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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 2 - Who am I to break tradition?

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May I just point out, on the topic of Blaziken, that Azumarill is a sure stop to it.

...

That said, Azumarill revenges Mothra, Landos, and Excadrill as well. Nattorei can't switch in due to Superpower OHKO'ing any which aren't running a lot of physical defense. Latios and Sazandora fear Ice Punches.

More people should use Azumarill...
 
masterful said:
Availability does not equate to usage. Exca is really outclassed by scizor at this point, and I see very little of him OR Scizor. On the other hand, Breloom usage is pretty high, as is Conkeldurr. Tyranitar is common, however many of his commonly used sets don't even USE Pursuit, opting to go as leads and/or lures
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Then it's Lucky I accounted for all that so you couldn't use that as an excuse isn't it? I split usage into common and uncommon with TTar and scizor being just as common in usage as breloom and conkeldurr if not more. You say that TTar doesn't usually pack pursuit which I can say the same about breloom not having mach punch as technician is not released and I see more with sub/focus punch.

Using PO statistics since we have nothing else to prove otherwise,
% of breloom with mach punch: 19.68% of 6879
% of tyranitar with pursuit: 31.08% of 22520
 
The one upside of Blaziken is that you can switch in on the turn he SDs up, and there's a few Pokemon that resist both of Blaziken's STABs. Here's a look at how much damage they take from the worst-case coverage move. For some quick comparison estimates, NVE Blitz < NVE HJK < Stone Edge << NVE Blaze Blitz < SE Shadow Claw, where < indicates a less than 10% difference and << is about a 30% difference.

+2 LO 252+ Blaziken Stone Edge vs 252/252+ Tentacruel: 75.8% - 89.3%
+2 LO 252+ Blaziken Shadow Claw vs 252/252+ Slowbro: 70.1% - 82.7%
+2 LO 252+ Blaziken Stone Edge vs 252/252+ Victini: 73.3% - 86.6%
+2 LO 252+ Blaziken Stone Edge vs 252/252+ Jellicent: 83.2% - 98%
+1 LO 252+ Blaziken Stone Edge vs 248/252+ Gyarados: 94.1% - 110.9%
+2 LO 252+ Blaziken Flare Blitz vs 252/252+ Cresselia: 75.2% - 88.7%
+2 LO 252+ Blaziken Flare Blitz vs 252/252+ Deoxys-D/Uxie: 89.1% - 105.6%

Of course, after being hit with that boosted attack, every single one of the above OHKOs with STAB Water or Psychic attacks.

It should also be noted that Timid Scarf Starmie outspeeds Adamant Blaziken at +2 speed and can come in on anything Blaziken throws out except Shadow Claw. Latias and Latios can outspeed Adamant variants with a scarf, and can even survive Shadow Claw.

Also, just to be sure, ThunderPunch + Speed Boost is illegal, right?
 
petrie911 said:
The one upside of Blaziken is that you can switch in on the turn he SDs up, and there's a few Pokemon that resist both of Blaziken's STABs. Here's a look at how much damage they take from the worst-case coverage move. For some quick comparison estimates, NVE Blitz < NVE HJK < Stone Edge << NVE Blaze Blitz < SE Shadow Claw, where < indicates a less than 10% difference and << is about a 30% difference
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Problem with this is the increasing popularity of less suicidal MixHens using Fire Blast over Flare Blitz, and no SD. You risk coming into a powerful hit rather than a SD with any of the above, and many of the typical SD set counters will not enjoy that one bit.
 
shrang said:
Stone Edge is definitely the better option on Blaziken, IMO. Latios takes a bucketload from Stone Edge as it is, while you can use it to hit Gyarados and Salamence, two Pokemon that could Blaziken much more problems than Latios ever would.
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You're better off hitting Latios with Hi Jump Kick. It gets 97 base power against resistances, which is only a tiny bit less than Stone Edge, but gets better accuracy.

But I really do find Stone Edge to be overall better as a filler move, if only for Gyarados and Mence.
 
petrie911 said:
The one upside of Blaziken is that you can switch in on the turn he SDs up, and there's a few Pokemon that resist both of Blaziken's STABs. Here's a look at how much damage they take from the worst-case coverage move. For some quick comparison estimates, NVE Blitz < NVE HJK < Stone Edge << NVE Blaze Blitz < SE Shadow Claw, where < indicates a less than 10% difference and << is about a 30% difference.

+2 LO 252+ Blaziken Stone Edge vs 252/252+ Tentacruel: 75.8% - 89.3%
+2 LO 252+ Blaziken Shadow Claw vs 252/252+ Slowbro: 70.1% - 82.7%
+2 LO 252+ Blaziken Stone Edge vs 252/252+ Victini: 73.3% - 86.6%
+2 LO 252+ Blaziken Stone Edge vs 252/252+ Jellicent: 83.2% - 98%
+1 LO 252+ Blaziken Stone Edge vs 248/252+ Gyarados: 94.1% - 110.9%
+2 LO 252+ Blaziken Flare Blitz vs 252/252+ Cresselia: 75.2% - 88.7%
+2 LO 252+ Blaziken Flare Blitz vs 252/252+ Deoxys-D/Uxie: 89.1% - 105.6%

Of course, after being hit with that boosted attack, every single one of the above OHKOs with STAB Water or Psychic attacks.

It should also be noted that Timid Scarf Starmie outspeeds Adamant Blaziken at +2 speed and can come in on anything Blaziken throws out except Shadow Claw. Latias and Latios can outspeed Adamant variants with a scarf, and can even survive Shadow Claw.

Also, just to be sure, ThunderPunch + Speed Boost is illegal, right?
Click to expand...

