Obviously you'd keep the calc in mind (Boomburst does 80 minimum to Giratina and 74 minimum to Zygarde) when using Rayquaza. If it can't KO in one turn then it stays out, it's that simple. And it's as simple to chip either 20-25%, since they're switched in on most physical threats.
Good Point... but my point was actually that you would have to not send in Rayquaza-Mega as a threat into Giratina. Afterall, you cannot pick something apart that can 2HKO you before you 2HKO it.
“If it cannot KO in one turn it stays out”, do you mean stays out of battle?
I sounds like you mean stays out to KO, but then Giratina disables the offense and then proceeds to KO with Core Enforcer. Normal Boomburst is doing zero.
“It’s simple to chip 20-25%, since they’re switched into most physical threats”, even more so when I refer to how Rayquaza-Mega is weak to Stealth Rock...
In regards to switching Giratina into physical threats, it really depends on the remainder of the team, for all we know another teammate is a Fur Coat Pokemon that is meant to handle the physical threats, like Slowbro-Mega, Dusk-Mane, etc. Plus, if we include RegenVest:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Giratina: 246-289 (48.8 - 57.3%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO
Giratina can take less, heal more, allowing it to switch out on the same turn as the now Core Enforcered Rayquaza, and recover over half of the damage.
Rayquaza-Mega has to really pick its battles with Giratina, and come in at the right time, Giratina isn’t likely to randomly switch into Boomburst, anymore than Rayquaza-Mega would switch into Core Enforcer.
Anyways, my original point was that Charizard-Mega-Y doesn’t have STAB Dragon coverage, like Rayquaza-Mega and Necrozma-Ultra have. So Boomburst is Charizard-Mega-Y’s best option, while Rayquaza-Mega would just go for Draco Meteor if it predicted a switch in, otherwise Giratina would come in after it is revealed what move Rayquaza-Mega is Choice-locked into.
TLDR: Rayquaza-Mega must get a hit in on the switch; as if slow pivots don’t exist. Giratina wins if it comes in on a slow pivot, or as a revenge kill (as even if it used Draco, it loses -2 SpA if Giratina wasn’t the first target Rayquaza-Mega aimed for). And once it is in, it will keep Rayquaza-Mega out if it’s RegenVest, especially since even Draco Meteor cannot KO. Stealth Rock chips accumulate on Rayquaza-Mega very easily.
Even so; if it’s Prankster it could use Destiny Bond and take Rayquaza-Mega with it.
It isn’t black and white for Rayquaza-Mega to always come out on top.
You never said specifically they were the top 15 Defensive Pokemon, here is what you actually said:
“Considering that only
8.8% of the top 15 mons last October (the most recent month with only Gen 7 BH as an option, in order to have a high sample size)
used Unaware, I think it's safe to say Unaware is not a common issue.”
You misspoke as if the top 15 Pokemon, in general, only use Unaware 8.8%, while we all know the top 15 include offense, like MMY and MMX, who wouldn’t use that ability.
Next time, post the link in the first mention, and be precise with what Pokemon you are actually stating.
*After all, I cannot misread what you did not write...
I already said in my last post that SF MMY does not usually pack coverage for Shedinja because it doesn't need to, its teammates can handle that for it.
Funny how whenever I make the same argument about a teammate handling the Pokemon that one set cannot, it gets seen as not enough... I guess I will be the bigger person and pretend that zero SF MMY use Photon or Moongeist, even though some did...
Anyways, my point was that Necrozma-Ultra doesn’t rely on Sheer Force moves for damage, because Photon Geyser, Clanging Scales, and V-Creates handles what SF Psychic, Ice Beam, Earth Power and Bolt Strike try to do.
Plus, a fourth move for Necrozma-Ultra could just as easily be Precipice Blades to handle Flash Fire Pokemon, just like Rayquaza-Mega did, if it forgoes Shell Smash.
Focus Sash is a terrible option because you lose a significant amount of power. At that point you're probably better off using MMY
Focus Sash works for a Dazzling Smash, or Magic Guard set, since you plan to take a hit to set up, or since Magic Guard protects your Sash for anything, anyways. Focus Sash also enables Reversal over Hi Jump Kick on MGuard sets (Deoxys-A sets).
Focus Sash can be swapped with White Herb on MMY, but Focus Sash enables survival against any hit and keeps it
Imposterproof, if intact, for Smash (i.e. Dazzling) sets, and protects it from Priority hits if it doesn’t have Dazzling (like Sucker Punch Tar).
