Balanced Hackmons Old Gens Hub 
-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
BH Balanced Hackmons Old Gens Hub
- Thread starter Tea Guzzler
- Start date
Balanced Hackmons Old Gens Hub
SS Balanced Hackmons
Important mechanical differences between Gen 9 and Gen 8:
- Moves and Pokemon missing from SV are usable in SS.
Ho-Oh, Sacred Fire
Lugia
Registeel
Doom Desire
Regigigas
Darmanitan
Ferrothorn
Reshiram, Blue Flare
Zekrom, Bolt Strike
Kyurem-White, Kyurem-Black
Topsy-Turvy
Xerneas
Yveltal, Oblivion Wing
Zygarde-Complete, Thousand Waves, Thousand Arrows, Core Enforcer
Tapu Fini
Solgaleo, Sunsteel Strike
Lunala, Moongeist Beam
Pheromosa
Kartana
Celesteela
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, Photon Geyser
Marshadow, Spectral Thief
Blacephalon
Melmetal
Fishious Rend- Zacian, Zacian-C, Zamazenta, Zamazenta-C, and Cresselia all have higher BST in Gen 8 (Zacian-C and Rusted Sword are Banned).
- Wicked Blow, Glacial Lance, and Grassy Glide have higher BP.
- Intrepid Sword and Dauntless Shield activate every time the user switches in.
- Protean/Libero activate without limit (Banned).
- Battle Bond has its old effects of transforming Greninja into Ash Greninja, however since Greninja isn't in SS, it does nothing.
- Recover, Soft-Boiled, Milk Drink, Slack Off, Roost, and Rest all have 16 PP.
- Hail is used instead of Snow, which deals 6.25% damage to all non-Ice-types at the end of every turn and doesn't buff the Defense of Ice types.
Calyrex-Shadow
Cramorant-Gorging
Darmanitan-Galar-Zen
Eternatus-Eternamax
Shedinja
Zacian-Crowned
- OHKO Moves
- Double Iron Bash
- Octolock
- Shell Smash
- Bolt Beak
- Court Change
- Belly Drum
- Transform
- Wonder Guard
- Pure / Huge Power
- Parental Bond
- Protean / Libero
- Shadow Tag / Arena Trap
- Moody
- Water Bubble
- Innards Out
- Magnet Pull
- Stakeout
- Illusion
- Contrary
- Neutralizing Gas
- Gorilla Tactics
- Intrepid Sword
S Rank
Xerneas
A Rank
A+
Eternatus
Imposter
Regigigas
A
Ho-oh
Zamazenta-Crowned
A-
Giratina
Groudon
Lunala
Zygarde-Complete
B Rank
B+
Palkia
Tapu Fini
Celesteela
B
Kyurem-Black
Dialga
Kartana
Kyogre
Magearna
Yveltal
Zekrom
Giratina-Origin
Zacian
Spectrier
B-
Solgaleo
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
Rayquaza
Reshiram
Blacephalon
Calyrex-Ice
Barraskewda
Melmetal
C Rank
Cresselia
Darmanitan-Zen
Ferrothorn
Golisopod
Registeel
Dragapult
Heatran
Lugia
Mewtwo
Snorlax
Type Null:
D Rank
Landorus-Therian
Pheromosa
Suicune
Chansey
Doublade
Dusclops
Garchomp
Kyurem-White
Regieleki
Marshadow
Swampert
Thundurus-Therian
Umbreon
Victini
Zamazenta
Zeraora
Nihilego
XerneasA Rank
A+
Eternatus Imposter RegigigasA
Ho-oh Zamazenta-CrownedA-
Giratina Groudon Lunala Zygarde-CompleteB Rank
B+
Palkia Tapu Fini CelesteelaB
Kyurem-Black Dialga Kartana Kyogre Magearna Yveltal Zekrom Giratina-Origin Zacian SpectrierB-
Solgaleo Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Rayquaza Reshiram Blacephalon Calyrex-Ice Barraskewda MelmetalC Rank
Cresselia Darmanitan-Zen Ferrothorn Golisopod Registeel Dragapult Heatran Lugia Mewtwo Snorlax Type Null:D Rank
Landorus-Therian Pheromosa Suicune Chansey Doublade Dusclops Garchomp Kyurem-White Regieleki Marshadow Swampert Thundurus-Therian Umbreon Victini Zamazenta Zeraora NihilegoSearing Assault by Tea Guzzler
[Offense - Shift Gear Ho-Oh + Psycho Shift Regigigas]
Nuclear Fusion (Hard Mode) by cityscapes
[Bulky Offense - Dual Screens + Flare Boost Eternatus]
Dual Screens BO by XxLazzerpenguinxX
[Bulky Offense - Swords Dance Groudon + Tough Claws Zaamzenta-C]
Criminal Enterprises by Tea Guzzler
[Balance - Aerilate Yveltal + Pixilate Xerneas + Utility Regigigas]
Typical of Me by XxLazzerpenguinxX
[Balance - Double Poison Heal + RegenVest Zygarde-C]
Telemarket Scammers by Career Ended
[Semi-Stall - Regenerator Eternatus + Poison Heal Xerneas]
End of The World 2.0 by TTTech
[Stall - Double Poison Heal + Toxic Orb Imposter]
[Offense - Shift Gear Ho-Oh + Psycho Shift Regigigas]
How to use: Most games you're going for the Ho-Oh sweep, making use of V-create's absurd damage output. Games where there's no wall you can usually just sweep through, otherwise you're using Regigigas' Blades and Psycho Shift to help get Ho-Oh through. Zama, Melm and Zyg are fatmons you're mostly using for momentum, Xern keeps hazards off whilst binning opposing Ho-Oh and spamming Plate Boomburst. Paralyze FC Lunala and Toxic FC Fires/Waters, use Zygarde as the knock sponge in matchups where you need to Psycho for Ho-Oh to not be walled.
Other options:
Other options:
- Because it's so fat, you can opt to run Entrainment so you can trap and eliminate PHealers, including Blades Gigas.
- Diamond Storm hits Desolate Land Ho-Oh, however misses out on misc targets + your own Ho-Oh can't emergency Improof anymore.
- No Ghost-type on the team, so you can swap this with Giratina if you're overly concerned about trapping.
- Imp can use the 2 Sap mons as relatively safe recovery (more Ho-Oh than Xern), so counterplay mostly comes down to creating a situation where it is forced to lose it's Eviolite in order to sap Zama-C.
See the above trapping issue- Prank Giratina can starve Glance of PP, so will usually require poisoning before attempting to force Ho-Oh through.
[Bulky Offense - Dual Screens + Flare Boost Eternatus]
- How to use: Trick Celesteela's scarf as early as you can, especially against very offensive teams. Identify if Xerneas and/or Entei can keep hazards up on the opposing side, and use a mixture of Imposter, double switches, and pivoting with Celesteela to keep pressure. Eternatus will almost never have counters. Set it up against anything that can't pivot out. Opposing Imposter on Eternatus is a pain but Celesteela, Chansey, and Regigigas can keep it in check depending on the situation.
- Weaknesses: Very offensive teams can be tricky to play against; you have good measures in Extreme Speed Xerneas + Regigigas + Imposter but these are purely passive and you still need to find openings in order to actually win. Xerneas Extreme Speed is a 68.8% roll to OHKO Dragapult so you can run into some trouble there. If Celesteela gets Assault Vest you can't remove hazards, so you need to speed up your gameplan.
[Bulky Offense - Swords Dance Groudon + Tough Claws Zaamzenta-C]
The team revolves around spreading paralyses with SD Groudon, and breaking through things it might normally have trouble with, such as fc lunala with Tough Claws Zama-C. Groudon's bulk is quite mediocre so it has trouble setting up at times. Behind screens however, it becomes very difficult to deter. Yveltal is necessary here, because the team can struggle on the physical side vs. desolate land ho-oh, so it is able to be a complimentary offensive pokemon here.
Weakness: Simple plot eternatus can really run through this team since Kyogre can't do much back, and heatran gets blown away by +2/+4 earth power. Also, last mon pheal xerneas can be a real pain, especially if it has strength sap, since the only way to beat it is via sunsteel strike from Zamazenta-C. Groudon might be able to deal with it, by clicking SD behind screens though.
Weakness: Simple plot eternatus can really run through this team since Kyogre can't do much back, and heatran gets blown away by +2/+4 earth power. Also, last mon pheal xerneas can be a real pain, especially if it has strength sap, since the only way to beat it is via sunsteel strike from Zamazenta-C. Groudon might be able to deal with it, by clicking SD behind screens though.
[Balance - Aerilate Yveltal + Pixilate Xerneas + Utility Regigigas]
How to use: Regigigas is your main progress maker - it either threatens raw damage or to cripple the target with Knock / Spikes. Pivot spam across the team gives you ample chances to crack the Toxic Orb or get Xerneas/Yveltal in safely to cause havoc, as well as limiting how often you're on the back foot. Zygarde-C sponges most physical threats and provides valuable Bounce support, and when combined with Melmetal can help limit the majority of the physical tier. Your main goal is to get Spikes up and then start slamming Xerneas as much as possible, playing the long game to force enough chip if necessary. Chansey improofs Yveltal and Xerneas (preferably use Melmetal for Xern, but Chansey does work), Zygarde improofs Regigigas and itself, Melmetal improofs Itself.
Other options:
Other options:
- Nuzzle is still fully improofed, so if you want you can swap it for Knock. Neither's significantly better than the other.
- Opposing Yveltal aren't usually a massive issue, but if you're still paranoid, go Haze. You can also run Glare over Entrain since you're already fine against Normpult.
- Knock over Volt Switch is an option to cut off items, however I personally prefer Volt Switch's momentum.
- Doesn't come in easily, however you need to play really careful with Melmetal against it as this is your only real switch-in.
- Relying on Melmetal as a Steel-type means Blue Flare users are problematic. Reshiram and Adapt Eternatus are particular problems.
- Glacial Lance users with Fire-type coverage are real rough, so you need to limit the chances these get as much as possible.
[Balance - Double Poison Heal + RegenVest Zygarde-C]
Balance team, revolving on eventually breaking with Regigigas. Xerneas is able to pivot around most teams, and burn anchor shot trapping users. Zamazenta-C and Zygarde-C form a nice hazard controlling core. Dusclops covers for both of Zama-C's and Zygarde-C's weakness and is able to knock off valuable items at the start of a game.
Weakness: The team isn't weak to a lot. It mainly struggles vs. toxic orb imposter.
Weakness: The team isn't weak to a lot. It mainly struggles vs. toxic orb imposter.
[Semi-Stall - Regenerator Eternatus + Poison Heal Xerneas]
How to use: This team revolves around scouting and gathering information early on using strong tools like Imposter and the Regen Volt-Turn Core of Melmetal and Eternatus to determine your opponents win paths early and prevent them, while supporting setup Poison Heal Xerneas as a dangerous Mid-Late game threat. Prankster Copycat Ho-oh and Trick Black Sludge provide incredible Utility to take on opposing Threats as Trick Black sludge can be used to basically nullify Poison Heal Pokemon's biggest asset and put them on a timer so they can be dealt with easier and Prankster Ho-oh has the great volt turn capabilities paired with the Slow U-turns and Volt switches provided by the Regen pokemon. Prankster Ho-oh also offering prankster haze is very strong setup counterplay, especially when paired with Nuzzle / Glare Lunala and Imposter. Brave Prankster V-Create also has the great benefit of always 2HKOing both Regigigas and Xerneas after Poison Heal Recovery. Lunala acts as a final glue as the dedicated Regigigas Check (Watch out for Wicked Blow) and providing the team with a Fur Coat blanket check for physical attackers and it clicks the para button. Good Luck Scamming the opps!
Other options:
Other options:
- Different moves work on PH Xerneas. I think MB, QD, Rapid spin and Tcage is the most effective variant, since it takes some pressure off of melmetal in hazard stack matchups, being able to spin on most lunala and giratinas. Zap Cannon + Magma Storm is a much more aggressive win condition with caveat of having to hit your inaccurate moves. Finally lava plume also works in lieu of rapid spin if you're not frightened of facing spin blocking hazard stack teams
- the item is mostly up to preference, helmet is nice to punish uturn, boots is good if you're running a xern set lacking spin and wanna take on spikes regis better, leftovers is always good. I prefer glare on this team usually, since para'ing the bulky ground types like groudon and zygc helps literally everything else on the team muscle through them, but nuzzle is also fine. Just be careful of Magic Bounce grounds
- The imposter set should be run to improof the xern in case of toxic orb imposter. so for example if you're running the zap cannon set you should run jungle healing on chansey. otherwise topsy teleport healing + utility so either trapping / nuzzle / knock / aroma.
- can be made +spdef to help with the triage matchup, running leftovers over boots also works (provided your double spin to not get completely bricked by hazard stack)
- I've run Core enforcer over spin or spectral to help vs regigigas, but i heavily prefer the 4 moves in the paste.
- the right Regigigas set will walk over any team in BH and this team's particular weakness is Nuzzle + SD + Wicked Blow, as it can nuzzle Imposter and Etern and Simply OHKO Lunala after some Chip and an SD. Another Dangerous set is DD + Wicked Blow + Precipice Blades. Typically opponents will bring in Regi on Ho-oh and you can trade 60% for the first V-create and if they're unaware of the set maybe you can 2HKO them. Definitely scouting the Regigigas early is beneficial and you can decide the best course of action. Another good way to deal with them is to Trick your Black Sludge onto the Regi hopefully while not taking a nuzzle or a boosted glance / pblades.
- Triage can be problematic. Typically Imposter Is very strong vs it, harding to melm on suspected triage is and paralyzing it will usually mean imposter can beat it. Ho-oh can also stall Owings from Yveltal specifically (not rayquaza) but Tcage will destroy it. Fire +Elec + Owing coverage is hard to play around so just be aware.
- Hazard spam teams can be problematic depending on the team makeup, but certain builds with Entrainment Regen Lunala can really be a difficult match. The team doesn't have a knock user so teams that stack HDB can endure long games but mostly once you've revealed trick with etern you can spam trick to hopefully take away their boots and give it to something like their life orb magic guard or their imp.
- The Fish can be difficult if they have something to bring it in on xern, but everything else can do something to do it if the fish gets in on them. Imp is fat, Ho-oh can prankster copycat (hopefully a volt switch 252 SpA Ho-Oh Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Barraskewda: 162-192 (49.6 - 58.8%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO) melm can nuzzle then you can go hard etern. Etern will be 2hkod if the fish is faster however.
- can be difficult to play around, Trick from etern is really good way to deal with it, but if u can also hope to glare it with lunala. Sometimes though the pult will get in on imp or xern or melm and you might need to sack a pokemon.
[Stall - Double Poison Heal + Toxic Orb Imposter]
Team Description:
Similar gameplan to the original EoTW, it's stall designed to beat other stall and common cores but to a more advanced degree. Tina and Fini are the hazard setters and status mons. Ho oh is the Tina and Fini improof while handling most xern sets unless it has coverage. Null is just a really good all rounder for the team by getting off items and keeping physical walls in check. Imposter does imposter things, but beats/takes advantage of ph mons like regi, xern, and others. Registeel is the prank mon of the team keeping etern, xern, and set up sweepers in check with haze and topsy for both scenarios where either or would work or be better.
Weakness:
Same weaknesses as the original being blac, etern, coverage gigas (if both registeel and tina are low), bounce ho oh (or offensive shift gear with lance), triage yvel, taunt (sometimes, not a big deal though tbh), tends to lose to parahax if you get really unlucky on ho oh or null, and losing to timer because you're doing other things.
Similar gameplan to the original EoTW, it's stall designed to beat other stall and common cores but to a more advanced degree. Tina and Fini are the hazard setters and status mons. Ho oh is the Tina and Fini improof while handling most xern sets unless it has coverage. Null is just a really good all rounder for the team by getting off items and keeping physical walls in check. Imposter does imposter things, but beats/takes advantage of ph mons like regi, xern, and others. Registeel is the prank mon of the team keeping etern, xern, and set up sweepers in check with haze and topsy for both scenarios where either or would work or be better.
Weakness:
Same weaknesses as the original being blac, etern, coverage gigas (if both registeel and tina are low), bounce ho oh (or offensive shift gear with lance), triage yvel, taunt (sometimes, not a big deal though tbh), tends to lose to parahax if you get really unlucky on ho oh or null, and losing to timer because you're doing other things.
