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The Everything NFL Thread - 2013-2014 Edition

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some hero said:
Griffin being on the list while Romo being left out is the biggest.
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Why? Do you think Romo was better than RG3 last season? I certainly dont. Though Romo was better than Stafford last season.

DM said:
I'd say all the average running backs that somehow made the list when CJ Spiller didn't

this isn't even a homer thing, he was 5th overall in the league last year in yards from scrimmage, and that's with fucking Chan fucking Gailey making him sit entire series "because he was winded" or "it was Fred's turn"
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Agreed. I have no idea why LeSean McCoy, Trent Richardson and MJD made it and Spiller didnt. LOL. There is ton of other head-scratchers like Stephen Tulloch, Darelle Revis, Champ Bailey, Justin Houston, Ndamukong Suh, Antonio Gates etc.
 
CPrime said:
Anyone been following NFL's top 100 players list? A lot of the list seems completely reasonable but man there are some head shakers and face palmers.
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It's pretty much garbage. There's no way it is voted on by players, imo. And even if it was it wouldn't be better. Players are subject to the same East Coast media bias as journalists/fans. They can't decide whether it is based strictly on last year or not. If it is based strictly on last year Alfred Morris should have been the second best running back on the list. If it is based strictly on last year Brees has no business being ahead of Griffin. It's also dumb because how do you weight the different positions against each other? A single offensive player can make an entire offense good. A single defensive player can't really do the same because of the offense's ability to play around him and target weak spots. Does this mean defensive players shouldn't be as high? And then should the top be dominated by QBs since they're so much more impactful than WRs and O-linemen?

My top ten would be this fwiw:

1. Adrian Peterson
2. Aaron Rodgers
3. Peyton Manning
4. Tom Brady
5. J.J. Watt
6. Calvin Johnson
7. Von Miller
8. Robert Griffin III
9. Patrick Willis
10. Richard Sherman
 
Wikey said:
My top ten would be this fwiw:

1. Adrian Peterson
2. Aaron Rodgers
3. Peyton Manning
4. Tom Brady
5. J.J. Watt
6. Calvin Johnson
7. Von Miller
8. Robert Griffin III
9. Patrick Willis
10. Richard Sherman
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I would almost wholly agree with this list. The big names on there deserve to be there because they're continuing to earn their fame, and the younger upstarts like Sherman and Miller certainly put up the performance to be there. I don't think I'd stick Griffin III as high as the top 10 overall, but he's definitely brought life to a weakened franchise and has altered the way defenses play as just a rookie.

I largely disagree with the Top 100 list as it is, as there is entirely too much fanboying going on. Andrew Luck being where he is after the numbers he put out says it all.
 
I do think the fanboy hype is pretty insane, with Luck and Griffin up so high. Kaepernick sits at a more reasonable 70-something(?). And yeah, the weighting just doesn't really work out. Of course the list of top players is going to be QB heavy; they have to run the offense for the most part. Not to mention that a lot of NFL players can't objectively rate their peers from year to year, but that's understandable.
Honestly my favorite feature of the list is being able to hear what players have to say about each other. I think it's cool hearing experienced pros talking about pros instead of hearing what some analyst or commentator has to say about them.
 
for every season he plays like he did this season, RGIII is at least up there in the argument

Luck is all speculation which is odd, Flacco is the most disgusting overrate imaginable but not really surprising

p.s. Whoever said Brees was not top 10 based on last year, are you literally incapable of thought? He went for 43 TD and 19 INT!!!! I guess that tumble down to 63% marginally matters or something, but his team was not 7-9 because of the troubles that disrupted their offseason, particularly probably losing a head coach was kind of important.

Drew Brees is the #1 QB in the league if you can look past "who totals up to the best statistics", I am always going to believe that. It is my bias or in my hope "correct" interpretation of "the eye test". It is certainly hard to argue against Rodgers or Brady if those guys are your pick, but if you think RGIII was anything like better than Brees in 2012 then you are fucking dreaming.

(my argument for why Brees is the best btw - we have clearly seen that something like "the quarterback who can toss the ball up the best" can easily win right now, after often terrible QBs Worse Manning and Terrible Flacco won two seasons in a row...out of the Brees/Manning/Brady/Rodgers superefficiency group who more or less dominated the past few seasons before that, well out of your god tier/efficiency model QB group, Brees has always been the one who goes for maximal gains with maximal risk while almost never lighting your team on fire doing it and with P. Manning a little too old he reigns supreme in my eyes)
 
CK kinda makes a good point about old man Manning: is this list supposed to be based on their last season, or their entire body of work? (Not that it's very accurate either way.)

Anyway, I'm not surprised that these are the names the players voted for. These are the names that come up every year, just like in the garbage Pro Bowl voting; this list is based just as much on reputation than it is any current ability or value.
 
