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Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Peterko, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. ashez

    ashez

    Joined:
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    177
    hi thanks for the quick replies :)

    my first post was rather rushed in truth due to being late for work lol....

    and i was going to post about why i didint memtion anyone i looked at etc so will go into it now:

    here is the list off pokemon i concidered using:

    nidoking - due to ability and able to use B+TB and resistance to fighting was concidered but due to low speed and and commen weaknesses i moved on.

    tentacruel - decent speed, and able to use blizzard and water attacks to beat few threats but lack of anyway to beat bulky waters. so basicly missed TB, is giga drain worth concidering? something like surf/blizzard/GD/protect?

    slowbro/king - had quick look but didnt like the low speed and shared bug weakness

    starmie - somehow this poke didnt even enter my mind, great speed and sp/a so worth looking into and brings a great way to take care of fighting types.

    dragonite - was first poke to come to mind, being able to use TB+B+heat wave which gives decent coverage but low speed of putting specially when being pounded with always hitting blizzards.

    mesprit - similar to starmie main reason for use would be to nail fighters but speed isn't the best, but think starmie better option.

    rotom - bring great stab to the team but slow and brings higher water and rock weakness.

    zapdos - slight chance of use due to got one from old streak which enjoyed using but doesnt bring blizzard to table and weak to rock/ice

    latis - main reason i'm staying away from dragons is the perfect accurecy of blizzard, but did want one to begin with due to brings perfect defensive coverage with heatran.

    kingdra - the only dragon which could fit into my team and still have work with it. can use blizzard and take care problems with stab water and possibly draco meteor.


    so from my thinking the options are -

    tentacruel - if giga drain worth concidering.
    starmie - great speed and coverage, and resists the right moves.
    Kingdra - brings the dragon (my fav dragon i might add) into the team. but lower speed and slightly less power than starmie, but added bulk, only gyarados would be problematic.

    Havent had chance to look into rock slide idea yet (cant believe i over looked it) but is there any mixed sweepers who learn both blizzard and rock slide? just a thought lol

    so there few my rough thoughts, any pointers?
  2. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Joined:
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    Hey ashez...

    Doesn't Starmie totally stand out as the best one out of those three you mentioned? It has better speed and spA than Tentacruel (80 Base SpA isn't very high). Starmie can learn Grass Knot which is arguably better than Tentacruel's Giga Drain. The only thing Tentacruel has going for him really is better Sp Def and Bug resist for Abomasnow (which Heatran can do pretty well with).

    Kingdra without rain probably isn't worth it imo.

    As far as mixed attackers go, I think your best best are Sheer Force Nidoking and Dragonite, but yah, that's where I was saying... you might as well go all special or all physical since both of them learn TBolt + Blizzard.

    Out of the things you mentioned, I think you should go with Starmie because your team will appreciate the speed.
  3. skitz0phrenic

    skitz0phrenic

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    Starmie in general is just an amazing Subway Pokemon to have on most any team. It's one of the fastest and definitely most versatile special sweepers you can use. It's also one of the few things you can use that is so versatile it can effectively use an Expert Belt if you already have a LO sweeper elsewhere.

    Like Chinese Dood said, Kingdra without rain is pretty meh. Slower and lacks as good of coverage as Starmie. It gets Dragon typing but, eh, that's pretty much it.

    Tentacruel is good for a bulkier approach, but isn't really strong enough to kill the things you will be needing to kill later on. Tenta's coverage is also outdone by Starmie as well imo.
  4. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

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    I'm bored so I'm currently trying to put together a sun team for the super multi train and I would like some help with my team.