End of Another World by Nihilslave
[Hyper Offense - Simple Spectrier + Tough Claws Yveltal + Swords Dance Regigigas]
Path of Peril and Pain by astralydia
[Offense - Pixilate Zacian + Magic Guard Ho-oh + Poison Heal Xerneas]
The French Dispatch by XxSevagxX
[Offense - Regenerator Calyrex-Ice + Dragon's Maw Eternats + Poison Heal Regigigas]
Empty Shells by cityscapes
[Balance - Aerilate Celesteela + Pixilate Xerneas + Eviolite Imposter]
Foraging for Truffles by Lunatic Hai
[Balance - Adapt Eternatus + Poison Heal Regigigas]
Critical Wounds by Tea Guzzler
[Balance - Aerilate Rayquaza + Adaptability Palkia + Ice Scales Groudon]
Shock Driving by quojova
[Balance - Triage Celesteela + Pixilate Xerneas + Poison Heal Regigigas]
Umb Stall by SlightlyAngryKevin
[Stall - Poison Heal Umbreon + Poison Heal Tapu Fini + Regenerator Eternatus]
End of the World by TTTech
[Stall - Imposter Chansey + Imposter Blissey + Magic Bounce Giratina]
[Hyper Offense - Simple Spectrier + Tough Claws Yveltal + Swords Dance Regigigas]
Path of Peril and Pain by astralydia
[Offense - Pixilate Zacian + Magic Guard Ho-oh + Poison Heal Xerneas]
The French Dispatch by XxSevagxX
[Offense - Regenerator Calyrex-Ice + Dragon's Maw Eternats + Poison Heal Regigigas]
Empty Shells by cityscapes
[Balance - Aerilate Celesteela + Pixilate Xerneas + Eviolite Imposter]
Foraging for Truffles by Lunatic Hai
[Balance - Adapt Eternatus + Poison Heal Regigigas]
Critical Wounds by Tea Guzzler
[Balance - Aerilate Rayquaza + Adaptability Palkia + Ice Scales Groudon]
Shock Driving by quojova
[Balance - Triage Celesteela + Pixilate Xerneas + Poison Heal Regigigas]
Umb Stall by SlightlyAngryKevin
[Stall - Poison Heal Umbreon + Poison Heal Tapu Fini + Regenerator Eternatus]
End of the World by TTTech
[Stall - Imposter Chansey + Imposter Blissey + Magic Bounce Giratina]
Gen 8 Thread
Gen 8 Resources Thread
World Cup of Other Metagames threads (these have BH games in them, each word links to a different week)
OMPL X Replays and Usage Stats
BH Ladder Tournament 2
OM Champs 2022
OM Swiss 2022 (Stage 1 BH/R1/R2/R3/QF/SF/F)
BH Seasonal 2022 (1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9/10/11/F)
OMWC IV Replays and Usage Stats
No Imposter BH Tour
Gen 8 Resources Thread
World Cup of Other Metagames threads (these have BH games in them, each word links to a different week)
OMPL X Replays and Usage Stats
BH Ladder Tournament 2
OM Champs 2022
OM Swiss 2022 (Stage 1 BH/R1/R2/R3/QF/SF/F)
BH Seasonal 2022 (1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9/10/11/F)
OMWC IV Replays and Usage Stats
No Imposter BH Tour
Individual:
/challenge gen8anythinggoes@@@!Obtainable, -Future, -Past, -LGPE, -CAP, -Custom, -Comatose + Sleep Talk, OHKO Clause, Dynamax Clause, Endless Battle Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Sleep Moves Clause, Forme Clause, -Rusted Sword, -Calyrex-Shadow, -Cramorant-Gorging, -Darmanitan-Galar-Zen, -Eternatus-Eternamax, -Shedinja, -Zacian-Crowned, -Double Iron Bash, -Octolock, -Shell Smash, -Bolt Beak, -Court Change, -Belly Drum, -Transform, -Wonder Guard, -Pure Power, -Huge Power, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Libero, -Shadow Tag, -Arena Trap, -Moody, -Water Bubble, -Innards Out, -Magnet Pull, -Stakeout, -Illusion, -Contrary, -Neutralizing Gas, -Gorilla Tactics, -Intrepid Sword
Tournament:
/tour new gen8anythinggoes, elimination,,, Gen 8 BH
/tour rules !Obtainable, -Future, -Past, -LGPE, -CAP, -Custom, -Comatose + Sleep Talk, OHKO Clause, Dynamax Clause, Endless Battle Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Sleep Moves Clause, Forme Clause, -Rusted Sword, -Calyrex-Shadow, -Cramorant-Gorging, -Darmanitan-Galar-Zen, -Eternatus-Eternamax, -Shedinja, -Zacian-Crowned, -Double Iron Bash, -Octolock, -Shell Smash, -Bolt Beak, -Court Change, -Belly Drum, -Transform, -Wonder Guard, -Pure Power, -Huge Power, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Libero, -Shadow Tag, -Arena Trap, -Moody, -Water Bubble, -Innards Out, -Magnet Pull, -Stakeout, -Illusion, -Contrary, -Neutralizing Gas, -Gorilla Tactics, -Intrepid Sword
/challenge gen8anythinggoes@@@!Obtainable, -Future, -Past, -LGPE, -CAP, -Custom, -Comatose + Sleep Talk, OHKO Clause, Dynamax Clause, Endless Battle Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Sleep Moves Clause, Forme Clause, -Rusted Sword, -Calyrex-Shadow, -Cramorant-Gorging, -Darmanitan-Galar-Zen, -Eternatus-Eternamax, -Shedinja, -Zacian-Crowned, -Double Iron Bash, -Octolock, -Shell Smash, -Bolt Beak, -Court Change, -Belly Drum, -Transform, -Wonder Guard, -Pure Power, -Huge Power, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Libero, -Shadow Tag, -Arena Trap, -Moody, -Water Bubble, -Innards Out, -Magnet Pull, -Stakeout, -Illusion, -Contrary, -Neutralizing Gas, -Gorilla Tactics, -Intrepid Sword
Tournament:
/tour new gen8anythinggoes, elimination,,, Gen 8 BH
/tour rules !Obtainable, -Future, -Past, -LGPE, -CAP, -Custom, -Comatose + Sleep Talk, OHKO Clause, Dynamax Clause, Endless Battle Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Sleep Moves Clause, Forme Clause, -Rusted Sword, -Calyrex-Shadow, -Cramorant-Gorging, -Darmanitan-Galar-Zen, -Eternatus-Eternamax, -Shedinja, -Zacian-Crowned, -Double Iron Bash, -Octolock, -Shell Smash, -Bolt Beak, -Court Change, -Belly Drum, -Transform, -Wonder Guard, -Pure Power, -Huge Power, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Libero, -Shadow Tag, -Arena Trap, -Moody, -Water Bubble, -Innards Out, -Magnet Pull, -Stakeout, -Illusion, -Contrary, -Neutralizing Gas, -Gorilla Tactics, -Intrepid Sword
Last edited:
SM Balanced Hackmons
- All applicable changes in more recent gens.
- Moves cut from Generation 8, such as Pursuit and Judgment, are usable. Full list here (note: some were added back in DLCs).
- All Pokemon in the Generation 7 National Pokedex can be used, including Mega Evolutions and Ultra Necrozma.
- Z-Crystals and Mega Stones can be used, allowing for the use of Z-Moves and manual Mega Evolution.
- Figy Berry and its equivalents restore HP by 50% instead of 33%.
- Rapid Spin is 20 BP and does not increase Speed.
- Grassy, Electric, and Psychic Terrain boost is 1.5x instead of 1.3x.
- Defog doesn't remove Terrains.
Pokemon
Moves
Moves
- Chatter (Link)
- OHKO Moves
- Wonder Guard
- Pure/Huge Power
- Parental Bond (Link)
- Protean (Link) (Gen 7: Link)
- Shadow Tag/Arena Trap
- Moody (Link)
- Water Bubble (Link)
- Innards Out (Link)
- Magnet Pull (Link)
- Stakeout (Link)
- Psychic Surge (Link)
- Illusion (Link)
- Contrary (Link)
- Ability Clause: No more than two Pokemon with the same ability per team. (Link)
- CFZ Clause: Use of Crystal-Free Z-Moves (CFZ's) is disallowed. Z-Moves can only be used by upgrading the base move with a Z-Crystal, like in standard play. (Link, Discussion)
- ComaTalk Clause: Sleep Talk can't be run on a Pokemon with the Comatose ability (Link)
- Endless Battle Clause: Forcing an endless battle is banned, similar to the rest of PS
- Evasion Moves Clause: No moves that can increase Evasion are allowed. This does not include abilities or items that may modify Evasion passively such as Sand Veil or Brightpowder (Link)
- Sleep Clause: Only one Pokemon on the opponent's team can be put to sleep at a time. This excludes self-inflicted sleep or Comatose (Link)
- Forme Clause: You may only use one of each forme of a Pokemon on your team. (Example: you can use both Mewtwo-Mega-X and Mewtwo-Mega-Y on the same team)
-
Gengarite (Link)
S Rank
Imposter
Xerneas
A Rank
A+
Gengar-Mega
Giratina
Groudon [Red Orb]
Mewtwo-Mega-Y
Shedinja
Zygarde-Complete
A
Diancie-Mega
Kyogre-Primal
Mewtwo-Mega-X
A-
Kartana
Yveltal
B Rank
B+
Garchomp-Mega
Registeel
B
Aerodactyl-Mega
Arceus
Dialga
Ho-Oh
Kangaskhan [Kangaskhanite]
Kyurem-Black
Magearna
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
Regigigas/Slaking
Tyranitar-Mega
B-
Aegislash
Audino-Mega
Beedrill-Mega
Blaziken-Mega
Celesteela
Chansey
Cresselia
Greninja-Ash
Kyurem-White
Slowbro-Mega
Solgaleo
Zekrom
C Rank
Charizard-Mega-Y (Poison Heal, Aerilate, Triage)
Deoxys-Attack
Ferrothorn
Gyarados-Mega
Metagross-Mega (Magic Bounce, Regenerator, Tough Claws)
Necrozma-Ultra
Palkia (Drizzle, Tinted Lens, Swift Swim)
Pheromosa
Rayquaza (Aerilate, Triage, Tough Claws)
Sableye-Mega
Scizor-Mega (Flash Fire)
Steelix-Mega (Flash Fire, Prankster, Regenerator)
Suicune (Magic Bounce)
Swampert-Mega
Tapu Fini (Fur Coat)
D Rank
Aggron-Mega (Regenerator, Prankster)
Ampharos-Mega (Prankster, Galvanize)
Arceus-Steel (Multitype)
Darmanitan-Zen (Regenerator, Fur Coat)
Diancie
Gardevoir-Mega (Tinted Lens, Pixilate)
Giratina-Origin (Magic Bounce, Prankster, Mold Breaker)
Groudon (Fur Coat, Soundproof)
Heatran (Magic Bounce, Levitate)
Heracross-Mega (Triage, Tinted Lens)
Hoopa-Unbound
Lucario-Mega (Steelworker)
Lugia (Aerilate, Magic Bounce)
Marowak-Alola (Tinted Lens, Tough Claws)
Nihilego (Sand Stream, Levitate)
Regirock (Sand Stream)
Reshiram (Turboblaze, Poison Heal, Desolate Land)
Sceptile-Mega
Stakataka (Steelworker, Sand Stream, Levitate)
Toxapex
Venusaur-Mega (Flash Fire)
Xurkitree (Galvanize)
Zeraora (Snow Warning, Teravolt)
Imposter XerneasA Rank
A+
Gengar-Mega GiratinaGroudon [Red Orb] Mewtwo-Mega-Y Shedinja Zygarde-CompleteA
Diancie-Mega Kyogre-Primal Mewtwo-Mega-XA-
Kartana YveltalB Rank
B+
Garchomp-Mega RegisteelB
Aerodactyl-Mega Arceus Dialga Ho-Oh Kangaskhan [Kangaskhanite] Kyurem-Black Magearna Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Regigigas/Slaking Tyranitar-MegaB-
Aegislash Audino-Mega Beedrill-Mega Blaziken-Mega Celesteela Chansey Cresselia Greninja-Ash Kyurem-White Slowbro-Mega Solgaleo ZekromC Rank
Charizard-Mega-Y (Poison Heal, Aerilate, Triage) Deoxys-Attack Ferrothorn Gyarados-Mega Metagross-Mega (Magic Bounce, Regenerator, Tough Claws) Necrozma-Ultra Palkia (Drizzle, Tinted Lens, Swift Swim) Pheromosa Rayquaza (Aerilate, Triage, Tough Claws)Sableye-Mega Scizor-Mega (Flash Fire) Steelix-Mega (Flash Fire, Prankster, Regenerator) Suicune (Magic Bounce) Swampert-Mega Tapu Fini (Fur Coat)D Rank
Aggron-Mega (Regenerator, Prankster) Ampharos-Mega (Prankster, Galvanize) Arceus-Steel (Multitype) Darmanitan-Zen (Regenerator, Fur Coat) Diancie Gardevoir-Mega (Tinted Lens, Pixilate) Giratina-Origin (Magic Bounce, Prankster, Mold Breaker) Groudon (Fur Coat, Soundproof) Heatran (Magic Bounce, Levitate) Heracross-Mega (Triage, Tinted Lens) Hoopa-Unbound Lucario-Mega (Steelworker) Lugia (Aerilate, Magic Bounce) Marowak-Alola (Tinted Lens, Tough Claws) Nihilego (Sand Stream, Levitate) Regirock (Sand Stream) Reshiram (Turboblaze, Poison Heal, Desolate Land) Sceptile-Mega Stakataka (Steelworker, Sand Stream, Levitate) Toxapex Venusaur-Mega (Flash Fire) Xurkitree (Galvanize) Zeraora (Snow Warning, Teravolt)Double PH TDS Variation by Marsopa Trump & Test Rex
[Balance - Poison Heal Yveltal + Tough Claws Beedrill-Mega]
Final Gambit Lunala by Chessking345
[Balance - Teravolt Lunala + Adaptability Gengar-Mega]
Legend of the Panda by Marsopa Trump & Test Rex
[Balance - Tough Claws Tyranitar-Mega + Tough Claws Beedrill-Mega]
Eons of Stars by Sectonia
[Balance - Magic Guard Diancie-Mega + Poison Heal Xerneas]
Triage Charizard by Chessking345
[Balance - Triage Charizard-Mega-Y + Poison Heal Xerneas]
Gensokyo Millenium by cityscapes
[Balance - Poison Heal Mewtwo-Mega-Y + Sturdy Shedinja]
Shed Stall 2019 by a person
[Stall - Sturdy Shedinja + Fur Coat Giratina]
[Balance - Poison Heal Yveltal + Tough Claws Beedrill-Mega]
This team has a solid defensive and offensive core. I chose ferrothorn over registeel to have a more solid answer to pheal spikes setter xerneas (without magma) that is rising in use (as well a spike setter pheal audino). Ferro is a nice mabouncer and got quite more usable post ray ban. In this variation I sack mmx and diancie and change them for yveltal and xerneas, both pheal. Xerneas was chosen for it utility to set spikes safely while bringing offensive power and the option to boost and sweep. Is hard imposterproofed by ferrothorn at +0 and+1, if its further boosted xern itself can still imposterproof (unless crit uh), letting imp set spikes but it also goes for you. Yveltal is chosen as a knock offer and u-turn punisher. I have a lot of oportinities to boost during a match and can punish spectral users with beak blast. It imposterproofs himself (unless crit uh x 2). Anchor stand for have a better mashup against audino, impostertrap and ocasionally trapping passive walls without stat control to boost in the face. Its a solid mon over all. This variation is a bit more defensive but still have enough offensive presence. Earth power in xern may be changed by nuzzle or another support move.
[Balance - Teravolt Lunala + Adaptability Gengar-Mega]
Fun team around a Ghost core. Lunala is immensely threatening to anything not Dark, which it just blows up and frees Gengar potential sweep. Zygarde Cresselia and Kyogre act as a weird but decently effective defensive core. Nuzzle and Spectrals are kinda the main setup check so be careful with opposing setup. Lead Imposter or Cresselia into Zyg or something. Sometimes Lunala is a better breaker so use Gengar to weaken checks. Dark Z part shot can be used to heal Lunala to blow up stuff if it’s chipped.
Team is susceptible to Guzzlord because Lunala doesn’t blow it up and it checks Gengar. Pursuit trappers are also threatening as 3 mons are weak to them. PH normals are also somewhat threatening as they are immune to the main methods of setup control, forcing the use of the offensive mons to check
Team is susceptible to Guzzlord because Lunala doesn’t blow it up and it checks Gengar. Pursuit trappers are also threatening as 3 mons are weak to them. PH normals are also somewhat threatening as they are immune to the main methods of setup control, forcing the use of the offensive mons to check
[Balance - Tough Claws Tyranitar-Mega + Tough Claws Beedrill-Mega]
The ttar is meant to be a pangoro but I dont want the team to get auto rejected lol. beedrill and ferro do similar jobs than in the other team. Fini works as a stallbreaker with infestation+scald which is a deadly combo. Its also a good rock setter. Darmanitan is a regenvest to solid block non-rock stab diancies (ferro block diancies with rock coverage and darm does so with diancie with fire coverage), refridge kyurems, refri or pixi mmx and blanket check for mmy, as well as being able to spred burns with happiness. Standard physical wall gira and ttar finish the team with his raw high power and the ability to trap mons with pursuit and remove items. The improofs are: ttar > fini (after orb activation), bee > fini and darmanitan, gira > ttar and ferro, ferro > darmanitan, fini > itself and ferro, darmanitan > fini and ttar.
[Balance - Magic Guard Diancie-Mega + Poison Heal Xerneas]
Built around the concept of Fairy-Spam, kinda. This team kinda struggles with Shedinja, hence why Necrozma-Dusk-Mane is carrying Sunsteel Strike. Xerneas is improofed by Ho-oh, Mega Diancie is improofed by Necrozma-Dusk-Mane. Honestly, I prefer the other team more because it has better ways of dealing with Shedinja, but this team did pretty decently on ladder.
