Suggestions for OM Improvement

Ransei

is a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributor
Other Metas Leader
OP stolen from the previous gen thread.

This thread is meant to mimic some of the "New Direction" thread's functionality from the ORAS forum. Essentially, we want a place where people can post with suggestions on how to improve Other Metagames. This community is full of people with creative ideas, so it is silly for us not to solicit your input. That said, just because you provide a suggestion does not mean we'll implement it.

Here's the rules/expectations for posting in this thread:

1) We (the moderation team) will read everything that is posted here, but we will not respond to every suggestion posted. We'll implement suggestions we agree with or things we think will help OM as a whole.

2) Sarcastic posts will not be tolerated. This thread is for serious suggestions that you think can improve the community.

3) Do not make suggestions that go above your level of authority.
e.g. don't post about "promote x to mod" or "make <insert meta> a ladder". These are things we put a great deal of thought into and have well-formed opinions/ideas on. If you have a suggestion and you're unsure about whether it violates this rule pm me about it on PS before posting.

4) It is fine to comment on another suggestion to offer feedback, but your post must be substantive! No one-liners. Like a post if you agree with it and don't have anything to add.

Remember, your posts should be suggestions, not demands; and the content of your post should highlight why your suggestion would improve OM in general, not just a specific sub-community.
 
For OMs that alter base stats, like Mix and Mega, Cross Evolution, or Scalemons, could a Pokemon's new base stats be displayed in the teambuilder? If there's already a way to do this, I couldn't find it, and it isn't fun to have to use calculators or chat commands every time you want to see your stats outside of battle.

I was originally going to suggest the creation of a separate OM teambuilder tool that would adapt to multiple different OMs, but my main motivation behind that was to have someone create a builder that makes Chimera 1v1 less of a headache. Upon reflection, asking someone to just go do that seemed... assholish.
 
Can we maybe have the most popular OM’s in teambuilder alongsides the tiers? That way it isn’t a headache to build for tours or challenges with friends, and you don’t have to click that “Show All Teams” and search 5 mins for your team. I’m sure a lot of ppl would appreciate it, and you don’t wanna be dq’d while you’re online right?
 

drampa's grandpa

#BlackLivesMatter
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
Can we maybe have the most popular OM’s in teambuilder alongsides the tiers? That way it isn’t a headache to build for tours or challenges with friends, and you don’t have to click that “Show All Teams” and search 5 mins for your team. I’m sure a lot of ppl would appreciate it, and you don’t wanna be dq’d while you’re online right?
I'm a bit confused by this one. Tiers that are on the server ARE in the teambuilder. What did you want added?

For OMs that alter base stats, like Mix and Mega, Cross Evolution, or Scalemons, could a Pokemon's new base stats be displayed in the teambuilder? If there's already a way to do this, I couldn't find it, and it isn't fun to have to use calculators or chat commands every time you want to see your stats outside of battle.

I was originally going to suggest the creation of a separate OM teambuilder tool that would adapt to multiple different OMs, but my main motivation behind that was to have someone create a builder that makes Chimera 1v1 less of a headache. Upon reflection, asking someone to just go do that seemed... assholish.
While I doubt it's possible for Mix and Mega as everything goes in with it's regular base stats, otherwise I love the sound of this and hope it's possible. I would also love to be able to see accurate Speed in the tool-tip in battle, because it would save a ton of time.
 
I'm a bit confused by this one. Tiers that are on the server ARE in the teambuilder. What did you want added?


While I doubt it's possible for Mix and Mega as everything goes in with it's regular base stats, otherwise I love the sound of this and hope it's possible. I would also love to be able to see accurate Speed in the tool-tip in battle, because it would save a ton of time.
I mean, something like gen 7 PH or tier shift and stuff, that’s not in the teambuilder is it? I said OM’s and not tiers lol...
 
Hello everyone! I might get a lot of heat because of this. I generally avoid confrontation, but I feel like this needs addressing.
While he may have many merits, the way The Immortal handled the steps preceding this OMPL was too opaque for us not to deserve better.

It boils down to a lack of transparency: Apparently, as other users (Pigeons, sorry to put you on the spot) have stated, OMPL is one of the only PL's where a manager/participant has such an impactful influence on the decisions that take place before the official announcements. TI can plan the rules, act as a consequence before anyone even knows them (a pre-emption right that should not exist, in theory), and then modify them if the result of his actions does not correspond to his expectations.
This may seem like an ad hominem attack to TI, but that is not the goal. He puts an amount of time and effort on Other Metagames and PS that goes beyond what most of us ever will, and probably never gets enough recognition and rewards for doing so. Furthermore, while what he has done may seem "sneaky", I am a firm believer of the criminological opportunistic theories. Simply put, if a person is placed in a position of taking profit, they will act as an homo economicus and exploit their advantageous situation, before accounting for morality. So what he did is only human. As such, let it be clear that I am not calling for condemnation.
What I am asking is that the leaders of this community work out a more balanced, transparent formula for our beloved PL, that may avoid these imbalances in next editions. As for what may aid in this regard, I am clueless as of yet, but I feel like this needed to be addressed publicly.

You might delete this post, yet again. I just suggest that before you do, you strongly consider that you may be in the wrong. I am a complete nobody, on Smogon, but I am known for striving to do the right thing, both here and in real life. No-one has put ideas into my head. Consider as well that it is not the most coherent response, to delete a post that is addressing a potential abuse of powers.
Thank you for your hard work, in any case.

Edit: You know what? Forget I even said anything. Nothing will ever change here, anyways.
 
Last edited:
Hello everyone! I might get a lot of heat because of this. I generally avoid confrontation, but I feel like this needs addressing.
While he may have many merits, the way The Immortal handled the steps preceding this OMPL was too opaque for us not to deserve better.

It boils down to a lack of transparency: Apparently, as other users (Pigeons, sorry to put you on the spot) have stated, OMPL is one of the only PL's where a manager/participant has such an impactful influence on the decisions that take place before the official announcements. TI can plan the rules, act as a consequence before anyone even knows them (a pre-emption right that should not exist, in theory), and then modify them if the result of his actions does not correspond to his expectations.
This may seem like an ad hominem attack to TI, but that is not the goal. He puts an amount of time and effort on Other Metagames and PS that goes beyond what most of us ever will, and probably never gets enough recognition and rewards for doing so. On the contrary, just attacks from ingrates, like myself. Furthermore, while what he has done may seem "sneaky", I am a firm believer of the criminological opportunistic theories. Simply put, if a person is placed in a position of taking profit, they will act as an homo economicus and exploit their advantageous situation, before accounting for morality. So what he did is only human. As such, let it be clear that I am not calling for condemnation.
What I am asking is that the leaders of this community work out a more balanced, transparent formula for our beloved PL, that may avoid these imbalances in next editions. As for what may aid in this regard, I am clueless as of yet, but I feel like this needed to be addressed publicly.

You might delete this post, yet again. I just suggest that before you do, you strongly consider that you may be in the wrong. I am a complete nobody, on Smogon, but I am known for striving to do the right thing, both here and in real life. No-one has put ideas into my head. Consider as well that it is not the most coherent response, to delete a post that is addressing a potential abuse of powers.
Thank you for your hard work, in any case.
It’s people like you that brighten up this community.

Go GManSour, you are not sour in my book! And towards TI, I like your work, but he has a point that cannot be rounded out with “I disagree” opinions. He makes sense, and I am officially hash tagging this the most #Loreal post of the thread thus far. Sorry Ransei’s OP.

It took gull to write what he did, and still do so respectfully, while using strong grammar and punctuation in this short-hand digital text world.

Anyways, an idea for improving OMs, would be better promotion.
On Topic: Gen 8’s Dexit officially lowered the playerbase for PS!, and the Active Thread posters (not just lurkers AKA Read-but-do-not-posters) our OMs forums has long since hoped for. We need a new way to promote OMs! (Not referring to myself here with the !)

Eventually anything that is or becomes an OM will just be seen as another “Well, that’s cool and all but who actually plays it?” And I am starting to feel that even big OMs like BH are now treated like glorified Pet Mods.

We need activity, and it’s not due to lack of players available, it is strictly due to lack of interest.

Precedents need to be ignored because what we are currently doing isn’t working. And we have to re-route our efforts.

Suggestion, poll community members in what will actually and actively get them to play.

Instead of just bringing back OMs from last gen, and modifying it with occasional suspects, we actually need the community members to say:

We can generally agree the reason for Not playing is this _______.

We can generally agree that the way to get us to Play is ______.

Its like voting, every player that could play is like a registered voter that could vote.
If people do not show up for the voting booths, well that means they are not happy with what is currently available, and thus nothing gets their vote/interest.

Let’s fix that, we need to genuinely find out what will get them to show up and post, play, and care.

