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Wonder Launcher

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Blazen, Oct 4, 2010.

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What do you think of Miracle Shooter?

  1. It's a great addition, I hope it becomes standard.

    38 vote(s)
    9.0%
  2. It's a great addition, but I want it separate from the main metagame.

    162 vote(s)
    38.6%
  3. Not sure, it needs to be tested before I can judge it.

    98 vote(s)
    23.3%
  4. I hate it, but don't see any harm.

    19 vote(s)
    4.5%
  5. I hate it, keep it away from my metagame.

    103 vote(s)
    24.5%
  1. pharaohcalvin

    pharaohcalvin

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Messages:
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    This is lame IMO, I never used healing items in game, why in hell would I want to use them online? However, as long as it isn't the standard ruling, I have no problem with it being around. I myself will just not use it. So basically I say you shoddy users should have a sperate ladder for this, which would make everyone happy then. ^^;
  2. Saital

    Saital

    Joined:
    May 16, 2010
    Messages:
    53
    I feel like this would only be truly balanced if there were some new offensive items to counteract all the self-boosting items that will be used with the Miracle Shooter. Stuff like crippling potions to drop opponents' stats, or like ninja dust to drop their accuracy? That way it'd give you a choice between boosting yourself (but risk getting phazed) or harming an opponent (with their possiblity of them switching out).

    Flavor-wise, it might be hard to implement since, generally speaking, sabotaging an opponent in a cockfight is playing dirty. (But I guess so is using steroids for yourself?)
  3. Sorla

    Sorla

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1
    this sounds great, and realy interesting, and it wont be unbalance because theres things called stall breakers, wall breakers, phazers, and priority.

    and its pretty stupid realy for someone to stall 6 turns for max stats, since thats more than enough time to switch to a counter and just kill it, or phaze it, SD, DD etc is also simply superior, the x items would allow some few pokemon with potential but no good stat boosting moves to set up.
  4. LightningLord2

    LightningLord2

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Messages:
    146
    You could also do things such as putting an X Attack 1 on Evire and sweep faster. Also, with items, I get a +6 X Defend when you get your +6 Attack.
  5. thelaytonmobile

    thelaytonmobile

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    260
    The turn used for the items could be very important: a lot can happen in one turn! Like someone else said, the time when gym leaders use items is perfect to switch or stat up, and using a status move on something that really doesn't want it as it uses the item could force wasting of points.
    However, I think that Revive, Max Revive, and maybe Full Restore will be broken.
    Personally, I'd turn this off, except maybe if I was doing a casual battle with a friend who wanted it on.
  6. dfabassist

    dfabassist

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2010
    Messages:
    16
    i dont want my games to last a billionyears longer : /
  7. Louk

    Louk

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    Sep 23, 2010
    Messages:
    1
    Screw the +6 items, the most interesting/abusable thing here is the three point teammate ability call. Is Shedninja + Spirittomb a real possibility? How long does it last? I mean, damn, even besides wonderguard, I'm sure there are a ton of abusable combos out there. Shadow Tag on any pokemon, Volt Absorb Gyrados, Levitate Heatran, just off the top of my head. Magic Mirror Deoxys S?
  8. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent Yeah, well. The Dude abides
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

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    i thought stall was finally gonna disappear this gen due to the monster attackers weve now got. And here comes miracle shooter, bringing it back. See an age of protect... Although tbh, offense can take advantage of it too, since its hard to survive two or more axeface dragon sweeps
  9. ChaosAkita

    ChaosAkita

    Joined:
    May 20, 2006
    Messages:
    189
    I think this could be a great idea for people who would like to see a more stall-based metagame, a la Generation II. It should be optional only though.
  10. Blazen

    Blazen

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    79
    Maybe I should have made this topic a poll so that we could gather a general opinion. I agree with Saital that offensive items would have been cool.
  11. Karoda Gai

    Karoda Gai

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    20
    I seriously think you should make this a poll cause there are strong opinions clashing here, and I would like to see if these the people against legal items out number the people for it, so I know whether to just deal with it on a regular basis... because personally I'd rather legal items stay in casual play
  12. alphatron

    alphatron Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
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    1,443
    From what I'm understanding, it works like this.

    Each turn, both me and my opponent get a point. Then we can use a turn to get an item and use it instead of actually attacking.

    Stall aside, I'm not seeing too big an issue here. If my Machamp Dynamic Punches a Blissey and my opponent has lasted 14 turns to buy a max revive and use it, then I'll spend that 14th turn setting up or attacking another pokemon, or simply kill their Blissey with my Machamp again once it switches in. Corner case, but you all get it.

