I'm looking for someone competent in the OU metagame to join me in building a good team. PM me if interested.
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Ask a Simple Question; Get a Simple Answer & General Resources (OU Edition)
- Thread starter Matthew
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K, I haven't been on smogon in forever and I honestly need the low down on what changed.
So is chomp back for the foreseeable future or is this a trial ?
What are the new major forces ?
Is stall viable ?
What and why are the current suspects ?
What's the decision on Excadrill, and Blaziken for the BW2 metagame ?
Are there any current controversies going on ?
And what do the typical teams of each archetype look like ? (HO, Stall, and Balanced are the main ones I'm interested in. ((I'm basically asking for cookie cutter teams to possibly get back into the meta))
Thank you for all those that reply. (Also admins, if this isn't the correct place, can you move it. I'm very sorry the inconvenience). Thank you and have good days fellow Smogonites.
K, I haven't been on smogon in forever and I honestly need the low down on what changed.
So is chomp back for the foreseeable future or is this a trial ?
What are the new major forces ?
Is stall viable ?
What and why are the current suspects ?
What's the decision on Excadrill, and Blaziken for the BW2 metagame ?
Are there any current controversies going on ?
And what do the typical teams of each archetype look like ? (HO, Stall, and Balanced are the main ones I'm interested in. ((I'm basically asking for cookie cutter teams to possibly get back into the meta))
Thank you for all those that reply. (Also admins, if this isn't the correct place, can you move it. I'm very sorry the inconvenience). Thank you and have good days fellow Smogonites.
1. Yep but sand viel is banned so its not what it once was
2. Genesect, Tornadus-T, Terrakion, 'dragons', and 'sun' are the major forces in the meta at the moment
3. Stall is having a real hard time funtioning because genesect is everywhere, forcing us to use Heatran (with shed shell becuase if its pair with Dugtrio otherwise its gg)
4. Blaziken is probably staying out seeing how it was even banned in dream world OU, Excadrill is probably never popping in because it got iron head
5. idk
6. If Im not mistaken a powerful cookie cutter team is politoed / tornadus-t / dugtrio / genesect / Tentacruel / Ferrothorn, but i might be mistaken, sun is similar just swap out the appropriate weather abusing pokemon and support
2. Genesect, Tornadus-T, Terrakion, 'dragons', and 'sun' are the major forces in the meta at the moment
3. Stall is having a real hard time funtioning because genesect is everywhere, forcing us to use Heatran (with shed shell becuase if its pair with Dugtrio otherwise its gg)
4. Blaziken is probably staying out seeing how it was even banned in dream world OU, Excadrill is probably never popping in because it got iron head
5. idk
6. If Im not mistaken a powerful cookie cutter team is politoed / tornadus-t / dugtrio / genesect / Tentacruel / Ferrothorn, but i might be mistaken, sun is similar just swap out the appropriate weather abusing pokemon and support
Garchomp: He's back. We tested Sand Veil and Snow Cloak under the Evasion Clause (and Garchomp simultaneously since he was notorious for Sand Veil abuse) and we determined that he was not the problem, but Sand Veil was. No more missing four Ice Punches in a row.
New major elements: Genesect; Therian Formes for the genies; Keldeo is now a thing.
Stall: Stall is all but dead. There's too many fast, powerful Pokémon that can run train/can sweep with only a few turns of set-up that pure stall just won't cut it anymore.
Suspects: Nothing is being Suspected for Ubers, but Kyurem-B is being suspected for entrance into the OU metagame. As it stands, it's looking like he will be introduced, as he's actually kinda lacking. He'll kill stall even more than it already is dead, but that's a by-product and isn't a factor in his Test.
People are clamoring for Drizzle, Genesect, Tornadus-T, and/or Deoxys-D to be Suspected, but I don't know if it's going to happen. Once Kyurem-B's test is over, keep on the lookout for a test for them.
Excadrill, Blaziken, and Thundurus-I: So far, none of these are being Suspected for reintroduction into the OU metagame. Honestly, I don't think they're going to happen. The reason Garchomp was dropped was because Sand Veil was hit under Evasion Clause. All of their Abilities are perfectly legal and it's not really a discussion for this post.
