Shelgon's got really high defense but not as high as alot of other things, and he can't really do much with it.
-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Eviolite
- Thread starter Garganator
- Start date
Magneton should be 241/156/433/339/264/176.
Magneton @ 252 Sp. EVs, 252 Def EVs
Stats (Without Pre-Stone): 241/156/289/336/179/179
Stats (Including Pre-Stone): 241/156/433.5/336/268.5/179
Compared to...
Magnezone @ 252 Sp. EVs, 252 Def EVs
Stats: 281/176/329/359/216/156
I'm no good with running calculations, but Magneton trades 40 HP, 20 Attack, and 23 Sp. Attack for a whopping 104.5 Defense and 42.5 Sp. Defense. Perhaps Magneton will see increased use over his evolved bretheren.
What we really have is Magneton trading 40 HP, 20 Attack, and 20 Special Attack for 104 Defense, 48 Special Defense, and 20 Speed. Of course, it's never actually going to be that exactly since you're just giving an example with neutral natures and 252/252 EVs, but yeah, basically it's a question of whether better defenses and Speed outweigh the versatility that comes with being able to use Choice Scarf, Light Clay, or any other item. It might be worth mentioning that 70 Speed ties with Skarmory, Metagross, and Kirikizan and outpaces Scizor.
Edit:
Slowking evolves from Slowpoke, not Slowbro, so no.
No. Slowbro is a final evolution, as Slowking does not evolve from a Slowbro, but a Slowpoke.
Slowking is worse than slowbro actually. People are able to pull of the CM set even now.
Rhydon misses out massively by not having Solid Rock.
Just to note, it's just called "Evolution Stone".
http://www.serebii.net/itemdex/evolutionstone.shtml
http://www.serebii.net/itemdex/evolutionstone.shtml
It is a 1.5x boost for both defense stats.
All right, thanks for confirming.
its called "miracle of Evolution" not Evolution Stone.
Lots of Pokemon are put to an "abrupt stop" without their hold item, not just NFEs.
Sure, some aren't, but not all the NFEs are either. Rhydon has base 130 Attack, Magneton ahs base 125 Special Attack, Chansey is the 2nd best special wall in the game, Scyther has decenty physical sweeping stats, Porygon2 is Porygon2...
Rhyperior, even with Solid Rock, wasn't exactly walling super-effective special moves.
Who uses Knock Off, anyway?
Keep in mind that with Psycho Shock and Sacred Sword users running amok, special walls need to maintain a respectable defense as well as an impenetrable special defense.
Also, thanks to Softboiled, Chansey doesn't particularly miss Leftovers as much as you'd think.
Tentacruel and Tangrowth often do and both a decently popular in OU and UU respectively. I wouldn't mind having a Knock Off user on my team in either tier.
It can still get worn down by entry hazards, weather, status, and multiple switches. Leftovers is a respectable amount of HP regained over a number of turns with no required action from you, don't knock it too much. Of course Chancey is good too but I don't see her as straight up better.
If I was running a defensive team with anything out of Gliscor, Tentacruel, Donphan, Shubarugo, Machamp/Machoke, or Tangela/Tangrowth (especially if Dream World variants are released), I'd use Knock Off pretty much every time since defensive teams need to be able to stop Choice Band and Choice Specs enemies from running wild.
On the offensive side, Kojondo could be a great Knock Off user and Chillachino could be a decent one--they're both frail, but Kojondo has Regeneration and they both have the Speed and movepool to force switches. I think they'd usually rather be doing other things, but it's not a bad move on them at all. If nothing else, it could help them get rid of opposing Choice Scarf switch-ins so that their nice Speed stats mean more.
But other than them and Hariyama, the pool of Knock Off users looks pretty barren, so any team using a Porygon2, Dusclops, etc. shouldn't have too much trouble building in countermeasures against Knock Off users. For example, Tangrowth, Donphan, and Gliscor all can't stay in to Knock Off against Porygon2 with Ice Beam.
On the offensive side, Kojondo could be a great Knock Off user and Chillachino could be a decent one--they're both frail, but Kojondo has Regeneration and they both have the Speed and movepool to force switches. I think they'd usually rather be doing other things, but it's not a bad move on them at all. If nothing else, it could help them get rid of opposing Choice Scarf switch-ins so that their nice Speed stats mean more.