Nobody runs those particular spreads on Tentacruel or Victini that im aware of. Also remember that, bar Cress and DeoxysD, these can all be destroyed by the MixKen set.
 
Maybe Azumarill shell smash boosted by a BP can be very good in this part of meta i think that can handle a great part of the meta. the hard part it's the boosting strategy xD
 
TheValkyries said:
Blaziken in the Sun greater than CB Azumarill.
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This is absolutely correct. CB Aqua Jet isn't even an ohko on healthy Blaziken in the sun. But that's Blaze with weather. If we're gonna account for that, then Blaze has even less healthy switch ins than before.

+2 Flare Blitz in the sun is a 100% OHKO on Max/Max Cresselia. It even ohko's things like Jellicient, non bulky Salamence and Gyarados, Tentacruel, and pretty much every other pokemon that isn't completely immune or 4x resistant. Prety sure 252 Bold Suicune loses 75% of its health from +2 Sun boosted Flare blitz with a life orb. Nothing is safe. Since you're running sun, Blaze can also choose to use Blaze kick over Flare Blitz since he's still OHKOing most of his problems anyway. But no need to worry about that. Not sure how Slowbro takes a +2 sun boosted LO flare blitz, but I know from experience that he can tank a blaze kick without any hazards.

I've also learned from experience that it is sometimes better to throw out hi jump kick, shadow claw, or another attack, if you believe your opponent suspects you'll Sword's Dance. It lures out scarfers who believe they'll dispose of Blaziken without any casualties, such as timid scarf politoed, starmie, flygon, hydriegon, lati@s, etc. If Blaziken is currently in on setup fodder, this usually nets a kill and removes a "counter". I've also killed a few enemy excadrill in this way when the sand was up, but I don't believe a silly switch in like that should count. I also learned from experience that if you have Blaziken out and your opponent sends in Blissey, Umbreon, Nattorei, or their own Blaziken that I should use Flare Blitz/Blaze Kick at all times since I'll most likely be seeing a protect as my opponent tries to get me killed off of hi jump kick.


Even with the raw power he holds, I don't think Blaze should be suspect. He's just like any other powerhouse of a sweeper if you ask me. Check him after he kills something or play around with smart switch ins (although you guys REALLY need to STOP switching Jellicient in on Blaziken. You're asking to lose the match). Revenge him with priority. Aside from being pursuit resistant, dispose of him the same way you would a specs/CM Latios.
 
alphatron said:
(although you guys REALLY need to STOP switching Jellicient in on Blaziken. You're asking to lose the match)
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See Jellicent in Team Preview? Expect free setup turn.

Aside from that, though, most bulky waters and Gliscor serve as pretty good checks (most are 2HKO'd at +2, but no good opponent will let Blaziken set up twice, so you can usually afford to force it out after a KO), and any of the big priority users not named Scizor can take him out after a bit of residual damage. He's hardly unstoppable.
 
astrohawke said:
Then it's Lucky I accounted for all that so you couldn't use that as an excuse isn't it? I split usage into common and uncommon with TTar and scizor being just as common in usage as breloom and conkeldurr if not more. You say that TTar doesn't usually pack pursuit which I can say the same about breloom not having mach punch as technician is not released and I see more with sub/focus punch.

Using PO statistics since we have nothing else to prove otherwise,
% of breloom with mach punch: 19.68% of 6879
% of tyranitar with pursuit: 31.08% of 22520
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1) What tier is that in?
2)Even with the weak to pursuit, which every single psychic/ghost pokemon ever has to deal with, Specs or scarf Latios is far faster and significanlty bulkier, has better resistances overall, and that really outweighs the lack of weakness to Pursuit (as well as Fire Blast, which isn't really that big of deal for latios, coverage-wise)
 
Kefka the god of magic said:
Latios resists Water,Fire,Grass,Electric,Psychic,and Fighting.
Hydreigon resists Water,Fire,Grass,Electric,Psychic,Dark,and Ghost.

Just use whatever benefits your team more.
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But the resistances aren't the important part. Despite the fact that (IMO) a fighting resist is better than a dark resist, you don't run a specs or scarf poke for the resistances. Latios completely destroys stuff, is really hard to outspeed and has damn good bulk. That's what's important, not some silly dark and psychic resistances
 
masterful said:
But the resistances aren't the important part. Despite the fact that (IMO) a fighting resist is better than a dark resist, you don't run a specs or scarf poke for the resistances. Latios completely destroys stuff, is really hard to outspeed and has damn good bulk. That's what's important, not some silly dark and psychic resistances
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Lets say I have 3 Ghost/Psychic types.
I need a damn Dark/Ghost resist while also being able to hit hard.
Am I going to use Latios or freaking Hydreigon?

Hydreigon isn't frail either and 98 Speed isn't THAT bad.
 
Hydregion is physically bulkier than Latias.

And choice pokemon do care about resistances/immunities. It's what they use to switch in.
 
98 speed still means that Sazandora will be outsped by all bas 100s, which is a pretty significant number and quite unfortunate in today's metagame.
 
Kefka the god of magic said:
Lets say I have 3 Ghost/Psychic types.
I need a damn Dark/Ghost resist while also being able to hit hard.
Am I going to use Latios or freaking Hydreigon?

Hydreigon isn't frail either and 98 Speed isn't THAT bad.
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Yeah of course. All I'm saying is Hydra shouldn't be the default when considering a scarfer or specs user.
 
Kefka the god of magic said:
U-turn without being 4x weak to Ice is nice too.
Resistances are important,but move pool is important too >.>
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Uhhh, Latios isn't 4x weak to ice. I'll change it, if you want a special scarfer that is slower than Latios, if you want a scarfer with U-turn that is slower than Flygon but can use Draco Meteor, or if your entire team is weak to dark. There you go
 
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