[Balance - Triage Charizard-Mega-Y + Poison Heal Xerneas]
Generic Balance team. Main Breaker is Charizard-Y which can sweep very very easily. Tyranitar provides offensive support. Xerneas Toxapex Giratina form a defensive core, Imposter rounds off. Lead is usually Imposter but leading with Char-Y or Pex is ok too. Really try to get Orb activation super fast because your Improof requires it. Tyranitar has great longevity and isn't very scared of Imposter coming in as it is doing good damage while threatening Knock. Toxapex is your NormGar check and is a very good bouncer overall, you can switch it into a lot of defensive mons as well as PH Xern and MMX without much trouble. You want rocks off for Charizard to ease setup. Charizard is pretty easy to get in actually as it has a lot of longevity, Tail Glow is safe play pretty much unless opponent has pivoting and Imposter. If everything is weakened or checks eliminated PH Xern can clean late game which is cool. Team has 2 strong priority which helps against non DQM setup. Tyranitar and Chansey improof Charizard, Xerneas improofs Giratina and Tyranitar, Toxapex improofs Xerneas.
Team is not great against Gengar because Tyranitar dies to Sword, luckily DQM doesn't have the boost so Pex can soft check kinda. Kyurem-W is also kinda threatening because Toxapex isn't a switch-in.
Alternate options on the team are utility move over Volt Switch on Chary to ease improofing. Pursuit over Sucker Punch or Rock Blast on TTar to trap and dent some stuff. Shed Shell over Eviolite on Imposter. Knock Off over Spectral Thief on Toxapex to ease Gengar matchup (use Charizard to check Xern).
Team is not great against Gengar because Tyranitar dies to Sword, luckily DQM doesn't have the boost so Pex can soft check kinda. Kyurem-W is also kinda threatening because Toxapex isn't a switch-in.
Alternate options on the team are utility move over Volt Switch on Chary to ease improofing. Pursuit over Sucker Punch or Rock Blast on TTar to trap and dent some stuff. Shed Shell over Eviolite on Imposter. Knock Off over Spectral Thief on Toxapex to ease Gengar matchup (use Charizard to check Xern).
[Balance - Poison Heal Mewtwo-Mega-Y + Sturdy Shedinja]
similar to penguin (rip) and most other shed teams this team takes some getting used to, but it can be very powerful if played well. poison heal mmy is a neat set that can really go in vs weakened teams and teams that rely on passive mons like chans and registeel. pixilate xern is the secondary hazard setter, the hazard remover, and a pretty strong wallbreaker that can pick off some weakened resists unlike the ph set. imposter + shed is imposter + shed. hooh is the bouncer here because it beats nearly all hazard setters, similarly gira is the prankster because the team needs a blanket check to physical attackers.
watch out for specs gar that mons pretty annoying, youll need to make use of mmy + imposter + xern to retain momentum and eventually take it down. very uncommon pokemon though so dont worry about him too much
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-995280850 vs balance
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-995804166 vs stall
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-995811166 vs mmy spam
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-995816874 vs ghost spam
watch out for specs gar that mons pretty annoying, youll need to make use of mmy + imposter + xern to retain momentum and eventually take it down. very uncommon pokemon though so dont worry about him too much
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-995280850 vs balance
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-995804166 vs stall
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-995811166 vs mmy spam
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-995816874 vs ghost spam
[Stall - Sturdy Shedinja + Fur Coat Giratina]
There's nothing here
Main BH Thread (2017 | 2018 | 2019)
BH Central Resources (VR | Speed Tiers)
BH Setpedia
BH Suspects and Bans Thread
Creative and Underrated Sets
OM Bazaar
OM Teambuilding Shop
OM Analyses
OMGS II Playoffs | OMGS III Playoffs
OMPL V (Replays/Usage Stats | Post-OMPL Thread) | OMPL VI (Replays/Usage Stats | Post-OMPL Thread) | OMPL VII (Replays/Usage Stats | Post-OMPL Thread)
OMWC I (Replays/Usage Stats | Post-OMWC Thread) | OMWC II (no replay thread | Post-OMWC Thread)
BH Snake Draft (2018)
USUM BH Cup (2020)
BH Central Resources (VR | Speed Tiers)
BH Setpedia
BH Suspects and Bans Thread
Creative and Underrated Sets
OM Bazaar
OM Teambuilding Shop
OM Analyses
OMGS II Playoffs | OMGS III Playoffs
OMPL V (Replays/Usage Stats | Post-OMPL Thread) | OMPL VI (Replays/Usage Stats | Post-OMPL Thread) | OMPL VII (Replays/Usage Stats | Post-OMPL Thread)
OMWC I (Replays/Usage Stats | Post-OMWC Thread) | OMWC II (no replay thread | Post-OMWC Thread)
BH Snake Draft (2018)
USUM BH Cup (2020)
Individual:
/challenge gen7anythinggoes@@@!Obtainable Moves, !Obtainable Abilities, !Obtainable Formes, !EV Limit, OHKO Clause, Ability Clause = 2, CFZ Clause, -Comatose + Sleep Talk, Endless Battle Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Sleep Clause Mod, Forme Clause, -Gengarite, -Groudon-Primal, -Rayquaza-Mega, -Chatter, -Wonder Guard, -Pure Power, -Huge Power, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Shadow Tag, -Arena Trap, -Moody, -Water Bubble, -Innards Out, -Magnet Pull, -Stakeout, -Psychic Surge, -Illusion, -Contrary
Tournament:
/tour new gen7anythinggoes, elimination,,, Gen 7 BH
/tour rules !Obtainable Moves, !Obtainable Abilities, !Obtainable Formes, !EV Limit, OHKO Clause, Ability Clause = 2, CFZ Clause, -Comatose + Sleep Talk, Endless Battle Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Sleep Clause Mod, Forme Clause, -Gengarite, -Groudon-Primal, -Rayquaza-Mega, -Chatter, -Wonder Guard, -Pure Power, -Huge Power, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Shadow Tag, -Arena Trap, -Moody, -Water Bubble, -Innards Out, -Magnet Pull, -Stakeout, -Psychic Surge, -Illusion, -Contrary
/challenge gen7anythinggoes@@@!Obtainable Moves, !Obtainable Abilities, !Obtainable Formes, !EV Limit, OHKO Clause, Ability Clause = 2, CFZ Clause, -Comatose + Sleep Talk, Endless Battle Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Sleep Clause Mod, Forme Clause, -Gengarite, -Groudon-Primal, -Rayquaza-Mega, -Chatter, -Wonder Guard, -Pure Power, -Huge Power, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Shadow Tag, -Arena Trap, -Moody, -Water Bubble, -Innards Out, -Magnet Pull, -Stakeout, -Psychic Surge, -Illusion, -Contrary
Tournament:
/tour new gen7anythinggoes, elimination,,, Gen 7 BH
/tour rules !Obtainable Moves, !Obtainable Abilities, !Obtainable Formes, !EV Limit, OHKO Clause, Ability Clause = 2, CFZ Clause, -Comatose + Sleep Talk, Endless Battle Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Sleep Clause Mod, Forme Clause, -Gengarite, -Groudon-Primal, -Rayquaza-Mega, -Chatter, -Wonder Guard, -Pure Power, -Huge Power, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Shadow Tag, -Arena Trap, -Moody, -Water Bubble, -Innards Out, -Magnet Pull, -Stakeout, -Psychic Surge, -Illusion, -Contrary
Last edited:
ORAS Balanced Hackmons
- All applicable changes in more recent gens.
- 510 EV limit is enforced.
- Burn deals 12.5% per turn, not 6.25%.
- Soul Dew boosts Special Attack and Special Defense of Latios and Latias by 1.5x.
- Dark Void's accuracy is 80%, and is not restricted to Darkrai.
- Prankster-boosted status moves affect Dark-types.
- -ate abilities grant a 1.3x power boost, not 1.2x.
- Gale Wings grants +1 priority to all Flying-type attacks regardless of the user's HP.
- Base critical hit rate is 1/16 instead of 1/24.
- Normalize no longer boosts the power of affected moves.
Moves
Abilities
Pokemon
Clauses
Abilities
Pokemon
Clauses
- Ability Clause: No more than two Pokemon with the same ability per team. (Link)
- -Ate Clause: No more than one Pokemon with the ability Aerilate, Refrigerate or Pixilate per team (Link)
- Endless Battle Clause: Forcing an endless battle is banned, similar to the rest of PS
- Evasion Moves Clause: No moves that can increase Evasion are allowed. This does not include abilities or items that may modify Evasion passively such as Sand Veil or Brightpowder (Link)
S Rank
Chansey
Mega Diancie
Mega Rayquaza
A Rank
A+
Giratina
Mega Gengar
A
Aegislash
Groudon (Red Orb)
Mega Audino
Mega Mewtwo X
Mega Tyranitar
Registeel
A-
Dialga
Kyogre
Mega Latias
Mega Latios
Mega Mewtwo Y
Shedinja
B Rank
B+
Arceus
Kyurem-Black
Mega Garchomp
Mega Gyarados
Yveltal
B
Regigigas
Slaking
B-
Gengar
Groudon
Ho-Oh
Mega Blaziken
Mega Metagross
Regirock
Xerneas
C Rank
C+
Cresselia
Kyurem-White
Lugia
Mega Aerodactyl
Mega Aggron
Mega Sceptile
Mega Steelix
Mega Venusaur
Palkia
C
Deoxys-Attack
Deoxys-Speed
Hoopa-Unbound
Mega Scizor
Reshiram
C-
Giratina-Origin
Mega Swampert
Zekrom
D Rank
Ferrothorn
Heatran
Kangaskhan
Mawile
Mega Alakazam
Mega Ampharos
Mega Heracross
Mega Salamence
Pikachu
Chansey Mega Diancie Mega RayquazaA Rank
A+
Giratina Mega GengarA
Aegislash Groudon (Red Orb) Mega Audino Mega Mewtwo X Mega Tyranitar RegisteelA-
Dialga Kyogre Mega Latias Mega Latios Mega Mewtwo Y ShedinjaB Rank
B+
Arceus Kyurem-Black Mega GarchompMega GyaradosYveltalB
Regigigas SlakingB-
Gengar Groudon Ho-OhMega Blaziken Mega Metagross Regirock XerneasC Rank
C+
Cresselia Kyurem-White Lugia Mega Aerodactyl Mega Aggron Mega Sceptile Mega Steelix Mega Venusaur PalkiaC
Deoxys-AttackDeoxys-Speed Hoopa-Unbound Mega Scizor ReshiramC-
Giratina-Origin Mega Swampert ZekromD Rank
Ferrothorn Heatran Kangaskhan Mawile Mega Alakazam Mega Ampharos Mega Heracross Mega Salamence PikachuM-Ray + M-Tar Balance by Kingslayer2779
[Balance - Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega + Poison Heal Tyranitar-Mega]
Sandstorm Balance by HeadsILoseTailsYouWin
[Balance - RegenVest Regirock + Tinted Lens Dialga]
Bulky Nuke Offense by E4 Flint
[Offense - Tinted Lens Latios-Mega + Mold Breaker Mewtwo-Mega-X]
Semistall by highlighter
[Semi-stall - Fur Coat Groudon + Soundproof Tyranitar-Mega]
Balance by cauliflower1
[Balance - Scarf Mewtwo-Mega-X + Pixilate Diancie-Mega]
Gengar Balance by dragonite drake
[Balance - Gengarite Gengar + Magic Guard Diancie-Mega]
:
[Balance - Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega + Poison Heal Tyranitar-Mega]
Teambuilding: Generally when i build BH teams, i don't go out looking to build around a certain core or Pokemon. I often find that building that way leads to forcing cores that don't work. So generally i just try to "out do" the meta. The original team had Red Orb Groudon and Mega Rayquaza, but i switched to Mega Tyranitar for more of a "sweeper" and something else that beat Mega Ray's Counters. Speaking of Mega Ray, i chose a pretty standard set. Aerliate is good in just about any match up because it always beats something on the opponent's team. Mega Tyranitar is an amazing bulky PH set up sweeper, and beats almost all -ate counters. Mega Gengar traps and kills Shedinja, which can trouble both sets. Mega Ttar can beat Shed with Knock Off and Sacred Fire with a little bit of luck, but you might lose that match up. The main Defensive core of this team is Chansey and Giratina, backed up by Audino. Chans counters most -ate sets, MM2y and other powerful special attackers. Giratina can counter MM2x sets and Primal Groudon sets. Mega Audino synergies with the core by countering Knock Off users that otherwise trouble this team, such as Mega Tyranitar and Yveltal. It also counters Spooky Judgement sets such as Mega Gengar and Mega Mewtwo Y.
How to use this Team: Mega Tyranitar is the primary wincon, thanks to its natural bulk and Aerliate resistance, it can easily sweep many BH teams. If you wish to change this team i suggest building the other offensive sets more around eliminating its counters. The idea is to use the defensive core to switch into offensive threats and then pivot to Mega Tyranitar or Mega Ray. This pivoting also helps Mega Gengar trap Shedinja. Occasionally you will stall out a team, but it usually doesn't happen.
Why this Team Works:
Mega Tyranitar and Mega Ray eliminate most of the meta together. Both are good at wearing down potential counters. The defensive core can switch into most of the offensive threats in the meta. The team also carries good utility and support moves.
What Scares this Team.
Specs Mega Ray- 2hkos Chans, so no switch ins.
Diancie- we have a check in Gengar and a Counter in Chans, but it destroys everything else on the team. We would much rather see non Specs Mega Ray.
Sleep Spam- To be fair what BH team isn't a little scared of Sleep spam? Just try to stay on Tyranitar/Audino/Giratina, and hope you don't see something with Spore that beats them.
Tinted Lens Dialga- We can actually counter with Chans, but its still Sp00py.
Stall teams with multiple counters for Ray and TTar- can anyone say "bad matchup"
Replays-
Currently Down.
see the silly things thread.
Maybe Imas stops harassing me now y/y
How to use this Team: Mega Tyranitar is the primary wincon, thanks to its natural bulk and Aerliate resistance, it can easily sweep many BH teams. If you wish to change this team i suggest building the other offensive sets more around eliminating its counters. The idea is to use the defensive core to switch into offensive threats and then pivot to Mega Tyranitar or Mega Ray. This pivoting also helps Mega Gengar trap Shedinja. Occasionally you will stall out a team, but it usually doesn't happen.
Why this Team Works:
Mega Tyranitar and Mega Ray eliminate most of the meta together. Both are good at wearing down potential counters. The defensive core can switch into most of the offensive threats in the meta. The team also carries good utility and support moves.
What Scares this Team.
Specs Mega Ray- 2hkos Chans, so no switch ins.
Diancie- we have a check in Gengar and a Counter in Chans, but it destroys everything else on the team. We would much rather see non Specs Mega Ray.
Sleep Spam- To be fair what BH team isn't a little scared of Sleep spam? Just try to stay on Tyranitar/Audino/Giratina, and hope you don't see something with Spore that beats them.
Tinted Lens Dialga- We can actually counter with Chans, but its still Sp00py.
Stall teams with multiple counters for Ray and TTar- can anyone say "bad matchup"
Replays-
Currently Down.
Maybe Imas stops harassing me now y/y
[Balance - RegenVest Regirock + Tinted Lens Dialga]
How it works: Sand performs a multitude of useful functions in BH. Among these are killing non-safety goggles Shedinja, bolstering the Special Defense of Rock-type Pokémon massively, and adding pesky residual damage. This team is built around a core of Tinted Lens Dialga and Magnet Pull Xerneas with several pivots to allow both to switch in safely. Assault Vest Regirock is the go-to pivot when you want to get something in safely - With titanic 80/200 physical bulk, and base 100 Special Defense increased by both the Assault Vest and the Sandstorm, it is almost guaranteed to get a threat in safely. This team lacks Imposter support, so take care to not let anything get boosted out of control.
[Offense - Tinted Lens Latios-Mega + Mold Breaker Mewtwo-Mega-X]
How it Works:
Nothing too extraordinary. Use Registeel as your main damage absorber, phazor, status dealer, and pivot to try and get latios or megaray in as much as you can. Giratina PH can be used to come in on things that Registeel cannot take 2 hits from (see MewtwoMegaX that is not protean with DM). Latios is your primary form of nuking and does the job quite well, with Tinted Soul Dew basically making a mockery of the tier (Psystrike can ohko opposing Latios Mega for example). You can use MewtwoMegaX as a way to get in the faces of threatening Dark types, who can defeat Latios with Sucker/Pursuit mindgames, as well as set SR up against Steel types for Shedinja, or kill it directly. Registeel takes care of Imposters for Megaray and Latios, while Giratina can come in on m2x, and is itself resistant to Imposter. Since this team is so nuke and momentum oriented, it is wise to try and act quickly in the face of setup. Moves such as WW or Dragon Tail. can be added if you find yourself losing to them consistently. Overall it is a basic team that is a good place for new players to start out with and modify according to their needs and wants, while being good against the majority of the ladder as is. It is why I give this team out very often to beginning players and I'm sure others can attest to its success, with many of my sets, especially the Latios, found in other teams as well.
Notable Replay:
I can't seem to find many so I'll just post this:
Vs Adrian Marin (Prototype version of team)http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-189636134
Nothing too extraordinary. Use Registeel as your main damage absorber, phazor, status dealer, and pivot to try and get latios or megaray in as much as you can. Giratina PH can be used to come in on things that Registeel cannot take 2 hits from (see MewtwoMegaX that is not protean with DM). Latios is your primary form of nuking and does the job quite well, with Tinted Soul Dew basically making a mockery of the tier (Psystrike can ohko opposing Latios Mega for example). You can use MewtwoMegaX as a way to get in the faces of threatening Dark types, who can defeat Latios with Sucker/Pursuit mindgames, as well as set SR up against Steel types for Shedinja, or kill it directly. Registeel takes care of Imposters for Megaray and Latios, while Giratina can come in on m2x, and is itself resistant to Imposter. Since this team is so nuke and momentum oriented, it is wise to try and act quickly in the face of setup. Moves such as WW or Dragon Tail. can be added if you find yourself losing to them consistently. Overall it is a basic team that is a good place for new players to start out with and modify according to their needs and wants, while being good against the majority of the ladder as is. It is why I give this team out very often to beginning players and I'm sure others can attest to its success, with many of my sets, especially the Latios, found in other teams as well.