The only controversies are those potential Suspects I listed above. Stick around and see what happens.
As always, the various RMT subforums are great places to see what teams people are using, and you can usually find a team that someone has advertised as "peaking #whatever on the ladder".
New major elements: Genesect; Therian Formes for the genies; Keldeo is now a thing.
Stall: Stall is all but dead. There's too many fast, powerful Pokémon that can run train/can sweep with only a few turns of set-up that pure stall just won't cut it anymore.
Suspects: Nothing is being Suspected for Ubers, but Kyurem-B is being suspected for entrance into the OU metagame. As it stands, it's looking like he will be introduced, as he's actually kinda lacking. He'll kill stall even more than it already is dead, but that's a by-product and isn't a factor in his Test.
People are clamoring for Drizzle, Genesect, Tornadus-T, and/or Deoxys-D to be Suspected, but I don't know if it's going to happen. Once Kyurem-B's test is over, keep on the lookout for a test for them.
Excadrill, Blaziken, and Thundurus-I: So far, none of these are being Suspected for reintroduction into the OU metagame. Honestly, I don't think they're going to happen. The reason Garchomp was dropped was because Sand Veil was hit under Evasion Clause. All of their Abilities are perfectly legal and it's not really a discussion for this post.
The only controversies are those potential Suspects I listed above. Stick around and see what happens.
As always, the various RMT subforums are great places to see what teams people are using, and you can usually find a team that someone has advertised as "peaking #whatever on the ladder".
Let me go through this point by point:
Particularly, Genesect+Trapper has become the crutch of many succesful teams. Choice Scarf Genesect can force out pretty much anything and its usual counters are very trappable, especially by Dugtrio. The switch advantage gained by U-turn is used to force a trap (which is kinda of a dumb term to use since you unknowingly fall into a trap) on a certain, specific target. From there, you can bring in a sweeper with a very limited number of counters and go to town.
If you care for my own personal opinion I do not think either of them will be dropped. Excadrill gained new STAB Iron Head in BW2 which means it can lay the pain on Gliscor now:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 250-294 (70.62 - 83.05%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(250, 251, 255, 257, 261, 263, 266, 269, 273, 274, 278, 281, 285, 286, 290, 294)
Really only Techniloom was introduced to stop it. Granted it is popular, constantly going for the revenge kill with an easy to setup on priority move is not ideal (also forces everyone to run Techloom). IMO the Rapid Spin support that Excadrill could provide would be too great. I could see Excadrill+Volcarona or Dragonite cores getting really popular.
Blaziken got banned from DW which had everything under the sun to stop it :d Really I think it would just be too powerful both defense and offense to handle.
-HO with Deoxys-D
-Heavy Rain Offense featuring Tornadus-T
-Sun offense with Duggy
-Some Hippo sand teams
-Offensive non-weather packing multiple scarfers/priority.
Almost all them feature commonly feature Genesect (paired with Dugtrio is almost a given :L ). Not a lot of room for more defensive teams. These are some examples I have picked up upon after following the RMT closely for the past month which have had success and are from some regular users here on the forum.
Hope that paints the picture of the (rather unhealthy) state of the metagame for you.
Garchomp will be here for the forseeable future; it is now OU. As predicted, it isn't as game-changing of a force as its Uber's status deemed it. Essentially it has SubSD sets and the Choice Scarf set to use viably. Without the ability to boost its speed, pain SD and Choice Band sets find themselves in a pinch from all the Ice Beams thrown around by Genesect and Ice Shard's from Mamoswine. BulkySR setter faces very stif competition from Landorus-T.
Genesect has really become the defining force of the OU metagame. Essentially any team is in the "you can't go wrong" choice with having it on there, which stems from being very versatile. But its versatility is defined that every set is good and excels at its role more than any other Pokemon, whether it be Choice Scarf revenging, CB luring, CSpecs wallbreaking, or RP late game sweeping. It is also one of the few Pokemon to be pretty consistent in stopping Deoxys-D.