But other than them and Hariyama, the pool of Knock Off users looks pretty barren, so any team using a Porygon2, Dusclops, etc. shouldn't have too much trouble building in countermeasures against Knock Off users. For example, Tangrowth, Donphan, and Gliscor all can't stay in to Knock Off against Porygon2 with Ice Beam.
Am I the only one here that realizes all you are mostly only talking about Pokemon that were once fully-evolved at some point in the series?
What Pokemon would Benifit from this that have always been unevolved, outside of the ones that already had niches over their evolutions pre-5th Gen?
What Pokemon would Benifit from this that have always been unevolved, outside of the ones that already had niches over their evolutions pre-5th Gen?
*runs search*
K, here's a list of pokemon that receive ANY SORT of benefit, even if they wouldn't be viable in the current UU metagame:
Charmeleon - DD + Solar Power - 4x SR weak = viable NU/UU mixed sweep
Gloom
Graveler
Machoke
Kadabra
Haunter
Onix - well, it was once a standalone but it was pathetic even in gen I, and this item goes almost too well with Breakable Armor and base 70 speed
Koffing
Eevee - Curse set, BP, STAB adaptability QA...
Dragonair
Flaaffy - Cotton Guard set, see Ampharos thread
Murkrow - Mischievous Heart abuse. Murkrow only bad stats are it's HP + defenses.
Pineco - Forry's defenses are better, but Pineco's typing stands out
Pupitar - Horrid typing, but can DD
Combusken - Less fear of priority, but slower and less damaging
Shroomish - Pure Grass, Quick Feet, Spore
Vigoroth
Wynaut
Sealeo
Shelgon
Metang
Grotle - Pure Grass, beyond sexy defenses, good attack for UU
Monferno - much better defenses than Ape, could likely wallbreak in UU and withstand an Aqua Jet from anything but Azumarill & Feraligatr
Prinplup - Better defenses than Empoleon, but losing steel type hurts
Shieldon
Bronzor
Gabite
Munchlax
Hippopotas
Janobii
Chaobuu
Gantoru
Dotekkotsu
Purotooga
Gigear - Gear Change = Win
Shibibiiru
Jihedoo - Actually, an awesome pokemon. With Hustle and Evostone, it apparently hits and tanks better than Sazan. Low speed and lack of item are the downfalls, as well as low Sp. Atk stat and sacrificed accuracy (no Claw Sharpen). I'd want to see if it could sweep as well as fully evolved dragons if a Blaziken passed it a Claw Sharpen + Speed boost.
Has anyone tested this item on Marill w/Huge Power? Would it allow Azumarill's pre-evo to be worth anything?
Don't forget Trapinch, his ability is sill great for the lower tiers.
Marill's top possible Attack rating is 304 with a latent S Atk of 76, and 281/204/204 defenses. Base Speed is 40.
Azumarill's top possible Attack rating is 436 with a latent S Atk of 136, and 341/196/196 defenses. Base Speed is 50.
Azumarill far outranks Marill defensively without using Lefties. Marill can't use the Special boost from Cheer Up as well.
Trapinch is pathetic. 231/189/189 defenses, base speed of 10, and it's 328 Atk can't guarantee OHKOs as well anymore without some type of boost.
ScarfPinch is superior to EvoPinch, and CB Diglett superior to that.
This is amazing.
Chansey = The new Blissey
Blissey = UU
Gligar = The new Gliscor
Gliscor = UU/BL (thanks to pretty good Attack and Speed)
This item is going to be great...I'm going to try it on Chansey. The only let down I see is it misses out on Leftovers but its not that much of a problem considering the damage output will be reduced by quite a lot.
Chansey = The new Blissey
Blissey = UU
Gligar = The new Gliscor
Gliscor = UU/BL (thanks to pretty good Attack and Speed)
This item is going to be great...I'm going to try it on Chansey. The only let down I see is it misses out on Leftovers but its not that much of a problem considering the damage output will be reduced by quite a lot.