NOC Fallout New Vegas NOC [GAME OVER - Wastelanders Win]

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i don't understand how anyone reads von's posts and can go "yeah man that is a well-formulated argument that makes logical sense!"

like

"When pressed about the Cancerous lynch, rather than defend himself, he tells everyone that I was never against it."

this is untrue given that you never pressed me on shit


"After it takes an eternity to expose his lie, he twists his argument to being about how I should have tried harder to prevent the lynch, like I should have flown to people's houses and typed no lynch into their computer or something."

this is a blatant misrepresentation of what i was saying at all so either von reads at the first grade level (maybe too generous) or is mafia and recognizes that a villager who truly felt the cancerous lynch was bad would have done more to stop it which you did not. you haven't exposed any lie whatsoever lol.

"The pattern is obvious; he's trying to throw the blame for his lynch on someone else. But the sheer lengths he has gone to for this is staggering."

wat - what do you mean "sheer" lengths. i've barely done anything this day except argue with your backwards logic (considering that i have v. little incentive to do much else given that no one is paying attention to my posts)

"We're lynching him for his Day 2 behavior, and for the fact that he instigated and provided much of the bad logic for the Cancerous lynch (and is now lynching Pokeguy for the same reasons)."

Dude you literally make no sense. You sit here and use sensationalist language to make up for the fact that ultimately you don't pay attention to anything I say or actually try to have a constructive dialogue. BTW this right here is a blatant lie considering that I said I would vote pokeguy purely for self-preservation purposes. i explicitly said that i did not really like a pokeguys lynch. for someone who routinely calls people liars, you are clearly lying as justification for a lynch.

von is literally making up shit that didn't happen to lynch me. it looks really weak - i'm sure there's a case for me, but when von says im mafia due to 1. "lying" (when he hasn't even expressed what the lie was) 2. due to starting a lynch day 1 (which doesn't make sense either because villagers are supposed to try and lynch mafia which I did [notwithstanding "bad logic" but evidently von didn't give enough of a shit to defend cancerous even while "knowing" it was a bad lynch])

his willingness to lynch me after someone proposes it is pretty scummy as well considering i have been "blatantly lying" this whole time but as soon as amianki proposes it, it becomes ok? what?
 
As much as PokeguyNXB needs to contribute more he is probably one of the worst lynches at the moment. I feel like some people are taking the easy way out by casting votes for sunny and Pokeguy so they don't have to deal with the defenses of more experienced and active players.

I still hate that we're just brushing off the HD power role issue but obviously I'm not convincing anyone so it'll be fun when that bites us in the ass later.

Some random thoughts:
After today I am pretty sure Celever is town because of his whole argument against Haunted Diamond but then retracting it when he realized it didn't hold much weight. I feel like he would have continued to harp on me (like von is doing) if he is mafia and not really try to look further.
vonFiedler why did you ignore the part of my post where I ask you talk to about the Cancerous lynch? What is stopping you?
I really don't know how to feel about vonFiedler and Amianki. It doesn't make any sense that they haven't branched out from their Day 1 escapades and seem to be limiting discussion severely to me and Jalmont. Von especially is pretty ridiculous when he keeps saying over and over again that we need to look into the Cancerous wagon but provides nothing new from it.

Oh hey look von posts yet another post that mentions me and Jalmont I sure am glad he's utilizing the Cancerous bandwagon to cover new ground!!!

vonFiedler said:
When pressed about the Cancerous lynch, rather than defend himself, he tells everyone that I was never against it. After it takes an eternity to expose his lie, he twists his argument to being about how I should have tried harder to prevent the lynch, like I should have flown to people's houses and typed no lynch into their computer or something. The pattern is obvious; he's trying to throw the blame for his lynch on someone else. But the sheer lengths he has gone to for this is staggering.
From what I remember, I think you're messing up the chain of events to make Jalmont look bad here. IIRC, he called you out for claiming to be adamantly against the Cancerous when there was nothing "adamant" about it. You argued with him that you thought he was wrong but you never "pressed him about the Cancerous lynch". Don't act like his response to pressure was to attack you, because THAT is manipulation. You didn't even mention him until he brought up valid points against you/ It wasn't until fairly recently that you said you'd be willing to vote for Jalmont. Stop misconstruing the story. You say that I manipulate things (which I have yet to see you prove btw) when you do it very overtly just to make Jalmont look bad.
 