Notable Replay:
I can't seem to find many so I'll just post this:
Vs Adrian Marin (Prototype version of team)http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-189636134
[Semi-stall - Fur Coat Groudon + Soundproof Tyranitar-Mega]
How it Works:
Latios is the team's primary stall breaker, capable of 2HKOing most common walls thanks to Soul Dew. Pixilate turns Latios into a lure set, taking out Dark types such as Tyranitar and Yveltal who are expecting a Psystrike or Draco Meteor. Spore is for Fur Coat Chansey and Magma Storm for Shedinja. Max HP EV's lets Latios barely survive unboosted attacks from MMY or Gengar in order to retaliate with Psystrike or Boomburst (this is only if Soul Dew has not been removed). Aegislash is the team's primary -ate check, with Ho-Oh and Tyranitar serving as secondary -ate checks to Diancie and Rayquaza respectively. Aegislash's role includes hazard removal, preventing Trick with Mail, and eliminating status from the team through Aromatherapy. However, when using Aromatherapy you must ensure that Audino does not get its Toxic Orb removed, or it will lose its function as the team's main status absorber. Groudon will absorb nearly any physical attack thrown at it, and can successful wall both MMX and Poison Heal Tyranitar. Thousand Waves will trap and take out Imposters or physical attackers that lack recovery. Ice Shard is mainly for PP stalling but can also deal about 50% to Rayquaza if the need arises. Audino is the team's primary special wall, status absorber, and wish passer. It's great defenses and unique typing allow it to check most variants of MMY or Gengar. As long as it's in healthy condition, Audino can check the team's Latios if Tyranitar is down. Ho-Oh functions as the team's secondary special wall and will handle most special setup sweepers through Heart Swap and Oblivion Wing. Ho-Oh can also check Gengar in the case that it carries Sludge Wave/Bomb, which would take out Audino. Tyranitar's main job is to Imposterproof Latios and handle -ate Rayquaza's with only fire-type coverage. Thanks to Soundproof, Tyranitar can surprise Diancie's who aren't expecting it and in return deal massive damage with Diamond Storm. Tyranitar is also the team's only sort of form of revenge killing so try to prevent opponents from setting up too much.
Major threats to the team include Poison Heal Kyogre with Water Spout or Steam Eruption, Protean MMY with LO Boomburst, Primal-Groudon with V-create, and Gengar with Sludge Wave if rocks are up. Mixed Contrary Rayquaza can also prove to be a problem since the team lacks both Imposter and Shedinja. Also bear in mind that against HO teams, Latios is somewhat useless due to being outsped by most offensive threats.
Notable Replays:
Could only find these ones.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-314081735 vs Heisen
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-314085555 vs Draegon
Latios is the team's primary stall breaker, capable of 2HKOing most common walls thanks to Soul Dew. Pixilate turns Latios into a lure set, taking out Dark types such as Tyranitar and Yveltal who are expecting a Psystrike or Draco Meteor. Spore is for Fur Coat Chansey and Magma Storm for Shedinja. Max HP EV's lets Latios barely survive unboosted attacks from MMY or Gengar in order to retaliate with Psystrike or Boomburst (this is only if Soul Dew has not been removed). Aegislash is the team's primary -ate check, with Ho-Oh and Tyranitar serving as secondary -ate checks to Diancie and Rayquaza respectively. Aegislash's role includes hazard removal, preventing Trick with Mail, and eliminating status from the team through Aromatherapy. However, when using Aromatherapy you must ensure that Audino does not get its Toxic Orb removed, or it will lose its function as the team's main status absorber. Groudon will absorb nearly any physical attack thrown at it, and can successful wall both MMX and Poison Heal Tyranitar. Thousand Waves will trap and take out Imposters or physical attackers that lack recovery. Ice Shard is mainly for PP stalling but can also deal about 50% to Rayquaza if the need arises. Audino is the team's primary special wall, status absorber, and wish passer. It's great defenses and unique typing allow it to check most variants of MMY or Gengar. As long as it's in healthy condition, Audino can check the team's Latios if Tyranitar is down. Ho-Oh functions as the team's secondary special wall and will handle most special setup sweepers through Heart Swap and Oblivion Wing. Ho-Oh can also check Gengar in the case that it carries Sludge Wave/Bomb, which would take out Audino. Tyranitar's main job is to Imposterproof Latios and handle -ate Rayquaza's with only fire-type coverage. Thanks to Soundproof, Tyranitar can surprise Diancie's who aren't expecting it and in return deal massive damage with Diamond Storm. Tyranitar is also the team's only sort of form of revenge killing so try to prevent opponents from setting up too much.
Major threats to the team include Poison Heal Kyogre with Water Spout or Steam Eruption, Protean MMY with LO Boomburst, Primal-Groudon with V-create, and Gengar with Sludge Wave if rocks are up. Mixed Contrary Rayquaza can also prove to be a problem since the team lacks both Imposter and Shedinja. Also bear in mind that against HO teams, Latios is somewhat useless due to being outsped by most offensive threats.
Notable Replays:
Could only find these ones.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-314081735 vs Heisen
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-314085555 vs Draegon
[Balance - Scarf Mewtwo-Mega-X + Pixilate Diancie-Mega]
How it works:
The main idea with this team is to spam pixilate boomburst and use Dialga to break through whatever Diancie can't. Subpass Gira allows you to use boomburst safely, except vs another mon using boomburst. It also allows Dialga to stall an additional turn for Doom Desire to hit. Dark Void/Spore gives you free turns to sub pass and can also be a last ditch effort to stop sweepers. Heart swap allows Giratina to be a poor man's Chansey, except it actually works better vs PHOgre. Diancie is mostly standard; sub allows it to beat Dialga and takes advantage of purely defensive pivots, and magma storm allows it to keep the pressure on even if the opposing team has shed. It can also trap Chansey transformed into Dialga. Audino provides a switch-in to status, Megagar, and MMY, but the latter two can beat it with the right moves. Whirlwind makes it not setup fodder. Slowbro is the main -ate check, and it beats your own Diancie pretty easily, but it has to be a little cautious vs -ate pokemon that are invested in attack. Generally, try to keep it above 70% so it can take 2 espeeds. I put perish song there as a win condition and a way to stop the opponent from setting up, but it's probably not necessary. MMX can cripple something and beats shed. Close combat OHKO's fur coat Chansey which would otherwise be an issue.
Threats:
-ate pokemon with techno blast, LO MMY with boomburst, Latios, Megagar with sludge wave, and Gale wings Megaray. Hazards, especially toxic spikes, can be an issue since I have no defog support, but SR itself is not so bad.
The main idea with this team is to spam pixilate boomburst and use Dialga to break through whatever Diancie can't. Subpass Gira allows you to use boomburst safely, except vs another mon using boomburst. It also allows Dialga to stall an additional turn for Doom Desire to hit. Dark Void/Spore gives you free turns to sub pass and can also be a last ditch effort to stop sweepers. Heart swap allows Giratina to be a poor man's Chansey, except it actually works better vs PHOgre. Diancie is mostly standard; sub allows it to beat Dialga and takes advantage of purely defensive pivots, and magma storm allows it to keep the pressure on even if the opposing team has shed. It can also trap Chansey transformed into Dialga. Audino provides a switch-in to status, Megagar, and MMY, but the latter two can beat it with the right moves. Whirlwind makes it not setup fodder. Slowbro is the main -ate check, and it beats your own Diancie pretty easily, but it has to be a little cautious vs -ate pokemon that are invested in attack. Generally, try to keep it above 70% so it can take 2 espeeds. I put perish song there as a win condition and a way to stop the opponent from setting up, but it's probably not necessary. MMX can cripple something and beats shed. Close combat OHKO's fur coat Chansey which would otherwise be an issue.
Threats:
-ate pokemon with techno blast, LO MMY with boomburst, Latios, Megagar with sludge wave, and Gale wings Megaray. Hazards, especially toxic spikes, can be an issue since I have no defog support, but SR itself is not so bad.
[Balance - Gengarite Gengar + Magic Guard Diancie-Mega]
:How it works: This team is build around gengarite gengar w/ illusion. Rayquaza and diancie are the main wall breakers while aegi/regi are the main walls. gengar can switch into predicted status moves or pivoted into by aegislash. then encore trap the opponent and use the nicknames to play mind games with the opponent(all pokemons are nicked "i am not gengar").encore+disable is a nice way to deal with stall mons, while its two other moves are to trap and kill mons that are frail/ weak to it. registeel has priority taunt and parting shot to impsoster prove gengar, while aegislash's infestation+entrainment will help imposter prove diance and rayquaza. use registeel to deal with setup sweepers and to fast pivot.use chansey after opponents teams wall have been removed by gengar, or weakened by diance/rayquaza.
Main BH Thread (2014 | 2015 | 2016)
BH Central (asterat's VR | Heisenerg's VR | Kit Kasai's VR | Piccolo Daimao's VR | Uselesscrab's VR | Speed Tiers)
BH Suspect Discussion | BH Suspects and Bans Thread
Creative and Underrated Sets (Previous Thread)
OM Team Dump Thread (also see IT11's post here)
OM Teambuilding Shop
BH CCAT I | BH CCAT II
OMPL II (Week 1 | Week 2 | Week 3 | Week 4 | Week 5 | Finals) | OMPL III (Week 1 | Week 2 | Week 3 | Week 4 | Week 5 | Finals) | OMPL IV
BH Tour
BH Snake Draft
BH Central (asterat's VR | Heisenerg's VR | Kit Kasai's VR | Piccolo Daimao's VR | Uselesscrab's VR | Speed Tiers)
BH Suspect Discussion | BH Suspects and Bans Thread
Creative and Underrated Sets (Previous Thread)
OM Team Dump Thread (also see IT11's post here)
OM Teambuilding Shop
BH CCAT I | BH CCAT II
OMPL II (Week 1 | Week 2 | Week 3 | Week 4 | Week 5 | Finals) | OMPL III (Week 1 | Week 2 | Week 3 | Week 4 | Week 5 | Finals) | OMPL IV
BH Tour
BH Snake Draft
NOTE: GEN 6 BH HAS -ATE CLAUSE, WHICH CANNOT BE IMPLEMENTED WITH A CHALLENGE CODE. YOU NEED TO GENTLEMAN IT
Individual: /challenge gen6anythinggoes@@@!Obtainable Moves, !Obtainable Abilities, !Obtainable Formes, OHKO Clause, Ability Clause = 2, Endless Battle Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, -Assist, -Chatter, -Wonder Guard, -Pure Power, -Huge Power, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Shadow Tag, -Arena Trap, -Moody, -Groudon-Primal, -Kyogre-Primal
Tournaments:
/tour new gen6anythinggoes, elimination,,, Gen 6 BH
/tour rules !Obtainable Moves, !Obtainable Abilities, !Obtainable Formes, OHKO Clause, Ability Clause = 2, CFZ Clause, -Comatose + Sleep Talk, Endless Battle Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Sleep Clause Mod, Forme Clause, -Gengarite, -Groudon-Primal, -Rayquaza-Mega, -Chatter, -Wonder Guard, -Pure Power, -Huge Power, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Shadow Tag, -Arena Trap, -Moody, -Water Bubble, -Innards Out, -Magnet Pull, -Stakeout, -Psychic Surge, -Illusion, -Contrary
Individual: /challenge gen6anythinggoes@@@!Obtainable Moves, !Obtainable Abilities, !Obtainable Formes, OHKO Clause, Ability Clause = 2, Endless Battle Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, -Assist, -Chatter, -Wonder Guard, -Pure Power, -Huge Power, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Shadow Tag, -Arena Trap, -Moody, -Groudon-Primal, -Kyogre-Primal
Tournaments:
/tour new gen6anythinggoes, elimination,,, Gen 6 BH
/tour rules !Obtainable Moves, !Obtainable Abilities, !Obtainable Formes, OHKO Clause, Ability Clause = 2, CFZ Clause, -Comatose + Sleep Talk, Endless Battle Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Sleep Clause Mod, Forme Clause, -Gengarite, -Groudon-Primal, -Rayquaza-Mega, -Chatter, -Wonder Guard, -Pure Power, -Huge Power, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Shadow Tag, -Arena Trap, -Moody, -Water Bubble, -Innards Out, -Magnet Pull, -Stakeout, -Psychic Surge, -Illusion, -Contrary
Last edited:
BW Balanced HackmonsImportant mechanical changes betwee Gen 9 and 5:
- All applicable changes in more recent gens.
- No EV limit.
- No Fairy-type.
- No Terrains.
- No Team Preview.
- Knock Off is 20 BP and doesn't have a damage boost when removing an item.
- Critical damage is 2x original damage, not 1.5x.
- Grass-types aren't immune to powder moves.
- Steel resists Ghost and Dark.
- Infiltrator and sound moves don't bypass Substitute.
- Weather summoned by Drought, Drizzle, Snow Warning, and Sandstorm lasts until replaced.
- Pokestar Studios opponents are usable.
- Sleep turns reset when switching out.
- Defog doesn't remove hazards on the user's side.
- Some special moves like Draco Meteor, Hurricane, and Fire Blast have a slightly higher base power. Full list here.
Moves
- OHKO Moves
- Wonder Guard
- Pure/Huge Power
- Shadow Tag/Arena Trap
- Sleep Clause: Only one Pokemon on the opponent's team can be put to sleep at a time. This excludes self-inflicted sleep.
- Endless Battle Clause: Forcing an endless battle is banned.