252 SpA Griseous Orb Giratina Core Enforcer vs. 252 HP / 252- SpD Mewtwo-Mega-Y: 127-150 (30.5 - 36%) -- 50% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Griseous Orb Giratina Core Enforcer vs. 252 HP / 0- SpD Deoxys-Attack: 819-964 (269.4 - 317.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Why does Spectral Thief suddenly not exist on Giratina sets?
Sure, you can handle Core, but at le
252 Atk Giratina Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mewtwo-Mega-Y: 242-288 (58.1 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
[
Did you forget that Necrozma-Ultra is a Psychic-type? Only 15% of Rayquaza-Mega sets we know used mixed sets, the rest used physical or special. And what's funny is that your last statement about Necrozma-Ultra and Rayquaza-Mega can be made even more accurately about Necrozma-Ultra and MMY.
Cool, I forgot that Psychic was Necrozma-Ultra’s primary typing, and said it was the secondary typing, but you forgot to specify that you were referring its “Psychic type” being its
primary type. The fact I already referred to it as a Psychic-type in the sentence prior proves I remembered it is a Psychic-type, the fact you didn’t even call that out correctly doesn’t make you look smart.
Um, 15% of different sets? Maybe. But Aerilate was one of its biggest sets, which you noted was in its top 3 abilities, and pretty much was near guaranteed to be mixed for at least Extreme Speed and Boomburst, even on Specs versions.
Your own link to the Usage stats shows Extreme Speed on over 26% of Rayquaza-Mega sets, with Aerilate on over 34% of Rayquaza-sets, and Life Orb om over 25% of sets. Sounds like mixed sweeping is way higher than 15%, in regards to actual total gameplay for all sets.
P.S. It also mentioned Secret Sword was at 18%, so even if it was an all SpA Specs set, that is still mixed sweeping since it hits off of Defense.
Not that it needs that at all to count for over 15%.
I didn't know Necrozma-Ultra could change its stats and dual typing, is that a new mechanic for Gen 7 BH?
Actually, it is, thanks to the Necrozium-Z Crystal, it can change stats and typing from Necrozma Dusk-Mane, or Necrozma Dawn-Wings, into Necrozma-Ultra, something that was introduced as part of the Z-Crystal move mechanic, brand new to Gen 7... so yes!
Anyways, I was referring to the fact it is more flexible because unlike the other C-Rank Pokemon like Metagross-Mega, and Swampert-Mega, it’s typing and Stats allow it to use strong moves from either Atk or SpA, and take advantage of both of its typings for each. Afterall, Photon Geyser can literally serve as an ideal STAB for it with which ever offense it chooses. It maintains flexibility because if it gets Burned, hit by King’s Shield, or Strength Sap, it can use Photon off of its SpA stat, and maintain most of its power...
Since it can go mixed and has 2 STABS, it won’t rely on items and abilities to boost its damage for coverage, since its STABS cover almost all types neutrally, when combined, this prevents 4MSS, and it even has comparable bulk to Rayquaza-Mega, without a 4x weakness.
So yes, flexible!
your parents must be proud of all the internet arguments you've "won" huh
It wasn’t hard to win against you. And hey, it got you to respond, so it looks like I won by getting what I wanted out of you. ;)
alright Cool Set tm...
unfunny volcano man (Groudon) @ Groundium Z
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Stealth Rock
- Will-O-Wisp
- Strength Sap
Basically this plays like Groudon-Primal except if wow gets bounced you benefit from it (switching into WoW and Scald and Lava Plume are options too). TArrows into Z-TArrows 2HKOs Giratina which is really cool. Garchomp-Mega may be an option cause of higher Atk and Spe but Groudon isn't weak to Dragon/Fairy and the extra Defense helps it out in some cases like taking hits from MMX (252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Mewtwo-Mega-X Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Groudon: 326-384 (80.6 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO). Improofed by the same things as Groudon-Primal was (Magic Bounce physical fatmon), basically, though you might want to pack a Core Enforcer on it to cancel out Guts if Imposter burns itself.
replay:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-1109341754 (featuring your local unset band assist mmx)
i had a replay with will where don still put in some work even though it didn't get burned but i forgot to save it rip
Garchomp-Mega due to its additional resistances, such as Fire to tank V-Create, higher base Speed, and higher Atk (even higher than Adamant Groudon when not Adamant), better SpD bulk, and basically equal Phsycial bulk outperforms Groudon so it can get the jump on Red Orb Groudon, Kyogre-Primal, and other base Speed 90s. This allows it better survivability Vs Grass, Water, and Fire attacks.
252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Mewtwo-Mega-X Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garchomp-Mega: 342-404 (81.4 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
A literal 1% difference to your own Groudon calc.
