
259: Chandelure/neutral/+0
246: Darmanitan-Galar-Zen / neutral / -1 (V-Create speed drop)
243: Tyranitar/+Spe/+0
240: Aegislash/+Spe/+0
229: Seismatoad / Neutral / +0
221: Tyranitar/neutral/+0
219: Aegislash, Jellicent, Primarina / neutral/+0
217: Type: Null/Neutral/+0
193: Hippowdon/neutral/+0
179: Golisopod, Shedinja/Neutral/+0
169: Toxapex, Doublade/neutral/+0
167: Melmetal/neutral/+0
159: Corsola-Galar, Snorlax/neutral/+0
149: Dusclops/neutral/+0
139: Ferrothorn/neutral/+0
76: Shedinja/-spe/+0/no Speed IVs

GL Volkner

burst into flames
is a Tiering Contributor

I will be flamed for this but whatev its just an opinion. Will be voting No Ban. While I agree that Shed is a nuisance this gen due to the flexibility of it's item slot potentially enabling it to circumvent some form of dealing with it (Boots with hazards, Ppads with anti-contact moves, and sometimes Goggles for weather residual damage), I still feel that Shed can't always perform it's role as a catch all check to many wallbreakers / defensive mons that people make it out to be. A lot of teams carry means to deal with Shed nowadays, and I feel this gen the importance of checking Shed is set to a higher importance due to the decreased power creep compared to previous gens. Whether it be through the moldy moves, Koff + Hazards, status, weather, etc, Shed will always face some form of potential counterplay one way or another despite the item it carries. This may fall in line with a level of over-centralization of course, but from what I can gather thus far, I feel Shed just offers another precaution in the teambuilding phase no different from other threats such as Zekrom, Zacian-C, Darmanitan-G, and other miscellaneous threats, one that requires even more risk to run given the nature of it's fragility. Albeit, having a great payoff if used carefully, I still feel Shed provides a competitive aspect to the tier that differs from the notion of it being a "braindead" addition to any team as one does need to build around it moreso then most "offensive wallbreakers / pivots" in the tier imo.

Now I will proceed to crawl in my hole as the rocks come flying my way lol.

edit: team i used cause i wanna be like the cool kids:
I kinda wanted to address this. No harm intended here so hopefully I don't get anyone mad off stuff I didn't say or mean.

I feel like judging a Pokemon like Shedinja based off how it can't do everything it can do all the time is flawed when the stuff that it can do is so vast in the first place. It's simultaneously a wall, a wallbreaker, a hazard setter, quality support, and a pretty safe switchin to anything you've scouted that it can wall. Sure, it's true that sometimes it can't do all this - but that's why it's not quickbanned straight up, because instead of being able to always fulfill all its roles at once, it's roles change every game. While it's true that the means of dealing with Shedinja have increased in viability, they have also decreased in availability and reliability, as has already been covered. Because of this, even though Shedinja checks are a lot easier to fit on teams, they also end up making the team worse off because stuff like Sand Stream is not only outclassed by Ice Scales, but also unreliable. Stuff like Rocky Helmet... Sure, it can work, but Pads is still good. Stuff like rocks doesnt do well because of boots. It's easy to say that you can fit all of these on a team in theory; But in practice, it's hard to ever guarantee that you'll be able to use all of these effectively because you can't control the Shedinja team your opponent uses. It's incredibly hard to make your checks work as often as they should because the concept of chip damage literally does not apply to Shedinja, it completely redefines one of the fundamental concepts in this game and makes it null and void, and centralizes this around itself and turns checking it into a game of Russian roulette.

The threats you mentioned are arguably unhealthy as well, but why even bring them up? What's the goal of this comparison? It probably hurts your argument more than it helps it, since as of late these threats have proven to be more and more difficult to answer.

It's true that Shedinja requires skill to play, but I don't feel that's a reason to keep it. If something is unhealthy regardless of how much skill it takes, it should be banned for the sake of maturing the metagame.

I'd just like to restate that no disrespect was meant with this post, so I'd appreciate it if anyone who viewed this didn't find rudeness where there is none, and look at it for what it is - a criticism to an argument and nothing more. Thanks.