S Rank
Latios (Contrary, weather ability, Mold Breaker, Regenerator)
A Rank
Arceus (Mold Breaker, Poison Heal, Unaware)
Chansey (Imposter)
Cresselia (Unaware)
Giratina (Magic Bounce, Poison Heal, weather setter, Unaware, Normalize)
Groudon (Illusion, Prankster, Poison Heal)
Ho-Oh (Magnet Pull, Magic Guard, Chlorophyll, Tinted Lens, Mold Breaker)
Kyogre (Drizzle, Swift Swim, Poison Heal, Mold Breaker)
Kyurem-Black (Adaptability)
Kyurem-White (Contrary)
Landorus-Therian (Prankster)
Palkia (Swift Swim)
Pokestar MT (Flash Fire, others)
Pokestar MT2 (Flash Fire, others)
Pokestar Spirit (Poison Heal, Unaware)
Rayquaza (Contrary, Illusion, Magic Guard)
Regigigas, Slaking (Poison Heal, Normalize)
Reshiram (Chlorophyll, Contrary)
B Rank
Archeops (Poison Heal, Magic Guard)
Dialga (weather setter, Regenerator, Adaptability)
Deoxys-Attack (Sheer Force, etc)
Giratina-Origin (Poison Heal, Normalize)
Infernape (Tinted Lens, Magnet Pull)
Jirachi (Dry Skin, etc)
Latias (see Latios)
Lugia (Magic Guard, etc)
Mewtwo (Sheer Force, Adaptability, some others)
Pokestar UFO (Magic Bounce)
Registeel (weather setter, Magic Bounce, etc)
Shaymin (Poison Heal, Drizzle)
Shedinja (Sturdy)
Tyranitar (Sand Stream, Levitate, Dry Skin, Poison Heal)
Zekrom (Poison Heal, Contrary)
C Rank
Arceus-Flying (Multitype)
Arceus-Rock (Multitype)
Arceus-Steel (Multitype)
Darkrai (No Guard, Poison Heal)
Deoxys-Speed (Mold Breaker, Poison Heal)
Ferrothorn (Flash Fire, Scrappy)
Genesect (No Guard)
Gengar (Normalize)
Keldeo (Tinted Lens, Drizzle, Poison Heal)
Landorus (Sheer Force)
Pokestar UFO2 (Mold Breaker)
Raikou (Dry Skin)
Scizor (Unaware, Dry Skin)
Shaymin-Sky (Sheer Force)
Suicune (Magic Bounce, Scrappy)
Terrakion (Magic Guard)
Thundurus-Therian (Sheer Force)
NEEDS FURTHER EXPLORATION
Other Multitype Arceus formes
Blissey (Imposter, Unaware, Poison Heal)
Pikachu (Imposter)
Pokestar Brycen-Man
Pokestar F-002
Pokestar Monster
Shuckle (Unaware)
Latios (Contrary, weather ability, Mold Breaker, Regenerator)A Rank
Arceus (Mold Breaker, Poison Heal, Unaware) Chansey (Imposter) Cresselia (Unaware) Giratina (Magic Bounce, Poison Heal, weather setter, Unaware, Normalize) Groudon (Illusion, Prankster, Poison Heal) Ho-Oh (Magnet Pull, Magic Guard, Chlorophyll, Tinted Lens, Mold Breaker) Kyogre (Drizzle, Swift Swim, Poison Heal, Mold Breaker) Kyurem-Black (Adaptability) Kyurem-White (Contrary) Landorus-Therian (Prankster) Palkia (Swift Swim) Pokestar MT (Flash Fire, others) Pokestar MT2 (Flash Fire, others) Pokestar Spirit (Poison Heal, Unaware) Rayquaza (Contrary, Illusion, Magic Guard) Regigigas, Slaking (Poison Heal, Normalize) Reshiram (Chlorophyll, Contrary)B Rank
Archeops (Poison Heal, Magic Guard) Dialga (weather setter, Regenerator, Adaptability) Deoxys-Attack (Sheer Force, etc) Giratina-Origin (Poison Heal, Normalize) Infernape (Tinted Lens, Magnet Pull) Jirachi (Dry Skin, etc) Latias (see Latios) Lugia (Magic Guard, etc) Mewtwo (Sheer Force, Adaptability, some others) Pokestar UFO (Magic Bounce) Registeel (weather setter, Magic Bounce, etc) Shaymin (Poison Heal, Drizzle) Shedinja (Sturdy) Tyranitar (Sand Stream, Levitate, Dry Skin, Poison Heal) Zekrom (Poison Heal, Contrary)C Rank
Arceus-Flying (Multitype) Arceus-Rock (Multitype) Arceus-Steel (Multitype) Darkrai (No Guard, Poison Heal) Deoxys-Speed (Mold Breaker, Poison Heal) Ferrothorn (Flash Fire, Scrappy) Genesect (No Guard) Gengar (Normalize) Keldeo (Tinted Lens, Drizzle, Poison Heal) Landorus (Sheer Force) Pokestar UFO2 (Mold Breaker) Raikou (Dry Skin) Scizor (Unaware, Dry Skin) Shaymin-Sky (Sheer Force) Suicune (Magic Bounce, Scrappy) Terrakion (Magic Guard) Thundurus-Therian (Sheer Force)NEEDS FURTHER EXPLORATION
Other Multitype Arceus formes Blissey (Imposter, Unaware, Poison Heal) Pikachu (Imposter) Pokestar Brycen-Man Pokestar F-002 Pokestar Monster Shuckle (Unaware)None Yet
Individual:
/challenge gen5ou@@@+Uber, !Obtainable Moves, !Obtainable Abilities, !Obtainable Formes, !EV Limit, OHKO Clause, -Wonder Guard, -Pure Power, -Huge Power, -Shadow Tag, -Arena Trap, Sleep Clause Mod, Endless Battle Clause
Tournament:
/tour new gen5ou, elimination,,, Gen 5 BH
/tour rules +Uber, !Obtainable Moves, !Obtainable Abilities, !Obtainable Formes, !EV Limit, OHKO Clause, -Wonder Guard, -Pure Power, -Huge Power, -Shadow Tag, -Arena Trap, Sleep Clause Mod, Endless Battle Clause
/challenge gen5ou@@@+Uber, !Obtainable Moves, !Obtainable Abilities, !Obtainable Formes, !EV Limit, OHKO Clause, -Wonder Guard, -Pure Power, -Huge Power, -Shadow Tag, -Arena Trap, Sleep Clause Mod, Endless Battle Clause
Tournament:
/tour new gen5ou, elimination,,, Gen 5 BH
/tour rules +Uber, !Obtainable Moves, !Obtainable Abilities, !Obtainable Formes, !EV Limit, OHKO Clause, -Wonder Guard, -Pure Power, -Huge Power, -Shadow Tag, -Arena Trap, Sleep Clause Mod, Endless Battle Clause
Last edited:
DPP Balanced Hackmons
Important mechanical changes between Gen 9 and 4:
- Magic Coat doesn't block hazards, Taunt, or Torment.
- Encore lasts between 3 and 7 turns.
- Explosion and Self-Destruct have doubled BP.
- Sturdy doesn't have the Focus Sash effect; it only grants immunity to OHKO moves.
- Magic Guard prevents full paralysis from happening.
- Tail Glow gives +2 Special Attack instead of +3.
- Wish restores 50% of the recipient's max HP, not the user's.
- All Rotom formes are Ghost/Electric.
Moves
- OHKO Moves
- Wonder Guard
- Pure/Huge Power
- Shadow Tag/Arena Trap
- Weather + Speed-Boosting Weather Ability
- Ability Clause: No more than two Pokemon with the same ability per team.
- Endless Battle Clause: Forcing an endless battle is banned, similar to the rest of PS
None Yet
None Yet
Individual:
/challenge gen4ou@@@+Uber, !Obtainable Moves, !Obtainable Abilities, !Obtainable Formes, !EV Limit, OHKO Clause, -Wonder Guard, -Pure Power, -Huge Power, -Shadow Tag, -Arena Trap, -Drizzle ++ Swift Swim, -Drought ++ Chlorophyll, Ability Clause = 2, Endless Battle Clause
Tournament:
/tour new gen4ou, elimination,,, Gen 4 BH
/tour rules +Uber, !Obtainable Moves, !Obtainable Abilities, !Obtainable Formes, !EV Limit, OHKO Clause, -Wonder Guard, -Pure Power, -Huge Power, -Shadow Tag, -Arena Trap, -Drizzle ++ Swift Swim, -Drought ++ Chlorophyll, Ability Clause = 2, Endless Battle Clause
/challenge gen4ou@@@+Uber, !Obtainable Moves, !Obtainable Abilities, !Obtainable Formes, !EV Limit, OHKO Clause, -Wonder Guard, -Pure Power, -Huge Power, -Shadow Tag, -Arena Trap, -Drizzle ++ Swift Swim, -Drought ++ Chlorophyll, Ability Clause = 2, Endless Battle Clause
Tournament:
/tour new gen4ou, elimination,,, Gen 4 BH
/tour rules +Uber, !Obtainable Moves, !Obtainable Abilities, !Obtainable Formes, !EV Limit, OHKO Clause, -Wonder Guard, -Pure Power, -Huge Power, -Shadow Tag, -Arena Trap, -Drizzle ++ Swift Swim, -Drought ++ Chlorophyll, Ability Clause = 2, Endless Battle Clause
Last edited:
RBY Balanced Hackmons
Important mechanical changes from Gen 9 to 1:
- Special Attack and Special Defense are compressed into Special, with a Pokemon's would-be Special Attack being its Special.
- Frozen Pokemon don't naturally thaw; they need to be hit with Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Haze, or Ember.
- Waking up from sleep uses a Pokemon's turn.
- Toxic Poison becomes regular Poison after switching.
- Leech Seed saps 1/16 x target's Toxic counter.
- Haze removes all stat boosts, an opponent's major status, and all "minor" status like Leech Seed and Reflect.
- Hyper Beam has no recharge turn if it KOes the target.
- Disable, Leech Seed, sleep, confusion, and primary paralysis bypass Substitute.
- Roar and Whirlwind do nothing.
- Crit rate is tied to Speed, and moves with high crit rate have 8x base.
- Pokemon can be pre-statused by equipping PAR, SLP, PSN, BRN, or FRZ in the item slot. This is self-inflicted, so bypasses Freeze and Sleep clauses.
- Reflect and Light Screen double the user's Defense and Special when taking tamage, lasting until the user switches out.
- Pokemon can be up to level 255.
- Missingno. is usable.
Playable on http://rby.psim.us/.
Moves
- Bind
- Clamp
- Dig
- Fire Spin
- Fly
- Wrap
- Mewtwo
- Endless Battle Clause: Forcing an endless battle is banned, similar to the rest of PS
- Freeze Clause: Only one Pokemon on the opponent's team can be frozen at a time. This excludes self-inflicted freeze.
- OHKO Clause: OHKO moves are banned.
- Sleep Clause: Only one Pokemon on the opponent's team can be put to sleep at a time. This excludes self-inflicted sleep.
None Yet
None Yet
Individual:
/challenge gen1ou@@@!Obtainable Moves, +Mew, -Bind, -Clamp, -Dig, -Fire Spin, -Fly, -Wrap, Endless Battle Clause, OHKO Clause, Sleep Clause Mod, Freeze Clause Mod
Tournament:
/tour new gen1ou, elimination,,, Gen 1 BH
/tour rules !Obtainable Moves, +Mew, -Bind, -Clamp, -Dig, -Fire Spin, -Fly, -Wrap, Endless Battle Clause, OHKO Clause, Sleep Clause Mod, Freeze Clause Mod
/challenge gen1ou@@@!Obtainable Moves, +Mew, -Bind, -Clamp, -Dig, -Fire Spin, -Fly, -Wrap, Endless Battle Clause, OHKO Clause, Sleep Clause Mod, Freeze Clause Mod
Tournament:
/tour new gen1ou, elimination,,, Gen 1 BH
/tour rules !Obtainable Moves, +Mew, -Bind, -Clamp, -Dig, -Fire Spin, -Fly, -Wrap, Endless Battle Clause, OHKO Clause, Sleep Clause Mod, Freeze Clause Mod
Last edited:
Some Gen 4 replays:
Ghostceus Spam 0
Stall vs. dumb player
Ghostceus Spam 1 (PH Explosion)
Ghostceus Spam 2 (Drum Spam)
P.S. Arceus needs Multitype to keep its type in Gen 4.
Some Conclusions:
1. Gen 4 BH really needs Sleep Clause.
2. Explosion the best move besides Spore.
3. BDrum seems to be also broken for some reason (actually for no reason lol).
4. I don't know why but no one used Lati@s. They do need exploration.
5. In case you don't know, Imposter doesn't exist in Gen 4.
Ghostceus Spam 0
Stall vs. dumb player
Ghostceus Spam 1 (PH Explosion)
Ghostceus Spam 2 (Drum Spam)
P.S. Arceus needs Multitype to keep its type in Gen 4.
Some Conclusions:
1. Gen 4 BH really needs Sleep Clause.
2. Explosion the best move besides Spore.
3. BDrum seems to be also broken for some reason (actually for no reason lol).
4. I don't know why but no one used Lati@s. They do need exploration.
5. In case you don't know, Imposter doesn't exist in Gen 4.
Personal RBY Balanced Hackmons Viability Rankings:
S: Electrode Tauros Starmie
A+:
A: Alakazam Snorlax
B+: Aerodactyl Chansey Persian
B:
C+: Dodrio
C: Gengar Mew
D: Machamp Scyther
S: Electrode Tauros Starmie
A+:
A: Alakazam Snorlax
B+: Aerodactyl Chansey Persian
B:
C+: Dodrio
C: Gengar Mew
D: Machamp Scyther
These metas have challenge codes now! Gens 6-8 are AG Based, whereas Gens 5, 4, and 1 are OU-based. All have both individual challenge codes and tournament challenge codes. Check the spoiler tags for each meta.
I normally don’t delve into BH, but I do like the concept and I noticed that earlier BH generations don’t seem to have bad as active tiering by their respective councils when they were current gens. An EV-limited BH metagame sounds like it could have potential, but looking at the resources/thread for ORAS I felt that the transition from a Slightly-Impure Hackmons to a truly balanced metagame was incomplete, and I wanted to suggest some tiering action in case this starts being played again. I have almost no BH background, but I know Gen 6 PH better than anyone else, and understand what aspects could be transitive to a no Wonder Guard/OHKO/trapping Ability/Huge Power metagame, so I do think my takes have some merit but please take them with a grain of salt.
i felt like posting because apparently unrestricted sleep is legal
Obvious Bans (even to outsiders like me):
Less Obvious Bans:
Other Potential Bans:
Potential Unbans:
Again, keep in mind that I have no direct Gen 6 BH experience (or much BH experience in general) and these are just my takes after having seen the samples/viability rankings/part of the thread.
i felt like posting because apparently unrestricted sleep is legal
Obvious Bans (even to outsiders like me):
- Contrary (broken from the get go, because you have to immediately come in on your PrankHazer, hope your Unaware user won’t get broken through (it probably will), or hope the Contrary user isn’t Imposter-proofed (I’ve seen Flash Fire/Primordial Sea in other gens so I’m assuming they’re usable here as well). If not obviously broken it is overly restrictive on building to be justifiable in BH
- Magnet Pull (trapping Abilities are never okay)
- Mega Rayquaza (egregiously broken even without Aerilate, could probably run physical and special sets that both maul Imposter and have strictly different counterplay. Mixed sets sound unwallable as well if properly built)
- Sleep Moves (apparently there’s no Sleep Clause in this metagame either, Dark Void is the most busted move in Pure Hackmons and there’s no way it is meaningfully less egregious in BH)
- Shell Smash (broken ESPECIALLY in an EV-limited metagame, and there is no shortage of Pokemon that could make use of both offensive stats (Mega Diancie/Xerneas/Zekrom come to mind) or be overbearing with +2 SpA/Spe in one turn (Mega Rayquaza/Mega Lati@s/Mega Gengar/Red Orb Groudon?), all of which could conceivably be Imposter-proofed with careful building)
- Magnet Pull (trapping Abilities are never okay)
- Mega Rayquaza (egregiously broken even without Aerilate, could probably run physical and special sets that both maul Imposter and have strictly different counterplay. Mixed sets sound unwallable as well if properly built)
- Sleep Moves (apparently there’s no Sleep Clause in this metagame either, Dark Void is the most busted move in Pure Hackmons and there’s no way it is meaningfully less egregious in BH)
- Shell Smash (broken ESPECIALLY in an EV-limited metagame, and there is no shortage of Pokemon that could make use of both offensive stats (Mega Diancie/Xerneas/Zekrom come to mind) or be overbearing with +2 SpA/Spe in one turn (Mega Rayquaza/Mega Lati@s/Mega Gengar/Red Orb Groudon?), all of which could conceivably be Imposter-proofed with careful building)
- Belly Drum (admittedly harder to pull off than in other generations due to offensive Pokémon’s lower bulk, but users do have a easier time OHKOing Imposter users afterwards and the move has the same issues competitively as in other generations. Probably quite hard to argue Belly Drum isn’t banworthy)
- Full -ate Ban (I do think -ates are too strong in an EV-limited metagame without Wonder Guard, even if they have an enormous positive impact in an otherwise insanely offensive metagame. Specific counterplay can lose to variants that apparently aren’t too uncommon (Techno Blast to hit Soundproof mons, for example), and coverage is always an option, though to be fair that’s the same with everything else. An EV-limited metagame requires an inherently lower offensive power level to maintain the same level of balance as in later generations, and I don’t think a Pure Hackmons-modeled metagame (that’s basically held together by absurdly strong revenging) cuts it in the balance department. If -ates were to be fully banned there would still be usable priority regardless, with Extreme Speed Normal-types and Sucker Punch/Pursuit Dark-types akin to Huge Power Mega Gyarados/Mega Tyranitar in Pure Hackmons. I understand that this would be a profound change, though, and that I might lack the knowledge to credibly call for metagame-transforming action)
- Tail Glow (Powerful Tail Glow users seem overbearing in a metagame where specially defensive Pokemon are more vulnerable to Secret Sword/Psystrike than in other generations)
- Full -ate Ban (I do think -ates are too strong in an EV-limited metagame without Wonder Guard, even if they have an enormous positive impact in an otherwise insanely offensive metagame. Specific counterplay can lose to variants that apparently aren’t too uncommon (Techno Blast to hit Soundproof mons, for example), and coverage is always an option, though to be fair that’s the same with everything else. An EV-limited metagame requires an inherently lower offensive power level to maintain the same level of balance as in later generations, and I don’t think a Pure Hackmons-modeled metagame (that’s basically held together by absurdly strong revenging) cuts it in the balance department. If -ates were to be fully banned there would still be usable priority regardless, with Extreme Speed Normal-types and Sucker Punch/Pursuit Dark-types akin to Huge Power Mega Gyarados/Mega Tyranitar in Pure Hackmons. I understand that this would be a profound change, though, and that I might lack the knowledge to credibly call for metagame-transforming action)
- Tail Glow (Powerful Tail Glow users seem overbearing in a metagame where specially defensive Pokemon are more vulnerable to Secret Sword/Psystrike than in other generations)
- Mega Gengar (repeatedly eating Secret Swords isn’t fun for anything in an EV-limited metagame, and most of what can loses to Ghost-type Judgment. In Pure Hackmons Gengar’s limited by heavy revenge-killing, I’m not sure if Gengar would be balanced in a less priority-based metagame)
- Mega Mewtwo Y (stab Psystrike/Psycho Boost and insane Special Attack to fire off coverage from, Speed is also almost unmatched. In Pure Hackmons non-Wonder Guard MMY is fine but not amazing because it’s vulnerable to revenging, but if -ates we’re to be removed I’m not sure a Pokemon as strong/fast as MMY would be healthy. Might have trouble with Imposter-proofing but I’m sure it could be done)
- Shedinja (in theory is centralizing to an unhealthy degree - unlike in Gen 7 BH, there are no Mold Breaker moves, forcing offensive Pokemon to resort to residual damage from specific attacks like Magma Storm/Infestation, Mold Breaker, or hazards/Sand support/status to take it down (as far as I know). In Gen 7 Shedinja is healthy because counterplay isn’t as specific to it and it helps with other insane damage-dealers in the metagame, but from what I know taking Shedinja down in Gen 6 requires too specific an effort (2/3 of the samples atm have a Mold Breaker + Pursuit user). I personally think that lowering the offensive power level to a level where a restrictor like Shedinja is unnecessary for the health of the metagame is the way to go)
latios/soul dew (overpowers everything in ph without offensive counterplay, probably the same here especially bc psystrike + special dragon move)
- Soul Dew/Mega Latios (might hit too hard for a non-Choiced Pokemon, not sure what would wall Tinted Lens/Adaptability/Pixilate or any other potentially viable sets. Difficulty to Imposter-proof might save it though, even if Imposter loses out on the damage amp from Soul Dew)
- Mega Mewtwo Y (stab Psystrike/Psycho Boost and insane Special Attack to fire off coverage from, Speed is also almost unmatched. In Pure Hackmons non-Wonder Guard MMY is fine but not amazing because it’s vulnerable to revenging, but if -ates we’re to be removed I’m not sure a Pokemon as strong/fast as MMY would be healthy. Might have trouble with Imposter-proofing but I’m sure it could be done)
- Shedinja (in theory is centralizing to an unhealthy degree - unlike in Gen 7 BH, there are no Mold Breaker moves, forcing offensive Pokemon to resort to residual damage from specific attacks like Magma Storm/Infestation, Mold Breaker, or hazards/Sand support/status to take it down (as far as I know). In Gen 7 Shedinja is healthy because counterplay isn’t as specific to it and it helps with other insane damage-dealers in the metagame, but from what I know taking Shedinja down in Gen 6 requires too specific an effort (2/3 of the samples atm have a Mold Breaker + Pursuit user). I personally think that lowering the offensive power level to a level where a restrictor like Shedinja is unnecessary for the health of the metagame is the way to go)
latios/soul dew (overpowers everything in ph without offensive counterplay, probably the same here especially bc psystrike + special dragon move)
- Soul Dew/Mega Latios (might hit too hard for a non-Choiced Pokemon, not sure what would wall Tinted Lens/Adaptability/Pixilate or any other potentially viable sets. Difficulty to Imposter-proof might save it though, even if Imposter loses out on the damage amp from Soul Dew)
- Assist (my experience with Assist is that it is really only overbearing when the user has an Ability that really abuses it or the move it is calling (the most notable being Prankster). And as far as I know the only Pokemon that genuinely breaks Assist (pre-Revival Blessing) is Primal Groudon, which can’t make use of Prankster or a damage-boosting Ability here assuming Thousand Arrows is called. V-create could be usable, but at that point you might as well just use the actual move because you can actually run other non-phasing/protection moves and you can Imposter-proof with a fat Dragon-type either way. An Assist ban feels redundant to me, though I haven’t tried Assist on anything besides Primal Groudon-centered teams so I could be wrong)
- Primal Kyogre (I know this was banned via suspect test but I highly doubt this is broken, especially without sleep support - as far as I know 3 suspects were occurring at the same time. Assuming it isn’t, it probably would actually be a net positive for the metagame as it would soft check special mons in general more effectively than base Kyogre would (and it isn’t Secret Sword weak, though it takes a ton from unboosted Psystrike Latios). Again I could be wrong though)
- Remove 2AC eventually (this feels like a bandaid measure to promote a degree of balance, though it wouldn’t be needed if steps were made with balance rather than preserving as much as possible at the cost of playability. No disrespect towards the leaders of the day, from what I know the general sentiment was different when ORAS was current gen)
- Primal Kyogre (I know this was banned via suspect test but I highly doubt this is broken, especially without sleep support - as far as I know 3 suspects were occurring at the same time. Assuming it isn’t, it probably would actually be a net positive for the metagame as it would soft check special mons in general more effectively than base Kyogre would (and it isn’t Secret Sword weak, though it takes a ton from unboosted Psystrike Latios). Again I could be wrong though)
- Remove 2AC eventually (this feels like a bandaid measure to promote a degree of balance, though it wouldn’t be needed if steps were made with balance rather than preserving as much as possible at the cost of playability. No disrespect towards the leaders of the day, from what I know the general sentiment was different when ORAS was current gen)
Disclaimer: I originally planned to post this alongside many other team dumps/meta thoughts of main OMs on the gen 8 threads shortly after Circuit Playoffs. However, things happened, the posts I wanted to write were pretty long and I was already behind on gen 9. After that, the biggest disaster happened and I accidentally deleted my teams without backup. With the SS OM tour come to light however, I figured it's time to restart the effort I put in 7 months ago (This started in my sandbox on Jan 1st), especially when this BH post was almost done but I couldn't find the motivation to finish it. I might not be able to finish all the other posts and just dump teams instead. However, at the very least I feel like I might try to scavenge the lost teams, either through memory, past PM or replays. This post is currently incomplete (only the table though), but the only way I can get my body to finish this is to post this version and fill in the details later.