Real Potential (Garchomp-Mega) @ Groundium Z
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Stealth Rock
- Will-O-Wisp
- Strength Sap
As Impish it has basically the same Def bulk, due to higher HP, but also 1 higher Atk, than Adamant Groudon, so if bulk was your argument, it is actually in Garchomp-Mega’s favor.
It all comes down to typing, since you didn’t bother to calc it’s Impish set, and just went off base Stats...
Also Imposter won’t need to burn itself, it could let you Burn it on the switch-in, such as if it scouted your set, then is sent it back in.
Why not just use a Flame Orb; then Psycho Shift to
bypass Magic Bounce, which is 100% accurate, and Improof with a Poison Healer? This way if they come in to Magic Bounce your Stealth Rick, you can still Burn them, especially if they have any Atk power.
This also means they are going to have to remove their Guts boost in order to Burn an ally of yours, but that move doesn’t work if you have put a Pokemon with any status ailments, so they can only cure themselves of Burn if you allow it.
The Z-Crystal is cool and all, but I don’t know if you would just be better off with a guaranteed 50% boost, as you said your second match didn’t even get Groudon Burned... so I suggest Flame Orb.
Having to depend on getting Magic Bounced a status is unreliable, if they scouted your Groudon, they would just avoid statusing you as well. Flame Orb prevents Sleep, Freeze, and Toxic, so I think it’s a safer bet as a status absorber.
Primal Groudon (
Mega Rayquaza (
Garchomp-Mega
Registeel
Aerodactyl-Mega
Arceus
Ho-Oh
Magearna
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
Aegislash
Blaziken-Mega
Cresselia
Greninja-Ash
Slowbro-Mega
Solgaleo
Zekrom
Charizard-Mega-Y (Poison Heal, Aerilate, Triage)
Deoxys-Attack
Metagross-Mega (Magic Bounce, Regenerator, Tough Claws)
Necrozma-Ultra
Palkia (Drizzle, Tinted Lens, Swift Swim)
Pheromosa
Rayquaza (Aerilate, Triage, Tough Claws)
Sableye-Mega
Scizor-Mega (Flash Fire)
Steelix-Mega (Flash Fire, Prankster, Regenerator)
Suicune (Magic Bounce)
Swampert-Mega
Tapu Fini (Fur Coat)
Aggron-Mega (Regenerator, Prankster)
Ampharos-Mega (Prankster, Galvanize)
Darmanitan-Zen (Regenerator, Fur Coat)
Diancie
Gardevoir-Mega (Tinted Lens, Pixilate)
Giratina-Origin (Magic Bounce, Prankster, Mold Breaker)
Heatran (Magic Bounce, Levitate)
Heracross-Mega (Triage, Tinted Lens)
Hoopa-Unbound
Lucario-Mega (Steelworker)
Lugia (Aerilate, Magic Bounce)
Marowak-Alola (Tinted Lens, Tough Claws)
Nihilego (Sand Stream, Levitate)
Regirock (Sand Stream)
Reshiram (Turboblaze, Poison Heal, Desolate Land)
Sceptile-Mega
Stakataka (Steelworker, Sand Stream, Levitate)
Toxapex
Venusaur-Mega (Flash Fire)
Xurkitree (Galvanize)
Zeraora (Snow Warning, Teravolt)
Mega Latias
Deoxys-Speed
Mawile
Mega Alakazam
Mega Salamence
Latios (Contrary, weather ability, Mold Breaker, Regenerator)
Landorus-Therian (Prankster)
Pokestar MT (Flash Fire, others)
Archeops (Poison Heal, Magic Guard)
Infernape (Tinted Lens, Magnet Pull)
Jirachi (Dry Skin, etc)
Latias (see Latios)
Mewtwo (Sheer Force, Adaptability, some others)
Shaymin (Poison Heal, Drizzle)
Tyranitar (Sand Stream, Levitate, Dry Skin, Poison Heal)
Arceus-Flying (Multitype)
Arceus-Rock (Multitype)
Arceus-Steel (Multitype)
Darkrai (No Guard, Poison Heal)
Genesect (No Guard)
Keldeo (Tinted Lens, Drizzle, Poison Heal)
Landorus (Sheer Force)
Raikou (Dry Skin)
Scizor (Unaware, Dry Skin)
Shaymin-Sky (Sheer Force)
Terrakion (Magic Guard)
Thundurus-Therian (Sheer Force)
Shuckle (Unaware)
up to d: im not super confident on this nom but 
Agree, there are other breakers that do around the same work while pulling their weight in many other matchups.