Particularly, Genesect+Trapper has become the crutch of many succesful teams. Choice Scarf Genesect can force out pretty much anything and its usual counters are very trappable, especially by Dugtrio. The switch advantage gained by U-turn is used to force a trap (which is kinda of a dumb term to use since you unknowingly fall into a trap) on a certain, specific target. From there, you can bring in a sweeper with a very limited number of counters and go to town.
Not really. Significant effort has to be put into teambuilding, and even then, you will be much better off just using an offensive team. You will find yourself in a position of either not having the utility to have a stall team (i.e. Rapid Spin, hazards, phazers, enough status users) to function or not having the ability to stop the powerful threats in the metagame. Think of running ShedShell Heatran to stop DuggySun with Gene while also trying to stop Tornadus-T, Terrakion, Lucario, Special and Physical Dragons, etc.
Genesect, Deoxys-D, and Tornadus-T are the pokes under the eye by the OU population to get banned in that order. Kyurem-B is considered for a drop.
None yet, we (and by that I mean only the suspect council) are deciding to drop all the stuff down first before banning things.
If you care for my own personal opinion I do not think either of them will be dropped. Excadrill gained new STAB Iron Head in BW2 which means it can lay the pain on Gliscor now:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 250-294 (70.62 - 83.05%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(250, 251, 255, 257, 261, 263, 266, 269, 273, 274, 278, 281, 285, 286, 290, 294)
Really only Techniloom was introduced to stop it. Granted it is popular, constantly going for the revenge kill with an easy to setup on priority move is not ideal (also forces everyone to run Techloom). IMO the Rapid Spin support that Excadrill could provide would be too great. I could see Excadrill+Volcarona or Dragonite cores getting really popular.
Blaziken got banned from DW which had everything under the sun to stop it :d Really I think it would just be too powerful both defense and offense to handle.
Just really how offensive the metagame is. No hat3rs going round.
Your main team archtypes are:
-HO with Deoxys-D
-Heavy Rain Offense featuring Tornadus-T
-Sun offense with Duggy
-Some Hippo sand teams
-Offensive non-weather packing multiple scarfers/priority.
Almost all them feature commonly feature Genesect (paired with Dugtrio is almost a given :L ). Not a lot of room for more defensive teams. These are some examples I have picked up upon after following the RMT closely for the past month which have had success and are from some regular users here on the forum.
Rain Offense:
Sexual Showers
Dragonite's Thunderus Plot
Sun Offense:
Simulation of a Drought
Molti Soli
Deoxys-D / HO (in italics for regular HO):
The Lamp That Could
Grimaniel
Weird Fish
Hippo sand:
Canine Carnage
My Little Pwny
End of All Hope
Offense with Multiple Choice Scarfer's+priority:
The Rough Sand
Sexual Showers
Dragonite's Thunderus Plot
Sun Offense:
Simulation of a Drought
Molti Soli
Deoxys-D / HO (in italics for regular HO):
The Lamp That Could
Grimaniel
Weird Fish
Hippo sand:
Canine Carnage
My Little Pwny
End of All Hope
Offense with Multiple Choice Scarfer's+priority:
The Rough Sand
Hope that paints the picture of the (rather unhealthy) state of the metagame for you.
thundurus-I is under consideration on the unban list for upcoming suspects (discussions with aldaron on IRC seem to support this statement, aldaron correct me if i am misquoting you!) however thundurus-I has big advantages over thundurus-T. that extra 10 speed counts for a lot in a metagame where "fast" is pretty up there. prankster also lets thundurus-I cripple revengers with prankster, although from what i gather this was not its defining set in the era in which it was banned. either way, it would be a severe oversimplification to suggest thundurus-T > thundurus-I.
regardless, i doubt there is any intent to just drop it without discussion. it'll be brought up, i imagine, but not at the moment when another suspect is on the table
oh and @ windwolf: that same conversation i had with aldaron today suggested that excadrill was also being considered for a drop test in the future. i have heard nothing of the sort regarding blaziken.
regardless, i doubt there is any intent to just drop it without discussion. it'll be brought up, i imagine, but not at the moment when another suspect is on the table
oh and @ windwolf: that same conversation i had with aldaron today suggested that excadrill was also being considered for a drop test in the future. i have heard nothing of the sort regarding blaziken.
Would this be a different story if Swift Swimmers were allowed with Politoed teams?