    So far this is what I'm thinking of using:

    Team 1

    Ninetales @ leftovers
    Timid
    evs:252 speed, 252 sp att, 4 hp
    Drought

    Fire Blast
    Solarbeam/Energy Ball
    Protect
    Will-o-wisp

    Ninetales is compulsory for sun teams obviously. Fire Blast hits hard in the sun. Solarbeam is ok to use in the subway as the opposition isn't likely to predict this and switch in Tyranitar or another weather summoner to screw it over. However, Energy Ball could still be used just in case the opponent leads with Tyranitar or Hippowdon (Abomasnow should be fine). Of course, the sand summoners are probably going to survive it anyway. Still trying to decide though I'll probably use Solarbeam.

    Protect and Will-o-wisp are filler moves but they are useful. I just could think of anything else to put there.

    Sawsbuck @ life orb
    Adamant
    evs:252 att, 116 speed, 132 hp, 4 def, 4 sp def
    Chlorophyll

    Horn Leech
    Return
    Jump Kick
    Swords Dance

    This is just a boring old Swords Dance Sawsbuck. The attacks give great neutral coverage, though I might shove Wild Charge in there somewhere as a back-up water killer move (just in case Ninetales can't use Solarbeam). The evs are set so that it outspeeds everything in the subway if sun is present. Attack is maximised and the rest are put into its defences.

    This is meant to be my dedicated sun abuser though I'm worried about its frailty. I wish I had access to Venusaur...

    Team 2

    Dragonite @ lum berry
    Adamant
    evs:252 att, 252 speed, 4 hp
    Multiscale

    Outrage
    Earthquake
    Fire Punch
    Rock Slide

    This is one of the pokemon I used when I got the super single trophy (it had Dragon Dance instead of Rock Slide though). Multiscale is such an amazing ability as it essentially means that Dragonite is holding all of the type resistance berries when at full health. Very little can OHKO it. Lum Berry is compulsory because it can save it from status, including confusion from Outrage.

    I like the idea of using a dragon on this team to add some more variety, though I'm a bit worried about Dragonite's lack of speed. Maybe Garchomp or one of the latis would be better.

    Infernape @ king's rock
    Jolly
    evs: 252 speed, 252 att, 4 hp

    Close Combat
    Flare Blitz
    Fake Out
    Fling

    I stole this idea from TRE, but I'm using Infernape instead of Mienshao as it suits my team better (it is also slightly faster allowing it to outspeed and fling a few more things). Ideally, I would have fainted one of my opponents pokemon before I send this out to double flinch the other opponents team. This can provide free turns for Sawsbuck to Swords Dance, or for Ninetales and Sawsbuck to finish the opponent off. Close Combat and Flare Blitz can be used to hit hard after it's done flinching. Flare Blitz will hit hard in the sun.

    So that's what I've come up with at the moment. Now I just need to get the pokemon and try this team out. I'm sure that what I have now isn't perfect so there is room for improvement. Some other pokemon that I have been considering include Heatran, Rotom-H and Tangrowth. Does anyone have any advice on some things that I could change to make this better?
  5. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    I'm bored, so I'll comment hehe.

    Solarbeam sounds fair. If Hippo or Ttar comes in, you still have Sawsbuck Horn Leeching or Jump kicking, though... if the sandstreamer is paired with something else that outspeeds (and can probably OHKO) Sawsbuck, it might end up being a pretty tough match. For this reason I would put protect on Sawsbuck (over Swords Dance since it will rarely have the chance to do that unfortunately) as you switch something (replacing Ninetales so you can renew your drought later) in to KO your threats. So I don't think you will really be able to put a slot for Wild Charge, though that's not a bad idea to begin with.

    Wow miss is going to happen often, and you will realize that soon enough and never use it. You want something that's accurate, and w-o-w isn't that. Easy suggestion would be to put in Heatwave. Heatwave for double targetting, of course. If you are going for heatwave and still want to keep fire blast for the high damage, I suggest using Wide Lens for boosting accuracy of both moves. You really don't want a miss to ruin your streak. There's also hidden power ice for dragons or ground/rock for opposing fire types if you want a bit better coverage.