The active playerbase is getting smaller. Let’s have the community declare what they need.

I am considering the OM and thread leaders to ask:
Guys, we have seen smaller numbers in players, can you, as one of the few interested thread poster, reader, etc. tell us what you believe is what is keeping others from playing?
Is it that no enough people really know of our metagame?
Is it that not enough people think it’s fun?
Is it that the metagame is too much (complex, too many things to consider) for newer players to get into?
Is it just that other Metagames are both more popular, and thus more interesting to sustain players and draw them away from our own metagame?

Ask current and ask former players why they play, or Used to play, and why the former players quit.

Many people quit upon Gen 8’s initial months alone because they view Gen 7 as the “best” generation. This is the equivalent of a voter not voting for someone upon Re-election.

Posts, views, plays, and activity at all are considered a vote to the preserved interest of a metagame.

So instead of just finding out what to do with what we have, based on the prior usual methods (like suspecting), let’s find out the bigger overall theme and issue affecting the OM community in general. Because a suspect is like a candidate changing their stance, but if they don’t like the metagame overall (or the candidate overall), then they still won’t get a vote.
 

The Immortal

is a Site Content Manageris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Programmeris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Other Metas Leader
Hello everyone! I might get a lot of heat because of this. I generally avoid confrontation, but I feel like this needs addressing.
While he may have many merits, the way The Immortal handled the steps preceding this OMPL was too opaque for us not to deserve better.

It boils down to a lack of transparency: Apparently, as other users (Pigeons, sorry to put you on the spot) have stated, OMPL is one of the only PL's where a manager/participant has such an impactful influence on the decisions that take place before the official announcements. TI can plan the rules, act as a consequence before anyone even knows them (a pre-emption right that should not exist, in theory), and then modify them if the result of his actions does not correspond to his expectations.
This may seem like an ad hominem attack to TI, but that is not the goal. He puts an amount of time and effort on Other Metagames and PS that goes beyond what most of us ever will, and probably never gets enough recognition and rewards for doing so. Furthermore, while what he has done may seem "sneaky", I am a firm believer of the criminological opportunistic theories. Simply put, if a person is placed in a position of taking profit, they will act as an homo economicus and exploit their advantageous situation, before accounting for morality. So what he did is only human. As such, let it be clear that I am not calling for condemnation.
What I am asking is that the leaders of this community work out a more balanced, transparent formula for our beloved PL, that may avoid these imbalances in next editions. As for what may aid in this regard, I am clueless as of yet, but I feel like this needed to be addressed publicly.

You might delete this post, yet again. I just suggest that before you do, you strongly consider that you may be in the wrong. I am a complete nobody, on Smogon, but I am known for striving to do the right thing, both here and in real life. No-one has put ideas into my head. Consider as well that it is not the most coherent response, to delete a post that is addressing a potential abuse of powers.
Thank you for your hard work, in any case.

Edit: You know what? Forget I even said anything. Nothing will ever change here, anyways.
It’s difficult to avoid decisions regarding tournaments. Tournament management is part of my duty and I understand how it can conflict if I am also participating. As such, while I’m making the decisions, I will no longer be participating in a managerial capacity going forward. Hope that satisfies the concern.
 

drampa's grandpa

#BlackLivesMatter
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
Please please pleas open the national dex to the mix and mega metagame!
Our metagames are based on what is possible on the cartridge, plus whatever base modification is the concept of the metagame. This will not be happening, although the first DLC is only a couple months away now.
If you wish to play National Dex OMs there is a megathread for them hosted by esteemed OM Mod berry
Here's the link: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-other-metagames-megathread.3656992/
 
Hello friends. I'm here to talk to you about a simple topic, respect. I for example, respect the people in this community, who try their hardest, all year round to make OM formats as good as they can be. Whether it be the metagame leaders, the staff, or just the overall community. Without any of these aspects, Other Metagames would not be the amazing section it's always been in my eyes. I firmly believe that the part most paramount to the section is, without a doubt, the community. Our community allows for us to have these cool unique formats that distinguish themselves so much from standard. Without the community, there's no OMs.

Anyway, as always, I'm glad this thread has made a return. I, along with many others, believe that it's fundamental that the OM community be able to have their say on important issues within the section. The first iteration of this thread was in Generation 6, under the title "A New Direction for Other Metagames". The OM community finally had a say in the input of the section, after virtually everything previously being decided by The Immortal and EV, and previously hollywood/Ryan. This was at a time where the community well, felt like a community, we all wanted and actively worked towards ensuring the section would succeed. Not to reminisce on the past, since of course this isn't exclusive to this time, but the leaders had common involvement in the section, and everyone was attempting to listen to each other. In my humble opinion, OMs was at its peak in ORAS.

Fast forward a year or so, EV stepped down as OM leader and was replaced by scpinion. A new thread was made to commemorate the new generation. The community posted here somewhat sporadically across SM and USUM. scpinion became inactive relatively early into SM and was replaced by Flint and I. We brought up and frequently discussed the ideas that the community had, whether it be in the thread or not. I loved reading the new posts and discussing them. Even as moderator of the section, I posted here a few times with suggestions I had, just to see what the community thought of them. We loved having the community interact with the leadership team, we loved hearing everyone's ideas to improve the section. I felt as if The Immortal, Flint and I were all on the same page here. That's why it always helps to see the trend of this thread existing following into Generation 8.

So you may be asking, "Chloe. Why are you bringing up the history of OM improvement in the OM improvement thread?"

Well. Because this has changed recently. The OM community used to be valued by the leadership. I would argue that this is currently not the case.

[20:56:43] &Ransei: as divided as he[The Immortal] is with the OM community
[20:56:49] &Ransei: oftentimes he is right
[20:56:56] &Ransei: and i eventually learn that
[20:57:21] &Ransei: legit the community does not know what they want or what's actually best

This does not sound like leadership listening to the community. If I'm honest, seeing Ransei say this left me appalled, because I know that's unlike him. I've known him for over five years now and this isn't how he is. So I'm confused as to what the intention was here. Does he genuinely believe TI and him don't need to listen to the community in order to have a prosperous section? More on this later.

For now, I'd argue that this is, in fact, the complete opposite of how a leader should be thinking about a section. The community overall has the best intentions and when they're listened to, the decisions made are a net positive. There's so many decisions that community have made over the existence of Other Metagames.

Here's a small sampling of all decisions the community have directly influenced. Yet for some reason, the leadership team seems to believe that the community doesn't know what's actually best.

M&M's existence as a permaladder. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/a-new-direction-for-other-metagames.3549114/post-6420645
Less popular metagames seeing the spotlight. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/a-new-direction-for-other-metagames.3549114/post-6427431
Announcing OMotM voting on Social Media. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/a-new-direction-for-other-metagames.3549114/post-6522217
Stricter OMotM voting conditions. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/a-new-direction-for-other-metagames.3549114/post-6522656
M&M analyses. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/a-new-direction-for-other-metagames.3549114/post-6524759
Reorganising metagame list. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/a-new-direction-for-other-metagames.3549114/post-6764271
VIP posts being rethought. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/a-new-direction-for-other-metagames.3549114/post-6779889
Improved post quality control. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/a-new-direction-for-other-metagames.3549114/post-6785695
More moderation. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/a-new-direction-for-other-metagames.3549114/post-6786550
Nomination process for OMotM. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/a-new-direction-for-other-metagames.3549114/post-6832332
Metagame tags. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/a-new-direction-for-other-metagames.3549114/post-6892573
Changing daily formats. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/a-new-direction-for-other-metagames.3549114/post-6937788
Not removing Leader's Choice. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/a-new-direction-for-other-metagames.3549114/post-6963929
Removing Hidden Type from daily tours. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/a-new-direction-for-other-metagames.3549114/post-7013245
Simultaneous OM suspect tests. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/suggestions-for-om-improvement.3590275/post-7152941
OM discord. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/suggestions-for-om-improvement.3590275/post-7149259
Metagame workshop. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/suggestions-for-om-improvement.3590275/post-7245138
Bring back Leader's Choice. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/suggestions-for-om-improvement.3590275/post-7268352
STABmons > Sketchmons. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/suggestions-for-om-improvement.3590275/post-7448610
Bring back Shared Power. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/suggestions-for-om-improvement.3590275/post-7713844
Better voting regulations. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/suggestions-for-om-improvement.3590275/post-7924022
Keeping M&M even without megas. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/suggestions-for-om-improvement.3590275/post-8155796
Removing rotational ladders. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/suggestions-for-om-improvement.3590275/post-8155796
BH council. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/suggestions-for-om-improvement.3590275/post-8255262
Removal of suspect polls. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/suggestions-for-om-improvement.3590275/post-8255334
The inclusion of Camomons in OMPL. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ompl-viii-commencement-thread.3661802/post-8407377

There may be a few of you with a puzzling look on your face. A few of you that really don't understand why this is such a big deal. I'd personally argue that an isolated conversation like that alone with leadership, isn't really enough to cause an adverse reaction this large. Here's the issue though.