Probably, but that's one of the reasons Swift Swim was banned, I feel. They get incredible speed and power for free while you put junk on your team because you've got to do SOMETHING to deal with it.
If swift swim was allowed in OU, I'm pretty sure people would be packing more water resists and not faster pokemon. Maybe a combination of both, like scarf lati@s, but even then Kingdra would outspeed. Jolteon overall doesnt have enough power to afford to run a scarf or quick feet set. the fastest scarfer in OU is probably Latios just because it can outspeed scarf Keldeo/Terrak and has access to trick with130 Base SpA.
And Thundurus-I is much better than Thundurus-T. Being able to outspeed Latios, Gengar, the base 108ers is a big deal. The special attack difference is not an issue because it could easily just boost itself with NP.
And Thundurus-I is much better than Thundurus-T. Being able to outspeed Latios, Gengar, the base 108ers is a big deal. The special attack difference is not an issue because it could easily just boost itself with NP.
precisely.... there are relatively few scarfers in this game who can outspeed a +2 kingdra in the first place. scarfers would not become more popular if ss+drizzle was legal, since most ssers are fast enough to escape the vast majority of scarfers. you actually need 130 or more speed (ie jolteon and up) and a scarf to outrun +2 jolly kingdra... and if you think jolt can ohko kingdra with its relatively average special attack, you are SORELY mistaken (all its attacks are neutral - jolt scarf thunder vs 0/0 kingdra is maximum 74%, and jolly kingdra outrage is an OHKO on jolt after rocks). jolteon is not a viable check to any standard swift swimmer (except maybe kabutops, but +2 aqua jet in rain destroys you so lol nope you still lose), scarf or no scarf.
Honko's damage calculator seems to be down/gone; is there another one that I can access?
Honkalculator
? if the link doesn't work for you there was that silverlight one, but i forget it since i just stick to honko
? if the link doesn't work for you there was that silverlight one, but i forget it since i just stick to honko
This is the only other one I know considering that the Masara Silverlight one is apparently also gone, along with the Kalashnikov one
Honko has dropped support for the "free-hosting" domain. "Byethost" is still used however and is actually updated with new features. Link here:
http://honko.byethost8.com/manly_calc.html?style=lc
I just want to note that this isn't necessarily true. Thundurus-I's higher speed is better in many situations, but Thundurus-T serves a slightly different role. It can boast higher offensive power (also gets Nasty Plot), and it can solve the speed issue by running Agility. Thundurus-I's biggest boon is probably Prankster, when compared to Thundurus-T, as that allows it to get priority Taunt's/Sub's/Thunder Waves off. In a metagame where both were legal, I would see Thundurus-T as having a better chance to boost and sweep, given its stats/movepool, and Thundurus-I would seem to have more of a utility role. Of course this is all speculation as we haven't had a metagame with both of them in it yet, but I just wanted to show that they do serve different roles and shouldn't be compared so simply.
http://kalashnikov.pokecenter.ru/damage/ is still working fine for me.
Thanks guys.
Can someone link me to the rule set for OU? I'm new to the competitive scene. . .
Also is a lot of the team building info on this site even relevant to just regular random wifi battles? For instance I know drizzle + swift swim is banned, but that's not going to really stop people from using it on wifi. I'm not really sure how you'd ban it in the settings either.
I'm just generally interested in learning how to become an effective team builder. I want to make a good sun team based on volcarona. Is this a good team to try and build around? I'm not going to be super competitive about it on wifi, I don't really have the time to EV train but I can at least try to stick with similar IVs/Natures/Abilities.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3472413
I guess my aim isn't really to get into smogons OU competitive scene rather then just learning how to put together a team with good synergy. I don't really like using legendaries much, which the above team I linked too has in it. I guess I can understand the rating system on here though because of the poke's stat rating.
Thanks!
Also is a lot of the team building info on this site even relevant to just regular random wifi battles? For instance I know drizzle + swift swim is banned, but that's not going to really stop people from using it on wifi. I'm not really sure how you'd ban it in the settings either.