    Dragonite is interesting, but not sure you thought this through too much. The only time Dragonite will be able to use Earthquake is when Ninetales is using protect unless you don't mind its partner being killed. I agree one of the Latis might be better. Just so you know Outrage does not allow you to pick your target in Doubles. If you are using dragonite, you want Extremespeed. Otherwise, use another dragon because they are faster.

    Things I see your team having the most trouble with are:
    1) Dragons -> I've battled plenty of 4 dragon (and dragon-like) teams in double subway. If you see a Salamence (Intimidate) + Haxorus/Garchomp lead, you're in pretty serious trouble since Ninetales won't do much damage (might even be outsped), and intimidated Sawsbuck won't do a whole lot with return. Dragonite can't switch in, so it has to wait til something faints. And then... when it's in, it's just outsped and defeated. Then Infernape can't do much other than flinching one opponent.

    2) Flash Fire Chandelure... the only pokemon that can actually even hit it for noticeable damage is Dragonite, and it won't OHKO it. So if Chandelure is paired with something that can deal a lot of damage to Dragonite, you've got to be careful (perhaps something like a focus sash Froslass in the back which outspeeds your whole team if Sawsbuck already fainted or if Abomasnow changed the weather leading), though your team can probably work around this. Ninetales can have Dark Pulse too, but it might not be too easy to get a Dark Pulse Ninetales with good nature and IVs (Dark Pulse is not an egg move I don't think. It's only obtainable as a dream world special move iirc, if you want Drought with it I mean).

    Anyway that's all I can think of for now. Hope that will get you somewhere. Heatran and Rotom-H aren't bad from my experience, but not like I've used a sun team before. You really need some better way of covering dragons and chandelure though. Good luck.
  6. Zacchaeus

    Zacchaeus
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    Taken from a post in a different area:

    2drag1mag

    This is my current team for Battle Subway, and I'm still open to changing things. The only thing I've really lost to on a good run was Jynx with Blizzard and Focus Blast (everything else was a result of hax or a misplay)
    Current highest record: 59 (<- hax loss over here)

    Dragonite - Choice Band
    Adamant - 244 HP 252 Atk 4 Def 4 SpD 4 Spe (just trust me on that one)
    Outrage
    Earthquake
    Extremespeed
    Fire Punch

    Dragonite is working very well, but Extremespeed is seeing very little use

    Latios - Choice Specs
    Timid - 252 SpA 252 Spe 4 HP
    Draco Meteor
    Psychic
    Surf
    Thunderbolt

    Latios isn't working quite as good because being locked into Draco Meteor can be bad if your opponent has immediate recovery or has good special bulk, and Psychic is afraid of Dark types switching in. I might try HP Fire on Latios as well

    Magnezone - Leftovers
    Timid - 252 SpA 252 Spe 4 HP
    31-30-31-30-31-30
    Substitute
    Thunderbolt
    Flash Cannon
    Hidden Power (Fire)

    Magnezone does well until it has to fight the large amount of Steel types that run Earthquake, so I might try out Air Balloon next
  7. iss

    iss happily ever after
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    [​IMG]

    Using my VGC team (Tornadus/Terrakion/Chandelure/Hydreigon). Will post full team after Nats (or when I lose).

    edit: 91 now

    edit2: Lost on battle 95 to TR. Opposing team was Cresselia/Thundurus/Landorus and something I can't remember. Cresselia set up Trick Room, and after a BrightPowder miss and triple Protect failure, I ended up with Hydreigon v. Landorus + Thundurus. I only 3HKOed the Thundurus and 2HKOed the Landorus. Thundurus Toxiced Hydreigon, then Thunderbolted before Resting. Landorus set up Sandstorm and then KOed with a Rock Slide. Will post more tomorrow.
  8. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

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  9. ashez

    ashez

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    sorry its taken me so long to get back been busy.

    yeah i could obviously see that starmie was the stand out option for my team. there's only one problem which is putting me of starmie, and that is it'l give my team a massive weavil weakness, who was a threat b4 hand (forgot to mention him lol) specially the one with the focus sash. actually scratch that, the weakness isnt as bad as i thought, i believed weavil carried a fighting move which he doesnt :) so yeah think starmie defo coming in now.

