Posting in major support of the Luvdisc system. It's unbiased, shows off how popular a thread is by how many likes it has, prevents negative feedback in such a way that it can upset users (that's a huge pro), and gives unbadged users a very fun and cool feature to use that makes Smogon seem more unique. I don't want to write an essay explaining why I feel that others' doubts of the Luvdisc system are unfounded, so I'll just say that I really think that the Luvdisc are a great addition to the site and I'd be very, very sad if they were to go.
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Luvdiscs vs. Stars
- Thread starter THE_IRON_...KENYAN?
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I concur.
You mean the more popular users, as a lot of what goes on here is just a popularity contest rather than having true merit. Not to say that every badged member doesn't pull their weight, far from it, but implying that badged members are smarter than non-badged members is just about the most arrogant comment I've ever seen in these forums. So thank you for supporting elitism.
I support elitism. That said, I don't find badgeholders to even be proven to be smarter than most other users...
StevenSnype, you'd be the only one to use stars in that way then. I've seen enough thread ratings to know that almost everyone rates a star 5 stars if they like it. Significantly less do 1 star if they hate it. Just about nobody uses anything in between.
StevenSnype, you'd be the only one to use stars in that way then. I've seen enough thread ratings to know that almost everyone rates a star 5 stars if they like it. Significantly less do 1 star if they hate it. Just about nobody uses anything in between.
I think it could be a good idea to use a system similar to that used at rottentomatoes.com. It contains both positive and negative reviews that balance eachother out in order to create an average of sorts. If people see that there are people that disliked the thread, the luvdiscs might have less impact.
EDIT: This thread has 14 luvdiscs... I don't know what to think anymore... Does that mean this thread is good? Or does it suck 0_0.
EDIT: This thread has 14 luvdiscs... I don't know what to think anymore... Does that mean this thread is good? Or does it suck 0_0.
If you're talking about the voting, rottentomatoes is essentially stars times twenty. Not much point there.
Honestly, my question is, do people even rely on the star/luvdisc system to the point where it actively participates in the decision of whether to view threads or not? Speaking from my point of view, I couldn't care less about what people label the thread as; no one can make that decision whether I like the thread or not, but me. Sure, it may raise some interest in a thread if it has higher stars, but does it play that much of a factor to start whining over which system to use?
And I think, regardless of whichever system, that the ratings will be abused, no matter who we give the opportunity to rate the thread to. Many members of the community will continue to make uninformed decisions based on their superficial judgment of the thread; some badgeholders will have grudges against each other (or just hate each other plain and simple) and think 1 staring another person's thread means one upping them, or something stupid like that. Either way, it's nothing to get all heated about: It's just a rating system.
And I think, regardless of whichever system, that the ratings will be abused, no matter who we give the opportunity to rate the thread to. Many members of the community will continue to make uninformed decisions based on their superficial judgment of the thread; some badgeholders will have grudges against each other (or just hate each other plain and simple) and think 1 staring another person's thread means one upping them, or something stupid like that. Either way, it's nothing to get all heated about: It's just a rating system.
Well, I realize that this debate isn't really slowing down, so here is my opinion (aside from this debate being rather pointless). I look at desicions by balancing the worst outcome and the best outcome. The best thing that happens with the Luvdisc sytem is that a system without a negative feedback occurs; it becomes apparent when someone is doing things right, but it is harder to tell if a thread is bad, or just not good.
The worst thing that happens with Luvdisc is that the faction of unbadged and unintelligent users will trolll the system to the point where it is entirely meaningless.
Obviously, the reality lies in the middle: everyone who has made a case is wrong. The system is abuses, but it is not meaningless. If we can just get past the stupid elitism vs. popular voting debate, we could see the truth. But we can't. We let personal bias make things look like they lie on one extreme or the other. But back on topic, let's look at stars.
The best thing that a star system can do is provide quality, intelligent ratings from the most experienced and worthy members of the community who have proved themselves capable. The worst thing that happens is that it degrades into a political battlefield or an elitism system that gives little to no indication of how good a thread is.
Once again, the truth lies in the middle, although I personally believe it lies near the tatter extreme.
Since the worst outcome of both systems is the same, a worthless system, I will consider the positives. I consider the possible benifits of the star system to be greater than those of the Luvdiec system. While a limiting factor of sorts (revokable rating privlages, only contributing members of the particular forum may rate, contributing members of a forum may rate regardless of badge status may rate, etc) might be helpful, I do believe the star system to be superior.
The worst thing that happens with Luvdisc is that the faction of unbadged and unintelligent users will trolll the system to the point where it is entirely meaningless.
Obviously, the reality lies in the middle: everyone who has made a case is wrong. The system is abuses, but it is not meaningless. If we can just get past the stupid elitism vs. popular voting debate, we could see the truth. But we can't. We let personal bias make things look like they lie on one extreme or the other. But back on topic, let's look at stars.
The best thing that a star system can do is provide quality, intelligent ratings from the most experienced and worthy members of the community who have proved themselves capable. The worst thing that happens is that it degrades into a political battlefield or an elitism system that gives little to no indication of how good a thread is.
Once again, the truth lies in the middle, although I personally believe it lies near the tatter extreme.
Since the worst outcome of both systems is the same, a worthless system, I will consider the positives. I consider the possible benifits of the star system to be greater than those of the Luvdiec system. While a limiting factor of sorts (revokable rating privlages, only contributing members of the particular forum may rate, contributing members of a forum may rate regardless of badge status may rate, etc) might be helpful, I do believe the star system to be superior.