If you'll allow me, I intend to get a little bit more personal and real than my usual posts on these threads. For those of you who don't know, despite all the dramas I've had with The Immortal in the past, I would still consider him a friend. Despite awkward events happening in the past between us, I personally believe that he's a good person and that for all the negative he does, he does a lot of good. I believe that OMs is all the better with him at the helm.

That being said however, he has flaws, like anyone else. And those flaws, when it comes to leading OMs, are sometimes a bit too much. For the last five years, this has been a recurring issue. Ignoring the pleas of the community, and making all the decisions with TI's best interests in mind. Yes, the last five years. I joined OMs in late 2014, this was an issue even back then. The Immortal was refusing to budge on certain things despite the majority of the community wanting them. This continued into scpinion times. It continued into sole leader TI times. It even continued into the times where I was involved in leadership.

Have the community tried to do something about this in the past? Yes, these issues have been a constant issue for the community to overcome. No matter what happens, it remains the same, no matter how we try to fix the problems within the section. I don't blame TI for going with his gut the majority of the time and trusting his judgment but sometimes the community does know what they want. TI being "stubborn" isn't a new thing. Previously in leadership we've had people challenge him, EV was decent in that sense because he'd stand up for the community a lot. I'd like to think I was that way too but I could never be a very good judge of that.

Having someone challenging TI's detrimental decisions has been how we've thrived as a section in the past. Currently, as you can see by the logs above there's no one like this. TI's been really quiet as of late, especially after the incident in OMPL, and hasn't really had any public involvement since in the section. He doesn't talk in the discord, rarely in the room either, and doesn't post much here in the OM forums. Making important decisions about the section while not involving yourself with the community of the section, isn't really optimal to say the least.

This ties into the lack of transparency among the leadership. Here is Gmansour20, an amazing user that leadership doesn't appreciate anywhere near enough, identifying the lack of transparency in the section three months ago. This isn't even a new thing, but it's much more evident now that there's no one in the leadership really involving the community on these decisions.

Overall, there's a massive disconnect between leadership and the general community. What can be done about this? Well, I have several suggestions that would go a long way with improving the section. 1500 words into my Suggestions for OM Improvement post, I start making suggestions. Oops.

Acknowledging the positive impact the community has on the direction of Other Metagames.
As I mentioned earlier, the community having a say in important decisions has and always will be a net positive. Look at all those posts I listed above. Can you imagine what the section would be like if for example: Mix and Mega never got a ladder and Leaders Choice never returned? The community's involvement is paramount to a healthy section. I can't possibly imagine what OMs would be like without the community constantly having a say. It's what's allowed us to survive as a section for so long.

There's additional issues with not letting the community decide things, but a main one that keeps coming up is that neither The Immortal or Ransei really play OMs. I mean, sure they might dabble every once in a while, but to be leaders of the section, they should probably have much more substantial involvement. How can you make apt decisions about OMs without playing the metagames that make up the section.

More transparency among the leadership.
I personally, along with many others, would appreciate more transparency among the leadership team. For example, other sections on the website may have weekly posts just updating the community on happenings. PU's Council Happenings is a great example of how to do this right. Of course, it would be substantially different due to us being a different kind of section, but you can understand how transparency is overall a good thing.

It doesn't even have to be a regular scheduled post. Just please, give us more information about what's happening. Communication is important here. TI has been tagged 20 times in the OM discord public channels in the last three months, and has only sent four messages. This isn't how to lead a section well.

More involvement among leadership in the section
The Immortal has posted four messages in the OM discord public channels since April. He doesn't play any OMs actively. TI's simply not active enough and he should really be more active. On top of that, as I mentioned earlier, TI and Ransei are both leaders of the OMs section, but neither really play OMs. Ransei has involvement in Pure Hackmons, and while that's better than nothing, it's really not good enough. I'd like to challenge you both to learning a permanent ladder metagame. Get more involved with your community!

Giving prominent voices in the community more of a say
On top of listening to the community more, it might be a good idea to give the people directly involved with the metagames that make up the section, for example Jrdn, stresh, and other metagame leaders more of a say in what happens in the section. They're leading some of our most important OMs, and yet they don't have much of a say in the section compared to people who barely touch OMs in the first place.

Additionally, it would be good to give them more freedom and choice. I believe I've mentioned this before, but not allowing metagames to ban Dynamax prior to the OU ban was silly. You trust them with the metagame, one in which you don't play, and then you try to restrict them from removing problematic elements. That's not at all fair. For example, I'd trust Jrdn with making much more competent decisions about AAA and AAA's future than TI and Ransei.

Conclusion
In conclusion, I believe the OM community can thrive, but only under the condition that the leadership team respects the overall playerbase. I believe respect is very important, and it goes both ways here. I've suggested a few things to solve the massive disconnect between leadership and the remainder of the community, and ideally leadership would work through each point in order to help improve the section.

I'd also like to implore more people to voice their opinions here on this thread, given that most suggestions that happen nowadays are funnelled through leadership in private discord channels, where it would be far more useful to involve the general community. Improving the section can't happen if we don't all voice our concerns. Anyway, thank you for reading, and I hope to see OMs thrive into the future.
 

The Immortal

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Other Metas Leader
Thanks for this, Chloe. You’re right in that the leadership and community need to work together for OM to thrive. We’ve taken steps in that regard, for example with the OM Classic and bringing in a new Room Owner that is heavily active in the community. That is certainly not enough, however.

I’ll briefly respond to my situation in recent months. I shut myself out of the OM Discord after my behavior. I regret my actions and could not face the OM community. I also took a step back leadership-wise at the time. I’ve reflected a lot since then, and even talked to you about it, but I need to make more of an effort to integrate back into the OM community.
 
Hello! I’m suggesting to add an extra daily tour every day, preferably at 10am UTC such that everyone in all time zones have a equal chance to play dailies and compete for the Star player rank. Currently, the only daily tour happens at 10pm UTC every day, meaning that most people living in GMT+2 to GMT+9 are likely unable to play due to being night time for them. For example, I’m never going to wake up at 6am and play the daily. By adding a second daily each day which rotates every 12 hours, it’s made fair to all players that they all have a chance to compete. I’m by no means an experienced player, but I believe that this simple suggestion would greatly benefit everyone from the unfortunate time zones, to veterans and newcomers alike. Another benefit is that it makes the OM Room less dead in that time, as players will be attracted to playing dailies and participate in room discussion. I hope this issue can be addressed and dealt with in the future.
 

drampa's grandpa

#BlackLivesMatter
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
Hello! I’m suggesting to add an extra daily tour every day, preferably at 10am UTC such that everyone in all time zones have a equal chance to play dailies and compete for the Star player rank. Currently, the only daily tour happens at 10pm UTC every day, meaning that most people living in GMT+2 to GMT+9 are likely unable to play due to being night time for them. For example, I’m never going to wake up at 6am and play the daily. By adding a second daily each day which rotates every 12 hours, it’s made fair to all players that they all have a chance to compete. I’m by no means an experienced player, but I believe that this simple suggestion would greatly benefit everyone from the unfortunate time zones, to veterans and newcomers alike. Another benefit is that it makes the OM Room less dead in that time, as players will be attracted to playing dailies and participate in room discussion. I hope this issue can be addressed and dealt with in the future.
An extra daily tour would be nice, and even out the timezones, but we would have to guarantee that it would generally have high activity. We cannot let low activity tours consistently be the deciding factor in who gets roomstar, because then it just becomes a matter of one or two people frequently being on at that time and winning, which is already a problem with our more active current daily. If we can generate enough interest and activity in a time window on the other side of the day from our 6 PM EST daily (not necessarily 12 hours away) then we should go for it, but it would be an uphill battle.

Basically, it's unlikely, but I do not believe we would oppose it if the activity was there to support it.
 

Siamato

Formerly Matiss98
:greninja-ash: :greninja-ash: :greninja-ash: :greninja-ash: :greninja-ash: :greninja-ash: :greninja-ash:
:greninja-ash: Hey OM community! :greninja-ash:
:greninja-ash: :greninja-ash: :greninja-ash: :greninja-ash: :greninja-ash: :greninja-ash: :greninja-ash:

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Introduction

I'm writing this post to make several remarks about the current state of the OMs section, especially in terms of:
  • The organization of the section
  • Section management and tournaments
  • Tiers and councils
  • The community in general
This post is for the sole purpose of improving things and is nothing personal. I will therefore make a constructive criticism of things as they are, but I will also try to propose solutions as far as possible. I do not guarantee that this post will not offend anyone by the tone that may be adopted in it, but, with a view to dialogue, it will remain cordial and free of personal attacks on anyone. Nevertheless, my aim remains to get things moving and to make it clear that some things are not right.