Gen 8 BH meta has pretty much settled, although I think there are still rooms for some creativity.
I made this as my first team. Looking at it now, it just gets 6-0ed by Shift Gear Ho-Oh so I don't think I will use it without adjustments (Probably changing Groudon to Suicune or Fini). But the idea at the time was I saw very few Mewtwo and thought it was pretty cool to build around. Photon Geyser 2HKOs most Scales mons, Secret Sword for RegenVest Dialga and Ice Beam for Zygod. NDM was something that can utilize Unburden with Psychic Terrain, which also somewhat improofs itself with Poltergeist, though Poltergeist doesn't really outdamage Glacial Lance that much so Chansey should be chipped a bit ideally. Yveltal improofs Mewtwo pretty well and can also catch mons like Pixilate Xerneas off guard with Metal Burst. Depending on opposition, Knock Off can be used more mindlessly to remove Imposter's item, AV to pave the way for Mewtwo but against matchups where NDM is more likely to clean with Poltergeist than Mewtwo can break (like against Lunala), then Knock Off should be used sparingly. Groudon punishes RegenVest, allowing Mewtwo to beat RegenVest with just one switch-in, and also can switch in against Regigigas in an emergency. It also beats Zama without pivot by taking any ability from it I guess but that's rare.
This is a pretty wack offense build, but it has put in good work for me so far. Yveltal is like those Acupressure receiver except it tries to do things by itself, which can work because of the surprise factor while also dunking any non-Haze Prankster without using Imprison, which gives it some more rooms to do stuffs. It can also punish Nuzzle as well which is pretty cool. However, Zamazenta and Xerneas are definitely big roadblocks for it since they can take a Power Trip after No Retreat. Solgaleo baits Zamazenta in and takes it down with Final Gambit while also catching Ho-Oh off guard. Zamazenta improofs the set pretty well by forcing the Imposter to Final Gambit. While it can't actually touch Xerneas, Swords Dance means it won't really dare switch in, and even if it does Zama only needs to wear it down for Yveltal, keeping it low with Magic Bounce. Xerneas thus can keep offensive pressure and clears hazards at the same time. Lunala's set is pretty typical. Eternatus is where I'm most unsure of. Final Gambit and Rock are very useful but I have never clicked Screens even once, so there are rooms for improvement for sure.
I had my eyes on Rayquaza as a mixed attacker. Palkia for once is more prepped for, so I figure I can go with this Ray set, which isn't as powerful but doesn't rely on hazard removal as much. Brave Bird's PP also ensures it outlasts all variants of Zam. I wanted the HARDEST improof for it, which was how Diancie was born. It also does deal with some Pokemon like non-Blades Gigas, Ho-Oh and KO Xerneas if it switches in against Ray to Strength Sap so it's not exactly a dead slot. I just jampacked the rest of the team with defense core to support it, which might not be the best but I was confident that Ray could break anything so I was fine with some passivity.
Trick Room might not be the most viable archetype in BH, but with how rampant Nuzzle spam became, it might have a place, and it's not a matchup fish either because literally every team has at least some form of Para spreading. Guts Band Gigas with Facade makes sure it can eradicate any Pokemon, and it needs no improof when Imposter deals no damage without Band and Guts. Caly is the secondary breaker, which is improofed nicely by Mag while still breaking opposing PrimSea Mag since only Band Glacial 2HKOs. However, setting Trick Room can get complicated, as it's essentially giving opponents 2 free turns if they see it coming, so just running TR/Teleport/Recovery just gives some free boosts/hazards if they have ways to deal with the breakers under TR, like priority, Sub or just straight up nuking the setters and getting predictions correctly. That's not to mention using Imposter or other ways to directly mess with setting TR. Therefore, I found running some more defensive presence can mitigate some of these, though towards the end with the meta shaping I guess you could get away with having one extra setter and one breaker like Marowak-A.
I was never able to finish this team, since there are many factors that can thwart FEAR's game plan. Primal weathers, Magic Guard, entry hazards and Ghost-types are without a doubt the biggest threats, which makes it kinda hard to cover all of them. Of course, multi-hit moves are also instant loss unless Prankster DBond, which just further worsens other mu. In the end, I think it's still possible to come up with a semi viable FEAR build, but you will have to accept bad mu.
This team is pretty unoptimal without anything special, except the Yveltal I guess which happened when I tried looking for some unique ways to improof, but isn't that good anyway.
A result of exploring, I felt like Tyranitar had enough merits for something like Magic Guard, especially with something like Sticky Barb. It threatens most common MG user in Ho-Oh. It also doesn't need Trick since Knock Off already allows a foe to get it by making contact. However, it does require a good prediction to work, as it can easily get forced out by many types. That's why Zama has Knock Off to target mons that TTar can't stay in against. TTar kinda loses some of its defensive value with PrimSea Zama already keeping Deso Ho-Oh and non Blades Gigas in check so I guess this team might not be the best. I haven't used this though so who knows.
Nothing really special, I just wanted to finish Steely Desire idea I initially had but after that other people already explored that before I put my hands on BH. Zama's 248 SpD EVs ensure it's OHKOed by +4 Earth Power from Eternatus.
Dragon and Ghost is a lethal combo, pretty much covering everything at least neutrally. The mixed moveset also handles FurScales, while any attack clicked dents Imposter heavily. Chansey is a natural partner to improof, which also improofs Xerneas. Bounce Ho-Oh pressures opposing Xern and also provides para for Gira. Cele deals with Ho-Oh and Etern. Zama deals with no V-Create Gigas.
I did have some other ideas that I never finished, but probably not as optimal as others. I think some kind of trapper can succeed here even without Impform, which is my favorite playstyle. Anchor Shot + Encore for example can stall out of PP. Beyond that though, gen 8 BH doesn't have as many viable Pokemon as gen 7, so it's understandable that it isn't as diverse. Regigigas is definitely the strongest Pokemon in the meta right now, with Xerneas being slightly behind. With different sets that can cover pretty much different things, like Dragon Tail to force out Fur Coat Giratina or Core Enforcer users in general while also gaining free turns or just Nuzzle to spread para, Regigigas essentially always makes progress while providing utility at the same time. Xerneas is also a wallbreaker, but its role of being an offensive spinner shone more towards the end. After that, pretty much everything else revolves around those mons. The unique Imposter part also means that when crafting new sets it might be better to go with Improof first before thinking what can utilize the set well. So here I lay out some ideas that I came up with that I think is the closest to viable (that hasn't been done or common yet).
NOTE: INCOMPLETE. WILL TRY TO FINISH
Gen 8 BH meta has pretty much settled, although I think there are still rooms for some creativity.
I made this as my first team. Looking at it now, it just gets 6-0ed by Shift Gear Ho-Oh so I don't think I will use it without adjustments (Probably changing Groudon to Suicune or Fini). But the idea at the time was I saw very few Mewtwo and thought it was pretty cool to build around. Photon Geyser 2HKOs most Scales mons, Secret Sword for RegenVest Dialga and Ice Beam for Zygod. NDM was something that can utilize Unburden with Psychic Terrain, which also somewhat improofs itself with Poltergeist, though Poltergeist doesn't really outdamage Glacial Lance that much so Chansey should be chipped a bit ideally. Yveltal improofs Mewtwo pretty well and can also catch mons like Pixilate Xerneas off guard with Metal Burst. Depending on opposition, Knock Off can be used more mindlessly to remove Imposter's item, AV to pave the way for Mewtwo but against matchups where NDM is more likely to clean with Poltergeist than Mewtwo can break (like against Lunala), then Knock Off should be used sparingly. Groudon punishes RegenVest, allowing Mewtwo to beat RegenVest with just one switch-in, and also can switch in against Regigigas in an emergency. It also beats Zama without pivot by taking any ability from it I guess but that's rare.
This is a pretty wack offense build, but it has put in good work for me so far. Yveltal is like those Acupressure receiver except it tries to do things by itself, which can work because of the surprise factor while also dunking any non-Haze Prankster without using Imprison, which gives it some more rooms to do stuffs. It can also punish Nuzzle as well which is pretty cool. However, Zamazenta and Xerneas are definitely big roadblocks for it since they can take a Power Trip after No Retreat. Solgaleo baits Zamazenta in and takes it down with Final Gambit while also catching Ho-Oh off guard. Zamazenta improofs the set pretty well by forcing the Imposter to Final Gambit. While it can't actually touch Xerneas, Swords Dance means it won't really dare switch in, and even if it does Zama only needs to wear it down for Yveltal, keeping it low with Magic Bounce. Xerneas thus can keep offensive pressure and clears hazards at the same time. Lunala's set is pretty typical. Eternatus is where I'm most unsure of. Final Gambit and Rock are very useful but I have never clicked Screens even once, so there are rooms for improvement for sure.
I had my eyes on Rayquaza as a mixed attacker. Palkia for once is more prepped for, so I figure I can go with this Ray set, which isn't as powerful but doesn't rely on hazard removal as much. Brave Bird's PP also ensures it outlasts all variants of Zam. I wanted the HARDEST improof for it, which was how Diancie was born. It also does deal with some Pokemon like non-Blades Gigas, Ho-Oh and KO Xerneas if it switches in against Ray to Strength Sap so it's not exactly a dead slot. I just jampacked the rest of the team with defense core to support it, which might not be the best but I was confident that Ray could break anything so I was fine with some passivity.
Trick Room might not be the most viable archetype in BH, but with how rampant Nuzzle spam became, it might have a place, and it's not a matchup fish either because literally every team has at least some form of Para spreading. Guts Band Gigas with Facade makes sure it can eradicate any Pokemon, and it needs no improof when Imposter deals no damage without Band and Guts. Caly is the secondary breaker, which is improofed nicely by Mag while still breaking opposing PrimSea Mag since only Band Glacial 2HKOs. However, setting Trick Room can get complicated, as it's essentially giving opponents 2 free turns if they see it coming, so just running TR/Teleport/Recovery just gives some free boosts/hazards if they have ways to deal with the breakers under TR, like priority, Sub or just straight up nuking the setters and getting predictions correctly. That's not to mention using Imposter or other ways to directly mess with setting TR. Therefore, I found running some more defensive presence can mitigate some of these, though towards the end with the meta shaping I guess you could get away with having one extra setter and one breaker like Marowak-A.
I was never able to finish this team, since there are many factors that can thwart FEAR's game plan. Primal weathers, Magic Guard, entry hazards and Ghost-types are without a doubt the biggest threats, which makes it kinda hard to cover all of them. Of course, multi-hit moves are also instant loss unless Prankster DBond, which just further worsens other mu. In the end, I think it's still possible to come up with a semi viable FEAR build, but you will have to accept bad mu.
This team is pretty unoptimal without anything special, except the Yveltal I guess which happened when I tried looking for some unique ways to improof, but isn't that good anyway.
A result of exploring, I felt like Tyranitar had enough merits for something like Magic Guard, especially with something like Sticky Barb. It threatens most common MG user in Ho-Oh. It also doesn't need Trick since Knock Off already allows a foe to get it by making contact. However, it does require a good prediction to work, as it can easily get forced out by many types. That's why Zama has Knock Off to target mons that TTar can't stay in against. TTar kinda loses some of its defensive value with PrimSea Zama already keeping Deso Ho-Oh and non Blades Gigas in check so I guess this team might not be the best. I haven't used this though so who knows.
Nothing really special, I just wanted to finish Steely Desire idea I initially had but after that other people already explored that before I put my hands on BH. Zama's 248 SpD EVs ensure it's OHKOed by +4 Earth Power from Eternatus.
Dragon and Ghost is a lethal combo, pretty much covering everything at least neutrally. The mixed moveset also handles FurScales, while any attack clicked dents Imposter heavily. Chansey is a natural partner to improof, which also improofs Xerneas. Bounce Ho-Oh pressures opposing Xern and also provides para for Gira. Cele deals with Ho-Oh and Etern. Zama deals with no V-Create Gigas.
I did have some other ideas that I never finished, but probably not as optimal as others. I think some kind of trapper can succeed here even without Impform, which is my favorite playstyle. Anchor Shot + Encore for example can stall out of PP. Beyond that though, gen 8 BH doesn't have as many viable Pokemon as gen 7, so it's understandable that it isn't as diverse. Regigigas is definitely the strongest Pokemon in the meta right now, with Xerneas being slightly behind. With different sets that can cover pretty much different things, like Dragon Tail to force out Fur Coat Giratina or Core Enforcer users in general while also gaining free turns or just Nuzzle to spread para, Regigigas essentially always makes progress while providing utility at the same time. Xerneas is also a wallbreaker, but its role of being an offensive spinner shone more towards the end. After that, pretty much everything else revolves around those mons. The unique Imposter part also means that when crafting new sets it might be better to go with Improof first before thinking what can utilize the set well. So here I lay out some ideas that I came up with that I think is the closest to viable (that hasn't been done or common yet).