Sunny voting Pokeguy instead of me when he has a wagon and I don't is pretty weird? His opinion on the two of us is basically the same (even though I've been doing stuff while I've been around so his opinion on me kind of makes me feel like isn't reading the game) so idk why he thinks adding another vote to the same wagon is better then trying to get answers out of me? It just feels like a really easy vote imo.

Spiffy, what do you think of this?

I was going to say something about the post-restriction now being mod-confirmed but I forgot what it was.
 
Serious Bananas I think that's a fair point and warrants an explanation from sunny004

I really want everyone to post their thoughts about von given his recent attempt to misconstrue a story to get people on his side. Or at least just realize that he's spewing BS.

Either way I still think Fatecrashers is the best lynch today as his grand defense to my vote was:
Fatecrashers said:
seriously fuck spiffy but

lynch PokeguyNXB
To be fair, he's probably not convincing me otherwise anytime soon. But seriously, I don't see how people see him as townie. People that have town reads of Fatecrashers (von, Amianki iirc) please explain why.
 
Current mafia read:
PokeguyNXB: Overall very inactive, but a few things catch my eyes about him:
1) Bandwagoning into the popular lynches,
2) Lack of any real defense except: You guys have said everything already...
3) When called out, he readily conforms to everything everyone says (evident in his latest posts and vote changes)
4) It doesn't help at all that his 3 townreads are the people who haven't lynched him.
Spiffy, give your opinions on this too. Also stop bringing up the claiming issue every time since you just keep ignoring me and others when we bring up some fair points. Do you need quotes?

Edit: (more cowbell i'm doing my best not to forget, i guess i'm just not used to it D:)
"Hi everybody! I'm the village announcer! While I'm sad to see the Safeguard go, judging by how the day went, it could so easily have been me instead, so here's hoping we don't repeat the same mistakes tomorrow!"
 
vonFiedler why did you ignore the part of my post where I ask you talk to about the Cancerous lynch? What is stopping you?

Because I want others to talk about it and you know that. You're talking shit again, and that angle was obvious when you first posted that sentiment. I've clearly said my piece.

I really don't know how to feel about vonFiedler and Amianki. It doesn't make any sense that they haven't branched out from their Day 1 escapades and seem to be limiting discussion severely to me and Jalmont. Von especially is pretty ridiculous when he keeps saying over and over again that we need to look into the Cancerous wagon but provides nothing new from it.

Branch out to what? Three targets isn't enough for you? Nice to see you've evaded me calling you out on calling that tunneling and merely reformated the same argument. I'm not going to lynch Pokeguy. Why has been made clear. If you want me to focus on someone else, provide a single better target.

From what I remember, I think you're messing up the chain of events to make Jalmont look bad here. IIRC, he called you out for claiming to be adamantly against the Cancerous when there was nothing "adamant" about it. You argued with him that you thought he was wrong but you never "pressed him about the Cancerous lynch". Don't act like his response to pressure was to attack you, because THAT is manipulation. You didn't even mention him until he brought up valid points against you/ It wasn't until fairly recently that you said you'd be willing to vote for Jalmont. Stop misconstruing the story. You say that I manipulate things (which I have yet to see you prove btw) when you do it very overtly just to make Jalmont look bad.

My understanding from your posts is that even before I did, Celever launched into a tirade about how everyone who voted for Cancerous was mafia or something. Then I posted saying that we should examine people who voted for Cancerous, especially bandwagoners (you) and instigators (Jalmont).