I have already personally contributed a lot to the OM community, notably through the development of an important French OM community which is now quite well represented on Smogon. So I finally want to overcome the language barrier to offer what may be my last contribution to OMs and Smogon. I am doing it for this community in which I have managed to integrate and for the good times they have given me.


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Other Metagames section

What is an OM?
An OM makes broad changes off a consistent rule (or small set of rules). For example, introducing a new mechanic (Pokemon have the type(s) of their first two moves - Camomons) or providing access (Pokemon can use any ability - Almost Any Ability). Pokemon that become extremely powerful if allowed to have this new element are not granted special accommodation to remain legal by virtue of being exempted from the OM's rules. (i.e. AAA doesn't keep Shedinja legal while denying it the core gimmick of the meta - it just bans the Pokemon).
Well, let's start at the beginning lol. Here above is the definition of what an OM is according to what is written here. This definition is quite clear and precise so I won't deny it. My question is as follow:

Why are 1v1, ZU and NFE nowadays considered OMs?

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I think that's a key point that needs to be discussed and clarified.

If ZU and 1v1 metagames are "historical" OMs (which does not justify their place here anyway) what about NFE? What was the idea behind placing NFE in the OM section this generation? Was this decision made in consultation with the community?

Indeed, NFE is a tier in its own right that doesn't really fit into the definition of an OM. The tier also has a community populating its own room on Pokémon Showdown and whose player base is often quite different from that of other OMs (some OM players now play NFE but there are still a large proportion of players who only play NFE).

I obviously appreciate the NFE players that I had the opportunity to meet during the OMPL and respect their community. However, I don't understand the reason why NFE has joined the OMs roaster.

So, is it the fact that NFE has a fairly large player base and that the assimilation of those players could have brought some healthy new blood in the OM community? I don't think that is a valid argument. With that train of thought, any tiers with a "large" player base would be able to integrate the OMs. This is destroying the identity of the community under the pretext that it helps it by bringing in more players.

Is it a desire to bring communities together on a whim? You can't create a close-knit community this way be it on Pokémon, of course, or in the real world. OMs have their own identity and are based on exploiting the mechanics of the game in a different way (change of talent in AAA, change of typing in Camomons, change of stats in Flipped, TS, etc). NFE is based on a tier list and not a mechanic which, in my opinion, doesn't make it an OM (the tier list is the Pokémon "Not Fully Evolved" tier list, which fits well with a "classic" tier ban list). If you consider NFE to be an OM, then why isn't LC an OM? If it's because of the popularity of the tier, then there's an obvious policy problem here.

What I have discussed here is also true for ZU. ZU is based on a ban list that prohibits all Pokémon PU/ZUBL and therefore doesn't fit in any way the original definition stated earlier, and is thus unable to justify its spot in OMs.

1v1 is a special case and I don't know in which "class" it could fit.

This actually leads me to another question that follows from the first one, why did the UMs disappear?

In USUM, the questions I raised earlier were irrelevant because 1v1, ZU and NFE were part of a full-fledged community of UMs. And in my opinion, this OMs/UMs distinction was perfectly appropriate. So, I would like to understand why this section no longer exists.

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I propose to modify the OMs section and redefine what an OM is.

In my opinion, the OMs section should include what is not considered an official tier. That is to say tier that do not follow the "classical" rules of official tiers. This includes:

  • Anything Goes (tier based on the refusal of "classic" rules)
  • Monotype (tier based on a condition and not a tierlist)
  • 1v1 (tier based on a particular mechanic)
  • Tiers actually considered as OMs (except NFE, 1v1, 2v2 double and ZU) like BH, AAA, etc. (tiers based on new rules/mechanics)
  • LC
  • NFE
ZU should be considered in the line of "official tiers". It's indeed the continuity of the Smogon tiering system that goes down to PU. I don't understand why this is not the case yet. Is this another popularity problem? I doubt so as for comparison, PUPL has about 200 signed in players, while ZUPL has about 170 signed in players at the moment (early August). I doubt that the popularity argument is in play given the small difference.

LC and NFE are in orange because they can be seen in 2 ways. They can indeed be considered as part of the Smogon tiering system and are in fact included in the official tiers. But one can also see these tiers as a different system in their own right, as there is a restriction other than sheer viability in the selection of what can and can’t be played, justifying the time of inclusion in the OMs.

An OM would then very simply be a metagame that isn’t an official metagame.

Within the OMs a distinction must be made:

  • Metagames that are playable on the console or metagames that do not involve a change in the rules of the game. AG, Monotype, 1v1, LC and NFE are included in this definition. These could be called "Unofficial Metagames" (UMs).

  • Metagames that cannot be played on a console or metagames that involve changes to the standard game rules. This includes BH, AAA, MnM, etc. These tiers could be called "Different Metagames" (DMs).

Here is a diagram to illustrate:

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This seems to me to be the most suitable denomination system. Indeed, at the moment, the distinction between what is an official tier and what is not seems to me to be rather blurry. Here, the official tiers are those based on a system of standardized rules defined by their tierlist (Uber, OU, UU, etc.). The OMs are the metagames based on particular rules that can go as far as changing the basic mechanics of the game (talent, movepools, stats, etc).

Why does this ranking seems better to me?

  1. This ranking is independent of the popularity criterion and therefore allows to gather relatively related tiers under the same banner in a coherent way.​
  2. This ranking offers a real identity to the "DMs" community.​
  3. Inclusion of important tiers such as AG, Monotype and maybe LC and NFE within the UMs allows to create a community with a meaning and a reason to exist. This can pave the way for a UMPL for instance.​
  4. The creation of an OMs community can lead to a new OMPL tournament involving DMs and UMs communities.​
In my opinion, the distinction made between what is considered an “official metagames” and what is “not official” is too harsh. It should only be a simple classification under which something either fits or doesn't. That's why I'm against the term “official”/ “not official”. There is nothing glorifying about being in the "official metagames" group, just as there is nothing pejorative about being in the "unofficial metagames" series. It's just a way of arrange things with coherence.

This is, of course, only a suggestion that goes beyond the field of OMs in fact. But nevertheless, I'm convinced that a certain consistency must be maintained in the ranking of the tiers.


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Other Metagames (DMs) and tournaments

In this part I will consider as "OMs" what I previously defined as "DMs".

:cresselia: Camomons

Those who know me know that I have made a name for myself in the OMs by my 2 consecutive victories at Camomons tournament in SM. This metagame has been dear to my heart since then and it will be the subject of the following lines.

Why Camomons isn't an official OM?

It's incredible that a tier with a combination of committed contributors, resources and popularity is still not considered an official OM. At the moment, if I am not mistaken, it is the only OM that has an up-to-date VR (we will come back to this later. edit: in fact no because i'm too late lol). Euphonos has hosted many events that have helped to keep the tier alive and even produces explanatory videos! Finally, it's a metagame balanced among the most popular unofficial OMs (May 2020: Camomons - 37516 battles).

Moreover, Camomons was once part of the official OMs in 7G. The tier has also imposed itself in OMPL and WCOOMs in USUM as well as in OMPL this year, taking precedence over the SM BH because of its legitimacy.

With all this, I will be curious to hear what, if any, argument there is against making Camomons an official OM.

If it's popularity then I'd like to say one thing to the people who decided that:

It's not by destroying a community that you develop it! It's obvious, isn't it? However the first argument against Camomons in OMPL was its playerbase. Maybe it was true (though...) but aren't there reasons behind that? Isn't it because Camomons has lost its place in the official OMs/rotational ladder? Isn't it because Camomons hasn't been included in the Other Metas Tour Circuit? What did you do to make Camomons attractive and create a playerbase? Nothing. Quite the opposite, in fact.

So you shouldn't be surprised by a weak playerbase when you obviously don't do anything to create one.

The council also has its share of responsibility in this. The Camomons was until recently a tier without any resources, which lasted throughout the OMPL in particular. Resources are an essential need to help new players learn the tier.

And yet at the moment the Camomons community is well existing and active despite the blows it has been dealt. Perhaps it's time to stop denying its existence and give it a boost rather than rejecting it?

:toxapex: OMPL & OM Snake Draft, a problem of discussion between the community and leaders

The beginnings of the OMPL and OM Snake Draft were a bit chaotic due to decisions that did not take into account the expectations of the community.

I think it's important for the TLs to discuss this kind of event with the community in order to avoid this kind of problem in the future. The role of the TLs should not be to decide everything in their corner. No, the role of the TLs should be to organize the events discussed with the community, propose new projects to keep the community alive and developing, integrate into the community to better understand its expectations, etc.