Also all of my points may not make sense I wrote this when I was tired af lol sorry!!!!!!!!!
I love this list! Excadrill, Kyurem-W, etc.! I appreciate also that you took the effort to alphabetize them all.

This took a real commitment and I appreciate your work.

I think if the Setpedia is created, this will be an actual Rough Draft for them to base it on.

Just as much I appreciate the efforts made by the actual creators of the sets, I also appreciate the direction this thread is going. In an effort to preserve that, I thought of some additional resources we can use!

I propose a new listing of important Replays, posted in the OP:


1. :Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: **Balanced- A mix of Offense, Defense, and Support to cover their own team’s usual set of weaknesses often associated with 1 Playstyle, ensuring their bases are covered at the cost of specialization:

A. Sample Team:

B. Sample Replay:

C. Sample Sets:

2. :Zamazenta-Crowned: **Defensive - A core of 2-4 durable Pokemon covering each other’s weaknesses, with support from the rest of the team to outlast common Offensive threats, in order to gradually wear down and accumulate residual damage through hazards, status, etc.

A. Sample Team:

B. Sample Replay:

C. Sample Sets:

3. :Zacian-Crowned: **Offensive - Designed around
supporting multiple Wallbreakers, and/or Sweepers in order to pressure and overwhelm teams.

A. Sample Team:

B. Sample Replay:

C. Sample Sets:

4. VR of Pokemon of per Category

I feel VR by Playstyle is important, so we establish what goes where, otherwise we may rank a Jack-Of-All-Trades fairly high, due to their versatility, but they might be only average in each category, and thus, not an ideal choice worthy of immediate consideration. *Think of Arceus last generation.

Also, since the metagame is fairly small, especially compared to prior generations, it would be easier to do so, especially before any more are added (I.e. Jan 2020 Nintendo Direct).
I also think we need a section for key replays, such as the final round(s) of the BH Open, and other key tournaments so we can show the high-level of play to newer players, and possibly a little descriptive blurb depicting why a player likely made a key move that was pivotal during the match, such as a major prediction that factored into a win, or an obvious turn when someone was pressured into making a mistake.

TLDR: I think adding a section of replays would benefit everyone, to showcase what makes a team work as a unit, how a team exemplifies the build of a unique Playstyle, and where a moveset belongs within a team.

It would also be useful so people who are viewing this thread can see a sort of time capsule of where we are, as the metagame evolves.

Think of how important Ghost-types are before Shedinja’s Suspect. Then if Shedinja gets banned, imagine how less common they will become on teams. With this in mind, we can see how a replay from 1 era can exemplify what caused certain builds of teams (Pokemon, types, certain popular sets at the time), to become highly used or no longer used often.

It doesn’t have to match the exact template above, but I feel that organizing teams and the VR by Playstyle makes it easier to visualize and understand why something is good, as you highlight the environment in which it thrives, rather than just a listing of Pokemon / Sample Teams in general.

**We already plan to have sample teams, and a Setpedia, this only suggests a new organization based on Team Playstyles and an additional section for high-level Replays.
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Short PSA: Sample team submissions are (officially) closed now, but if you post in the next couple of hours I'll probably add it to the list for consideration.

Thanks everyone for the effort you put into making teams, you guys are op :]
Also make sure you sign up for the BH open if you want to get involved in it!
DISCLAIMER: These sets are still in testing and the first one is walled by FC Melmetal. Also, they are likely outclassed by other offensive sets. Nonetheless, I wanted to share an idea with you all.

When the ability Mimicry was introduced this generation, I thought it might be interesting to play with but didn't really know how it could be relevant since there were better offensive abilities available like Gorilla Tactics and Intrepid Sword. Sword is still around, but I was looking at the rise in usage of Zeraora thanks to its fast Bolt Beak and started getting some strange ideas.

Zeraora is really good right now, but its power coming from base 112 Attack got me wondering if I could use Mimicry to create a stronger Zeraora. Looking at the mons who are also fast but stronger than Zeraora left me with options like Dragapult, Zacian, Zamazenta, Barraskewda, and Darm-GZ. Of these, I chose while considering base offensive typing and bulk, which gave me Zamazenta and Darm-GZ. The sets are shown below.