You say that I did NOT apply pressure, even though;
A: In previous posts you called both Celever and I out on applying pressure regarding the subject
B: You have whined multiple times that (and in spite of) you had the MOST reason to lynch Cancerous because of this pressure. Why you felt you had to say it so often if you truly had the best reason when I was trying to reach out to EVERYONE is telling.

I didn't even mention him? Did I not tag him? Did I not say the instigator should be looked at? Did Amianki not come to the same conclusion?

Lies on top of lies on top of others lies.
 
no amianki said this: "Jalmont: This post is really scum. It's nitpicky and trying to force a case with stretched logic and strawmans."

you said that i went to "sheer lengths" or whatever to keep up a "lie" and that i'm voting pokeguy for the same reasons as cancerous (which is an actual lie)

EVERYONE IS LYING OMG LIES LIES LIES

lol give me a break
 
vonfiedler is unwilling to vote me until amianki is - but yet he claims that i've been blatantly lying the whole time????? why does he need the support of amianki to decide "oh yea this guy is clear mafia hahaha so e z"

???
 
vonFiedler you're great at picking my posts apart. Why don't you respond to Jalmont's?

Pay special attention here vonFiedler: Other than tagging Jalmont among others for being on the Cancerous wagon, (which isn't really you "calling him out" as you claim) the first time you mention Jalmont is here:
vonFiedler said:
Are players not now fairly certain that Amianki and Jalmont (I could toot my own horn too, several players would) are village?
where you HEAVILY FUCKING IMPLY THAT YOU THINK JALMONT IS TOWN. Holy shit you're SUCH A LIAR. You were not calling Jalmont on lies early this day, you were proclaiming that he is village.
LIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIES

vonFiedler said:
A: In previous posts you called both Celever and I out on applying pressure regarding the subject
No, I called you out for trying to limit our focus, which you have really been succeeding at today.
LIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIES

vonFiedler said:
You have whined multiple times that (and in spite of) you had the MOST reason to lynch Cancerous because of this pressure. Why you felt you had to say it so often if you truly had the best reason when I was trying to reach out to EVERYONE is telling.
Because you keep bringing it up as something scummy about me when it should be obvious that that was my only fucking option.

I want to hear from rssp1 Serious Bananas Amianki Fatecrashers Haunted Diamond about what has surfaced about scumFiedler's twist of the story to make it convenient for his argument.
 
Fate is probably a reasonable lynch because being around and not doing anything is infinitely worse than not being around to do anything? I don't really remember anything Fate past super earlygame to be honest even though he's been posting fairly frequently which is kind of weird.

I swear I clicked post on this an hour ago and it didn't send? I'll reread late D1 now.
 
Stuff from late D1:

lol how do you know it was a role power claim? If anything, it just proved how baseless and uncertain your lynch on me is.

This post is really dodgy after reading back through. HD heavily implied he had a power role so I'm not sure why he decided to go "lol maybe I don't have one" if he was so open to saying that he did today.

Most likely Cancerous/Celever

I'm still sifting through the nightmare known as the last 18 pages so I'll provide reasons soon.

(These are Sunny's scumreads late D1.) This bugs me because it implies that he hasn't really been reading yet knows who he's going to be suspecting anyway? And there's no way a townie would know what their reads are probably going to be before they do that. Idk, maybe I'm putting too much stock into this, but it feels really weird.

I'm not feeling a Cancerous wagon right now. Haunted.Diamond is leaning scum, but there's other players I'd rather lynch today.

iirc Amianki switches over later so this is kind of strange? I need to look at the switch when I get there.

I don't actually have any Von quotes, but my main issue with him is that he didn't really try to stop the Cancerous wagon until he was pretty much dead (considering he'd been hammered) and even then he only really called out Spiffy instead of the influx of other voters, which doesn't make much sense to me. The overnight change from Cancerous being a weak lynch to everyone voting him being scummy is also kind of jarring. So yeah I don't really like Von atm.
 