(to be fair someone else brought up the one year thing, and then got it completely wrong which was what I was addressing xD)

I mean Better Manning you still have to give whatever amount of top anything-50 credit, really hard to place him right now. How do you interpret his postseason game etc but then again that has always been the question. Obviously B. Manning >> Luck based on anything besides future potential though!!
 
If I remember correctly, the list is supposed to rank the players based on where they stand heading into this season, largely influenced by last season's performance. It's not supposed to be a body-of-work type deal, but several players end up on that list anyway because they have an impressive body of work rather than playing at a current high level (such as Troy Polamalu, Ed Reed, Darrelle Revis, etc).
 
CaptKirby said:
p.s. Whoever said Brees was not top 10 based on last year, are you literally incapable of thought? He went for 43 TD and 19 INT!!!! I guess that tumble down to 63% marginally matters or something, but his team was not 7-9 because of the troubles that disrupted their offseason, particularly probably losing a head coach was kind of important.

Drew Brees is the #1 QB in the league if you can look past "who totals up to the best statistics", I am always going to believe that. It is my bias or in my hope "correct" interpretation of "the eye test". It is certainly hard to argue against Rodgers or Brady if those guys are your pick, but if you think RGIII was anything like better than Brees in 2012 then you are fucking dreaming.

(my argument for why Brees is the best btw - we have clearly seen that something like "the quarterback who can toss the ball up the best" can easily win right now, after often terrible QBs Worse Manning and Terrible Flacco won two seasons in a row...out of the Brees/Manning/Brady/Rodgers superefficiency group who more or less dominated the past few seasons before that, well out of your god tier/efficiency model QB group, Brees has always been the one who goes for maximal gains with maximal risk while almost never lighting your team on fire doing it and with P. Manning a little too old he reigns supreme in my eyes)
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I'm not sure if you're talking about me. I said he didn't belong ahead of RG3. I'd put him at number 11 but it's pretty meaningless. I could put him at 9 right after RG3 or even toss all the non-QBs to the bottom half of the eleven and have him even higher.

When you look at RG3 you have to look at his running stats as well and the fact that he had the second best RB in the league taking away red zone touches. I think with the number of rushing QBs coming into the league right now we have to shift how we think about running. If the WCO is predicated on short passes being the same as good runs we can look at the new group of QBs running the ball being as good as short WCO passes. So comparing Brees to Griffin with Griff's rushing stats added in.

Player Yards Comp Att Avg TDs INTs

Brees 5182 | 437 | 685 | 7.56 | 44 | 19
Griffin 4015 | 368 | 513 | 7.82 | 27 | 5

So Brees beats Griff pretty hard in yards and touchdowns. But Griff has the better completion percentage, the better YPA passing (his YPC actually brings his Avg down a good bit) and way fewer INTs. You have to factor in that Brees got way more touches than Griffin (172) especially in the red zone. Alfred Morris had 13 TDs to Ingram's 5. And AlMo's longest run was like 39 yards. Most of his TDs were red zone touches. Add those TD totals to Griffin and Brees and the gap closes even more. I guess I just favor efficiency over counting numbers. I think last year on one play a healthy Griffin is way more powerful offensively than a healthy Brees with all things equal. And again, I think Brees was the next QB after Griff last year. So it's not a big gap.
 
I was going to post a serious response to what Wikey just said. But instead of getting upset on the internet, I won't bite.

You go, guy. If you want to think RGIII was better than Drew "The Entire Saints Organization Last Year" Brees, then you can.
 
I can't believe i'm agreeing with tehvalkry... Even if Brees isn't as good as the other QBs, Griffin can't compare.

I'll say it again. Romo had an incredible season and he should be ranked ahead of Griffin. At least. In fact Romo should have been in the top 15 easily. Higher than Brees, Griffin, Flacco(lol), Brady etc. anyone not named Peyton or Rodgers.
 
some hero said:
I can't believe i'm agreeing with tehvalkry... Even if Brees isn't as good as the other QBs, Griffin can't compare.

I'll say it again. Romo had an incredible season and he should be ranked ahead of Griffin. At least. In fact Romo should have been in the top 15 easily. Higher than Brees, Griffin, Flacco(lol), Brady etc. anyone not named Peyton or Rodgers.
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Leading the league in interceptions is an incredible season?

Also this is hilarious:

BA8BA66F-12E0-4D4B-BC69-0E89E459FF4F-13786-00000CE871D9BF0F_zpsebc215d7.jpg
 
Mother of god. Belichick needs to start working some dark magic to keep Pollard away from the Patriots.
 