Zamazenta @ Choice Band / Life Orb
Ability: Mimicry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Bolt Beak
- Earthquake / U-turn / Shift Gear
- Photon Geyser


Darmanitan-Galar-Zen @ Choice Band / Heavy Duty Boots
Ability: Mimicry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Icicle Crash / U-turn / Shift Gear
- Bolt Beak
- Photon Geyser / Shift Gear

The movesets are chosen to take advantage of as many situations as possible. Outside of terrain, each mon has their base STAB moves, most of which are high powered and spammable. Bolt Beak is there to have a strong STAB move under Electric Terrain while Photon Geyser handles things like Shedinja or Volt Absorb Toxapex and becomes STAB under Psychic Terrain. Choice Band is used for immediate power, but other items can be used if you prefer a setup variant.

Unfortunately the boost from terrains was nerfed, but with Electric Terrain support, Zamazenta hits almost as hard and Darm-GZ hits harder than Choice Band Intrepid Sword Zeraora with Bolt Beak. They trade a little speed, meaning neither outspeed Dragapult and Darm-GZ is slower than Zacian, Zamazenta, and Barraskewa.

I've ran these alongside Electric Surge Zekrom and Choice Specs Lunala, which can Dynamax to give Psychic Terrain support. Wish support helps them last longer and is great in general this generation. The Darm-GZ is interesting to me since it can totally flip the matchup against Primordial Sea Melmetal, which normally checks it well. Unfortunately I don't have any good replays to share at the moment, but will edit them in later (if this idea pans out lol).
+1 252 Atk Choice Band Zeraora Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Melmetal: 313-370 (66 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Melmetal in Electric Terrain: 303-357 (63.9 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Darmanitan-Galar-Zen Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Melmetal in Electric Terrain: 354-417 (74.6 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Seismitoad: 127-151 (30.6 - 36.4%) -- 56.1% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta (STAB) Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad in Psychic Terrain: 276-325 (66.6 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Edit: This replay shows Darm-GZ being checked by FF Melmetal while Ice/Fire-type, but beating it later while Electric-Type.
This shows an interesting aspect of the Mimicry/Imposter interaction. Without terrain, Imposters of Mimicry mons revert to the Imposter's base typing, not the opposing mon's typing.
Darm-GZ making use of Psychic terrain to OHKO Eternatus
Darm-GZ pressuring resists and FC Melmetal with STAB Bolt Beak
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time for a long rambling post about nothing in particular now that I’m already out of bh open (rigged). Also I don’t have replays for any of this because I never save them

first I want to talk about pangoro.
:pangoro: skadoosh (Pangoro) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Throat Chop
- Close Combat
- Spiky Shield
- Octolock

you might be saying “just use Zamazenta lmao” and you are correct. Pangoro’s niche is being a dark type, which is “important” to check Lunala locked into photon or moongeist, and making it so ghosts don’t switch into your octolock. Works because there are like 0 defensive fairies outside of regular zacian. PH is actually good in order for you to not get chipped down against defense over a long game. Throat chop > knock for consistent damage when opponent is trapped.

:zacian: Zacian @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off
- U-turn

next we got what I use to improof skadoosh, utility pixilate zacian. Nobody is running dazzling so espeed is great for revenging things that have been worn down, assuming they don’t Dmax. Against melm and other walls knock and get the fuck out of there cause u ain’t killing them. rapid spin is stronger than you would think

:zacian-crowned: Zacian-Crowned @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Intrepid Sword
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Double Iron Bash
- Blue Flare
- Volt Switch
- Stealth Rock

+SpA zac-c is actually sick cause it 2HKOs melm after any amount of chip. You can still bluff +Spe to force things out that you would kill, and you still outspeed max speed etern. against seismi set up rocks and leave. You can use sunsteel dib if you’re a coward and don’t want to coin flip for flinches.

:oranguru: Oranguru @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Volt Switch
- Rapid Spin
- Photon Geyser
- Knock Off

the only true Lunala/necrozma-d-w switchin. That’s it, that’s all it does. Regenvest so you can consistently switch in over the course of a match. Also it monkey

:necrozma-dawn-wings: Necrozma-Dawn-Wings @ Flame Orb
Ability: Quick Feet
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Photon Geyser
- Focus Blast
- Nasty Plot

self-imposterproof sweeper that sucks cause it’s still slower than zacian-c and pult when burned. Dicks on balance once those are removed though.

now my thoughts on what should be banned or not

:shedinja: - already gone into this, ban this bih

dmax - while I like some of the strategy that comes with it, it makes revenge killing really hard and I think might be unhealthy. Need more time to think on it.