This post is really dodgy after reading back through. HD heavily implied he had a power role so I'm not sure why he decided to go "lol maybe I don't have one" if he was so open to saying that he did today.
.
I had some long posts in response to Butteredtoast regarding this matter, from post 676 to 678 (page 28)

edit..: "Hi everybody! I'm the village announcer! While I'm sad to see the Safeguard go, judging by how the day went, it could so easily have been me instead, so here's hoping we don't repeat the same mistakes tomorrow!"
 
Also about that matter Spiffy, I'm waiting to see von's response.

"Hi everybody! I'm the village announcer! While I'm sad to see the Safeguard go, judging by how the day went, it could so easily have been me instead, so here's hoping we don't repeat the same mistakes tomorrow!"
 
spiffy that was my response to your vote on me because your main complaint this time seemed to be 'look at him posting stuff without cementing his views with a vote!' so you want a vote? there was my vote to put pressure on pokeguynxb, the reasoning for which i gave maybe a page back if pokeguynxb had bothered to look, but i expect he hasn't what with him characterised as apathetic and lazy and all, what i didn't anticipate however was a bandwagon suddenly springing up on pokeguynxb, and i unvoted because i didn't want a sudden mislynch biting us in the ass, right now i think that the bandwagon that suddenly formed deserves a closer look

and spiffy remember when on day 1 you created a bandwagon relationship between me and haunted when nothing of the sort existed? how's that for manipulating facts?

also serious bananas there's a difference between role power claim and a power role claim, i am not sure if i'm reading too much into bad english but it seems to me that haunted was able to claim a power role without revealing what that specific power is, and that post you quoted was in response to what he perceived as spiffy trying to guess his power

but looking at haunted's response to buttered, it seems he admits that the power role claim was a desperate self preservation tactic, and his unwillingness to confirm today is about confusing the mafia, that's how i read his responses anyway

as for the von/jalmont thing, i will have to start reading from towards the end of day 1 again, but having to wade through that cesspool of personal attacks really strains my brain
 
vonFiedler you're great at picking my posts apart. Why don't you respond to Jalmont's?

Did he not say that if multiple people voted for him that he would make a final post? Now he's made several. I feel ripped off, frankly.

Even though he was always lying, and you're willing to run with that lie, it's not that Amianki voted for him that made me vote as well. It's that Amianki made an argument for voting for him, and I agreed with it.

where you HEAVILY FUCKING IMPLY THAT YOU THINK JALMONT IS TOWN. Holy shit you're SUCH A LIAR. You were not calling Jalmont on lies early this day, you were proclaiming that he is village.
LIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIES

That was then. Then is not now. Then (post #547) is before Jalmont started lying today (post #647). That's literally one hundred posts difference. Do you understand how time works? Cause and effect maybe? Are you reading the posts like one would watch Memento?

No, I called you out for trying to limit our focus, which you have really been succeeding at today.
LIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIES

I'm making a point of keeping the last "sentence" in as I feel it works also as a qualifier for your own statements. For instance:

Not opposed to a von or Celever lynch either atm. Especially with their whole "OMG THE CANCEROUS LYNCH WAS SO BAD THE MAFIA MUST BE AMONG THOSE WHO LYNCHED shtick.

You two are acting so cornered right now it's giving me the giggle fits.

Fatecrashers said:
and spiffy remember when on day 1 you created a bandwagon relationship between me and haunted when nothing of the sort existed? how's that for manipulating facts?

Quoted for EXTREME truth.

Serious Bananas said:
I don't actually have any Von quotes, but my main issue with him is that he didn't really try to stop the Cancerous wagon until he was pretty much dead (considering he'd been hammered) and even then he only really called out Spiffy instead of the influx of other voters, which doesn't make much sense to me. The overnight change from Cancerous being a weak lynch to everyone voting him being scummy is also kind of jarring. So yeah I don't really like Von atm.