    now onto its move set etc.

    i duno if i want to take the life orb from mamo cause the extra power for him is important so i think i'l wack a expert belt on starmie, and swap manos ice move to rock slide :).

    obviously for any starmie important moves are boltbeam/water move/filler. so think i'l go with blizzard-tbolt-pychic-scald/surf. likely to try surf first then depending on how awkward it is with rest teams protects etc i'l either switch to scald or make do.

    gutted i cant fit protect on the set tho :(

    yeah so think thats everything lol cheers for help fellas :)
  10. Zacchaeus

    Zacchaeus
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    I'm really starting to get tired of this. My team is so good but it won't get a chance because of fucking hax. All it takes is a Porygon2 freezing my Magnezone for 11 turns with Tri Attack and then avoiding 2 Draco Meteors in a row for me to lose. (A .0057% chance) At my record I lost to a slight misplay (I probably would've lost either way) and hax, but now that I've figured out how to work my team correctly, I'm getting bent over and ruined by the most unfair shit in the game which literally makes it close to impossible to excell in Subway

    Edit: FUCK THIS SHIT. At round 51 I lost to hax again. I would love to lose to a better team, but apparently no team is better than mine, just luckier and confuses me with Signal Beam and I hurt myself in confusion twice (1.25% chance, not nearly as bad as .0057% but still bad)
  11. skitz0phrenic

    skitz0phrenic

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    I know man, the hax is insane in here. Items like Lum as well as moves like Safeguard/Refresh/Heal Bell/Aromatherapy/etc. are more helpful in this mode now than they've ever been. Unfortunately it's hard as hell to work them in to a team, especially something like p2 >_<
  12. Ashenlock

    Ashenlock

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    I don't doubt that y'all have had some hax issues but it is much, much less an issue now than it was during the Gen IV era. It took dozens of tries over about 3 weeks spent solely on the Battle Tower to get my 100 win star back in May 07. The Subway's hax is a flea bite on the ass compared to the Tower's giant, headchopping pincers.
  13. skitz0phrenic

    skitz0phrenic

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    I think I had an easier time with the tower because by the time I got to it, it was already very well known and documented what was amazing and what wasn't.

    I think the Subway is just as brutal with the hax, but more often it seems like with crits and status (freeeeeeeeeeze, scald ALWAYS burns) rather than evasion and quick claw.

    I hope more people get in to it and aim for some crazy high streaks. I missed a lot of Gen IV's Tower days, and I'm having quite a bit of fun with the Subway.
  14. callforjudgement

    callforjudgement

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    I must be the only person here who had a longish streak that didn't end to hax or to a misplay. I got 64 in Super Doubles Subway with my VGC team (by accident, I was just trying to grind BP for items), and eventually lost to a Crobat, because the team was designed with VGC'11 speed tiers into account, and Crobat is outside that. (The team also had huge problems with Toxicroak, something that obviously doesn't come up in a VGC.) I'm considering adapting the team to the subway, but it might be a pain to re-RNG.

    One potentially useful tip: Encore Whimsicott is really really useful against a wide range of gimmicks. Given that most of the Pokémon in the Subway are gimmicks, it served me pretty well. (I used lead Whimsicott + Jellicent with Tailwind; normally Water Spout + Giga Drain would KO both leads, unless they had a water-resist that wasn't water-type (moderately rare) or two bulky waters.)
  15. jeminni19

    jeminni19

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    75 wins Pokemon White, Battle Subway Super Singles

    alright well it took a lot longer than i wanted and i fooled around with this team for a long while before deciding on a sun team that didn't keep losing after 2 battles:

    Ninetails (Day la Sol)
    Ability:Drought
    item: Choice Specs
    EVs: Max SpA Max Speed
    Nature: Timid
    Moveset: Flamethrower, Solarbeam, Dark Pulse(for chandelure), HP/ICE

    he did his job by putting up the sun, OHKO a lot more pokes then i was expecting, takes metagrosses down EASILY

    Exeggutor (Absolutely)
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    Item: Life Ord
    EVs: Max SpA/ Max Speed
    Nature: Modest
    Moveset: Psychic, Solarbeam, GigaDrain, Hp Fire

    MVP hands down, exeggutor in the sun is an absolute beast!, swept everybody who didn't U-Turn me in the face!,the idea is to switch him in if ninetails is faced with a water or EQ move and giga drain back the health, works great :), also HP FIRE in the sun is awesome for taking out all the bug/steel types. Not to mention Ferrothorn

    Heatran (Heatran) im taking suggestions <<
    Ability: Flash Fire
    Item: Balloon
    EV: Max SpA / Max Speed
    Nature: Modest
    Moveset: Flamethrower,Dragon Pulse, Earth Power, Flame Charge

    Heatran was a HUGE support for exeggutor to handle the fire types, and doge the EQs, before the balloon got popped i usually set up with flame charge and then began to sweep with flamethrower in the sun pretty awesome combo.

    Problems i had - Dragon types are a pain to kill off, Heatrans dragon pulse just wasn't enough most of the time

    Special walls like Blissy and Entei (yes entei PISSED ME OFF SO BAD, i thought i was going to lose to him, but he ran out of all his moves before i could, he had will o wisp, flamethrower, calm mind, and rest and ate heatrans earth powers for lunch cause it didn't do crap to him, set up all over my face)

    How i lost - HUUUUUUUUGE misplay and i can't belive i messed this up, AI sends in landurus and i immediately switch into exeggutor to take the obvious EQ, take it like a champ and i go for solarbeam KNOWing he was going to be sashed, he always is it seems like and sure enough he lives with 1hp left and he hits with a bulldoze taking me down one level in speed. Now i thought i would be faster even after the stat chance but this was definitly not the cause he EQs and takes me out, now i know heatran can take him so i send him out go for the flame charge to get the speed boost and kill him off, he hits me with rockslide and GETS A FRIGGEN FLINCH!!! i was so pissed! balloon pops and i go down to an EQ. Sends out hippo i solar beam with ninetails doesnt kill and he EQs for the win.

    if i sent out heatran after the speed drop, even if he died exeggutor could have swept for the win.


    please please please send me your suggestions i feel like im on to something here with this team just needs a little tweeking.

    before heatran i tried darmanatin and chandelure but to my suprise heatran actually complimented the team the best.


    thanks again and goodluck
  16. SUPERCOW

    SUPERCOW

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
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    1
    Rate my team please?

    Hello there~ Long time stalker of smogon, first time poster.

    Anyway! I've been trying the singles subway with different teams trying to find something that works. [previously: Multiscale Dragonite (below), magic bounce dual screen Espeon, Suicune (below), bulky waters with ice moves (Lapras) and trick room murdered me. Dragonite, Espeon, CB Scizor, I realized Espeon was both too fragile and not strong enough of a hitter. Dragonite, Suicune, Scizor, didn't have anyone I could switch to for T-wave/etc.] This was my highest record with 40 wins (acceptable, but not great). Any comments and (constructive?) criticisms would be greatly appreciated. :)
    Most all of my sets are nearly identical to a set in their analysis page, so you can go there for a more in depth, general analysis.