:dracozolt: :victini: :Dracovish: beak/rend/vcreate - the 170+ BP moves are to strong I think, and the reasons have already been discussed here so I won’t go into it. However, I don’t think they should be tiered the same, my idea is for one suspect with 3 seperate votes for all the moves.

:grapploct: octolock - as much as I like this move and octopi i think it is probably unhealthy for the metagame. Being able to trap and remove pretty much anything in one slot without very specific counter play is probably too good. The main set is normapult w/ entrain/taunt/octo/multi-attack, which needs to be played around literally perfectly if you dont have like bounce ttar, and sometimes you still lose anyway. ban this move.

sorry for the long and rambling post, that is all

e: forgot to mention dib ban it it’s uncompetitive
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According to the Gen 8 Pure Hackmons thread:
24 days into January. I got some news

So as it turns out, there's been a sudden change in the metagame.

The statement above is outdated. Zacian and Zamazenta in their crowned formes have recently been proven usable without any item or ability restrictions! Cheers, we can do more with these formes!
The return of Zacian-C spam? 2 Zamazenta-Cs on half of teams? I've prodded the research thread for confirmation simply because it'll completely shake up BH all over again.
Zacian-C has been freed, and I am strongly in favor of a quickban of it. Some reasons for that below:

1. Limited Zacian-c is already a huge threat. The standard four attacks set runs the following: Double Iron Bash / Sunsteel Strike, Earthquake / Bolt Beak, V-Create, and U-Turn / Volt Switch. Surprise sets can opt for Shell Smash instead of a pivot move, which can surprise and defeat something like FC Melmetal after a little chip with V-Create (it does about 90%). Power Whip can also be ran to OHKO Seismatoad, but that's all it hits. Double Iron Bash has the extra feature of a 51% flinch chance, which can screw over otherwise reliable checks, but this is actually only a minor problem since it only has 8 PP that can be used.

Switchins include: FC Seismatoad (watch for Power Whip), FC Melmetal, Primordial Sea Corvuknight (loses to Bolt Beak), Primordial Sea Ferrothorn (can switch in but must run a Protect move or it risks being flinched down by Double Iron Bash), FC Eternatus (2hkoed by Sunsteel Strike). Checks need to be able outspeed Zacian-C (Choice Scarf users must have at least 90 base Speed to do this), and hit it extremely hard thanks to its excellent defensive stats and typing. Shell Smash sets can turn these checks on their heads though.

Now with a free item and ability, this mon becomes impossible to deal with. A Banded Intrepid Sword set will 2hKO Seismatoad on the switch with Sunsteel Strike (51-62%), and the huge choice of moves means that Improofing it isn't that difficult since you actually know what set it's running whereas opponents don't know, and have to take a risky switchin with Imposter. If a Band set isn't to your liking, try a Shell Smash set. You can run all sorts of abilities, from Simple to Technician to Serene Grace. Plenty of items are also useable, including Life Orb (which invalidates a lot of those switchins all on its own), White Herb, Focus Sash, or Safety Goggles + Spore. I know because I tried and played against these variations back when it was legal, and it was pretty ridiculous. Playing against it was pretty much a guessing game. There have not been any significant meta shifts to make me believe that it will be any different now.

Another problem that this will accentuate is the Species Spam issue. Freed Zacian-C is undoubtedly the best mon in the metagame, and there would be no reason not to run multiple of them on your team.

TLDR: Quick ban this please before the next round of BH Open starts. This needs to happen and soon!
Tagging off of Skylake’s post I’d like to give my thoughts on the freed doggos.

Quickban. ASAP. A lot of these points have already been outlined so I won’t harp on them for too long but Zacian is absolutely broken with a free item slot. Even not freed, Zacian is at least an A+ pokemon in my eyes, and you could probably make an argument that it is the best mon in the meta. Now open up that item slot. Even with Melmetal and all of the Fur Coat mons right now, this meta simply doesn’t have the tools to deal with Zacian and keeping it freed would warp the meta entirely around its use.