I've already provided time stamped evidence that I was on several occasions against a Cancerous lynch, including before the sudden hammer. It was Celever who said that everyone who voted for him was scum, not me. I wanted people's input on the lynch in general.
 
come to think of it, i really disagree with spiffy's call for for everyone to vote so their views on people are really clear or whatever, and i don't understand how that's preferable to people just posting their opinions on people, sure you say don't vote if it would cause a majority, but unless everyone suspects a different person, backing their opinions up with a vote means an environment where the mafia can more easily form a bandwagon, because there will always be one person with the most votes on him, and then all it takes is some lazy villager skimming through the thread (god knows we have some of those) to go 'everything here makes sense' and hammer in majority
 
unvote
vote vonfiedler

again for self-preservation purposes i will change my vote but in thinking about how a villager would react, i just can't put myself in von's shoes and see a way in which his behavior makes any sense as a villager.

vonfiedler can you please address lying about the reason i voted pokeguy. thanks dude
 
Fatecrashers said:
and spiffy remember when on day 1 you created a bandwagon relationship between me and haunted when nothing of the sort existed? how's that for manipulating facts?
I did this earlier on but clearly I have to repeat myself so you guys can't rewrite history in an attempt to demonize me.
Post #327:
Fatecrashers said:
so haunted diamond if you were looking for a reason, i guess it would be that cancerous was trying to skate by with the bare minimum even after getting called out for no contributions

unvote jalmont
vote cancerous
Post #331:
Haunted Diamond said:
Yeah, tbh there's something to it. (i've been reading all his posts in the last pages)
unvote Jalmont (i have my eye on you) Vote Cancerous.
Your voting patterns are nearly identical outside of RVS as well. Don't act like I was lying when the connection was clear as fucking day. It may not have resulted in anything that fruitful but it's so obvious that IT WAS THERE.
von even admitted that I hadn't lied:
vonFiedler said:
I can't say that you lied in that post. But it does seem you formatted in a way so as to create that pattern between HD and Fatecrashers, and then you went on and talked about that connection quite a bit.
Yet he conveniently disregards this when he sees that lying about it will help his cause!!! Also his stupid "format" argument is such a cheap way to try and get around the issue that he lied about me.

vonFiedler said:
Did he not say that if multiple people voted for him that he would make a final post? Now he's made several. I feel ripped off, frankly.
Nice excuse. Clearly you have nothing to say to Jalmont because you know everything he's saying is true.

vonFiedler said:
That was then. Then is not now. Then (post #547) is before Jalmont started lying today (post #647). That's literally one hundred posts difference. Do you understand how time works? Cause and effect maybe? Are you reading the posts like one would watch Memento?
Then why did you retell the story like you suspected him the whole time?
vonFiedler said:
When pressed about the Cancerous lynch, rather than defend himself, he tells everyone that I was never against it.
This in particular heavily implies that you were pressuring Jalmont from the beginning which is not true.

Fatecrashers said:
come to think of it, i really disagree with spiffy's call for for everyone to vote so their views on people are really clear or whatever, and i don't understand how that's preferable to people just posting their opinions on people, sure you say don't vote if it would cause a majority, but unless everyone suspects a different person, backing their opinions up with a vote means an environment where the mafia can more easily form a bandwagon, because there will always be one person with the most votes on him, and then all it takes is some lazy villager skimming through the thread (god knows we have some of those) to go 'everything here makes sense' and hammer in majority
I would be THRILLED if the mafia were that transparent. It makes my job so much easier! Tell me Fatecrashers, why would it be an issue if the mafia all jumped on one guy and mislynch him? How's this even a problem?
 
obviously the mafia would be more careful than that, but would it not be identical to the mess we have today? there must be mafia behind the cancerous lynch but where oh where could it be?
 
Fate please explain why you said this when it wasn't true:
Fatecrashers said:
and spiffy remember when on day 1 you created a bandwagon relationship between me and haunted when nothing of the sort existed? how's that for manipulating facts?
 
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