    As someone has already said before, both participants have access to this function. And there is no rule stating that both participants have to purchase the same items. Why should you always have 14 points ready to buy that max revive by turn 14 if you already wasted points earlier on that X attack to boost your salamence (only to have it die or switch out when your opponent brought in their counter expecting a dragon dance)?

    This is something that should just be tested instead of simply being shunned and shot down. New mechanics like this are a rarity for pokemon anyway.

    And yes, um...first post here.
  13. the_artic_one

    the_artic_one

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
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    829
    This would be pretty cool for an alternate metagame. I hope we get a ladder for it when pokemon lab gets 5th get in.
  14. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
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    2,683
    While I definitely don't want to see this become standard, I don't think it will be nearly as broken as people think, even in Little Cup. In Little Cup, even if a Potion can completely heal your Pokemon every two turns, that's only the same amount of health that two recovers would give you. So spamming Potions would be exactly the same as spamming Recover+1 attack every two turns.

    In Lv. 100, it takes a lot more turns to get a Full Restore, so you can't spam them nearly as easily. The boosts can be easily countered by Phazing, Hazing, or simply hitting the Pokemon hard when they use the boosts. Cradilly is pretty bulky, but it's still slow so you have a chance to 2HKO it before it can get both +6 Spe and +6 Atk. Mountain Storm and Ice Breath can also completely ignore Defensive boosts because they always land a critical hit. There's also Scarf Ditto to take into account.

    Due to the number of this that have already been overhyped, we definitely need to test this before we can say it's completely broken, and I doubt it will become standard regardless of what we find.
  15. Ryanide

    Ryanide

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    300
    I don't think it should become standard either. That's breaking tradition.

    But I think it should have an entirely separate metagame to itself without being completely shunned. I really hope to see separate ladders for double battles,rotation and triple as well. We finally have an interesting new mechanic to abuse and play around with. Make it a standard on it's own, separate from the main style of no-items play.

    Gamefreak never allowed item use in PvP battles because from the early days of pokemon, that was unfair, as items were designed to help get the player through campaign mode, and it would ultimately come down to who had the most revives in their inventory at the time (richer player wins)

    Now, they've actually implimented a point system and a set of rules for item use in PvP, so rather than complaining about how items are wimpy or cheap, just consider that it's simply another option to add that extra dimension to battles now. It's not an exploit, it's part of this battling style.
  16. Blazen

    Blazen

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    Dec 7, 2009
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    Added a poll. Ryanide the point of Gen 5 was to break tradition. Also, the physical/special split did that long before this.
  17. Trackman

    Trackman

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
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    90
    Ugh, to me it just seems to take the competitiveness out of battles, what's the point when they can just bring back a key sweeper/wall you worked so strategically (or anyway, really) hard to get rid of?
  18. FrenzyB3ar

    FrenzyB3ar

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
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    972
    Even though its nice to have new gameplay, I wouldnt really want to play this. Just like the cartoon - once your pokemon is out, its out. Ive always enjoyed struggling trying to make a comeback with weakened pokes, as too me thats the spirit of the game - thats makes it more fun.

    Like I said, it's always good to have something new. However at least there is an option to turn it off.
  19. Arc Tech

    Arc Tech

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
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    740
    I don't think it is anti-competitive- it is perfectly even, after all. Each player gets the same number of points. It could add another dimension- not just who uses their pokes best but who uses their items best as well.
    I would call the random side-effect chances of flamethrower, ice beam, tbolt, fire punch, etc., as well as other haxy things like scarfrachi more anti-competitive than the miracle shooter.
  20. AOTKorby

    AOTKorby

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
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    27
    This shouldn't be part of standard metagame, but I think there should be a separate game with the Miracle Shooter implemented. The idea adds a new element of strategy, and as long as it doesn't unbalance the game somehow, it could be a fun alternative to the comparatively predictable standard. Hopefully people will try it out.
  21. Gabe

    Gabe

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    Ehh unnecessary IMO.
  22. lati0s

    lati0s

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    Is this sarcasm? If not that is really bad reasoning.
  23. soul_survivor

    soul_survivor

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2010
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    884
    i don't like it. most of my battles take longer than minutes while that is a good 30-40 turns. i'll just be stalling my opponent to death and then he/she uses +6 x atk and then im screwed.
  24. Ryanide

    Ryanide

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
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    300
    You make it sound as if you won't be using the system at all, but your opponent will.
  25. Focus

    Focus I'm waiting you...

    Joined:
    May 27, 2010
    Messages:
    646
    Why are some people so hostile to Miracle Shooter? Because it adds another layer of strategy to Pokemon battles? I have not played Miracle Shooter yet, but I see no harm in having it be an option other than the standard battle.

    Can you still use an item on Slaking instead of just watching it loaf around? If so, Slaking usage would almost definitely be high IMO.

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