NOTE: INCOMPLETE. WILL TRY TO FINISH
| Improof | Strengths | Weaknesses | Abusers |
|---|---|---|---|
| Bulletproof | Almost no defensive utility aside from taking Sludge Bomb. | ||
| Terrain attacks | |||
| Guts | |||
| Intimidate | Deals with physical Moldy moves and ability. (Kart and Kyu-B mostly) | Way worse Fur Coat | Kart and Kyu-B, maybe NDM |
| Shadow Shield | Tough to wall | Mostly outclassed by FurScales, absence of necessary abuser | Slow, mixed attacker (However there aren't really any that fit the bill) |
| Thick Fat | Very niche, hard to see a situation where a Fire/Water improof or Fur Coat isn't better | Physical attacker with Glacial Lance and V-Create | |
| Unburden | |||
| Harvest/Recycle + Leppa | |||
| Wandering Spirit/Mummy | |||
| Unseen Fist | |||
| Anger Point | |||
| Klutz | |||
| FEAR | |||
| Marowak-A | |||
| Rocky Helmet/Other contact things | Hard to deal with opposing Rocky Helmet, unless you run Sticky Hold which is unviable. | Multihit moves with Technician | |
| Full Incense | |||
| Sticky Barb | |||
| Safety Goggles | The prevalence of Poison Heal and even a pivot makes it hard to actually utilize, no other utility | Magic Powder, Poison Powder | |
| Ring Target | |||
| Normalize Spectral Thief | |||
| Belch | |||
| Imprison | |||
| Charge moves |
Last edited:
dumping smbh teams
w1: quad plate offense
figured superskylake was gonna bring some boomer team since theyve been inactive since end of gen 7 so i brought an offense astralydia built which has the additional layer of being absolutely nothing like what i usually built at the time. and yeah it worked about as well as expected, yveltal went super hard and darkceus was able to clean up at the end
w2: Erm.. Spiked To Meet you?
i built this around 2 in the morning but i do like the idea behind it, its like debris tg ghostceus in ndbh but you have to set it manually and most ghost checks are poisonable (besides unviable loser registeel). this was intended to get through stall but onyx brought ho instead and i misplayed the venusaur hard bc somehow i thought thief would do 25 instead of 18. an unfortunate loss
w3g1: its zamazenta if you squint hard enough
i meean high atk pretty high spe, its close enough right? also the cursed mmy is there even though it didnt get used. city cooked too hard with the first team imo so i got a win pretty easily
w3g2: View attachment 673175
think i was running out of ideas at the time so i went with porting onyx's imprisonform xern. celesteela is there for like no reason idk why i added it over something that had more power or more bulk. anyway i loaded into opposing subpass and instantly lost to magma xern bc i used topsy over haze on cress
w3g3: Fuegooooooooooooo
this is too crazy to be taken seriously but you just stack fires and win in theory. psychic fangs is for the elusive TOWER OF POWER (it works i swear). had a good mu in theory but blundered the diancie vs yveltal mu bc i misjudged the set
w4: im sooooooooo gen8pilled
from the jasprose scout i saw all spinners that lose to marshadow (real and very relevant mon). but since marshadow gets outsped by ggarm and mmy i naturally added scarf regen gyarados to lure them (also a real and very relevant mon)
(spoiler alert: they used zyg once)
then i loaded a couple solids in double ph regi + xern (infestation + encore is the frankenstein of prank encore twaves zyg and that one infestation ph fini set someone like shedmiddlefinga used), + heatran and imp. game went quite well save for the part that i got jumpscared by spirit shackle ttar (real and very relevant mon). i was afraid of zyg but in both in the one test game i had with chessking and in the actual game i simply locked it down by tricking scarf onto it. Lol!
other teams i didnt use
Most Interesting Shed Team
considered this against jasprose but was unsure about the team structure cause it was pretty special weak imo. plus the marsh scarf gyara was more heater
that team
you know this team
free smbh ladder that shit was bussin
w1: quad plate offense
figured superskylake was gonna bring some boomer team since theyve been inactive since end of gen 7 so i brought an offense astralydia built which has the additional layer of being absolutely nothing like what i usually built at the time. and yeah it worked about as well as expected, yveltal went super hard and darkceus was able to clean up at the end
w2: Erm.. Spiked To Meet you?
i built this around 2 in the morning but i do like the idea behind it, its like debris tg ghostceus in ndbh but you have to set it manually and most ghost checks are poisonable (besides unviable loser registeel). this was intended to get through stall but onyx brought ho instead and i misplayed the venusaur hard bc somehow i thought thief would do 25 instead of 18. an unfortunate loss
w3g1: its zamazenta if you squint hard enough
i meean high atk pretty high spe, its close enough right? also the cursed mmy is there even though it didnt get used. city cooked too hard with the first team imo so i got a win pretty easily
w3g2: View attachment 673175
think i was running out of ideas at the time so i went with porting onyx's imprisonform xern. celesteela is there for like no reason idk why i added it over something that had more power or more bulk. anyway i loaded into opposing subpass and instantly lost to magma xern bc i used topsy over haze on cress
w3g3: Fuegooooooooooooo
this is too crazy to be taken seriously but you just stack fires and win in theory. psychic fangs is for the elusive TOWER OF POWER (it works i swear). had a good mu in theory but blundered the diancie vs yveltal mu bc i misjudged the set
w4: im sooooooooo gen8pilled
from the jasprose scout i saw all spinners that lose to marshadow (real and very relevant mon). but since marshadow gets outsped by ggarm and mmy i naturally added scarf regen gyarados to lure them (also a real and very relevant mon)
(spoiler alert: they used zyg once)
then i loaded a couple solids in double ph regi + xern (infestation + encore is the frankenstein of prank encore twaves zyg and that one infestation ph fini set someone like shedmiddlefinga used), + heatran and imp. game went quite well save for the part that i got jumpscared by spirit shackle ttar (real and very relevant mon). i was afraid of zyg but in both in the one test game i had with chessking and in the actual game i simply locked it down by tricking scarf onto it. Lol!
other teams i didnt use
Most Interesting Shed Team
considered this against jasprose but was unsure about the team structure cause it was pretty special weak imo. plus the marsh scarf gyara was more heater
that team
you know this team
free smbh ladder that shit was bussin
Teams used in HPL I:
Week 1 vs Anaconja: This team is completely worthless.
Week 2 team vs Sevag
I built this team around a core of Steelworker Kart + Technician MMX which covered a lot of the walls of the metagame. PH Ttar is a decent spinner, and Mbounce Metagross was supposed to keep the hazards off. Imposter Chansey completes the defensive core alongside Shed to act as a pivot and rocker. During the game, I did not believe in the damage potential of my Kartana on Turn 8 and clicked U-Turn when I could have clicked Sunsteel and done half to anything switching in. I still had chances all the way up to turn 20, when a crucial Gear Grind miss allowed the Xerneas to set up for free. If the Gear Grind had not missed there, the MMX would have been the only switchin and I could have continued playing from there.
Week 3 vs OnyxOnix7
I'm not super excited about this team, especially as the Soundproof Slowbro is a pretty passive mon and I hated switching into it. The MMX was totally walled out by PH Fini as well, making progress extremely slow going. I did not realize this when I had the Fini trapped by the Zygarde-C early; if I had pp stalled it out of even one of its moves, I would have had a much better chance during the game.
Week 4 vs City
Double coverage Diancie seemed like an interesting idea to catch City off guard. Alongside this I ran a standard PH Regigigas with Infestation since I wanted to be able to catch Shedinja or Zyg-C on the switch. Ho-Oh is the Diancie improof and can hit surprisingly hard with Life Orb boosted stabs. The rest of the defensive core is pretty aged-looking and passive, so it didn't function as effectively as it could have. Unfortunately for me, City decided to use a Soundproof Arceus, which is a comfortable switchin to anything Diancie wanted to do. I did have a decent chance to win the game throughout, but the first major throw was turn 42 when I blundered my Ho-Oh and got it killed for no good reason, as it was the main threat to City's team. After the Ho-Oh died, there was no Diancie improof, so I was counterswept my Imposter.
Week 5 vs Jasprose
This team felt really good to play. Triage Celesteela is improofed by Dazzling Mega Gengar and then MMY is covered by AV Zygarde-C. Prankster Xern can eat just about any single hit and threatens to Glare things, giving me free turns. The PH Ogre is more of a utility set though QD and Ice Beam lets it snipe out opposing Zyg-Cs, since they would be tough to deal with otherwise. The team functioned fairly well, though I lost my Mega Gengar early on which would have been a nice pressure source. I also could have played the endgame better, as I had a decent sac left in Pogre but decided to throw away the Xerneas instead when Jasprose had an unrevealed MMX set in the back. Glaring that would have definitely helped no matter what the set was, so that game was just a thrown one for me. Still, I felt really good about my teambuilding this time around and I'd consider bringing this kind of thing to another tour.
Playoffs vs City
This is adapted from the Triage Zard team off Loser's final gen 7 teamdump. He was running double Pranksters with both Giratina and Zyg-C, so I got rid of the Zyg and substituted it for this PH Greninja-ash. I wanted an offensive rocker that would scare out bouncers as well as spinners with the threat of at least a burn. I considered running Scald over Steam for the extra shot at burning things, but the power loss was huge. The Char-Y has the softest of Improofs in Dazzling mmy which can force it out once; the idea is to tail glow against the imposter then Oblivion Wing it, weakening it enough that it will want to Owing a second time, giving MMY a free switch to threaten it with Power Gem. Magearna is a dead stop to most Xern sets and pivots into a lot of stuff well. During the game, I got lucky early on with a critical hit on Giratina which killed it through Reflect, which City really needed to wall me since I could easily remove any hazards and City couldn't remove rocks either. In addition, Groudon could make progress by just clicking Fire Lash, and I ended the game with a Char-y sweep even though I misplayed and clicked Secret Sword, which had a 40% chance to not kill the Kyogre. The Greninja set really put in work, getting rocks up, burning the Ogre and pivoting breakers in well. A nice finish for me, even though our team didn't make finals.
Thanks to TestRex and the Groudons for believing in me, even though I had retired. I will always have a fondness for Gen 7 bh; building feels so open and free there and I think it will always be my favorite BH generation since it gained a permaladder in gen 6. I love playing Gen 7 bh and am excited to play in another tour whenever that is!
Thanks to the people who helped test my teams each week. Going in as a retired player with no gen 7 BH support was a tall order, but you guys made me more confident about my team choices.
Thanks to City for writing excellent material about advanced BH team building and prep. City's posts about active teambuilding and playing to win are must-reads for anyone trying to bring their BH building and play to the next level!
Week 1 vs Anaconja: This team is completely worthless.
Week 2 team vs Sevag
Tyranitar-Mega @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Sacred Fire
- Shift Gear
- Rapid Spin
Kartana @ Choice Band
Ability: Steelworker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Trick
Shedinja @ Protective Pads
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Endeavor
- Extreme Speed
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock
Metagross-Mega (F) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Poison Fang
- Anchor Shot
- Milk Drink
- Spikes
Chansey (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Final Gambit
- Parting Shot
- Defog
Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Frost Breath
- Storm Throw
- Gear Grind
- Strength Sap
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Sacred Fire
- Shift Gear
- Rapid Spin
Kartana @ Choice Band
Ability: Steelworker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Trick
Shedinja @ Protective Pads
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Endeavor
- Extreme Speed
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock
Metagross-Mega (F) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Poison Fang
- Anchor Shot
- Milk Drink
- Spikes
Chansey (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Final Gambit
- Parting Shot
- Defog
Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Frost Breath
- Storm Throw
- Gear Grind
- Strength Sap
Week 3 vs OnyxOnix7
Xerneas @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Moonblast
- Knock Off
- Lava Plume
Slowbro-Mega @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Scald
- Core Enforcer
- Shore Up
- Parting Shot
Dialga @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Core Enforcer
- U-turn
- Revelation Dance
- Spectral Thief
Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Icicle Plate
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Boomburst
- Extreme Speed
- Close Combat
- Rapid Spin
Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Will-O-Wisp
- Thousand Arrows
- Synthesis
Zygarde-Complete @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Haze
- Shore Up
- Thousand Waves
- Core Enforcer
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Moonblast
- Knock Off
- Lava Plume
Slowbro-Mega @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Scald
- Core Enforcer
- Shore Up
- Parting Shot
Dialga @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Core Enforcer
- U-turn
- Revelation Dance
- Spectral Thief
Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Icicle Plate
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Boomburst
- Extreme Speed
- Close Combat
- Rapid Spin
Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Will-O-Wisp
- Thousand Arrows
- Synthesis
Zygarde-Complete @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Haze
- Shore Up
- Thousand Waves
- Core Enforcer
Week 4 vs City
Diancie-Mega @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Pixilate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Boomburst
- Sacred Fire
- Precipice Blades
Ho-Oh @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Anchor Shot
- Strength Sap
Regigigas @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Facade
- Shift Gear
- Infestation
- Knock Off
Kyogre-Primal @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Revelation Dance
- Spectral Thief
- Volt Switch
- Rapid Spin
Giratina @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Core Enforcer
- Spectral Thief
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off
- Recover
- Spikes
Ability: Pixilate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Boomburst
- Sacred Fire
- Precipice Blades
Ho-Oh @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Anchor Shot
- Strength Sap
Regigigas @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Facade
- Shift Gear
- Infestation
- Knock Off
Kyogre-Primal @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Revelation Dance
- Spectral Thief
- Volt Switch
- Rapid Spin
Giratina @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Core Enforcer
- Spectral Thief
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off
- Recover
- Spikes
Week 5 vs Jasprose
Compressor (Celesteela) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Tail Glow
- Oblivion Wing
- Secret Sword
- Strength Sap
Flanger (Gengar-Mega) @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Sludge Bomb
- Spikes
- Tail Glow
Amplifier (Mewtwo-Mega-Y) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Psychic
- Blue Flare
- Sunsteel Strike
- Bolt Strike
SpectralAnalysis (Kyogre-Primal) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Quiver Dance
- Ice Beam
- Defog
Vocoder (Xerneas) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Haze
- Glare
- Moonblast
- Shore Up
Convolver (Zygarde-Complete) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Core Enforcer
- Spectral Thief
- Knock Off
- U-turn
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Tail Glow
- Oblivion Wing
- Secret Sword
- Strength Sap
Flanger (Gengar-Mega) @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Sludge Bomb
- Spikes
- Tail Glow
Amplifier (Mewtwo-Mega-Y) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Psychic
- Blue Flare
- Sunsteel Strike
- Bolt Strike
SpectralAnalysis (Kyogre-Primal) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Quiver Dance
- Ice Beam
- Defog
Vocoder (Xerneas) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Haze
- Glare
- Moonblast
- Shore Up
Convolver (Zygarde-Complete) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Core Enforcer
- Spectral Thief
- Knock Off
- U-turn
Playoffs vs City
ThePokerPlayer (Mewtwo-Mega-Y) @ Life Orb
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Photon Geyser
- Power Gem
- Secret Sword
- Strength Sap
Sunny (Charizard-Mega-Y) @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Oblivion Wing
- Lava Plume
- Secret Sword
Stars (Magearna) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spectral Thief
- Moonblast
- Rapid Spin
- U-turn
ZestyShaker (Groudon) @ Red Orb
Ability: Download
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fire Lash
- Precipice Blades
- Moonlight
- Knock Off
DeadmanSwitch (Giratina) @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Parting Shot
- Core Enforcer
- Haze
- Shore Up
WetFeet (Greninja-Ash) (M) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Steam Eruption
- Icicle Spear
- Volt Switch
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Photon Geyser
- Power Gem
- Secret Sword
- Strength Sap
Sunny (Charizard-Mega-Y) @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Oblivion Wing
- Lava Plume
- Secret Sword
Stars (Magearna) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spectral Thief
- Moonblast
- Rapid Spin
- U-turn
ZestyShaker (Groudon) @ Red Orb
Ability: Download
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fire Lash
- Precipice Blades
- Moonlight
- Knock Off
DeadmanSwitch (Giratina) @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Parting Shot
- Core Enforcer
- Haze
- Shore Up
WetFeet (Greninja-Ash) (M) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Steam Eruption
- Icicle Spear
- Volt Switch
Thanks to TestRex and the Groudons for believing in me, even though I had retired. I will always have a fondness for Gen 7 bh; building feels so open and free there and I think it will always be my favorite BH generation since it gained a permaladder in gen 6. I love playing Gen 7 bh and am excited to play in another tour whenever that is!
Thanks to the people who helped test my teams each week. Going in as a retired player with no gen 7 BH support was a tall order, but you guys made me more confident about my team choices.