    Dragonite
    Ability: Multiscale
    -Dragon Dance
    -Dragon Claw
    -Fire Punch
    -Roost
    Nature: Adamant
    Item: Leftovers
    IVs: 31/31/31/IDGAF/31/31
    EVs: 252/22/0/0/0/236
    Lv 50 stats: 198/172/115/107/120/130

    You might have noticed a common thread in that for all of my teams Dragonite was my lead. This was for a good reason. Dragonite is a beast, and has served me well. He is able to set up on his own very often thanks to reusing Multiscale with Roost, and when he does he can sweep entire teams. I was contemplating whether to put Earthquake or Fire Punch on him, and I tried Fire Punch. The very next battle, I fought a trainer with a team of Escavalier, Scizor, and Forretress. My decision was made. The speed EVs allow Dragonite to outspeed Weavile by one point after one DD. Leftovers is essential and better than Lum berry because if they have a status move I just switch out. Water types with ice moves are usually his biggest threat.

    Suicune
    Ability: Pressure
    -Calm Mind
    -Scald
    -Ice Beam
    -Rest
    Nature: Bold
    Item: Chesto Berry
    IVs: 31/meh/31/31/31/31
    EVs: 254/0/252/0/4/0
    Lv 50 stats: 201/75/183/110/136/105

    Suicune is a boss (because I already used beast to describe Dragonite). I am always amazed at how well he takes hits. There's a lot of different pokemon Suicune can set up on, and after as many Calm Mind boosts as your heart desires he can sweep entire teams. Status is no big deal because rest cures it, scald thaws ice, and if he has a sleep move either chesto cures or I can induce sleep myself. I often switch out Dragonite to Suicune when necessary against physical walls, dragon types that D-nite could probably come on top against but are easier to ice beam, and those said water and/or ice pokemon. Even if Suicune isn't particularly good against them if they're special attackers calm mind boost and whittle away. Sleep talk is a no because water absorb laughs in your face. Crits are a pain so you may have to rest early to avoid them.

    Mamoswine
    Ability: Snow Cloak
    -Ice Shard
    -Icicle Crash
    -Earthquake
    -Stone Edge
    Nature: Adamant
    Item: Life Orb
    IVs: 31/31/31/9001/31/31
    EVs: 6/252/0/0/0/252
    Lv 50 stats: 186/200/100/81/81/132

    Mamoswine is the most recent addition but has worked pretty well and has decent synergy with the others. He is the one I'm most looking to replace, however. I chose him because I wanted a ground type to take paralyze that cripples Dragonite, does not share weaknesses, and can hit many key threats with super effective moves. He hits extremely strong, but is frail enough that I can't switch him in unless it's an electric move. Priority Ice Shard has often come in handy, but is also too weak for many other pokemon that Icicle Crash is better for. Mamoswine is all right, but I want something better. He gets the job done, but is sometimes killed too easily.


    Thanks for looking over this and please yell at me for how terrible a team I have. I was considering plausibly Heatran or Registeel, opinions are appreciated.
    :heart:

    Edit: Also, while I am aware of this,
    I am less convinced. When I was using Espeon often enough I didn't even have to switch in on the status move, they would use thunder wave or will-o-wisp on him just to have it bounce back. They only seemed to do it once though. Perhaps it doesn't apply for dream world abilities? *shrugs shoulders*
  17. UpsideDownHitmontop

    UpsideDownHitmontop

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    ^I'm not convinced either. They use water type moves on my dry skin Toxicroak even though they have other moves to use.
  18. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    When did these events occur in your streaks? I'm pretty sure the AI acts dumb early on. In my experiences, the opponent has tried to hit my team members with resistant moves even though there was a better option. I've also seen opponents try to hit my rotom-w with earthquake.
  19. UpsideDownHitmontop

    UpsideDownHitmontop

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    I don't remember exactly when but I know it happened several times in an 87 streak. Definitely happened at least once after battle 49.
    EDIT: oops 87 was a singles streak. The doubles streak in which this happened is at 49 so maybe you're right about them acting dumb early on.
  20. T.L.

    T.L.

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2007
    Messages:
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    I managed to reach 185 wins in the Battle Subway Super Single Line.

    http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/1309/img0372wtf.jpg

    Here is my team.