I'm just generally interested in learning how to become an effective team builder. I want to make a good sun team based on volcarona. Is this a good team to try and build around? I'm not going to be super competitive about it on wifi, I don't really have the time to EV train but I can at least try to stick with similar IVs/Natures/Abilities.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3472413
I guess my aim isn't really to get into smogons OU competitive scene rather then just learning how to put together a team with good synergy. I don't really like using legendaries much, which the above team I linked too has in it. I guess I can understand the rating system on here though because of the poke's stat rating.
Thanks!
Welcome to Smogon. You should start at the Articles section if you need to learn more about competitive Pokémon in general, specifically the Competitive Battling Introduction. As you are already aware of, you can browse the RMT forum to get a better idea of how some successful battlers build their teams. If you would like to try building a team and testing it out, hit up Pokemon Showdown to practice. Yes this uses all the Smogon/competitive rules and not the WiFi rules, but you will get experience in battling and teambuilding and test out strategies before going through the effort of training the Pokémon ingame to use on WiFi. (WiFi forum)
As of right now, the following things are banned in OU:
Moody, Soul Dew, Pokémon tiered as Uber, Sand Veil, Snow Cloak, Double Team, Minimize, Swift Swim on the same team as Drizzle
You aren't allowed to use unreleased Dream World abilities, you can't put more than 1 of your opponent's Pokémon to sleep at a time, you can't use more than 1 of the same Pokémon or Pokémon forme, Team Preview is enabled, you can't use OHKO moves
Since I am not on council I can't tell you for certain, but the impression I got is that people were unhappy with old suspect voting system and the council only version. This system seems to be a mesh of both, working off the benefits of both systems (involving the community + control on what is being voted on). This brings me to the second part of your question. The council chooses what is suspect for the round, and sets the deadlines/ladder requirements.
I'm having a team building issue I'd like help with, specifically regarding the last member of my team. My current lineup is: Defensive Politoed / Ferrothorn / Tentacruel / SubDD Gyarados / Sceptile. I've been cycling through a few members for the final spot but I'm having trouble picking one. Basically the last team member has to meet these requirements:
1) Capable of using a Choice Scarf effectively. I don't have any priority and I can't depend on Politoed's Perish Song to reliably beat speed-boosting sweepers, especially if there's more than one.
2) Synergize with rain. Sort of obvious. It doesn't' need to be an abuser, but Fire types and the like are probably out of the question here.
3) Decent versus Sun. This is the tricky one. With a Rain balance team like this it's difficult to fit a Sun check in along with all the standard support, and it doesn't help that some of the best ones, like Landorus-I, don't work well in Rain.
Yeah I probably should have mentioned this, but I hate Genesect with a passion and find it incredibly cheap. If there's another option I'll take it, even if it's slightly inferior.
1) Capable of using a Choice Scarf effectively. I don't have any priority and I can't depend on Politoed's Perish Song to reliably beat speed-boosting sweepers, especially if there's more than one.
2) Synergize with rain. Sort of obvious. It doesn't' need to be an abuser, but Fire types and the like are probably out of the question here.
3) Decent versus Sun. This is the tricky one. With a Rain balance team like this it's difficult to fit a Sun check in along with all the standard support, and it doesn't help that some of the best ones, like Landorus-I, don't work well in Rain.
Yeah I probably should have mentioned this, but I hate Genesect with a passion and find it incredibly cheap. If there's another option I'll take it, even if it's slightly inferior.
"Need a Scarfer? Why not Zoidsect?"
But seriously, Genesect is practically THE end-all, be-all Scarfer. A lot of people in the general BW2 metagame thread have been testing him out on dedicated stall teams and they've said he's helped.
But seriously, Genesect is practically THE end-all, be-all Scarfer. A lot of people in the general BW2 metagame thread have been testing him out on dedicated stall teams and they've said he's helped.
Another option is to use Scarf Lati@s, they both can abuse the speed by spamming Draco Meteor on everything, synergize with Rain since they get pseudo-STAB on Surf, and don't fare that bad against Sun; they resist Fire and outspeed Modest Venusaur (which despite being terrible is still somewhat common) while OHKOing (Latias need SR) with Psyshock. They can also provide other kind of utility via Trick / Memento / Healing Wish (probably not Memento since it's pointless on Stall) if your team need some.
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