Posting in agreement with eraddd;
who gives a fuck
I want to be on a dictator ship
News flash: Smogon is a dictatorship. You want a say? Then go do something helpful. Until then, people aren't going to listen to anybodies opinion because it "isn't right" that they don't. It's better to assume everybody is an idiot until they prove otherwise. If they don't want to, thats their call.
who gives a fuck
Ya fuck the administration! Where are my rights!
I want to be on a dictator ship
News flash: Smogon is a dictatorship. You want a say? Then go do something helpful. Until then, people aren't going to listen to anybodies opinion because it "isn't right" that they don't. It's better to assume everybody is an idiot until they prove otherwise. If they don't want to, thats their call.
This
Now that I look back on it, then yeah, Luvdiscs does seem like the way to go, it allows unregistered users to see the potential of smogon
By that logic, everyone without a badge is an idiot. So are you calling yourself an idiot now?
Maybe only badged users should be posting in the suggestion box.
I've been mulling this over for a minute, and here's what I've come up with:
Option One: Everyone Gets a Share
Instead of picking one option over the other, just differentiate them. Give regular users the ability to "Luv" individual posts. Since most threads are made up of a few great posts and a lot of bullshit, this would help keep the two from looking the same. Just make it so there has to be x number of Luvs for them to start showing up so people don't rape the system.
Stars, too, could be handled that way. If a badgeholder thinks the whole thread is great, it gets a star (no five-star vs one-star piddly fights), and as the number of badgeholders who star it increase, so does the number of stars. If an un-star feature is needed, just make it so it takes x number of un-stars to equal a regular star (if a thread is really bad enough to get one star it won't be just one person un-starring it).
This option keeps the masses happy, gives the badgeholders the elitist separation that we all love oh-so dearly, removes the bitching and moaning this whole thing has fallen into, and offers people a clear-cut way to discern between the meat and the fat in a thread.
Option Two: Mod's Discretion
I always assumed threads that could earn a five-star rating should be first-page threads, but apparently that's not right. If a thread is really all that people are saying it's cracked up to be, the users who moderate the forum would know better than anyone else (that badge they have means they're reading every post of every thread, right?). It's these few users who should get the chance to highlight the threads that are a cut above the rest, not the uneducated masses (other badgeholders included).
The mods of each subforum could have a weekly (arbitrary value) meeting on IRC to talk about the threads that are receiving the most attention and vote on whether or not they should be given special status (such as, moving them to a forum where only other threads of that calibur exist). People could still post in them, but they're distinguishable from the threads not at the same level of pertinence.
Then the next week they can discuss whether those same threads are still as useful as they were before and decide whether to move them back to the rest of the forum or if they're still great enough to be kept in that special group. This'll keep things from getting backlogged, give users the ability to differentiate between great threads and shit threads, and streamline a process so that great threads can be put in Thread Cryonics (which I believe should be the final destination for any threads that were five-star worthy).
Here's that option in a flow of events:
-Thread is posted
-Thread gets popular, pertinent, and informative
-Mod A notices the Thread
-Mods A, B, and C vote on whether or not the thread is worth highlighting
-Thread is moved to a "Best of the Best" subforum or is left alone
Those are the best options I could think up, but they're still probably going to be the root of a lot of whining. No matter what happens, I just hope it gets put to rest quickly so the administration can move on to more important things.
Option One: Everyone Gets a Share
Instead of picking one option over the other, just differentiate them. Give regular users the ability to "Luv" individual posts. Since most threads are made up of a few great posts and a lot of bullshit, this would help keep the two from looking the same. Just make it so there has to be x number of Luvs for them to start showing up so people don't rape the system.
Stars, too, could be handled that way. If a badgeholder thinks the whole thread is great, it gets a star (no five-star vs one-star piddly fights), and as the number of badgeholders who star it increase, so does the number of stars. If an un-star feature is needed, just make it so it takes x number of un-stars to equal a regular star (if a thread is really bad enough to get one star it won't be just one person un-starring it).
This option keeps the masses happy, gives the badgeholders the elitist separation that we all love oh-so dearly, removes the bitching and moaning this whole thing has fallen into, and offers people a clear-cut way to discern between the meat and the fat in a thread.
Option Two: Mod's Discretion
I always assumed threads that could earn a five-star rating should be first-page threads, but apparently that's not right. If a thread is really all that people are saying it's cracked up to be, the users who moderate the forum would know better than anyone else (that badge they have means they're reading every post of every thread, right?). It's these few users who should get the chance to highlight the threads that are a cut above the rest, not the uneducated masses (other badgeholders included).
The mods of each subforum could have a weekly (arbitrary value) meeting on IRC to talk about the threads that are receiving the most attention and vote on whether or not they should be given special status (such as, moving them to a forum where only other threads of that calibur exist). People could still post in them, but they're distinguishable from the threads not at the same level of pertinence.
Then the next week they can discuss whether those same threads are still as useful as they were before and decide whether to move them back to the rest of the forum or if they're still great enough to be kept in that special group. This'll keep things from getting backlogged, give users the ability to differentiate between great threads and shit threads, and streamline a process so that great threads can be put in Thread Cryonics (which I believe should be the final destination for any threads that were five-star worthy).
Here's that option in a flow of events:
-Thread is posted
-Thread gets popular, pertinent, and informative
-Mod A notices the Thread
-Mods A, B, and C vote on whether or not the thread is worth highlighting
-Thread is moved to a "Best of the Best" subforum or is left alone
Those are the best options I could think up, but they're still probably going to be the root of a lot of whining. No matter what happens, I just hope it gets put to rest quickly so the administration can move on to more important things.
why doesnt this user have a badge yet?
We could easily do a Staryu or Starmie system so your case is pretty much irrelevant.
snorlax yo
or zapdos, i think zapdos would look really cool
and both beat starmie so
or zapdos, i think zapdos would look really cool
and both beat starmie so
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