Zamazenta has gotten a lot of shit for being terrible compared to Zacian but here I think it will be viable without being overbearing. The biggest thing I see in Zamazenta is a steel type with better special bulk. Considering our best specially defensive steels right now are Solgaleo and Escavalier, that alone should give Zamazenta good reason to be used.

However, its other attributes help it out even more. Its attack stat of 130 is definitely not bad, and could lead to some offensive sets; however, regular Zamazenta might be better at that role due to it surpassing the coveted 130 speed tier and Darm. That fighting typing is definitely very nice as well, considering it can dish out good damage with STAB Body Press even without Cotton Guard shenanigans. Overall, Melmetal should definitely remain as the best steel but Zamazenta definitely should have a niche.
I know everyone is talking about Zacian now but I'd also like to request a quickban for Double Iron Bash. Game Freak was smoking Mario mushrooms when making the move. It is uncompetitive and doesn't even need a suspect test.
It's also boosted by Tough Claws for some reason, despite Bulbapedia not listing it as being affected by the ability.
Yeah please quick ban Zacian-C. This thing is like last gen's Primal Groudon except even better. I already thought Rusted Sword Zacian was one of the best Pokemon there is in the meta. It doesn't take someone skilled at BH to know that Zacian-C is completely batshit overpowered. I'll restate: It has the highest Attack stat tied with Kyurem-Black, and the second highest Speed, being only outsped by Ninjask (and Scarf users like DGZ...). It even has the luxury of having good bulk and being able to run recovery viably in its 4th moveslot.

I definitely think Zamazenta-C is a positive addition to the meta and should result in some interesting sets.

Double Iron Bash is uncompetitive, but its low PP and weakness to Rocky Helmet make me think it's probably not also quick ban worthy unlike Zacian-C. I'd agree with it if that's what others think, though.

Darmanitan-Galar-Zen is absolutely fucking insane. Even better than I originally thought, and I got suspect reqs with it. I'm not quite sure if it's banworthy, but it's probably close.

I don't agree with a V-create ban like some others have stated. There are tools to deal with it, and I don't think Mold Breaker will have as much incentive to be run with Shedinja banned.

Dragapult is still a shitmon and fortunately people are starting to catch up to that. I've seen it increasingly less as of lately.

Ice Scales is pretty great but I've been seeing so little use from Regenerator. I wonder if Regenvest or Regenband sets are still any good.

Solgaleo and Necrozma-DM are both disappointments, I've been trying them a lot and neither of them have really lived up to expectation unlike Melmetal. Even in the Special Defense department, I think Solgaleo will be replaced by Zamazenta-C.

Offensive Eternatus is really good. I've admittedly underestimated how well it can do myself. This mon is really unpredictable since it can run both offensive and defensive sets viably.

Tyranitar is disappointing and bordering on shitmon status for me. Defensive Rock-type in a meta with a ton of Steel-types, and Ground-types and Ground-type coverage to break said Steel-types, I thought Tyranitar would originally be pretty solid, but it's not very good. I also don't think there's any good Dark-type Pokemon in this meta. I don't exactly like Mandibuzz either. I know Lunala is a frightening mon to take on with Specs Moongeist, but like... I just don't see Tyranitar being good at anything but walling Lunala. That assumes Lunala isn't also running Fighting-type coverage then well Tyranitar is out of luck.

I've seen a lot of use from Primordial Sea compared to Flash Fire. I've grown to like Flash Fire more because it can block Will-o-Wisp (while I can burn Pokemon under Primsea easily). Also a lot of players will use Fire-type moves not expecting Flash Fire, but that's admittedly kinda lowish ladder stuff. I know Primordial Sea blocks Mold Breaker Fire-types, but I haven't seen very many of them as of lately.

I think fish beak are both overpowered. It's too difficult to wall both strong Electric-type and Water-type moves. Let alone the mechanics being too difficult to handle.

Golisopod is a cool PH/pivot mon. It's got deceptively good physical Defense. It can stay alive for a good while while offering a lot of utility. It's a slow pivot, can set or remove hazards, burns and deals okay damage with Scald, and has just the right resists to allow it to stall out certain Pokemon.

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