Thanks to City for writing excellent material about advanced BH team building and prep. City's posts about active teambuilding and playing to win are must-reads for anyone trying to bring their BH building and play to the next level!
so i had what can only really be described as a pretty shit season. just dumping the teams here; i think most are solid enough.
week 1 vs quojova -
knew going into this that quojova would be bringing some defensive balance team, which maw etern can throttle insanely hard given no spdef zamac, and i didn't think i'd be running into something like mixed plate xern so a regenvest to check xern would probably suffice. the gigas was essentially just a last-minute tack-on, as it fit the bill of a regenvest without being overly weak to anything and still manages to pressure direct damage. retrospectively this folds almost on the spot to sap ph xern but i didn't expect a bring for that. ended up running into a spectrier in the game, putting gigas on full display, and it also lacked a fighting move to boot (not that fight move is used anyway).
week 2 vs andyboy -
this was originally a barraskewda team (explaining my discontent with how unfair the matchup would've been), but i opted to swap to a triage wincon last minute. the knock bait on xern, combined with rocks on etern, is just about enough for steela to completely bypass non-scales ho-oh and helps out against neutral regenvests that can threaten to nuzzle steela; this isn't by itself enough to beat something like a kyogre, or in this case, even just a standard lunala, however. this manifested in-game as me never really being able to damage it, compounded by some wrong predicts against imp etern.
week 3 vs hayedenn -
nuzzle palkia setup, and with sd v-create gigas can kill basically everything. scales was originally an etern but was changed off due to losing instantly to snr lunala, and fc ferro was originally prank fini. fc matchup was unfortunate in-game and i tilted after being min-max rolled by low kick that probably would've won me the game had it not happened. this was originally a no guard structure that would've done major work here but ended up dropping it and shifting idea to week 5.
week 4 vs jqlove -
scout from jqlove had revealed a clunky defensive core with mono-scales, which led on to nuzzle xern + mixed guy to handle ho-oh. originally it was a double boomburst structure with support xern and plot ray, but changed it mostly due to paranoia about soundproof leaving zero progress makers. reshiram was onyx's idea and was intended to kill off any ho-oh and harass fire-immune steels with paralysis and volt tackle damage. the spdef being soundproof + steel-type is generally fine into most non-specs stuff, but the spectrier matchup is abhorrent and zygarde being relaxed rather than sassy probably made the difference (although by this point in the game, and with a timid topsy qd ph xern (???) in the back, there's not really any odds of winning anyway).
week 5 vs MAMP -
unlike the other weeks, no guard was the first choice, and i wanted a special core that didn't rely heavily on fire move etern. no guard sees very limited use in gen 8 mostly due to regenvests that do nothing other than eat zap cannon and para you, but on this team, life orb aims to bolster its damage to the point that only imp would really want to switch in, which paves the way for simple etern in the back. recover xern was picked because i knew the chances of a bouncer were fairly high and imp not so high. the game didn't go to plan, with an instant crit on steela into fullpara (i clicked topsy) forcing me to lose it early on, and there's wasn't really anything on his side that etern could set up on while maintaining lum (as dialga definitely had it and ferrothorn wouldn't have too bad a chance); in hindsight i would've probably needed to preserve lum and then fish for full paras on ferrothorn to force it out while keeping the boosts, which would've given me at least 3 kills and a heavily wounded dialga.
playoffs vs jqlove -
this team mostly went off of the idea of last time (exploit clunky defensive options). ray + nihilego is something i'd used before due to the difficulties with improofing ray without soundproof, though regenvest nihil was used over sand stream here due to the main ray target being scales zama; regen nihil + scales zama also provides a secure special backbone for basically everything bar rend/v-c xern. toxic on zamac was an attempt to make it not dead weight against the fur coat dragons that were brought in the two replays i had, though this'd end up biting me in the ass catastrophically. the matchup is a mixed bag, with ray not soloing by itself but there also being seemingly no removal (with the only place being spin dialga, which wasn't improofed), but nihilego instantly getting crit leaves me without spectral and no tkick on zamac (which it originally was) means i can't just bruise steela down late-game and clean with xern.
overall, not happy with my performance. tough to say how much of it leans on misfortune (ie. benching "the solution" and bring something with a much worse matchup), but that's just the way this game goes simetimes.
week 1 vs quojova -
knew going into this that quojova would be bringing some defensive balance team, which maw etern can throttle insanely hard given no spdef zamac, and i didn't think i'd be running into something like mixed plate xern so a regenvest to check xern would probably suffice. the gigas was essentially just a last-minute tack-on, as it fit the bill of a regenvest without being overly weak to anything and still manages to pressure direct damage. retrospectively this folds almost on the spot to sap ph xern but i didn't expect a bring for that. ended up running into a spectrier in the game, putting gigas on full display, and it also lacked a fighting move to boot (not that fight move is used anyway).
week 2 vs andyboy -
this was originally a barraskewda team (explaining my discontent with how unfair the matchup would've been), but i opted to swap to a triage wincon last minute. the knock bait on xern, combined with rocks on etern, is just about enough for steela to completely bypass non-scales ho-oh and helps out against neutral regenvests that can threaten to nuzzle steela; this isn't by itself enough to beat something like a kyogre, or in this case, even just a standard lunala, however. this manifested in-game as me never really being able to damage it, compounded by some wrong predicts against imp etern.
week 3 vs hayedenn -
nuzzle palkia setup, and with sd v-create gigas can kill basically everything. scales was originally an etern but was changed off due to losing instantly to snr lunala, and fc ferro was originally prank fini. fc matchup was unfortunate in-game and i tilted after being min-max rolled by low kick that probably would've won me the game had it not happened. this was originally a no guard structure that would've done major work here but ended up dropping it and shifting idea to week 5.
week 4 vs jqlove -
scout from jqlove had revealed a clunky defensive core with mono-scales, which led on to nuzzle xern + mixed guy to handle ho-oh. originally it was a double boomburst structure with support xern and plot ray, but changed it mostly due to paranoia about soundproof leaving zero progress makers. reshiram was onyx's idea and was intended to kill off any ho-oh and harass fire-immune steels with paralysis and volt tackle damage. the spdef being soundproof + steel-type is generally fine into most non-specs stuff, but the spectrier matchup is abhorrent and zygarde being relaxed rather than sassy probably made the difference (although by this point in the game, and with a timid topsy qd ph xern (???) in the back, there's not really any odds of winning anyway).
week 5 vs MAMP -
unlike the other weeks, no guard was the first choice, and i wanted a special core that didn't rely heavily on fire move etern. no guard sees very limited use in gen 8 mostly due to regenvests that do nothing other than eat zap cannon and para you, but on this team, life orb aims to bolster its damage to the point that only imp would really want to switch in, which paves the way for simple etern in the back. recover xern was picked because i knew the chances of a bouncer were fairly high and imp not so high. the game didn't go to plan, with an instant crit on steela into fullpara (i clicked topsy) forcing me to lose it early on, and there's wasn't really anything on his side that etern could set up on while maintaining lum (as dialga definitely had it and ferrothorn wouldn't have too bad a chance); in hindsight i would've probably needed to preserve lum and then fish for full paras on ferrothorn to force it out while keeping the boosts, which would've given me at least 3 kills and a heavily wounded dialga.
playoffs vs jqlove -
this team mostly went off of the idea of last time (exploit clunky defensive options). ray + nihilego is something i'd used before due to the difficulties with improofing ray without soundproof, though regenvest nihil was used over sand stream here due to the main ray target being scales zama; regen nihil + scales zama also provides a secure special backbone for basically everything bar rend/v-c xern. toxic on zamac was an attempt to make it not dead weight against the fur coat dragons that were brought in the two replays i had, though this'd end up biting me in the ass catastrophically. the matchup is a mixed bag, with ray not soloing by itself but there also being seemingly no removal (with the only place being spin dialga, which wasn't improofed), but nihilego instantly getting crit leaves me without spectral and no tkick on zamac (which it originally was) means i can't just bruise steela down late-game and clean with xern.
overall, not happy with my performance. tough to say how much of it leans on misfortune (ie. benching "the solution" and bring something with a much worse matchup), but that's just the way this game goes simetimes.
Last edited:
Now that PHPL is over, I think we can use what we learned to make some reasonable changes to gen 4 BH to make it balanced. Obviously, you can’t make a direct comparison, but many of the strategies are unharmed.
Wonder Guard is neither broken nor over-centralizing and should not be banned. More importantly, it slows down the pace of the metagame and complicates game states by checking all of the broken offensive sweepers in an imposter less metagame. There’s no good reason for it to be banned when clear counterplay exists through taunt, hazards, status, coverage, and mold breaker while also being extremely beneficial for a tier with almost no defensive options. Weather clause can be removed if you follow through with Wonder Guard unban. I think there seems to be some outdated philosophy that Wonder Guard is always broken. This is just not the case.
Baton pass needs to be banned. Taunt + Speed passing lacks counterplay in DPP and you can easily win games with little to no effort with mold breaker sweepers.
Ability clause can be removed. Not even sure why this is here. A symptom of no defensive options I suppose, but it’s really not impactful.
I think while sleep clause is probably not mandatory, it is a good idea to have just to prevent sweepers from snowballing, especially when there is barely any counterplay for spore and most of it gets shut down by taunt anyway.
EDIT:
I think if possible, this would be a meta that would be better developed if everything started unbanned including what’s conventionally seen as too much like ohko, evasion, trapping, huge power, sleep, bp, and wonder guard. Theory based bans are fine obviously, but some of these bans seem unnecessary or just grandfathered from later gens.
Wonder Guard is neither broken nor over-centralizing and should not be banned. More importantly, it slows down the pace of the metagame and complicates game states by checking all of the broken offensive sweepers in an imposter less metagame. There’s no good reason for it to be banned when clear counterplay exists through taunt, hazards, status, coverage, and mold breaker while also being extremely beneficial for a tier with almost no defensive options. Weather clause can be removed if you follow through with Wonder Guard unban. I think there seems to be some outdated philosophy that Wonder Guard is always broken. This is just not the case.
Baton pass needs to be banned. Taunt + Speed passing lacks counterplay in DPP and you can easily win games with little to no effort with mold breaker sweepers.
Ability clause can be removed. Not even sure why this is here. A symptom of no defensive options I suppose, but it’s really not impactful.
I think while sleep clause is probably not mandatory, it is a good idea to have just to prevent sweepers from snowballing, especially when there is barely any counterplay for spore and most of it gets shut down by taunt anyway.
EDIT:
I think if possible, this would be a meta that would be better developed if everything started unbanned including what’s conventionally seen as too much like ohko, evasion, trapping, huge power, sleep, bp, and wonder guard. Theory based bans are fine obviously, but some of these bans seem unnecessary or just grandfathered from later gens.
Last edited:
Week 3 vs Ineros - TG Speed Boost Gar - L
After watching some games I noticed people were straight up bringing teams with minimal Gengar counterplay (not like it had much) and so TG Speed Boost Gar looked promising with Fleur being semi-improof still while smacking Zygarde and AV Yveltal. Tyranitar seemed like a decent partner checking stuff like Triage and Pursuit being a super useful move for opposing Gar and MMYs, originally had flexible pre-mega ability slot since I wanted Sand Stream anyways but after being pointed out team loses to Goggles Shed I had to resort to Moldy since I didn't want to stack Ghosts while my existing Ghost can't touch Shed. Lucky Punch Imposter is something else I wanted this week due to opponent being less familiar and can be caught off guard. I like Bounce Dialga as a set and it soft checks Xern, checks Regi, soft checks Triage, and is a Bounce. Zyg is Zyg and is the obligatory PH. Soundproof Xern rounds off team checking -ates like Diancie and mixed MMX while also providing removal.
Turns out trying to fish for the Gar instant win isn't very good, though other stuff also went wrong like making Xern Relaxed for MMX matchup (otherwise would've outsped and killed Dialga) and some unfortunate RNG.
Week 5 vs rightclicker (originally jasprose) - Specs Diancie - W
After looking at jasprose scouts I originally wanted to consider something like Double Dance PH Kyogre with maybe Band TTar to trap and weaken walls but that still duds insanely hard if I run into like AV Kyogre/Dialga since Pursuit isn't killing from full. Instead Specs Diancie is simple and effective it seems and also provides some speed control. PH Kyogre is a natural PH fit here with Xern stacking types, while it also provides good general utility against stuff like Ho-Oh, Knocking AVs from opposing Kyogre, and setting Rocks. Giratina is the Ghost of choice and Prank allows it to check the physical nuisances, originally I had U-turn due to dire lack of good pivoting but QT convinced me to go Encore to provide actual counterplay to setup stuff. Arceus improofs Diancie, checks opposing Diancie, and is a Ghost immunity against Specs Gar. Lastly Ho-Oh is a Xern check and gets removal. Eviolite here because I really need to buffer against MMY.
rightclicker ended up subbing in last second and I didn't build a new team. Still worked out fine against his more offensive leaning builds with Diancie providing speed control and kills, Prank Tina being good, Kyogre being really good, and Arceus denying all momentum from Yveltal.
Tier seems fair for the most part, getting rid of the nasty cheese options opens up some more flexibility in defensive cores and notably Prankster is still great considering Haze is basically able to be forgone with the most common Dark-type setup being Triage anyways, so it gets to fit all these utility moves like Encore Sap Wisp Entrain even. Among the remaining stuff the most standout are:
- Shed, despite "Jaboca" and losing Baton Pass on non-Pads sets this still feels really restraining on the teambuilder. If not using Moldy Pursuit (highly specific since Moldy as an ability is like only particularly good when paired with hazards which means you have one free moveslot) you always need a Ghost, which is basically only 4 non-niche options (Gengar Giratina Arceus Aegislash), and then only specific sets of these can actually threaten Shed back. Hazards itself isn't reliable enough either unless its like Moldy hazards into good matchup vs removal since they will always have Bounce + >=1 removal. Weather obviously unreliable when Goggles is a fine set clicking Pain Split and also generally dodging Jaboca techs too (which is also super specific counterplay like if we have to run this one-time use item to deal with something doesn't sound very healthy.
- Tail Glow. Can definitely feel pretty dumb considering no Scales, Unaware being awful, and the general power level of special attackers. Most notable abusers are Gengar and Triage users, the latter of which feels rather limiting in answers due to powerful +3 coverage shredding would-be checks (e.g. Sword/Giga against TTar/Kyogre, Sword against Dialga, Giga against Diancie) and health gain against stuff like Zygod.
- MMY also feels obnoxious when realistically the only splashable check that doesn't feel awful is Evio Imp and you don't have the luxury of having the Zac-C in the back for speed control so its very often the fastest mon in the game. I don't think people are ready for this one though.
After watching some games I noticed people were straight up bringing teams with minimal Gengar counterplay (not like it had much) and so TG Speed Boost Gar looked promising with Fleur being semi-improof still while smacking Zygarde and AV Yveltal. Tyranitar seemed like a decent partner checking stuff like Triage and Pursuit being a super useful move for opposing Gar and MMYs, originally had flexible pre-mega ability slot since I wanted Sand Stream anyways but after being pointed out team loses to Goggles Shed I had to resort to Moldy since I didn't want to stack Ghosts while my existing Ghost can't touch Shed. Lucky Punch Imposter is something else I wanted this week due to opponent being less familiar and can be caught off guard. I like Bounce Dialga as a set and it soft checks Xern, checks Regi, soft checks Triage, and is a Bounce. Zyg is Zyg and is the obligatory PH. Soundproof Xern rounds off team checking -ates like Diancie and mixed MMX while also providing removal.
Turns out trying to fish for the Gar instant win isn't very good, though other stuff also went wrong like making Xern Relaxed for MMX matchup (otherwise would've outsped and killed Dialga) and some unfortunate RNG.
Week 5 vs rightclicker (originally jasprose) - Specs Diancie - W
After looking at jasprose scouts I originally wanted to consider something like Double Dance PH Kyogre with maybe Band TTar to trap and weaken walls but that still duds insanely hard if I run into like AV Kyogre/Dialga since Pursuit isn't killing from full. Instead Specs Diancie is simple and effective it seems and also provides some speed control. PH Kyogre is a natural PH fit here with Xern stacking types, while it also provides good general utility against stuff like Ho-Oh, Knocking AVs from opposing Kyogre, and setting Rocks. Giratina is the Ghost of choice and Prank allows it to check the physical nuisances, originally I had U-turn due to dire lack of good pivoting but QT convinced me to go Encore to provide actual counterplay to setup stuff. Arceus improofs Diancie, checks opposing Diancie, and is a Ghost immunity against Specs Gar. Lastly Ho-Oh is a Xern check and gets removal. Eviolite here because I really need to buffer against MMY.
rightclicker ended up subbing in last second and I didn't build a new team. Still worked out fine against his more offensive leaning builds with Diancie providing speed control and kills, Prank Tina being good, Kyogre being really good, and Arceus denying all momentum from Yveltal.
Tier seems fair for the most part, getting rid of the nasty cheese options opens up some more flexibility in defensive cores and notably Prankster is still great considering Haze is basically able to be forgone with the most common Dark-type setup being Triage anyways, so it gets to fit all these utility moves like Encore Sap Wisp Entrain even. Among the remaining stuff the most standout are:
- Shed, despite "Jaboca" and losing Baton Pass on non-Pads sets this still feels really restraining on the teambuilder. If not using Moldy Pursuit (highly specific since Moldy as an ability is like only particularly good when paired with hazards which means you have one free moveslot) you always need a Ghost, which is basically only 4 non-niche options (Gengar Giratina Arceus Aegislash), and then only specific sets of these can actually threaten Shed back. Hazards itself isn't reliable enough either unless its like Moldy hazards into good matchup vs removal since they will always have Bounce + >=1 removal. Weather obviously unreliable when Goggles is a fine set clicking Pain Split and also generally dodging Jaboca techs too (which is also super specific counterplay like if we have to run this one-time use item to deal with something doesn't sound very healthy.
- Tail Glow. Can definitely feel pretty dumb considering no Scales, Unaware being awful, and the general power level of special attackers. Most notable abusers are Gengar and Triage users, the latter of which feels rather limiting in answers due to powerful +3 coverage shredding would-be checks (e.g. Sword/Giga against TTar/Kyogre, Sword against Dialga, Giga against Diancie) and health gain against stuff like Zygod.
- MMY also feels obnoxious when realistically the only splashable check that doesn't feel awful is Evio Imp and you don't have the luxury of having the Zac-C in the back for speed control so its very often the fastest mon in the game. I don't think people are ready for this one though.