How can the community be more involved in decisions that affect it?

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Apart from the TLs, there are many people who are perfectly capable of taking part in important decisions. Many of them are already moderators of the section or staff on OMs. But that's not all, there are also a lot of very relevant and integrated players in the community who don't hold staff positions but would be quite capable of giving a constructive opinion on certain things. I'm thinking of Jrdn, In The Hills, Andyboy and many others.

In order to make decisions in accordance with the wishes of the community, the leaders can therefore discuss with a small but integrated and representative committee of the community or address it directly through polls, which has already been the case.

I won't stay on this subject any longer because I think that the leaders have become aware of the problem and have recently demonstrated that they want to listen more to the community. So I think that things are on the right track, but we now need to create a real system of community consultation rather than just asking when we are not sure of a decision.

Moreover, Chloe already mentioned very well in her post what was wrong with the OM administration so I won't dwell on it any further. I think the message has gotten through :)

:magearna: Innovation, tournaments and ladder

This generation, I feel that there is less innovation to bring new events/tournaments to the community. This is just a personal opinion but I have the impression that this section gets locked into a routine (open, ssnl, ompl, snake) and that it doesn't try to offer something new anymore.

I wasn't particularly present on Smogon in ORAS or early SM but it seemed to me that the section was much more alive and richer than it is today. If the new generation is undeniably one of the causes of this recession, I think it's also due to the OMs section itself.

A section that no longer seeks to innovate and reinvent itself risks running to its doom. So the question is, how do we revive the section?

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I don't pretend to be able to answer this question, but perhaps I can suggest some avenues to explore?

Other Metagames Elite Challenge: This is a tournament that has already been offered in the OM FR community (under the name League Other Metagames) and is based on the concept of the Pokémon League.

Concept: Champions are designated in each OM by a team that can do so (here the councils would be able to make this choice because of their knowledge of the tier and its playerbase). The champions must of course be among the best players in the tier for this to be a real challenge. They must also be available enough to respond to the challenges of the participants without having to be available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

The objective for the challengers is to succeed in beating all the members of the elite (without defeat or with at most one defeat).

Each challenger has a single try and if he reaches a defeat or two, he is then eliminated from the tournament.

The first challenger to succeed is the winner of the tournament and the tournament ends (alternative scenarios can be considered).

Variations can be imagined with a master that can only be faced in BO3 if one has managed to pass the elite. The tournament can end once the master is defeated by one of the challengers. The challenger can also become the new master and win the tournament if he is not defeated before the end.

Durée: From one day to 1-2 months. The tournament doesn't necessarily admit a winner.

Exemple: Ligue Other Metagame FR

Ladder tournament: I don't think I'm the only one to have noticed that many OMs ladders are dying this generation. It's complicated to find a match without waiting at least 1-5 minutes. In fact, people lose interest in the ladder and it becomes even more complicated to find a match there. This vicious circle is, I think, partly responsible for the current state of the OMs ladders. Of course we must also take into account the lack of interest of many players for the 8G but also the low renewal of the playerbase.
Tiers
Games 7G (2019/06)
Games 8G (2020/06)
Percentage decrease​
BH​
97060​
16143​
83,4%
MnM​
29451​
4808​
83,7%
AAA​
6548​
3844​
41,3%
STABmons​
3546​
1210​
68,6%
NFE​
19251​
398​
97,9%

We must succeed in reviving the OM ladders. For people who discover PS and who aren't even on Smogon yet (as was my case when I was a beginner), the ladder is the first way to discover a third. It is therefore essential that the ladder is an attractive minimum to hope to attract new players.

Honestly the challenge is not simple and I don't have a miracle solution. Nevertheless maybe the use of ladder tournaments could give a new dynamism to the ladders? If the new generation is undeniably a major cause of this important disinterest, it is not a fatality to which we must give in.

The OMs room is also the showcase for the OMs community on PS and clearly has a role to play in attracting new players. I'll come back to this point below.

Resources are also important in order to help people to get started in OMs and this start is often through games on the ladder. Having more resources means encouraging people to play on the ladder indirectly. But I will come back to the problem of resources later.

Other tournaments:

Smogon focuses mainly on competition/strategy and defines its own framework to promote it as much as possible. In fact, the tournaments offered here are mainly aimed at competition and its outcome, glory. However, is the OM community limited to Smogon? No, the OM community is a whole that also thrives through PS but also on Discord. While I don't want to question Smogon's policy of seeking high level competition above all, I think Discord and PS can offer something different. Especially more "fun" tournaments in which one is looking for more the latter than the glory. Here are a few leads:

Draft League: The players are divided into pools. Each player in a pool must choose a number of Pokémon from a pre-established tierlist to form a team, and this is the pick phase. Players take it in turns to choose a Pokémon from the tierlist, so one Pokémon from the tierlist cannot be chosen by another. Once the quota has been reached for all players, the pick phase ends. Players in the same pool can then compete against each other by matching their team to their opponent's team. The tournament can end with Playoffs where the qualifiers proceed to a new pick phase.

Exemple: Draft League AAA FR

Survivor: Tournament whose goal is to be the last one still in the running. Classic, you say? Except that the players can actually challenge any of the participants at any time. Of course, it is possible to refuse but there is an obligation to play at least 1 match per week/other duration. A participant can challenge as many participants as he wants as long as the opponents are available and as long as he doesn't lose.

Multi-OMs and no official OM: An unofficial OM can only be played as a ladder every 4 months maximum. However, it is possible to make these tiers live more by means of tournaments on Smogon and thus avoid this very long hollow which does not help the metagames to develop. The OM Mashups are struggling to develop and from the beginning there was only one STAAABmons tournament on Smogon. Maybe we should try to reconsider these unique and very rich third parties?

Exemple: Inheritance, STAAABmons, CAAAmomons, BH Inverse, etc

These events could take place on Smogon but could also take place on the Discord OMs or directly on the PS OMs room. In fact, what I mentioned above concerns partly the improvement of the section but more broadly all that relates to the OMs in general. I note that recently the OM classic and the AAA tournament "Hit It and Quit It Tour" are going in this direction and it's necessary to continue on this way!


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Tiers & council

In this section we will focus on the tiers themselves and the role of the council. We have already been able to discuss this a little earlier with Camomons but this was about its inclusion as an official OM and not a discussion about the tiers itself.

As I write this post, Magearna and Cinderace have been banned from the OU very recently. Although re-suspect often takes place in OMs but OU bans are also sometimes applied.

It's not up to the OU players to decide the future of an OM under the pretext that it's OU-based!

I think it's crazy that at the moment when OMs have their own council and their own ban system, they still depend on the OU. Just because an OM is OU-based doesn't mean that what applies in OU should actually apply there. Although based on the OU initially, the tiers OU-based metagame is often quite different from the OU and the arguments for OU-based ban do not necessarily apply in OMs.

For example, Cinderace is not too strong in AAA or Camomons where the metagames are much better suited to its presence. Similarly, Magearna is less effective in STABmons and the strength of its Choice Spec set is weakened in Camomons. If these Pokémon are to be banned in OMs, it must be decided by his council and players on arguments related to tier and not to another.


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We need to rethink the link between OU-based metagames and OU.

This link must be based on the beginning of generation because a metagame must be well defined. But this link should not go further. OU and OU-based OMs must evolve independently. Of course, a suspect in OU can have echoes in OMs and councils could discuss what they think of this ban and whether it should be the subject of a suspect in OMs or whether it has no reason to be here.

So far OMs have often acted independently of the OU but this OU-OMs OU-based decorrelation should continue.

OU should no longer apply its banlist to tiers who are often very different. All decisions concerning ban/deban and thus the evolution of the tier be given back to the council and the OM players.

For that, it is necessary to have competent councils ready to do this essential work to make a tier live and lead it to the best. This brings us naturally to the next point.

Are the councils dead? (this post is a bit late because some councils woke up recently but they're late too)

I think it is legitimate to ask the question when AAA has not moved since the banning of Dragapult. The VRs are not up to date and I don't even know if they were readjusted after the banning of Dragapult. The samples are from the pre-home metagame! In MnM the VRs are not up to date for a while too (edit: it's finally the case). The samples are all outdated and each contains at least one currently banned Pokémon (although some council members have posted teams that you could simply put on the post). Balanced Hackmons are exactly the same, VR not up to date and samples not up to date although teams are lost in the thread (edit: very recent update for the latter). These are clearly the 3 big "bad students".

STABmons is doing a little bit well because despite an outdated VR and pre-dlc samples, the council has made decisions and continues to make them. Moreover, the council has shown a willingness to inform players of its actions (post) which is the right thing to do and should be widely spread!