So happy football discussion is back on...Hernandez though man, regardless of innocence or guilt, talk about a good way of fucking up your career...
 
yeah Hernandez fucked up huge. how can someone put themselves in a situation like that??? seriously just play football and you make millions a year retire at like 35 then do whatever the hell you want.
expanding on that I dont think the Patriots will really be affected(all that much). sure they will miss Hernandez and the injured Gronk combo but its the Pats lol. Especially with their running game improving, I dont think losing their top 3 receivers will effect them which is kind of crazy to say but yeah.
 
http://www.boston.com/sports/footba...of_letter_aaron_hernandez_sent_new_engla.html
so the full text of a letter that hernandez sent the patriots got released which he basically says he's cleaned up [he never failed an nfl drug test either] and will work hard, and basically serves as one of the factors behind us drafting him [and a nice retort to the plethora of retarded articles about what teams passed on him that are now popping up after his arrest]. Really kinda pulled at me since he was one of my favorite players, this whole scenario is really crazy, i don't even get how he's stupid enough to throw away everything he had to get involved in whatever he was involved in when he had professed a commitment to working hard and all that.
 
Griffin might be better in the future. Low interceptions and cool running statistics=/=better now. The New Orleans Brees were wrecked on the offseason and predictably opened the season 0-4, but all the losses were close and except Chiefs entirely defense based losses (lost by 8, 7, 3, by 1 to the Packers ON THE ROAD). If you think Brees was worse than Griffin last season you are not looking at the overall situation correctly at all imo it is not about who can be the most perfect, because perfection is incredibly fragile and flies out the window most of the time in the postseason (uh yo 18-0 Patriots "best offense of all time" etc etc etc). It is about who can be at their best the most consistently, and it obviously has to be 4/4 guys out of Brees Brady or Rodgers or even B. Manning until proven otherwise. If this list is supposed to include future speculation then okay, Griffin if he can stay relatively uninjured has a huge future career ahead of him and Brees has 4- years left. Still Brees is the same Super Bowl winning level QB now though that he was in 2009.

Romo was not better than Griffin last season. You can only knock someone over using a "simple" system so much, when it works that well it becomes execution at some point. This is not Tim Tebow hype, the RG3 hype is real. Remember RG3 was tossing 80% 4 TD a game over like 6 games to start his last college season, the guy can freaking ball.
 
Ron Jaworski just ranked Robert Griffin III as the 13th-best quarterback in the NFL.

Fucking blasphemous, and lower than both Russell Wilson and Andrew Luck.

He also ranked Jay Cutler, yes the Jay Cutler that failed to lead his team to the playoffs despite Charles Tillman giving him a 14-point handicap every game, as the 14th best quarterback, which is ahead of both Matthew Stafford and Tony Romo.

Also he had Cam Newton 18th. Fucking joke rankings.


GAAH HE JUST PUT WILSON 11TH THAT MEANS LUCK IS HIGHEST. Ron Jaworski should change his name to Wrong Jaworski !!!
 
DetroitLolcat said:
Ron Jaworski just ranked Robert Griffin III as the 13th-best quarterback in the NFL.

Fucking blasphemous, and lower than both Russell Wilson and Andrew Luck.

He also ranked Jay Cutler, yes the Jay Cutler that failed to lead his team to the playoffs despite Charles Tillman giving him a 14-point handicap every game, as the 14th best quarterback, which is ahead of both Matthew Stafford and Tony Romo.

Also he had Cam Newton 18th. Fucking joke rankings.
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I was watching ESPN First Take this morning, and I completely agree with Steven A. Smith's opinion. The top 4 QBs in the league (in no order) are Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, and Aaron Rodgers. Following them are Eli Manning and Matt Ryan. Numbers 7-10 are RG3, Andrew Luck, Russel Wilson, and Colin Kaepernick. I haven't given too much thought as to who I'd put after those guys, but Cam would definitely be higher than 18th. I'd definitely put Stafford ahead of both Cutler and Romo, but it's a tossup for me on who's better between those two.

EDIT: Wow just thought of it I remember when Phillip Rivers was considered to be on the cusp of being elite.
 
Matt Ryan is so overrated. The dude has two of the top five WRs in the league and the greatest TE of all time. The top four of Manning, Brady, Rodgers, and Brees is pretty much a given. No one else is on that level. We give too much credit to mediocre guys who win Super Bowls. Do you really think Eli is better than Romo because twice his team went on a huge hot streak because they have like eighty incredible pass rushers? Also, anyone that thinks Luck is better than Cam is just wrong.
 
You don't get to call Matt Ryan overrated because of the talent around him when you praise griffin who had the best running game in the league last year.


Most dominant running game >>>> 2 good receivers, 1 old-no-longer in prime TE..

Matt Ryan did it as good as anyone not named Rodgers or Peyton.
 
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