    Whimsicott* (F) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Prankster
    Nature: Bold
    IVs: 31/x/31/x/31/31
    EVs: 252 HP, 218 Def, 40 SpD
    -Charm
    -Stun Spore
    -Memento
    -Leech Seed


    Bibarel* (M) @ Lefties
    Trait: Moody
    Nature: Careful
    IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
    EVs: 252 HP, 156 Def, 102 SpD
    -Protect
    -Substitute
    -Return
    -Waterfall


    Drapion* (F) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Battle Armor
    Nature: Careful
    IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
    EVs: 252 HP, 156 Def, 102 SpD
    -Acupressure
    -Substitute
    -Crunch
    -Rest


    Nothing too classy. Whimsicotts mission is to cripple opponents starter so Bibarel/Drapion can setup. I pondered if I should have used Taunt over Leech Seed, both have their ups and downs. Leech Seed was very helpful against starters/opponents such as Curse Regirock whose stats (read: attack) can't be lowered with Charm/Memento. Leech Seed also saved me at ~160 wins or so when my opponent only had DDance/Waterfall/Crunch/Sub Feraligatr (at somewhere between 1/16 and 1/8 health) and I had Whimsicott as my last 'mon (just below 100% iirc). I think Feraligatr had DDanced once or twice so I could only hope Leech Seed would hit and he wouldn't get CH. Seeds hit and no crit, Charm and no crit. Huge win. But the lack of taunt meant trouble againts some starters like Belly Drum Hariyama. Especially Sub/Focus Punch/Encore/Waterfall Poliwrath as a starter gave me headache since it took 2-3 Crunches from Drapion to break his sub and he was faster than my Bibarel which meant he could encore my protect several times as I was waiting for a boost for speed/evasion/defense. However those 50% protects went my way 2 times in a row and finally I got the evasion boost I needed to first dodge his encore and then break his sub with return. The match I finally lost went something like this


    I send out Whimsicott, opponents starts with Jolteon.

    Whimsicott used Stun Spore, miss.
    Jolteon used Tbolt, ~30-35% damage + para.

    Whimsicott used Stun Spore, miss.
    Jolteon used Swagger, hits.

    Whimsicott is fully paralyzed.
    Jolteon used Tbolt, ~30-35% damage.

    Whimsicott hits itself.
    Jolteon used Tbol, Whimsicott fainted.

    I sent out Drapion.

    Jolteon used Thunder Wave.
    Drapion is fully paralyzed.

    Jolteon used Swagger, hits.
    Drapion hits itself.

    Jolteon used Tbolt (~40%(?) damage)
    Drapion hits itself.

    Jolteon used Tbolt, Drapion fainted.

    I sent out Bibarel.

    Bibarel used Protect.
    Jolteon Tbolt.

    Bibarel used Protect.
    Jolteon Tbolt.

    Jolteon used Tbolt, 100% damage.


    Maybe I should have switched to Bibarel when I learned Jolteon had Swagger, and then bring Whimsicott back to try to use Memento so Drapion could have stalled Jolteons Tbolts out (and done an Acupressure or two). Dunno. Now in the end I could only hope to get a speed/evasion/sp.defense boost from moody but everything I got was accuracy and defense boosts. :/
  21. Ashenlock

    Ashenlock

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2007
    Messages:
    941
    That's pretty impressive. I tried a cripple-things-for-one-teammate-to-sweep strategy and barely had the patience to get through 14 matches (before losing). How long did ordinary battles last?
  22. Zacchaeus

    Zacchaeus
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2009
    Messages:
    3,259
    The AI intelligence does improve after 49

    But T.L. you could have all the evidence in the world and I personally wouldn't believe you. Acupressure is wretched this generation compared to last generation, the Drapion build is meh and Moody is a horrific ability a good amount of the time so either you are absurdly lucky or cheating, most likely the former
  23. AuraSphere

    AuraSphere

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2009
    Messages:
    487
    Bolded must be the reason I generally lose after beating Ingo in the Super Line. Never got past 52 wins.
  24. T.L.