Finally, NFE and Camomons are "good students". NFE has updated and extremely detailed VRs (compendium role) and specifies that its samples are outdated but that new ones are coming soon. Finally Camomons has very recently (at last) made a VR even if the samples are not yet present.

There is therefore clearly a tier management problem that needs to be reviewed. I'm aware that the idea of having to redo everything or a large part of it after each DLC is a nuisance but it's nevertheless necessary to make the tier live!

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Here's what, as a player, I expect from councils:

  • An updated VR as soon as possible whenever there is a significant change in the metagame (DLC). And by VR we must understand each other well. No one expects a perfectly detailed VR where all the Pokémon are classified and where there are only small adjustments to be made. No, no one would ask for that on a new metagame that's going to evolve. What I'm expecting from the councils is a provisional VR at first. And I invite you to consult this post which presents a pre-set compendium for the OU. I did not find the post but there was also a pre-VR just after the release of the DLC1 organized in the same way. We're not trying to make a perfect ranking, but any council member knows if a Pokémon will be very good, good or just viable. This first ranking allows us to open a dialogue with the community to prepare a more accurate version of the VRs once the tier is more stable.

  • Updated samples too. It's often the easiest way to begin a tier, although I personally find that you learn best by trying it out for yourself and understanding the tier bit by bit. Knowing how to build is essential and proves the mastery of a tier in its totality which also feels in-game. We're not asking for perfect samples from the best teams ever created, just playable teams.

  • A regular talk to inform the players of what the council is planning to do. This is essential to maintain the link between the tier leaders and the community and to keep a tier alive. The council can through this small monthly (for example) briefing, consult or just talk with the players to lead the tier to the best. I would like to emphasize the importance of communication between councils and players. If the council is made up of experts from the tier, it does not mean that the opinions of other players do not count. If TLs or council members are no longer able to assume their responsibility, they must resign so as not to hinder the development of their tier. It is better to have a council made up of members who are just good but motivated to keep the tier alive than a council made up of absent top players!

  • Being able to judge whether this or that Pokémon/capability/talent is too strong in the metagame (and not too strong is meant offensively or defensively). If metagames are restricted this generation by the number of Pokémon, banning defensive Pokémon that are too strong is not yet restricting the metagame, no, it's opening it up and giving more things to play. You shouldn't be afraid to ban things, or even a lot, in order to create a balanced metagame, not one that's centralized offensively or defensively and fun to play. Communication with the players is also very important in this regard (ie: if no one likes a tier, maybe there is a reason and things need to be questioned in depth).

  • Finally councils are an important part of a tier's life. They are often able to launch events to make their tier live and must be force of proposal. Euphonos has done this perfectly with Iron Chief, review & stats Camotour, youtube videos, etc... We don't necessarily ask for as much, but if you like your tier, make it live!

That concludes my comments on tiers and councils. Let's move on to the last step!


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OM community

Since I've been able to fit in, I've come to appreciate the OM community very much. It is indeed in my opinion one of the coolest community you can find on Smogon far away from the conflicts and absolute tryhard of some official tiers. So I would like to thank the community for the good times they gave me and I hope it will continue to be a pleasant place where fun and tryhard can be mixed at the right dose.

Nevertheless, it's not easy to become part of the OM community to tell the truth. I personally had this chance thanks to the recognition that my victories at the Camomons tournaments in 7G have brought me. I find it quite complicated to talk to the community in general. I don't know if it's a specific Smogon mentality or American culture but I often see people asking simple questions and nobody answering them. Whether it's on Discord or the OM room for that matter.

How do you hope to make OMs attractive when you simply ignore people you don't know?

There is clearly a communication problem when someone asks a question that everyone, especially the staff, is able to answer but people just ignore it. You can't complain about a lack of players if on the one hand the community doesn't offer the necessary resources for beginners but also doesn't try to integrate new players into its ranks. I'm not making a generalization either. There are also times when help is provided of course.

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We need to change this mentality and encourage the integration of new players.

:surskit: Other Metas room

The OMs essentially have 2 showcases. The one on which I'm writing these lines, Smogon, but also the one on PS, the OMs room. It's often one of the top 10 most visited rooms and therefore plays a major role in attracting new players. It is essential for the OMs room to be a pleasant place to learn. Here are some ideas that could improve the OMs room:

- The daily system is not very attractive. Apart from Dragonillis, I've seen few people really invest themselves in it to get the roomstar rank. I don't necessarily think we should remove this system because I think it's a good idea. Nevertheless, it should be reviewed to make it more attractive and accessible.

  • Change the time of the daily or make 2 per day (proposal already mentioned above). At present the daily comes rather late for Europeans, which often prevents them from participating (00AM fr, 00AM ger, 00AM esp, 11PM en, etc). Bringing forward the daily by about 2 hours (or even just one) seems beneficial to me so that as many people as possible can take part. And that would remain quite reasonable for Americans.

  • Change the reward. If the roomstar rank is an interesting reward, it remains insufficient to push people to participate in the daily (especially the top OM players). If I don't know what can be given here, on PS or on Discord, I still think we should try to make it more attractive. A Playoffs system can also be a track.

  • Maybe classified and reorganize the hall of fame according to the number of daily won. I find it's currently quite unreadable.

- The establishment of a leaderboard. This could be an alternative to the daily system which has the advantage of not posing any time zone problems as the tournaments are launched continuously. Coupled with this leaderboard, it would be possible to organize Playoffs every month between the first 4/8 of the ranking. The winner would get the rank ⋆ and each participant in the Playoffs would get points (according to his final ranking) for the Smogon Tournament Circuit for example (or an independent circuit linked to the OM room itself). Fun tournaments might not count in order to keep some prestige (e.g. Sectiona Servant crazy tournaments might not count lol).

- More access to Smogon resources. When launching a tournament, it would be wise and preferable to post a link to the Smogon thread linked to the tier. This won't necessarily be useful for those who participate in tournaments (although they can actually find samples there and therefore come and try!) but gives visibility to third parties and Smogon via the OMs room. This can be done by hand with a !om or !tiers or by using the bot that could be configured to execute the command itself when launching a tournament. Highlighting resources is a good way to encourage players to get serious about an OM. You might say that "OM Index" already exists on the roomintro but it's not necessarily something you always think of clicking on.

- Communication between staff, contributors and players. This is of course something that is already being done and the staff often intervenes with the players to help them in obtaining information or other. It is therefore necessary to maintain the link between the staff and the community but it's also necessary that the contributors (councils members or OMs contributors) take more part in harmless discussions about their tier. It's important to show that the OMs community is an open community that welcomes and helps newcomers to integrate!

- Innovate and reinvent themselves. It isn't a simple thing but it's certainly an essential point to develop the community. Always look for the best. The community is large and there are many people who will undoubtedly have ideas to develop the OMs room.

Finally the OMs community has one last place that also contributes to its activity and development and this is where we will end up.

:mr-mime:Discord

Discord has indeed become a platform where the OM community thrives. It is one of the main places of exchange and where it is easier to converse with veterans and keep an accessible written record of the conversations. Almost all OMs also have their own Discord on which more specific discussions between veterans of the tier can take place.

Discord should continue to be developed and become more than just a place to relay events on Smogon.

I spoke earlier about innovation. This is quite valid for the Discord OM(s) related to Smogon. Here is a list of things that could be put in place to enhance the usefulness of Discord for OMs:

- Use of bots. This is quite standard on many Discords and especially on those with many members. These can be used for moderation functions but it's more for features like auto-rank that we're interested in here.

The creation of a channel intended for bots commands (in order not to flood other chans) on which members could add certain roles through the bot (principle of auto-rank).

Here are some roles that could be interesting for members:

Tournament matchs to be notified for a tournament battle.

OMPL/Snake/OMFL/... to be notified when an information come on Smogon about a specific event/tour.

Metagame evolution to be notified for a suspect test, QB or other changes in a metagame.

Tier to be notified about an element related to the tier, example @camomons to be notified about a tour, suspect or other things. Councils can also start a conversation on Discord with players to ask an opinion with this highlight.

To name a few, here are some bots that allow "auto-rank": Arcane (via reactions on a message), Reaction roles (idem), Dyno (via custom commands such as /camomons to type on the chat, Mee6 (idem), etc.

The self-assignment of these roles only commits the members and they are therefore completely free not to assign themselves a role if they are not interested or do not consider it necessary.

- Added reward role. Always with a view to making certain events attractive, rewarding roles could be assigned by the staff. This already exists for prestigious tournaments such as Gslam or championship but is otherwise not much seen.

Here is another non-exhaustive list of possibilities:

Daily champion/Star (with specific color) to reward the current daily champion.

Past daily champion/Past star (no specific color) to reward past winners

Tournament winner (no specific color) to reward winners of an OMs tournaments on Smogon (open, ssnl, fall, camotour, etc).

Veteran (with or without specific color) to reward a long time player recognize by the community. Less prestigious than legend.

OMPL VIII/OMSD III/... winners (no specific color) to reward the members of the victorious team.

Some can be seen as detail, but adding small cumulative details can make something better.

- Others useful role. [tier] leader, [tier] council,

- Organize interactive events on Discord. This is the main advantage of Discord compared to Smogon and the OM room. It is possible to organize events in a separate channel in an interactive way. This can be anything from a quick build contest to a fun tournament. Discord can be a more open place to launch minor events that don't necessarily need to be hosted by Smogon.

This also applies to tier Discord. Councils have the right to organize small events in order to bring their Discord to life other than through announcements and discussions about the tier.

And I think I've already said a lot of things haha


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Conclusion

I have raised through this post many topics and suggested improvements. Of course, it's up to the OMs staff to decide what they think should be done or not among what I have proposed, but the OMs community as a whole also has a right to look at it. If I took the time to make this post (which is the 100th !!) it's only to improve the section and help our community by taking advantage of my experience as a former administrator of the OM FR community and former French/arcade staff.

I personally have no expectations knowing that this final post will end my journey on Pokémon for a long time if not forever. It is therefore not useful to answer this post literally because I won't be able to answer. The answer should be to the community and not to me.

Finally, I thank the community and the people I met there for the pleasant moments spent on the game and especially in OMs.

Special thanks to the guys from OM FR who form a top community for which it has been a pleasure to contribute all these years! s/o to Altthiel, Frrf, LaBalladeDesCieux and Gmansour20 for their help in english and their comments! Ce post existe en français si ça en intéresse certains ;)

Thanks to those who took the time to read this post! I hope that OMs will continue to thrive and will find their good years back,

Farewell Matiss98,

Siamato ~
 

CringeMeta

formerly We Wuz Nidokangz
Within the OMs a distinction must be made:

  • Metagames that are playable on the console or metagames that do not involve a change in the rules of the game. AG, Monotype, 1v1, LC and NFE are included in this definition. These could be called "Unofficial Metagames" (UMs).

  • Metagames that cannot be played on a console or metagames that involve changes to the standard game rules. This includes BH, AAA, MnM, etc. These tiers could be called "Different Metagames" (DMs).
This concept was specifically tried during Gen 7 (it was even called "Unofficial Metagames") and discontinued this generation. Although it seems 'simple', there is a serious conceptual problem with it in that Sleep Clause is a change to standard game rules rather than a ban (i.e. even OU should be strictly speaking considered an 'DM' under this kind of division) and many procedural ones.

I completely agree that ZU should be considered an official tier, and (considering that LC is well-established as official) NFE should be fast-tracked there as soon as possible. However, operating UMs as a kind of consolation prize instead would be a poor compromise that doesn't address that core problem, while likely creating collateral problems for other metas again.

As I write this post, Magearna and Cinderace have been banned from the OU very recently. Although re-suspect often takes place in OMs but OU bans are also sometimes applied.

It's not up to the OU players to decide the future of an OM under the pretext that it's OU-based!

I think it's crazy that at the moment when OMs have their own council and their own ban system, they still depend on the OU. Just because an OM is OU-based doesn't mean that what applies in OU should actually apply there. Although based on the OU initially, the tiers OU-based metagame is often quite different from the OU and the arguments for OU-based ban do not necessarily apply in OMs.

For example, Cinderace is not too strong in AAA or Camomons where the metagames are much better suited to its presence. Similarly, Magearna is less effective in STABmons and the strength of its Choice Spec set is weakened in Camomons. If these Pokémon are to be banned in OMs, it must be decided by his council and players on arguments related to tier and not to another.
I don't think the general premise of this criticism - that major OMs like AAA are being forcibly made to follow OU rules - is correct. AAA in particular explicitly states that it is not OU-based ("AAA's ruleset is similar to OU's; however, Pokemon and Abilities shall be banned independently of OU.") I'm not as sure about Camomons, but functionally the format doesn't use the "[Gen 8] OU" rule, and so doesn't automatically mirror OU bans (IIRC this may have changed since Gen 7). Neither seems to have been forced to follow OU in banning Cinderace or Magearna.

I think some smaller OMs may use the "[Gen 8] OU" rule, but, based on the above examples, it's most likely a convenience rather than something they have been required to do to conform to policy.
 
- The daily system is not very attractive. Apart from Dragonillis, I've seen few people really invest themselves in it to get the roomstar rank. I don't necessarily think we should remove this system because I think it's a good idea. Nevertheless, it should be reviewed to make it more attractive and accessible.
at least for me, its too much of an investment to play a tour every day
esp for oms i dont normally play
  • Change the time of the daily or make 2 per day (proposal already mentioned above). At present the daily comes rather late for Europeans, which often prevents them from participating (00AM fr, 00AM ger, 00AM esp, 11PM en, etc). Bringing forward the daily by about 2 hours (or even just one) seems beneficial to me so that as many people as possible can take part. And that would remain quite reasonable for Americans.
i remember this being a contention point somewhere, because a second, unpopulated tour per day may cause it to be even more of "who attends the most dailies" rather than of actual skill

i think that fixing time frame (maybe 2 weeks? 1 week, 2/day) would help and make roomstar more interesting by default. plus the "main" purpose of getting official oms played
 

In The Hills

is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
With the release of Crown Tundra DLC (hopefully, please god Game Freak no more DLCs) being the last major change to the generation, I think it's time to touch on two things I've been sitting on for a little bit that kind of go hand in hand. While this isn't exactly the time I wanted to address this with the chaos of early DLC2 metagames is upon us, I think it's necessary to try and kickstart some of the ideas I have earlier than later.

Lack of OMs this generation
This is an issue that we've had this generation, and it's hard to really pinpoint the exact cause for it. With more OMs receiving permanent ladders with DLC2, there's barely enough metagames for us to have 10 options for OMotM voting, as Pacifistmons frankly is completely dead and needs to be archived at some point. And looking at this pool, there's really not that many fun or exciting metagames that the wider community enjoys, which is why the same metagames typically win over and over. While one solution is to offer more fun LCotM options like Mashups and Old Gens OMs, I think regardless we need to look into increasing the total number of OMs we have this generation.

I'll attempt to get into some possible causes for this, but in all honesty I have been trying to figure this one out for months and I can't really say for certain why we've had so few OMs return this generation.
1. Lack of motivation with changing metagames due to DLC releases
I think this is a real issue that extends past smaller OMs and even OMs in general, I think it's a general issue with PS and Smogon this generation that DLC and changing metagames have killed so many people's inspiration to contribute to either website. Hopefully now that we're in an era where there's no foreseeable Pokedex changes or new Pokemon, people will again feel inspired to contribute.​
2. Focus on main OMs rather than smaller projects
Again back to the first point, it's kind of hard to point to this as part of the issue when the main OMs are almost all at a notably lower activity level than they were last generation. However, I think that at the higher level of contributions for OMs, our main contributors generally do focus on the main OMs this generation rather than trying to submit new metagame ideas/projects​
3. Lack of ideas for metagames
I'm going to touch on this a lot more later in my post, but this is absolutely not an issue at all. While we did lose a lot of fun metagame ideas in the shift to Generation 8 due to Dexit killing off metagames like Megamons, Ultimate Z, Mergemons and others while making metagames like Averagemons unfeasible, there are still plenty of previously existing OMs that are interesting, well established within the larger community, but have yet to be submitted. Perhaps the community is just not aware of how many metagames we have yet to resubmit?​
4. Lack of people willing to lead a metagame/trusted enough in the community
This is probably one of the biggest reasons for the lack of OMs this generation. So many of the metagames that don't exist this generation simply don't exist because their previous leader no longer plays, and nobody has bothered to resubmit the metagame. I don't think there's an issue of a lack of trusted people in the community; there's plenty of people that I'm sure the leadership would be happy to let lead a metagame. I think the issue here either comes from people not being motivated or willing to lead a metagame right now, or that they're just not aware that they can.​
This post is not meant to put blame on anyone though, I'm simply trying to give insight on why this problem might be occurring. Rather, I'd like to encourage the contributors of this section to get more involved by possibly look into leading and resubmitting some of these metagames that have yet to return this generation. I've compiled a list of metagames from last generation, as well as their previous generation threads. These metagames listed are just some examples of OMs that were popular last generation and unique that play with ideas that we don't really touch on with any metagames this generation.
Pokebilities: Pokebilities has always been an insanely popular metagame as OMotM, and it's baffling to me that it hasn't returned yet this generation. While I am not a fan of this metagame personally, I think that it has by far the most potential to be resubmitted and be a successful OMotM, and it's a very simple idea that attracts a lot of players and has a low difficulty.
Dual Wielding: Dual Wielding is a really interesting metagame, and it's something I've seen people in the Metagame Workshop poorly try to emulate. I think that playing with two items is something that adds a new level of fun to a tier, though this tier did take a huge hit at the loss of Mega Stones and Z-Crystals this generation. Regardless, I feel as though Dual Wielding is a metagame that could potentially succeed.
Fortemons: Breaking main tiers last time it was on the server aside, Fortemons is a super fun metagame. Adding a secondary effect to all of your moves is something so different from any meta we have right now, and I really don't get how this hasn't been brought back this generation at all, it's a really exciting meta to theorize for and talk about.
Move Equality: Move Equality is very straightforward: every move has 100BP. This meta opens up a lot of options, and is a great way to bridge newer players into OMs because there's very little to really explain. I could see this being very successful as an OMotM option.
Full Potential: Full Potential is one of those OMs that is very hard to balance, but the idea is just so fun that it's bound to be successful as an OMotM ladder. Full Potential has always attracted a large following due to its gimmick, and this generation should be no exception.
Nature Swap: Nature Swap is another simple OM that gives people a lot of freedom to try and theorize new sets and maximize what stats a Pokemon has to offer. I think while we do have plenty of stat shifting metagames, Nature Swap does set itself apart from the others and has an nice gimmick that could definitely be a great idea to mess around with this generation.