    T.L.

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2007
    Messages:
    36
    I can't say how much did an average match last, but I did talk with a friend over msn while I played yesterday evening (wins 133-161) and I updated him after every 7 wins. I just checked the log and those four 7 match combos lasted 40-55min/combo so I don't know, maybe average match length would be somewhere around 7 minutes? If everything went well with the cripple-part I could easily set up Drapion without worrying about subbing too many times, just hitting Acupressure 21 times. And if you tap the touch screen with two fingers you can actually get 21 Acupressures done in about 2mins. :D So thats kinda fast. But boring as hell though. When I used Bibarel I normally just waited for +3-4 Attack and +3-4 Speed and started attacking. The matches that took the longest were those when Moody decided to only lower my Attack and I had to stall to get it up or those when I had to pp-stall my bulky opponents (like Curse Ferrothorn and even Roost Mandibuzz, lol).


    Oh yeah. They still don't seem to recognize this move, Substitute, though. As some opponents tend to use status moves while your pokemon is behind one of those things. Makes it a bit easier to setup, you know.


    Please don't even start talking about "cheating". I don't own any kind of cheating/hacking equipment, only my DS Lite and a retail PAL White. And maybe you should test my team before calling me "absurdly lucky". I admit I was very lucky three times. 1) against that Poliwrath I mentioned earlier 2) against that Hariyama I mentioned earlier as it managed to kill 2 of my pokemans and I came through with Drapion (opponents 2nd pokemon was Metagross who luckily a) was slower than Drapion b) happened to have Protect and Magnet Rise and it liked to use them 2/3 of the time so I could Acupressure behind a sub and get some defense/evasion to deal with those nasty EQs) 3) The third time opponent started with CB Brave Bird Staraptor, critted my Whimsicott down after 2 Charms and dealt some serious damage to itself (so I had very little time to setup against a crippled enemy). But yes, of course you always need some luck against these Quick Claw Fissure Mamoswines who come running at you (one of these actually hit 3/4 Fissures while my evasion was +4, luckily I was behind a sub every time).


    For the luls, I'll post another team. I reached 69 wins with this one the first time I made it trought the Subway Boss.

    Tyranitar (F) @ Lum Berry
    Nature: Adamant
    IVs: x/31/x/x/x/31
    -Dragon Dance
    -Crunch
    -Stone-Edge
    -Ice Beam



    Garchomp (M) @ Bright Powder
    Nature: Naive
    IVs: 10/x/x/31/31/31
    -Drago Meteor
    -Earthquake
    -Swords Dance
    -Fire Fang



    Jellicent* (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Cursed Body
    Nature: Bold
    IVs: 31/24/31/30/31/31
    EVs: 248 HP, 218 Def, 44 Speed
    -Recover
    -Will-o-Wisp
    -Toxic
    -Surf


    I Don't remember the exact IVs/EVs for Tyranitar & Garchomp as I brought them up from DPP and it has been several years since I bred them.
  25. Zacchaeus

    Zacchaeus
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2009
    Messages:
    3,259
    I've done very extensive testing of Acupressure Drapion and it's terrible this time around. And since your Drapion can't deal with Whirlwind, Roar, Taunt, or other moves like Encore to a lesser extent, it seems really unlikely. Moody was also bad in my experience but that one is easier to get lucky with. And you can't even deny that both Moody and Acupressure require tons of luck, and when you try to play upwards of 100 rounds with both of those, you're definitely more likely to fail than succeed. And you just copied the same EV spread, everything in that team looks like a red flag to me

    It works in some scenarios, but those teams always have a weakness which Subway is good at picking out. It is incredibly boring and time consuming which sucks but doesn't discount it. And I never said that they cheated, I just said its a possibility, and it is always a possibility when you see a team with red flags, and having tried the "cripple-things-for-one-teammate-to-sweep strategy" effectively and not so effectively for extended periods of time, I'm not lacking in any knowledge on the subject.

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