Others:
Alphabet Cup (In Submissions): Alphabet Cup is already in Submissions so I'm not going to touch on it too much, but I think that this metagame is something that interests so many people on the wider community and I hope that it gets approved.
Sketchmons: There's an obvious barrier here with the fact that Sketch does not exist in Generation 8. However, I think that Sketch was a super popular metagame and it's ridiculous that it doesn't exist in Generation 8, regardless of Sketch's existence (It's very simple to explain the metagame idea similarly to how Mix and Mega is explained this generation, especially given how straightforward Sketchmons' gimmick is). I have talked to TheCoastsOfToast some about him potentially submitting it for this generation, and I hope that he does. I do not personally like this meta at all, but it's a shame that something previously so popular would not exist due to a small issue.
Hidden Type (in some form): Now I know this is where I come off as a hypocrite considering I was the last person to lead Hidden Type and have yet to even attempt to resubmit it, but Hidden Type as it existed in Generation 7 frankly doesn't work anymore. Without Hidden Power, Hidden Type's gimmick honestly makes no sense anymore, and it was already a poor gimmick in the first place due to the lack of Hidden Power Fairy and Normal. However, a metagame that plays with a third typing would be a really nice metagame to add to OMs, and I know it's something that has been proposed quite a lot in the Metagame Workshop. There's still difficulties that have yet to be tackled here like how you would decide what your third typing is, but there's definitely a way that this metagame could return in some form. (TI had a decent idea for it a while back if I remember correctly, but I couldn't find the pms where we had discussed it.
First Blood: Finally, a metagame that did not previously exist. First Blood in the past has been a commonly rejected OM due to it being too similar to both 1v1 and OU, but I believe that with the less harsh standards on metagames, First Blood should have an opportunity to shine. Clefable had posted about it in the Metagame Workshop and would be an amazing person to lead this meta, so I hope that he submits it soon.

There's quite a few metagames I didn't even mention either like Typemons and Benjamin Butterfree, but these metagames listed I believe all could succeed as metagames this generation, given we have contributors who are interested in leading them. I am not recommending that people run to submit these metagames ASAP, but I again would like to aim at increasing the awareness within the community on this issue, and hope that people step up and get more involved in the community by increasing the amount of OMs we have at our disposal. If you are interested in submitting a metagame, make sure to do your research, this post is a good start and you can always feel free to ask me questions on how to submit. This brings me to my next point, which is:

OM Submissions
I will start out by saying that I don't really have much experience with the inner workings of OM Submissions bar submitting my tours, projects and metagames because generally my experiences with Submissions have *generally* been pleasant, rather this criticism comes from things that I have heard from others who have submitted things, as well as multiple people who work within OM Submissions.

I think that aside from the lack of transparency in OM Submissions, which I don't plan on touching on in this post for a number of reasons, OM Submissions sees a problem with low turnover rate. I'm not suggesting that expanding the team here will fix this issue (though I personally would always be willing to help out with submissions) I think that the process in which feedback is given needs to change. While from an outside perspective it has seemed to me that OMs lately have been doing a great job at pushing out new tours and projects, it's come to my attention that a lot of decent submissions go unchecked or sit with only one check from either drampa or regirock. This becomes an issue when regirock can not even approve a submission, despite arguably being arguably the most active QCer in the section. It doesn't really make sense to me to supposedly trust someone to give their feedback on OM ideas, but not allow them to approve what they're giving their opinion on. This was an issue with SectoniaServant, another active QCer as well, until he recently became a moderator for the OM forum and now can approve submissions. While this is a step in the right direction, I don't think it really tackles the issue at hand. I know personally as someone who has submitted quite a few things through OM Submissions, it is quite confusing to get feedback on a project or tour but then be told that said feedback essentially meant nothing as far as it getting approved. With 2 of the 4 of the people who can currently approve submissions being Senior Staff on Smogon and/or Global Administrators, it seems to me like allowing the entire Submissions QC team to approve or deny submissions would relieve pressure on the leaders by lightening their load, as well as make the OM Submissions process move more smoothly. I don't think this suggestion is really a big ask at all, so I hope it doesn't come off as a harsh criticism, because I think this small change would really go a long way in making the OM Submissions process less daunting and confusing to the community, as well as show the QC team that their opinions are valued.

I have high hopes for DLC2 and what it means for not just the main OMs, but OMs as a whole, and I believe that there's a lot of potential for us to appeal to a lot larger community if we add more interesting OMs to the ones we currently have. If anyone has any questions or concerns, feel free to contact me!
 

Euphonos

Resident Camomons Meteorologist, Smogon University
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Just a small suggestion on my end, but I'm thinking it should be significant to address some transparency issues about all the happenings regarding the Other Metagames department. I feel like there should be an "Other Metagames News" thread somewhere in this forum so that the OM community will be informed of all the happenings within this forum (aka tiering changes, upcoming tournaments). Just an example: upon the release of Crown Tundra, I found out Calyrex Rider Formes were banned in Camomons without us even knowing, so the "Other Metagames News" thread should be a hub for information such as those.

Hope I helped! I'm grateful to be part of this community; hoping to have this flourished even more!
 
Short post this time, but I got reminded today of something when I signed up for a Camomons tournament today that has been bothering me since all the way back in 2015, but I never really commented on it because it's not that big a deal. Why do we have 7 minute tournament autostart timers? Every other room on the sim uses a 2 or 3 minute autostart timer, this gives players enough time to join the tournament. It shows that within the first two minutes of the seven minute wait, 90% of the players who want to join join. We even see a fair few people getting DQ'd for going inactive during that wait time. It just seems unnecessarily long. I completely understand keeping it long for the daily, but for random ones that are made every now and again it'd be nice to decrease it to 2 or 3 minutes. Thank you for your consideration.
 

The Immortal

is a Site Content Manageris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Programmeris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Other Metas Leader
Short post this time, but I got reminded today of something when I signed up for a Camomons tournament today that has been bothering me since all the way back in 2015, but I never really commented on it because it's not that big a deal. Why do we have 7 minute tournament autostart timers? Every other room on the sim uses a 2 or 3 minute autostart timer, this gives players enough time to join the tournament. It shows that within the first two minutes of the seven minute wait, 90% of the players who want to join join. We even see a fair few people getting DQ'd for going inactive during that wait time. It just seems unnecessarily long. I completely understand keeping it long for the daily, but for random ones that are made every now and again it'd be nice to decrease it to 2 or 3 minutes. Thank you for your consideration.
Off course it's been there since always and I'm not justifying it existing now but the thought process was probably allowing people to get teams. Since OM includes a variety of formats, people aren't always prepared with teams. Unlike tiers which is basically a single format (plus past gens ig). I would agree that 7 minutes is too much these days and even 5 would be an improvement.
 

drampa's grandpa

#BlackLivesMatter
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
My experience has been that 2-3 minutes would be too short for less active tours. Often we see tours that eventually hit 5-6 people sit at 3 for the first 4-5 minutes. This is especially notable in the quiet hours.

7 is a lot though. 5 might be better, especially if we implement more easily accessible sample support.
 

Plague von Karma

Diolch am eich amser!
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcher
Moderator
especially if we implement more easily accessible sample support.
Not sure if this would be especially helpful or relevant to yourselves, or if you even already know, but RoA has an extensive sample team system on-site, with a r/faq command that can be used to get links to the formats of the generation. Maybe this sort of thing could be integrated in the same way for the OM room?
 

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